Was Wawrinka's retirement in USO 2012 disrespectful?

[StrongRule]

What happened yesterday is exactly the same thing which happened at the same tournament and the same stage 7 years ago. In USO 2012 fourth round Djokovic was leading Wawrinka 6-4 6-1 3-1, then Wawrinka retired due to a random injury, it is not even clear what exactly was the problem. I'm not trying to give opinions here, just wonder if people think Wawrinka deserved bashing for not playing 3 more games. Of course beating 2012 Wawrinka isn't the same thing as beating 2019 Djokovic, but still.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

two wrongs don't make a right. They could both be disrespectful.

 

[GabeT]

Once a player determines he can’t continue I don’t see much benefit of simply “going through the motions”. It’s not like fans pay to see a player just serve underhand just to finish a match.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

..

 

[AceSalvo]

Stan had 0 slams back in 2012. It was as good as Tomic retiring. Meaning, much ado about nothing.

Stan holds 3 GS's now. I think he respects the game enough to not retire mid-match.

 

[Djokodal Fan]

Fed fans will be perfectly fine with this retirement since it was someone not named Djokovic who did it.

 

[Djokodal Fan]

Stan had 0 slams back in 2012. It was as good as Tomic retiring. Meaning, much ado about nothing.

Stan holds 3 GS's now. I think he respects the game enough to not retire mid-match.

You are first and foremost a tennis player. Winning or holding slams has no context here. So you mean to say someone who hasn't won slams can withdraw?

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

Stan was injured.
Djoko wasn't.

 

[AceSalvo]

So you mean to say someone who hasn't won slams can withdraw?

Wrong, someone who won a slam is a proven fighter. You don't run away with the tail in between your legs when you have won slams.

Remember, Cilic at Wimbledon 2017?? What did he do?? Work on that answer.

 

[JimJones]

What does Roddick think?

 

[Lleytonstation]

Once a player determines he can’t continue I don’t see much benefit of simply “going through the motions”. It’s not like fans pay to see a player just serve underhand just to finish a match.

Okay, let's say he could no longer take the pain of hitting his two hand backhand even though I did not see signs of struggle in that department (maybe he was hiding it until he simply could no longer do it).

Other than maybe the toss in his serve, could he not just slice his backhand and do his best to see if he could get back in it. Plenty of players have only been able to slice at times (DelPo for one).

Even if he knew he would not win, would you not agree that it would have been better for everyone if he had just finished the last 15 minutes playing without a two hander?

Now, maybe it was the toss that he could no longer handle, as his last serv showed.

 

[K-H]

Stan had 0 slams back in 2012. It was as good as Tomic retiring. Meaning, much ado about nothing.

Stan holds 3 GS's now. I think he respects the game enough to not retire mid-match.

That's the most bs I've ever heard.
All players should behave in a certain manner regardless of how many slams they've won.
Just because a player hasnt won any grand slams doesn't mean they can get away with things compared to those who have won grand slams

 

[Tenez101]

two wrongs don't make a right. They could both be disrespectful.

But which one got booed off the court?

 

[AceSalvo]

That's the most bs I've ever heard.

Good. I am just returning all the BS Djoko-turds where pasting around here.

Regardless of BS, I have more respect for Nadal (AO14) and Cilic (Wimb17). Djoko is just a big LOL. Respect the game and your opponent!

 

[GabeT]

Okay, let's say he could no longer take the pain of hitting his two hand backhand even though I did not see signs of struggle in that department (maybe he was hiding it until he simply could no longer do it).

Other than maybe the toss in his serve, could he not just slice his backhand and do his best to see if he could get back in it. Plenty of players have only been able to slice at times (DelPo for one).

Even if he knew he would not win, would you not agree that it would have been better for everyone if he had just finished the last 15 minutes playing without a two hander?

Now, maybe it was the toss that he could no longer handle, as his last serv showed.

You may be right, maybe he should have served underhand or something similar for the last 15 minutes. My point is that at that point it was all theater. Does it make a difference for me as fan if they end it when they did or if it was extended 15 minutes while the injured player “pretended” to play? Can’t see much difference. But others may see it differently

 

[Tennis_Hands]

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[Tenez101]

The one who made a career of trying to rub it in the face of the spectators.

Guess why?

He never made a career of it, he talked back to the crowd maybe once. You’re rationalizing their behavior.

