What really is the situation for Federer in Cincinnati

[lonestar]

It's not pathetic. A fan of any player will always root for them to do well, and in fact you have done the same thing for years rooting for Nadal to be #1 before he deserved it. The rankings are a good system and the players including Nadal, are happy with how fair they are. If you want the rankings to represent a shorter time period then look to the race points. Nadal would not want the system to be twisted around so that he can get the ranking, he wants to earn it by having the best results over a one year period, the same way all the greats have done throughout history.

Very well put!

 

[kimizz]

I am a Nadal fan but I dont think the rankings system is flawed. If you look at the lead Rafa has in the race points I must say if he loses that lead this year he doesnt deserve to be number one!

It wasnt long ago when ppl asked how Rafa is so close to Federer in the rankings with one GS against rogers three GS. The system works and the one with the best consistency during the year will get the #1 spot!

The race says it all...yes Rafa has been playing great and Roger has only 65% of the points of Nadal. So just be patient and you will see the rankings adjusting to the real situation. Like I sayd if Rafa loses hes race lead he doesnt deserve that number one spot.

 

[Clydey2times]

I've revised my opinion. I think people forget to make the distinction between the race and the rankings. One reflects the current best player and one reflects the best player over a 12 month period.

I suppose I find it slightly unfair that the current best player isn't recognised via the seedings. Then again, you couldn't really implement such a system. The current system is actually very fair. However, I'd like to see more focus on who's leading the race, particularly after a long period.

 

[Atherton2003]

I think the tennis ranking system is not too good. What other sport uses the previous year's results to determine the #1 ranking? Imagine if baseball and football used last years results and calculated them into figuring out who this year's winners are. Why not just start everyone at "0" in the beginning of each tennis year - that way, the clear #1 can always be determined for each particular year without defending points and including results from a previous year - that sounds ridiculous to me.

 

[drive]

The problem is that 60% of the tournaments are on hard court, and for this reason rankings are not fair.

 

[lonestar]

The problem is that 60% of the tournaments are on hard court, and for this reason rankings are not fair.

So what would be fair in your opinion?

 

[raiden031]

I think the tennis ranking system is not too good. What other sport uses the previous year's results to determine the #1 ranking? Imagine if baseball and football used last years results and calculated them into figuring out who this year's winners are. Why not just start everyone at "0" in the beginning of each tennis year - that way, the clear #1 can always be determined for each particular year without defending points and including results from a previous year - that sounds ridiculous to me.

Because tennis is a year-round sport. Comparing tennis to an sport like baseball and football is not even worthy of saying apples to organges, but more like saying apples to watermelons. It would be silly to make the rankings completely inaccurate at the beginning of every year by only counting events during that new year. In football and baseball there are what 8 months between season and with trades and drafts its basically a new team of players each year.

 

[Cenc]

at the end of the year both rankings and race should look the same for top players
so take a look at nadals advantage at RACE rankings and youll see what has to happen so that nadal loses it

 

[luckyboy1300]

people really needs reminding. come on! federer hasn't only got two minor tournament titles to his ranking, but he's got the US OPEN, CINCINNATI, MASTERS CUP, and several finals of slams and masters series. look beyond january up to 52 weeks prior to this week, please.

 

[ninman]

For Federer to stay number 1 he basically can't lose another match this year, and pray that Nadal loses early in just about everything he enters. However that being said, losing the number 1 ranking could be the best thing that's happened to Federer. He doesn't have the pressure of carrying his streak any more, plus it might give him added motivation to finally take home the all time GS record.

 

[Gugafan_Redux]

It's pathetic that some are rooting for Fed to hold the number 1 position despite we all know he doesn't deserve it. It would be a crime if that Nadal doesn't get the number 1 spot. The rankings shouldn't matter and Nadal should pace himself.

Yes, people desiring their own desired outcome can only be pathetic when it contradicts your own. And clearly the facticity of numbers (points earned over the last 12 months) can not hold a candle to your infallable sense of who is deserving of what.

And clearly the value of the rankings is dependent on the outcome being in favor of your favorite player: he's so good, it'd be criminal not to award him the top spot. But if it's not awarded, the rankings "shouldn't matter."

Congratulations. You're a credit to fandom everywhere. And happy 13th birthday.

 

[seffina]

I think the tennis ranking system is not too good. What other sport uses the previous year's results to determine the #1 ranking? Imagine if baseball and football used last years results and calculated them into figuring out who this year's winners are. Why not just start everyone at "0" in the beginning of each tennis year - that way, the clear #1 can always be determined for each particular year without defending points and including results from a previous year - that sounds ridiculous to me.

So if you start over at the beginning of the year and the first tournament is a minor event that all the top players don't even enter and whoever wins that tournament will be number one. That doesn't work at all. That's why the current system is the way it is. It recognizes the best work in a year, not what you've done last week. It's fine the way it is.

