Volkl Cyclone 17 vs 18

T

tenniskit

New User
Hi,

My kid is 10-year old boy (all court player) and playing competitive tennis. He was previously using Luxilon Alu power at the mains with standard synthetic gut at the cross. I am planning to switch him to full poly and found Volkl Cyclone to be pretty suitable. I have strung Cyclone 17g and 18g on both his racquets (both are Aeropro Drive Lite). And he has feedback that he could not tell the difference between the 2 strings. I would like to get some advice/opinion on which gauge (17 or 18) is more suitable for him.

Also, I have read reviews that Cyclone lasts not that long (less durable). However, there are also folks out there who mentioned that in fact, Cyclone is durable for a poly string, as compared to other polys. Would appreciate some advice.

Also, if you have any string recommendations for competitive kids, would be appreciate it as well.

Thanks in advance!
 
CopolyX

CopolyX

Hall of Fame
full copolyx is a waste for him at 10 I would be seriously protecting his arms and keep him in a hybrid. but he is your son.
 
S

Steven Nguyen

New User
At 10 I would still stick him onto a lower powered syn gut or multi unless he's breaking strings. If so I would go a soft poly in the mains as opposed to alu power which is quite stiff and a softer syn gut cross. Full poly at 10 could lead to arm issues easily

Sent from my SM-N915T using Tapatalk
 
v-verb

v-verb

Hall of Fame
Ashaway MonoGut ZX Pro is a nice soft cross that allows the poly mains to move so spin should be good and comfort is excellent. Full poly is just too harsh iMO
 
T

tenniskit

New User
CopolyX said:
full copolyx is a waste for him at 10 I would be seriously protecting his arms and keep him in a hybrid. but he is your son.
Click to expand...

Hi CopolyX, thanks for your advice. Yes, I would like to protect his arms too.

May I know what you mean when you mentioned 'a waste for him'. Is it the cost of poly string vs other strings?
 
T

tenniskit

New User
Steven Nguyen said:
At 10 I would still stick him onto a lower powered syn gut or multi unless he's breaking strings. If so I would go a soft poly in the mains as opposed to alu power which is quite stiff and a softer syn gut cross. Full poly at 10 could lead to arm issues easily

Sent from my SM-N915T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Thanks, Steven.

He does not break strings. Lower powered synthetic gut would be good. Any recommendations on synthetic gut?

Multi has fraying. And more ex, i think.

Yes, agree that Alu is stiff.
 
T

tenniskit

New User
v-verb said:
Ashaway MonoGut ZX Pro is a nice soft cross that allows the poly mains to move so spin should be good and comfort is excellent. Full poly is just too harsh iMO
Click to expand...
Hi v-verb,

Thanks for the Ashaway recommendation. Did a quick look and it looks interesting. Will check it out more.
 
J

JustTennis76

Hall of Fame
Stick with Cyclone 18 and like others suggested, use something soft in the crosses to soften the string bed. Full bed of cyclone for a 10 year old seems too hard. I have been experimenting different multis in the crosses lately. I like Babolat addiction and Prince premier control.
 
S

Steven Nguyen

New User
tenniskit said:
Thanks, Steven.

He does not break strings. Lower powered synthetic gut would be good. Any recommendations on synthetic gut?

Multi has fraying. And more ex, i think.

Yes, agree that Alu is stiff.
Click to expand...
OG Sheep micro in the 16g should suffice as for multis head fxp works great as well

Sent from my SM-N915T using Tapatalk
 
R

ricardo

Hall of Fame
tenniskit said:
Hi CopolyX, thanks for your advice. Yes, I would like to protect his arms too.

May I know what you mean when you mentioned 'a waste for him'. Is it the cost of poly string vs other strings?
Click to expand...

I use poly for the following reasons:
  1. Durability
    If you break non-poly strings under 10 hours, you should consider using poly.
  2. Spin potential
    If you want more spin and you have the required RHS and spin generating technique, then poly will give you a little bit more spin compared to non-poly.
  3. Control
    If you hit really hard and the ball goes long even with topspin, then you may need poly to tame the power. Polys in general are less powerful than non-poly strings.
If you don't have any of the above needs, then poly may not be the optimal string for you.
 
