Water Bottles and BPA.

I was in need of a reusable water bottle so I went shopping for some and noticed some very cheap plastic water bottles and the expensive stainless steel ones. All of them claim to be BPA free but why such the price gap? For example, plastic ones were $5, aluminum was $10, and stainless steel was $25. What is the point of paying more for aluminum or stainless steel if there are already cheaper plastic ones made BPA free? Are BPA free plastic bottles unsafe or something?

Also, how do I tell if an aluminum bottle is BPA free or not when it's not listed on the bottle? Majority of them are BPA free but sometimes they contain epoxy lining which has BPA.

Thank you.
 
Use some of that water to swallow a Xanax, Stumpy. (Say, you're not the Stumpy who was married to McCartney, are you?)
 

PCXL-Fan

Hall of Fame
If they don't market the bottle as bpa free, in most likely hood its not bpa free, as that is a big selling point.

You are paying for the fancy metal and their price gouging.
 
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WildVolley

Legend
I'd guess that the plastic bottles are cheaper to make, but I have no evidence.

Aluminum bottles took a hit after it was discovered that Sigg bottles had BPA in the liner. On the other hand, Sigg bottles have always been crazy expensive.

Also, I think there is a general fear of plastic bottles. BPA is not the only questionable chemical used in making plastics. Stainless steel is probably more trusted these days than BPA-free plastic.

I still find glass the best material to drink out of, but it has that nasty habit of breaking.
 

meowmix

Hall of Fame
If you have a Ross near you, you can find stainless steel bottles pretty cheap. Just bought one the other day... 3.49. There were slightly more expensive ones for $5.
 

1stVolley

Professional
The other advantage of a stainless steel bottle (at least one with a polished interior) is that it keeps its contents cooler for a longer period than plastic bottles.
 

Centered

Hall of Fame
Stainless steel is the way to go.

BPA is also in aluminum can liners. There is one company, in Indiana I think, that makes BPA-free cans, but most of the food industry won't buy them because they're a bit more expensive. EDEN foods uses them.

BPA is used in frozen meal packaging and other things as well.
 
I've seen the glass ones with the rubber on the outside. They are marketed as a lifestyle thing.

Mason Jars are cheap. And if you want a leather cover for it, tha'll be about $15 retail.
 

maverick66

Hall of Fame
I have a stainless steal one. I like it because the water seems not to get a nasty after taste to it like the plastic ones I have had. They always put a funny taste on the water.
 

XFactorer

Hall of Fame
The whole BPA thing is blown out of proportion and stainless steel water bottle companies are praying on your fears.

Now, I'm not saying let's not get reusable options or go green. But some people will mindlessly through 25 bucks at a reusable water container that costs X times the energy to create 100 plastic bottles. I just reuse my plastic bottles from Gatorade and whatnot until they're falling apart or I lose them. As long as you don't microwave your plastic water bottle, you're fine. BPAs used in plastics that contain food and water are FDA approved and shouldn't do harm to you unless you decide to just eat the bottle.
 
The whole BPA thing is blown out of proportion ... As long as you don't microwave your plastic water bottle, you're fine. BPAs used in plastics that contain food and water are FDA approved and shouldn't do harm to you unless you decide to just eat the bottle.

If you grind down an older Nalgene, mic it and eat the powdered crystals, you have a sliightly elevated chance of getting seriously ill.
EDIT:
In related news, I had some 'epic' city tap water at the park yesterday after tennis. Unfiltered. What a trip, man. There were enough unabsorbed/urinated antidepressants in there to keep me pretty groovin' for hours!
 
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WildVolley

Legend
If you grind down an older Nalgene, mic it and eat the powdered crystals, you have a sliightly elevated chance of getting seriously ill.

I don't know the level of leaching from a Nalgene bottle, but I do know that studies have shown some pretty nasty side effects in terms of sexual development and cancer in animal studies in amounts lower than what the EPA considers safe. That's reason enough for caution. Also, I'm a guy, so I don't want to be pumping estrogen into my system.

Most of the leaching with bottles was said to be caused by cleaning with harsh chemicals or hot liquids.

In any case, there isn't really a good reason to buy BPA bottles these days.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
The whole BPA thing is blown out of proportion and stainless steel water bottle companies are praying on your fears.

Now, I'm not saying let's not get reusable options or go green. But some people will mindlessly through 25 bucks at a reusable water container that costs X times the energy to create 100 plastic bottles. I just reuse my plastic bottles from Gatorade and whatnot until they're falling apart or I lose them. As long as you don't microwave your plastic water bottle, you're fine. BPAs used in plastics that contain food and water are FDA approved and shouldn't do harm to you unless you decide to just eat the bottle.

I just had a single houseguest plow through 24 plastic water bottles in one week (she bought them; we don't buy them). Even if it costs 100 bottles worth of energy to make a single reusable water bottle, she'll get there in a month.