 

[TheFifthSet]

I will say this: anyone who thinks Djokovic was perfectly healthy and mailed it in is either seriously sour or doesn’t really understand the mindset of a professional athlete. Guys chasing Fedal and you think he would quit on a potentially legacy-defining match like that? Foh

 

[Tennis_Hands]

..

 

[Tenez101]

You are wrong on so many levels. This goes back to at least 2010 but maybe earlier. Djokovic was reacting to the public supporting Federer at the USO that year with provocations similar to what Medvedev did (minus the middle finger gesture). Then the next year was the same situation. Then the incident in Madrid with Dimitrov, then the whole Wimbledon history. The list is very long, so you are factually incorrect, and I wonder why would you say things like that, if you are interested in establishing the truth as your crusade for "justice" in the last day and a half seemingly shows.

Lol, hit you a little too hard yesterday? I'm mostly against hypocrisy and groupthink, which this board is infested with. I don't really care, but it's fun triggering the hypocrites on this forum. Anyways, before 2010 is hardly all of Djokovic's career. He was a kid back then, you are being disingenuous. Since 2011 he's done nothing except thank the US crowd, which has been trash all the time he's playing. The way the USO crowd behaves is on the level of animals, not humans. They should rename it "Arthur Ashe Zoo" the way things are going.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

..

 

[Subway Tennis]

Some truly bone headed comments in this thread.

The idea that Stan somehow feels slighted or disrespected because a player gets injured and doesn't want to keep him out there another 25 minutes to corpse through a few more games is absolutely idiotic.

Nadal's acts of sportsmanship completing matches while injured at AO in 2011 and 2014 keep getting cited as standards that Djokovic should have met in the match against Wawrinka. Its not fair to use these examples as ground rules by which every single match should be completed. Particularly if a player risks substantial further damage by playing injured.

This wasn't a final like the 2014 AO. If anything, Stan is probably concerned for Djokovic but happier to get off court 25 minutes earlier rather than compel Djokovic to stay out there longer and play injured.

 

[Mr Feeny]

Fed fans will be perfectly fine with this retirement since it was someone not named Djokovic who did it.

Forget Federer fans. All tennis fans have a problem with Djokovic acting the way he did. Which is why he got booed out of the building yesterday. Your obsession with Federer is alarming.

 

[Zetty]

Wawrinka was never the #1 player in the world, you don't get that type of scrutiny unless you're the guy.

 

[Mr Feeny]

Wrong, someone who won a slam is a proven fighter. You don't run away with the tail in between your legs when you have won slams.

Remember, Cilic at Wimbledon 2017?? What did he do?? Work on that answer.

Cilic stood there like a man and let Federer win the match. He finished the match the right away. On his feet.

As you said, he didn't tuck his tail between his legs and run away. It's incredible to watch the Djokovic fanboys trip over their feet attempting to justify what happened yesterday.

And if they could throw in a shot at Federer somewhere while doing so, they'll do so. Obsessed.

 

[Tenez101]

You think that you are making personal comments, but I hear only the noise of a hot steam coming from your direction. I pointed at the year when I am sure that what I am saying was already a fact. Whether it was Djokovic's entire career, or only the bigger part of it is irrelevant. The phrase "made a career of trying to do something" doesn't mean that he was doing it his entire career, but that he made it consistently enough to be remembered as one of the hallmarks of his career (or a separate career parallel to his main career). What you or I think about the behaviour of the spectators is irrelevant. The players are not supposed to react to the spectators in such a way. It is in the official rules. Outside of these rules people make estimates on the behaviour of the players and form an opinion. You went from claiming that Djokovic never consistently provoked anyone to the policy of reassuring that when he did, it was because of them and not of him. To that I will say that, apart from already abandoning your previous stance, it shows that you don't know **** about how the players are supposed to behave, nor your attitude towards the broad public shows that you are in any way different than the part of the spectators that you so eagerly criticise.

Wow, somebody's triggered. Sounds like you have a lot of personal stake in this whole discussion. The fact is Novak hasn't done anything since he was a kid, rather made himself into an ambassador of the sport since 2011. You are clearly trying to denigrate him because you personally don't like him. To an objective audience, you come off as disorganized, desperate and perhaps not sober, maybe you were part of the mob in Arthur Ashe last night?

 

[AceSalvo]

It's incredible to watch the Djokovic fanboys trip over their feet attempting to justify what happened yesterday.

And if they could throw in a shot at Federer somewhere while doing so, they'll do so. Obsessed.