The point that coming in second place awards too many points is valid. But you have to remember it is not easy to come in second place. It's a lot of matches and if it was your favorite coming in second place, then you wouldn't mind those points. Should one person who won ONE grand slam be so far ahead of someone who has represented themselves well all year at every event. Roger has been to the semis and finals of all the grandslams in the last 52 week period. He reached many other finals as well. I understand that winning is really important, but I don't think it is that easy to make it to the finals. Just think about Rafa and Wimbledon the year before. Nobody can say he didn't deserve his points for the fight he put the entire tournament and the five setter that got Roger his fifth Wimbledon.

Thus, I don't think the system is flawed. In my mind, Rafa is number one now and soon the system will reflect that. The system, however, and thankfully doesn't work on emotions which is why it is needed. Roger will have to work hard to maintain his number one and it'll be all the more fun to watch him do that. They're both incredible players and I'm glad that it is close between them. It makes it more fun.

 

[rommil]

Nadal won both French Open and Wimbledon. Add Hamburg and Toronto to it and no way Fed should be in the lead. Fed has won 2 small tournaments. Ridiculous he is still in the lead. You all are looking like fools saying he deserves his ranking. The points totals he's gotten for not winning is too high.

Roger had a huge lead prior to this year. You are too blinded by your obssession. At the rate it's going, Rafa is going to catch up in a matter of time but for you to complain about it is stupid. It's the same system that got Nadal there and it's the same system that will render him the top spot eventually. Of course you will not be complaining then. Rafa's a good guy and an excellent player but I wonder why he gets fans like you. So defensive and inferior.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Federer hasn't won anything of note since Shanghai. He has won nothing for 3/4 of a season, yet is still the best player in the world apparently. Rafa has been dominating, yet is considered the second best player in the world. That, to me, indicates a flaw in the rankings.

I know how they work and in theory it sounds perfect. However, Rafa still being at number 2 after utterly dominating and consistently beating Federer in major finals makes a mockery of the rankings. It isn't right. Sure, he'll get the number 1 spot soon enough. My point is that Federer has no business being at number 1 just now. And this is coming from a neutral.

People seem to think the system is infallible. It's not. It is likely the best system there is, but in a situation such as this it is made to look very silly.

*Sigh*, what a moron. These Nadal fans here already gave me enough headaches, you say you know how the system works, yet you do not, because you're still moaning and pointlessly arguing about something that cannot be flawed or unfair, so just drop it.

 

[SirBlend12]

Everybody just calm down. It's obvious that the one who shall not be named is just expressing his sexual frustrations... about Rafa.

And also: don't you have to be at least 13 to join this forum?
Lying about your age is BAD, little boy.

 

[coloskier]

He is deserving of being number 2. Not number 1. It's a flawed system that rewards too many points for coming in second.

If the situation was reversed you would be saying exactly the opposite. It's Ok to be a fan, and I'm sure that Nadal will get the #1 ranking eventually, but let it happen like it is supposed to.

 

[grassjester]

Nadal won both French Open and Wimbledon. Add Hamburg and Toronto to it and no way Fed should be in the lead. Fed has won 2 small tournaments. Ridiculous he is still in the lead. You all are looking like fools saying he deserves his ranking. The points totals he's gotten for not winning is too high.

Seriously, your fandom is blind and pathetic. No one's disputing that Nadal is the #1 player THIS YEAR, but there's a system in place that governed the reigns of the last severl #1s and until Nadal is #1 in that system, he doesn't deserve it.

Consider this: Last year, after the USO, Federer had won THREE slams, YET it was still mathematically possible for Nadal to finish the year #1. Why?! Because Nadal was still doing well in the tournaments he was losing. Where you Nadal fans complaining about how unfair that was to Federer then? No, in your blind fandom, you (not you specifically, but I saw more than enough Nadal fans here hoping Nadal could finish #1, despite Federer winning THREE slams) wanted Nadal to be #1 at ALL costs...

Now the tables are turned. As the system was "unfair" to even allow the POSSIBILITY for Federer to not finish #1 after winning THREE SLAMS last year, so is it "unfair" for Federer to still have enough consistency points to deny Nadal #1 now.

I don't know what you're all *****ing about. I'm a Federer fanboy, but I respect Nadal and feel Nadal most definitely deserves #1, but to claim that the system is flawed as soon as it involves your favorite is the utmost hypocrisy. This is like the people who complained that the electoral college was a flawed system for allowing Bush to become president in 2000 despite having lost the popular vote. A 200+ year old system that has worked fine and fairly is suddenly flawed when your favorite is at stake--and I was pulling for Gore--do you realize how absurd that sounds?