Me, I'm fond of these:

31PLKfxXt8L._AA300_.jpg


They have a "bite valve" that takes some getting used to. But you can drink them while driving because you don't have to tip the bottle up to sip.

Each family member has one in a different color. If we grab a bite to eat, we each have our water bottle. Saves money and calories.
 
....I don't want to be pumping estrogen into my system.....

I'm with you, man.
But it's in the water.
It's. In. The. Water.

Filtered water. Bottled water. Certain kinds of containers. This is turning into a disaster movie.

EDIT:
FYI: I'm thinking about Rhino-Guarding an old glass milk bottle. Anyone with me?
 
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WildVolley

Legend
I'm with you, man.
But it's in the water.
It's. In. The. Water.

Filtered water. Bottled water. Certain kinds of containers. This is turning into a disaster movie.

EDIT:
FYI: I'm thinking about Rhino-Guarding an old glass milk bottle. Anyone with me?

It is sort of scary, isn't it!

Especially here in Southern California where some communities are processing sewage water into drinking water. The water tests positive for trace amounts of anti-depressants, estrogen from birth control pills, and all sorts of fun drugs. With all that in the water, the water bottle should be the last of your worries.

You can get actual spring water from the mountains, which is unlikely to have these problems, but it is costly and then they tend to ship it in plastic bottles.
 

PCXL-Fan

Hall of Fame
The whole BPA thing is blown out of proportion and stainless steel water bottle companies are praying on your fears.

Now, I'm not saying let's not get reusable options or go green. But some people will mindlessly through 25 bucks at a reusable water container that costs X times the energy to create 100 plastic bottles. I just reuse my plastic bottles from Gatorade and whatnot until they're falling apart or I lose them. As long as you don't microwave your plastic water bottle, you're fine. BPAs used in plastics that contain food and water are FDA approved and shouldn't do harm to you unless you decide to just eat the bottle.

You are wrong on a number of different levels.

The metal water bottle companies have nothing to do with it.
The metal waterbottles almost all have plastic lining. Prior to the various negative studies of BPA hitting the mainstream media, the majority of the plastic linings of metal water bottles had BPA. And there are still concerns with other chemicals in the lining they use.

As to using water bottles until they fall apart that isn't something you'd want to do either. At the point the water bottle is falling apart, tiny particles of plastic would likely make their way into the water you'd be drinking. You can continue to do that for yourself, but don't go telling people that its perfectly fine.

As to the FDA and their approval of BPA, they entirely base their approval off the data the manufacturers that profit off of BPA provided them. It is standard policy for the FDA to rely on industry studies. For years the regulatory agency actually ignored a number of studies showing these health effects, from impairing neurological development, to chromosomal damage in overies, to increased cancer rates.

simply watch the first 2 minutes of this congressional hearing video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6451441880371093421#
[00:01:09] Dr Alderson (clearly flustered): "All of our products that we [the FDA] approve are based on data that are prepared and conducted in studies by that particular manufacturer."
John Kerry: "But doesn't that bother you?"
Dr Alderson does not give a respond.

(Dr Norris Alderson is Associate Commissioner for Science for the FDA)


Unfortunately FDA has very much become a revolving door of employment for top-level agency bureaucrats between itself and the industries it oversees. This indusrty bias is thanks to the industries, lobbies and various administrations placing those with their interest at heart in key power positions in the FDA.

This is much like the mining and oil industry with its cosy close connection , which Obama has divided into 2 separate agencies to reduce corruption and industry bias. If it were not for lax policies towards the oil industry, there might have been stricter enforcement of safety/precautionary practices which would have prevented the spill. It has been all over the media that executives at BP repeatedly ignored carrying out the precautionary measures which would have prevented the spill.

The xenoestrongenic effect of BPA was known to the industry for +50 years. Prior to its use in plastics, it was used in the 1930's as a synthetic estrogen.

Dr. Fredrick Vom Saal, one of the scientists who's studies were repeatedly ignored by the FDA, begins speaking about the startling results of studying BPA [begins at 35 seconds into the clip]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW1B_ZT4Uwc&feature=related

Timeline of BPA:
http://www.ewg.org/reports/bpatimeline
Excerpt said:
March 1997: Studies show BPA to be toxic at levels that are in people. Just four years after EPA reaffirms its BPA safety standard, Fred vom Saal at the University of Missouri-Columbia finds that low level exposure to bisphenol A harms the prostate. This is the first of many studies from academic labs that will find harmful effects of BPA at levels of exposure far below the government's BPA safety standards, in the range of what is found in people. Over the next 11 years the body of literature on low-dose BPA toxicity will grow to include more than 100 publications linking BPA to breast and prostate damage, early puberty, behavioral problems, and other effects at levels up to 25 times lower than EPA's "safe" dose. [vom Saal's landmark 1997 prostate study]
 
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PCXL-Fan

Hall of Fame

National Geographic - Pharmaceutical & hormones in water
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/11/091112-drinking-water-cocaine/

picture from national geographic
6a00d8341e992c53ef0133ecc7c097970b-pi


Basically we are ****ing over the world with pollution and our industrial short term profit maximization goals.