Think for a moment, if Fed pulled a Djoko. We would have had 10 threads by now. Fed fans are playing it low.

 

[zipplock]

It's not disrespectful to quit, but it is still quiting.

 

[Subway Tennis]

Think for a moment, if Fed pulled a Djoko. We would have had 10 threads by now. Fed fans are playing it low.

This is true. Federer is often measured by unfairly high standards, too. When he withdrew at the last minute from the 2014 WTF he was pilloried for it, perhaps unfairly, given that a back injury is about as serious as it gets for a tennis player.

Some of the comments got particularly harsh, suggesting Federer was ducking Djokovic and even denying he was injured at all.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

..

 

[DeathStar]

I think a lot of people also must have booed because he beats their favorite (Federer) over and over. This was a little way to show their dislike for the Djoker.

 

[Subway Tennis]

I think a lot of people also must have booed because he beats their favorite (Federer) over and over. This was a little way to show their dislike for the Djoker.

This is indeed part of it.

 

[Boom-Boom]

Without a serious debilitating injury the player should finish the match. He should make that effort because the professional rules require it, the respect towards the opponent requires it and the obligation towards the paying customers requires it.

Last night, upon hearing that Djokovic is retiring, Wawrinka had a face of someone who was wondering what is going on, never mind celebrating. The spectators also wondered what happened so that the guy who was chasing just a moment ago drop shots was retiring without an obvious sign that he has a serious problem. It doesn't help that Djokovic said in his press conference that he will be playing on schedule, expecting the problem to go away.

Eggovic revealing his true self to the world ... again

Remember the Roddick hilarious presser about Joe Kovic having anthrax etc

 

[I Am Finnish]

At Queens Bogomolov jr was 2 sets down but he retired at 6-4 6-6 (6-3)


Seriously Im not j/k

 

[Tenez101]

You keep repeating this, but instead I am having a blast watching the likes of you trying to bite left right and center while defending a pretty questionable behaviour. I have made a mistake of thinking that you have anything to say. Just another Djoke troll.

Whatever makes you feel better mac, sunglasses make you a winner.

 

[Dilexson]

I dunno about respecting the sport and all but if i pay to see a match i want to see the match.
Goes for that WTF finals too. I would've boo' d the moment i saw Sweater-er.

 

[Subway Tennis]

I dunno about respecting the sport and all but if i pay to see a match i want to see the match.
Goes for that WTF finals too. I would've boo' d the moment i saw Sweater-er.

I'd forgotten about the sweatsuit he came out in to announce the withdrawal. A crocheted cardigan and tracksuit pants with his tennis runners still on.

The whole thing was very sad. There was no doubt he was desperately trying to be out there but was just too troubled by the back.

 

[True Fanerer]

It's sort of like being Captain of a ship. Djokovic is the #1 player in the world, Defending UO Champion, Winner of the past 4/5 slams. The biggest scalp in the game at the moment. Go down with the ship. Nope, he had too much pride to face the situation head on without a crutch. Stuff like this taints not only Wawrinka's win, but the tournament overall. Some will say he only lost because he was injured. I don't believe that. Stan earned this.

 

[Djokodal Fan]

Wrong, someone who won a slam is a proven fighter. You don't run away with the tail in between your legs when you have won slams.

Remember, Cilic at Wimbledon 2017?? What did he do?? Work on that answer.

Doesn't matter. When you re in top 100 of a sport, you are considered an elite athlete. Winning or not winning a slam doesn't give you an excuse to withdraw.

So it's perfectly fine for Nadal to withdraw in slam finals or Roger to not even play a final? So Novak has some kind of different yardstick here? The logic here in TTW is to bash Nadal or Federer or djok when they are down.

They are he biggest and best tennis athletes you'll see. When they say they are not 100% , they mean it. It doesnt matter whether they complete their matches. Also it doesn't mean viewers and fans can have a different yardstick for delpo, Monfils, cilic or Stan.

 

[Djokodal Fan]

I think a lot of people also must have booed because he beats their favorite (Federer) over and over. This was a little way to show their dislike for the Djoker.

That pretty much explains it. That's what it's all about. Some vile fed fans here have shown their colors in the name of neutral tennis . They still could not digest Novak's Wimbledon win. Same Novak could have pulled a injury card when he was down 2 match points. But he didn't and they still could not come out of that nightmare.