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P

PittsburghDad

Guest
Look, I have no idea how your kid hits, so any advice is with that in mind. I have a nine year old that destroys kids 5-6 years older. On a different level completely. And I'm not living in a bubble. We have plenty of coaches and rackets reps hanging around to know its special. That's not to brag, its only to tell you that a lot of people are going to come at you with "the kid doesn't need poly." There is absolutely no way to know that without seeing your kid hit. Some kids absolutely can use poly to great benefit. We have tried many setups. Syn gut is total garbage and feels like it to a decent player. Even I, (not nearly her level), can tell how garbage it is. That's why it its 4 bucks a set. It has a place in the market, but a talented junior ain't it. Multi on the high end of the stuff can be decent. But to a hard hitting, big heavy spin kid, it can fly on them. Some kids like it though. Natural gut by itself is really nice but not for a kid spinning the ball. I play and feed her with full gut but only because it lasts forever, (for me, not her), and feels great. Again, kids hitting hard playing heavy spin cant get the control they want. Poly/gut, gut/poly is a solid option as long as you're cool with the cost and the kid likes it better. It really is a nice setup. Full poly above 55 or so is a waste IMHO. May as well be gut/poly or multi. Now, low tensioned poly, (my daughters is at 44/44), is great. For her. Your mileage may vary. Half of her setup is Volkl Cyclone 17. Crosses. Mains are WC B5E. That was after a ton of playing around. Buy a stringer. You'll be able to tell what they like and get feedback through both performance and listening to them. If you know their game inside and out.

It sounds oxymoronish to say this after that, but don't overthink it. If you've narrowed it to poly, GREAT! If you've narrowed to Cyclone, GREAT! 17 or 18 will be strictly preference. You're going to be changing that full poly every 6-8 hitting hours regardless. At the least. Durability wont really be an issue. If the kid hits hard that stuff goes dead fast. Usually before it breaks regardless of gauge. Tough to describe but after a while you can almost see the moment it goes past playable. Loss of control, even sounds a bit different. She rarely gets past 6 hours. And don't let anybody who hasn't looked at the string issues in a decade and has never seen your kid hit steer you away from a setup. They may have never SEEN a kid like yours before and have no idea how wrong they are about poly. And you tend to find a lot of half cup of knowledge folk hanging around. Courts and message boards. Have fun and good luck!
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
Poly/multi is like a salami and peanut butter sandwich. Its that bad.. Be wary as well whenever you hear, "soften the stringbed with softer crosses." And you'll hear it a lot. Its one of those things people say to sound like they know what they are saying. Its not real though.
 
M

monomer

Rookie
Cyclone Tour 18 is also worth a try. Great feel, and it is softer and a bit more powerful than regular Cyclone.
 
T

tenniskit

New User
PittsburghDad said:
Look, I have no idea how your kid hits, so any advice is with that in mind. I have a nine year old that destroys kids 5-6 years older. On a different level completely. And I'm not living in a bubble. We have plenty of coaches and rackets reps hanging around to know its special. That's not to brag, its only to tell you that a lot of people are going to come at you with "the kid doesn't need poly." There is absolutely no way to know that without seeing your kid hit. Some kids absolutely can use poly to great benefit. We have tried many setups. Syn gut is total garbage and feels like it to a decent player. Even I, (not nearly her level), can tell how garbage it is. That's why it its 4 bucks a set. It has a place in the market, but a talented junior ain't it. Multi on the high end of the stuff can be decent. But to a hard hitting, big heavy spin kid, it can fly on them. Some kids like it though. Natural gut by itself is really nice but not for a kid spinning the ball. I play and feed her with full gut but only because it lasts forever, (for me, not her), and feels great. Again, kids hitting hard playing heavy spin cant get the control they want. Poly/gut, gut/poly is a solid option as long as you're cool with the cost and the kid likes it better. It really is a nice setup. Full poly above 55 or so is a waste IMHO. May as well be gut/poly or multi. Now, low tensioned poly, (my daughters is at 44/44), is great. For her. Your mileage may vary. Half of her setup is Volkl Cyclone 17. Crosses. Mains are WC B5E. That was after a ton of playing around. Buy a stringer. You'll be able to tell what they like and get feedback through both performance and listening to them. If you know their game inside and out.