Animals all over the world from fish to polar bear are developing impaired reproductive systems because of all the synthetic hormone in the water.

Endocrine disruption in sexual differentiation and puberty. What do pseudohermaphroditic polar bears have to do with the practice of pediatrics?
 

PCXL-Fan

Hall of Fame
Further links to effects on animals:

USGS - Intersex in Largemouth Bass Induced by Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals: A Time Course of Histopathology and Molecular Events along the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonad (HPG) Axis

Endocrine Disruptors, Genital Development, and Hypospadias - Journal of Andrology

We as individuals and as society like to live under the false blanket of security made out of denial and avoidance. We push our problems to the side avoiding dealing with them, but after decades of dumping chemicals and societal waste into the ocean, lakes and rives the [bleep] is finally starting to hit the fan.

The effect of pervasive environmental endocrine distruption on the human species:


The sperm count has been decreasing steadily for many years in Western industrialised countries: Is there an endocrine basis for this decrease?
http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php?xmlFilePath=journals/iju/vol2n1/sperm.xml

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2349920/

Constant decline in sperm concentration in infertile males in an urban population: experience over 18 years
http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(05)02936-5/abstract

The disappearing male:
http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/doczone/2008/disappearingmale/endocrine.html

Among the men who died in 1981, 56.4% had normal, healthy sperm production. By 1991, however, this figure had dropped dramatically to 26.9%. The average [total] weight of the men's testes decreased over the decade, while the proportion of useless fibrous testicular tissue increased.


sperm-tbl1.jpg
 
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Looking through this thread there wasn't any reference that I saw about cash register receipts.

The cash register receipts are the number one way of getting BPA into your system, even more than plastic bottles.

Here's a little about it and a petition is being filed to have the BPA taken out of the receipts.

http://www.anh-usa.org/anh%e2%80%93usa-files-petition-to-ban-bpa-in-cash-register-receipts/

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit eating cash register receipts.
Wait a minute, they're referring to osmosis through the skin! It's a conspiracy to dumb us down and turn us into wussies. While selling us stuff we do not need.

I really want to go back to a simpler time.
 

PCXL-Fan

Hall of Fame
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit eating cash register receipts.
Wait a minute, they're referring to osmosis through the skin! It's a conspiracy to dumb us down and turn us into wussies. While selling us stuff we do not need.

I really want to go back to a simpler time.

Its no conspiracy. A most of modern lifestyle has been achieved in large due to quickly incorporating (and without looking back) the scientific advances in modern synthetic chemistry into every facet of everything. Even if there were the illuminati, they'd be inevitably poisoning themselves, as you can't escape the pollutants. For example the evaporation does not remove many of the chemicals pesent in terrestrial bodies of water (eg rivers seas etc) so rain contain many of the same toxic chemicals and because of wind and rain it will transfer pollutants everywhere. In north america we get air and water pollution originating all the way from china.

Do you really want to give up your computer? And all the toxic chemicals not just in it but used in the manufacturing?
Now we have to take a look at what we are doing and make serious change before its too late. Humanity has never been very wise and we've made countless mistakes. Our breakneck paced industrial innovations/inventions have been great on a short term narrow spectrum basis, but many propagators of one or another invention often lacks foresight or turn a blind eye to the multitude of other spectrum's or into the consequences in the long term.
 
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WildVolley

Legend
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit eating cash register receipts.
Wait a minute, they're referring to osmosis through the skin! It's a conspiracy to dumb us down and turn us into wussies. While selling us stuff we do not need.

I really want to go back to a simpler time.

If you're eating at a fast food joint, don't throw that receipt in the bag with the food. They're also warning that you should wash your hands before eating after handling a receipt. Don't wash your hands with an alcohol based cleaner as that can allow the skin to absorb more of the BPA.

One more thing to be paranoid about, but it is still good to know this information.
 
...Even if there were the illuminati, they'd be inevitably poisoning themselves, as you can't escape the pollutants......

Do you really want to give up your computer? ...

Now we have to take a look at what we are doing and make serious change before its too late. Humanity has never been very wise and we've made countless mistakes. Our breakneck paced industrial innovations/inventions have been great on a short term narrow spectrum basis, but many propagators of one or another invention often lacks foresight or turn a blind eye to the multitude of other spectrum's or into the consequences in the long term.

They have their own water source. I've tasted it. It's delicious.
Yes.
Great points.

If you're eating at a fast food joint, ....
One more thing to be paranoid about, but it is still good to know this information.
I'm not.
Hey maaaan, it's not paranoia if the people who are trying to get us are really there, trying to get us.

So you wash your hands with drugged water to get the lethal chemicals off your hands from the receipt from the food that's probably going to kill you anyway. Hmmm.

Great points, guys. Thanks.

I'm still going back to a simpler time.
 
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