 

[HuusHould]

Im sure its been mentioned, but I think two issues come into the equation, regarding the harsh treatment of Novak from the USO crowd. One is the ongoing feud between Djokovic and the USO crowd and the other is the volume of retirements (for legitimate, semi legitimate or illegitimate reasons is up for debate) throughout Novaks career. Roddick once accused him of contracting "bird flu". Stan hasnt withdrawn as routinely.

 

[DeathStar]

Im sure its been mentioned, but I think two issues come into the equation, regarding the harsh treatment of Novak from the USO crowd. One is the ongoing feud between Djokovic and the USO crowd and the other is the volume of retirements (for legitimate, semi legitimate or illegitimate reasons is up for debate) throughout Novaks career. Roddick once accused him of contracting "bird flu". Stan hasnt withdrawn as routinely.

Stan hasn't withdrawn as routinely, but does Stan play nearly as many matches as Novak. Novak goes deep in almost every tournament. Stan loses early often and finishes matches, but checks out of them this gives his body & mind the break needed to go full power once in a while.

 

[hipolymer]

I'd forgotten about the sweatsuit he came out in to announce the withdrawal. A crocheted cardigan and tracksuit pants with his tennis runners still on.

The whole thing was very sad. There was no doubt he was desperately trying to be out there but was just too troubled by the back.

Guy on the right be like "right on time for my fetus absorption appointment"

 

[BeatlesFan]

two wrongs don't make a right. They could both be disrespectful.

Think of Hitler and Stalin for an apt analogy here.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Once a player determines he can’t continue I don’t see much benefit of simply “going through the motions”. It’s not like fans pay to see a player just serve underhand just to finish a match.

The last serve Novak offered before his retirement was 116 MPH. Perfectly respectful and better than his first serve velocity in 2016-17 or certainly 2009. It's nowhere near Chang's underarm serve against Ivan in the 1989 FO. Djokovic was nowhere near the reduced level of serving an underarm serve, this is pure fantasy.

 

[GabeT]

The last serve Novak offered before his retirement was 116 MPH. Perfectly respectful and better than his first serve velocity in 2016-17 or certainly 2009. It's nowhere near Chang's underarm serve against Ivan in the 1989 FO. Djokovic was nowhere near the reduced level of serving an underarm serve, this is pure fantasy.

He was clearly hurt. And the shoulder that was affecting him was the left one, affecting not just his serve but also the backhand.

Once he determined he couldn’t play anymore what was the purpose of staying? Would fans really be happier if he just went through the motions?

 

[GabeT]

It's sort of like being Captain of a ship. Djokovic is the #1 player in the world, Defending UO Champion, Winner of the past 4/5 slams. The biggest scalp in the game at the moment. Go down with the ship. Nope, he had too much pride to face the situation head on without a crutch. Stuff like this taints not only Wawrinka's win, but the tournament overall. Some will say he only lost because he was injured. I don't believe that. Stan earned this.

Obviously Stan earned it but that doesn’t change the fact that Nole was injured. It’s been clear throughout the USO. It doesn’t taint the win just like Fed’s withdrawal in 2014 doesn’t taint Nole’s WTF win.

 

[True Fanerer]

Obviously Stan earned it but that doesn’t change the fact that Nole was injured. It’s been clear throughout the USO. It doesn’t taint the win just like Fed’s withdrawal in 2014 doesn’t taint Nole’s WTF win.

I don't remember thinking at any point that Djokovic was compromised on the court in this tournament. Everyone was saying that he seemed unaffected in their posts. He hadn't dropped a set in the tournament. I don't doubt that there was possibly some pain, but it did not show when he was on court. Also, if what you are saying is true, then I can assume that no one in the future will say that Federer/Nadal or who ever wins the tournament didn't earn it. I seriously doubt that you can guarantee that. His retiring is a problem imo.

 

[GabeT]

I don't remember thinking at any point that Djokovic was compromised on the court in this tournament. Everyone was saying that he seemed unaffected in their posts. He hadn't dropped a set in the tournament. I don't doubt that there was possibly some pain, but it did not show when he was on court. Also, if what you are saying is true, then I can assume that no one in the future will say that Federer/Nadal or who ever wins the tournament didn't earn it. I seriously doubt that you can guarantee that. His retiring is a problem imo.

I can’t speak for anyone else obviously. And we all like to troll. But I don’t doubt that if Federer or Nadal wins they will have very much earned it. Other than online discussions no one even remembers how any player won a tournament. They know the winner and that’s all that matters.

 

[eagletennis]

Double standards