It sounds oxymoronish to say this after that, but don't overthink it. If you've narrowed it to poly, GREAT! If you've narrowed to Cyclone, GREAT! 17 or 18 will be strictly preference. You're going to be changing that full poly every 6-8 hitting hours regardless. At the least. Durability wont really be an issue. If the kid hits hard that stuff goes dead fast. Usually before it breaks regardless of gauge. Tough to describe but after a while you can almost see the moment it goes past playable. Loss of control, even sounds a bit different. She rarely gets past 6 hours. And don't let anybody who hasn't looked at the string issues in a decade and has never seen your kid hit steer you away from a setup. They may have never SEEN a kid like yours before and have no idea how wrong they are about poly. And you tend to find a lot of half cup of knowledge folk hanging around. Courts and message boards. Have fun and good luck!
Click to expand...

Hi PittsburghDad,

Thanks for sharing your honest thoughts and experience. Really appreciate it. And congrats on nine year old, you must be really proud of her.

My 10-year old is on full Cyclone at 47/45. We are moving him to the next age group (yellow balls), so taking the opportunity to change his setup...
 
T

tenniskit

New User
PittsburghDad said:
Poly/multi is like a salami and peanut butter sandwich. Its that bad.. Be wary as well whenever you hear, "soften the stringbed with softer crosses." And you'll hear it a lot. Its one of those things people say to sound like they know what they are saying. Its not real though.
Click to expand...

Lol. That's a good analogy.
 
F

FuzzyYellowBalls41

Guest
I'd vote for the Volkl Cyclone Tour line of strings. Whether it's 16, 17 or 18 gauge. I've got 16 in mine and it's plenty arm friendly, durable since it's 1.30mm thick and plenty of spin.
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
tenniskit said:
Hi PittsburghDad,

Thanks for sharing your honest thoughts and experience. Really appreciate it. And congrats on nine year old, you must be really proud of her.

My 10-year old is on full Cyclone at 47/45. We are moving him to the next age group (yellow balls), so taking the opportunity to change his setup...
Click to expand...

What in the setup do you want to change? YB will be an adjustment. Fun one though.
 
Karma Tennis

Karma Tennis

Legend
tenniskit said:
Hi,
I am planning to switch him to full poly and found Volkl Cyclone to be pretty suitable. I have strung Cyclone 17g and 18g on both his racquets (both are Aeropro Drive Lite). And he has feedback that he could not tell the difference between the 2 strings. I would like to get some advice/opinion on which gauge (17 or 18) is more suitable for him.
!
Click to expand...

@tenniskit, I have a lot of experience with the Babolat APD / Volkl Cyclone combo and have also observed many junior players using this combo.

Personally, I'm unlikely to encourage such a solution for 10yo, even a talented one. However if there is a real compulsion to use it, then suggest you stick with the lightest gauge and re-string frequently. Also consider customising the APD Lite to add a little bit extra weight to the handle so that impact and vibration shock transfer is minimised. These things will offer the maximum protection to your child's arm and shoulder.

Most importantly, constantly monitor your child's arm health and do it with a passion.

I've seen both sides of the coin. Gifted, "successful" 10 and 11 yo's moving to full Poly and ending up with tennis related arm (mainly elbow and wrist) injuries within 18 to 24 months of intense training and play. Of course, the odd one has cruised through with no problems. Interestingly, the number of similar players using hybrids or no poly at all seem to feature a lot less in the arm injury stakes up till the time they are in their mid-teens with little or no delay to their development and competitiveness.

Ultimately, the final decision on rests with the parent. For me, the opinions of qualified sports medicine practitioners is far more valuable than that of tennis coaches and racquet reps. Also, I would trust the opinion of a seasoned qualified Racquet Technician before any tennis coach or racquet rep. in these matters.

The best tennis coaches are experts at teaching people how to hit the ball, they are not experts regarding what to hit the ball with and why.
 
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P

PittsburghDad

Guest
Still ZERO actual evidence regarding fresh, poly causing injuries with proper technique. This is seriously the softest, most hand wringing sport ever. At least as played by 99% of ya'll.
 
Rabbit

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
FuzzyYellowBalls41 said:
I'd vote for the Volkl Cyclone Tour line of strings. Whether it's 16, 17 or 18 gauge. I've got 16 in mine and it's plenty arm friendly, durable since it's 1.30mm thick and plenty of spin.
Click to expand...

Even softer is Volkl V-Star and TW has/had it on sale. Me personally, if he doesn't break string I'd have him try Gosen OG Sheep 17 to start. If he doesn't like that and has to have poly, go ahead, but make sure you keep a close eye on his arm. Like another poster said, kids are all different and he may be fine, but there was a guy I string for who insisted on his 11-year old daughter using the same poly he did. I protested every time, but he kept on. It hurt her arm. Thankfully at 11, they rebound virtually overnight, but just know the potential exists.
 
F

fngmoe

New User
Not sure you'll be getting any benefits by going full poly now, when he's just getting started on yellow ball. If he was playing national 14s, maybe, but my guess is that he's not generating enough racket head speed to make it worth while. If you're dead set on going full poly, at least there are some softer selections available... like v-star in 17/18g.

For reference, I've got a heavy/hard hitting 11 y/o who trains with the 16s and plays higher level regional 14s or national 12s. She trains around 15 hours/wk. She uses a softer syn gut (17g Tourna Syn Gut Armor) in the crosses with a shaped poly main. I suspect that something like Forten Sweet would work pretty well, but the tourna's got a really slick coating that keeps things moving pretty well. No complaints of arm pain. She usually snaps the poly mains in 8-10 hours. Poly/multi hybrids were done within 3 hours. I'm not seeing our use of syn gut crosses holding her back.
 
CopolyX

CopolyX

Hall of Fame
Karma Tennis said:
@tenniskit, I have a lot of experience with the Babolat APD / Volkl Cyclone combo and have also observed many junior players using this combo.

Personally, I'm unlikely to encourage such a solution for 10yo, even a talented one. However if there is a real compulsion to use it, then suggest you stick with the lightest gauge and re-string frequently. Also consider customising the APD Lite to add a little bit extra weight to the handle so that impact and vibration shock transfer is minimised. These things will offer the maximum protection to your child's arm and shoulder.

Most importantly, constantly monitor your child's arm health and do it with a passion.

I've seen both sides of the coin. Gifted, "successful" 10 and 11 yo's moving to full Poly and ending up with tennis related arm (mainly elbow and wrist) injuries within 18 to 24 months of intense training and play. Of course, the odd one has cruised through with no problems. Interestingly, the number of similar players using hybrids or no poly at all seem to feature a lot less in the arm injury stakes up till the time they are in their mid-teens with little or no delay to their development and competitiveness.

Ultimately, the final decision on rests with the parent. For me, the opinions of qualified sports medicine practitioners is far more valuable than that of tennis coaches and racquet reps. Also, I would trust the opinion of a seasoned qualified Racquet Technician before any tennis coach or racquet rep. in these matters.

The best tennis coaches are experts at teaching people how to hit the ball, they are not experts regarding what to hit the ball with and why.
Click to expand...
Yep...see in my thread Roman Prokes...click a watch...

I am also a researcher for t. strings, so I try to gather as much data, info, tests, opinions, experience as possible. That helps me a make a decision, right or wrong. We learn...Knowledge, Experience,Logic and Sharing can be key.
Sure, their a lot of areas that studies and research are just not their yet and most likely never will. But patterns, numbers and logic can be...
I have a family of six full time, year round (in NH) in tennis, not one of us have been down for the count. Good equipment, well maintained equipment, rest and more around that also. Physically, mentally, lessons,and yep you are getting it..a lot than just strings. But every element can be a contributing factor. So I am not preaching, just sharing info....family is everything....
 
Karma Tennis

Karma Tennis

Legend
PittsburghDad said:
Still ZERO actual evidence regarding fresh, poly causing injuries with proper technique.
Click to expand...

Plenty of anecdotal and experiential evidence. Much rather trust my own eyes, ears and experiences rather than a bunch of "white coats" sitting in a lab somewhere.

IMO, a young junior player that is a clean hitter with proper stroke technique and regular access to fresh string doesn't gain any significant competitive advantage by using full beds of Poly string.

Of course, others have a different views and that's fine. But I think the whole junior tennis development thing is a marathon rather than a sprint.
 
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T

tenniskit

New User
Karma Tennis said:
@tenniskit

Personally, I'm unlikely to encourage such a solution for 10yo, even a talented one. However if there is a real compulsion to use it, then suggest you stick with the lightest gauge and re-string frequently. Also consider customising the APD Lite to add a little bit extra weight to the handle so that impact and vibration shock transfer is minimised. These things will offer the maximum protection to your child's arm and shoulder.

Most importantly, constantly monitor your child's arm health and do it with a passion.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your advice. I totally understand where you are coming from.
 
T

tenniskit

New User
CopolyX said:
I have a family of six full time, year round (in NH) in tennis, not one of us have been down for the count. Good equipment, well maintained equipment, rest and more around that also. Physically, mentally, lessons,and yep you are getting it..a lot than just strings. But every element can be a contributing factor. So I am not preaching, just sharing info....family is everything....
Click to expand...

Thanks for your sharing, CopolyX. Appreciate it.
 
CopolyX

CopolyX

Hall of Fame
Hey no problem, that is way we all are here. Share and help...
But also the other area so forgotten in tennis development is pure mental. So many other dimensions but lets highlight that...
As a young one in a competitive tennis environment that even gets more complex and even more important ( to you/family and the child).
Just a little touch on that here:
http://www.tennismindgame.com/mental-tennis.html
Out there of info, I bet there is whole lot more on that specifically related to our growing wonders diving into tennis land...
 
T

tenniskit

New User
I am keeping my options open, and trying to learn as much as possible from you guys.

When the regular stringer that we went to, advice about using poly/syn gut setup around 2 years ago, we followed. My kid was using a softer poly/syn gut and later on, we changed to Alu Power/syn gut and my 10yo liked it. However, I find that Alu is harsh, and it is also said the same by most of the folks out there and some of you guys. Since he is switching to yellow ball beginning of this year, we thought maybe we could try changing his string setup, as well. Personally, I have not played with a lot of strings, and would consider myself as a newbie. Tried quite a few strings before like RPM Blasts, Alu Power, Alu Power Rough, Techni NRG2, XOne, BlackCode, MSV Focus, Hyper G, Cyclone, etc. But hey, it would be impossible to try all the 101 and more strings out there. Just like some of the folks who plays hifi, there are at least 2 or more school of thoughts on tennis strings as well. There are no right or wrong, but perhaps sometimes decisions are guided on one's objectives and priorities (and how deep is one's pocket, and a lot of other factors too). And I totally agree that junior tennis development is a long journey. Sometimes, it is a bit of a trial and error, as well. Having said all these, and also taking into consideration all your great inputs, ultimately, I guess I have to go figure out what works best for my 10yo...
 
wsk429

wsk429

Semi-Pro
ricardo said:
I use poly for the following reasons:
  1. Durability
    If you break non-poly strings under 10 hours, you should consider using poly.
  2. Spin potential
    If you want more spin and you have the required RHS and spin generating technique, then poly will give you a little bit more spin compared to non-poly.
  3. Control
    If you hit really hard and the ball goes long even with topspin, then you may need poly to tame the power. Polys in general are less powerful than non-poly strings.
If you don't have any of the above needs, then poly may not be the optimal string for you.
Click to expand...

None of the above reasons are any good for using poly. Who has such a critical need of durability, spin, and or control that an arm injury is worth it?
 
CopolyX

CopolyX

Hall of Fame
As a parent, their are plenty right and wrong paths. But I can't tell you which ones. That is up to you to do to, by protecting those growing wonders!
err on the side of caution...........or not...that is the question...or is it.....
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
Remember too that as a parent who's willing to let a kid hit 500-1000 balls a day, 5-6 days a week for years, the issue of whats an acceptable risk of injury is different. The fact is that that is probably the bare minimum for reaching full potential. The risk for overuse injuries is huge. I personally believe that the choice of strings is a very low factor when compared to other risks. But as a parent sometimes you take risks. When you talk about developing a kid's strokes from the ground up, I believe its important to have the equipment fine tuned to their game. My daughter hits (44/44) polys. We've tried multis, gut and gut/poly. She can certainly play good tennis with any set up, but there is a bite, control and ability to swing out on balls that just responds better to her setup. And that's the setup she picked. As recently as six months ago we tried a multi setup at different tensions. She didnt like it and there is a definite loss of control when you're hitting a ball that hard. You need that extra spin. It wasn't dramatic or anything but there is absolutely a difference. You can even tell when the string is at its best. (after the first hour, before the fourth, cut out at six as its going to be worthless soon.) To compete on high collegiate or beyond levels, kids have to be darn near magicians with the ball in very tough situations. I think it HAS to be detrimental to switch from a syn gut or multi in the teens. Its a different feel for the ball. Not saying it cant be done, it obviously can. I just believe that whatever set up a kid uses in their formative years has a definite impact in their development. And the fact that the very best strokes in the game use pretty much NOTHING but gut and poly.
 
DJTaurus

DJTaurus

Hall of Fame
tenniskit said:
Durability wise for Cyclone Tour? Is it like Cyclone?
Click to expand...

To me Cyclone tour is the best poly i have ever used along with pacific x force... But it has a huge disadvantage.... It looses tension extremely fast (you will notice loss of control on your shots after 5-7 hours) and it becomes rounded quickly as well. If you can afford to strung it regularly it's an amazing string that's totally arm friendly (very soft on contact with great feel), spinier than regular cyclone, very very crisp and a powerhouse!
 
F

FuzzyYellowBalls41

Guest
Haven't used regular Cyclone but Cyclone Tour is as durable as any poly out there. I use it in a 16 gauge so I'll never break it. But yes super soft feel and plenty of spin. Probably the most arm friendly poly oriented string out there honestly.
 
F

FuzzyYellowBalls41

Guest
probably more deadness after say like 10 hrs but they don't move around at all. They slide back into place nicely. I never have to manually adjust my strings; always perfectly aligned.
 
Karma Tennis

Karma Tennis

Legend
FuzzyYellowBalls41 said:
probably more deadness after say like 10 hrs but they don't move around at all. They slide back into place nicely. I never have to manually adjust my strings; always perfectly aligned.
Click to expand...

I found that the 1.30mm never moved around. But the 1.25mm eventually do. Yet to try the thinner gauges but will get to them eventually.
 
Traffic

Traffic

Hall of Fame
DJTaurus said:
To me Cyclone tour is the best poly i have ever used along with pacific x force... But it has a huge disadvantage.... It looses tension extremely fast (you will notice loss of control on your shots after 5-7 hours) and it becomes rounded quickly as well. If you can afford to strung it regularly it's an amazing string that's totally arm friendly (very soft on contact with great feel), spinier than regular cyclone, very very crisp and a powerhouse!
Click to expand...
FWIW, I am abandoning Cyclone Tour 17g. Granted, it's in a hybrid setup and maybe that's the problem. Maybe soft poly hybrid with sgut doesn't work so well. But I found it to be unpredictable and very difficult to control compared to regular Cyclone 17. It is soft and that's the part I love. But unless I hit a near perfect shot, it gets launched on me.

I tried it first at 52/53. Played reasonably well for a couple hours. Turned to mush by hour 4 and very unpredictable. Strung it again at 55/53 and things were crisper. But it still had a bit of jekyl and hyde. Hit it well and it's beautiful. But miss-time it slightly and its' gone. I'm a lowly 3.0 with more medium than fast RHS. My son hits harder, more consistent and more spin. He experienced the same thing. The power was difficult to control and so he's back to Cyclone/OGSM hybrid.

Like I said, maybe it plays much differently in a full bed. But in a hybrid with sgut, I can't play with it.
 
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