Just be patient, let this worthless thread die, and celebrate Nadal becoming #1 in about three weeks at the most (seriously, there's no way Federer can hold onto it, so I don't know why you're even complaining)--because he EARNED it under the rules of the ESTABLISHED SYSTEM, not the system you're trying to dream up to justify your fandom.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Seriously, your fandom is blind and pathetic. No one's disputing that Nadal is the #1 player THIS YEAR, but there's a system in place that governed the reigns of the last severl #1s and until Nadal is #1 in that system, he doesn't deserve it.

Consider this: Last year, after the USO, Federer had won THREE slams, YET it was still mathematically possible for Nadal to finish the year #1. Why?! Because Nadal was still doing well in the tournaments he was losing. Where you Nadal fans complaining about how unfair that was to Federer then? No, in your blind fandom, you (not you specifically, but I saw more than enough Nadal fans here hoping Nadal could finish #1, despite Federer winning THREE slams) wanted Nadal to be #1 at ALL costs...

Now the tables are turned. As the system was "unfair" to even allow the POSSIBILITY for Federer to not finish #1 after winning THREE SLAMS last year, so is it "unfair" for Federer to still have enough consistency points to deny Nadal #1 now.

I don't know what you're all *****ing about. I'm a Federer fanboy, but I respect Nadal and feel Nadal most definitely deserves #1, but to claim that the system is flawed as soon as it involves your favorite is the utmost hypocrisy. This is like the people who complained that the electoral college was a flawed system for allowing Bush to become president in 2000 despite having lost the popular vote. A 200+ year old system that has worked fine and fairly is suddenly flawed when your favorite is at stake--and I was pulling for Gore--do you realize how absurd that sounds?

Just be patient, let this worthless thread die, and celebrate Nadal becoming #1 in about three weeks at the most (seriously, there's no way Federer can hold onto it, so I don't know why you're even complaining)--because he EARNED it under the rules of the ESTABLISHED SYSTEM, not the system you're trying to dream up to justify your fandom.

Right on dude, these crazy nadal fans need to behave

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Seriously, your fandom is blind and pathetic. No one's disputing that Nadal is the #1 player THIS YEAR, but there's a system in place that governed the reigns of the last severl #1s and until Nadal is #1 in that system, he doesn't deserve it.

Consider this: Last year, after the USO, Federer had won THREE slams, YET it was still mathematically possible for Nadal to finish the year #1. Why?! Because Nadal was still doing well in the tournaments he was losing. Where you Nadal fans complaining about how unfair that was to Federer then? No, in your blind fandom, you (not you specifically, but I saw more than enough Nadal fans here hoping Nadal could finish #1, despite Federer winning THREE slams) wanted Nadal to be #1 at ALL costs...

Now the tables are turned. As the system was "unfair" to even allow the POSSIBILITY for Federer to not finish #1 after winning THREE SLAMS last year, so is it "unfair" for Federer to still have enough consistency points to deny Nadal #1 now.

I don't know what you're all *****ing about. I'm a Federer fanboy, but I respect Nadal and feel Nadal most definitely deserves #1, but to claim that the system is flawed as soon as it involves your favorite is the utmost hypocrisy. This is like the people who complained that the electoral college was a flawed system for allowing Bush to become president in 2000 despite having lost the popular vote. A 200+ year old system that has worked fine and fairly is suddenly flawed when your favorite is at stake--and I was pulling for Gore--do you realize how absurd that sounds?

Just be patient, let this worthless thread die, and celebrate Nadal becoming #1 in about three weeks at the most (seriously, there's no way Federer can hold onto it, so I don't know why you're even complaining)--because he EARNED it under the rules of the ESTABLISHED SYSTEM, not the system you're trying to dream up to justify your fandom.

I'm pretty sure Nadal will be number 1 eventually like you say but it took a close race like this to realize that the system is not perfect. Now that we know the flaws, we can adjust the point totals to make winning a higher priority than just showing. Maybe just a slight tweak will be enough. Like 60% of the winners points instead of 70% for second place.

 

[DashaandSafin]

Nadal Trolls just got owned. Please lock and sticky this thread. Let it be a reminder to us of the massacre that happened here today.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

I'm pretty sure Nadal will be number 1 eventually like you say but it took a close race like this to realize that the system is not perfect. Now that we know the flaws, we can adjust the point totals to make winning a higher priority than just showing. Maybe just a slight tweak will be enough. Like 60% of the winners points instead of 70% for second place.

Wow this nadal fan is so blind he keeps insisting about it, he deserves a medal

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Wow this nadal fan is so blind he keeps insisting about it, he deserves a medal

I already explained why the system is flawed. Nadal benefitted from it last year and Fed benefitted from it this year. There shouldn't be one side benefitting from it more.

 

[Clydey2times]

*Sigh*, what a moron. These Nadal fans here already gave me enough headaches, you say you know how the system works, yet you do not, because you're still moaning and pointlessly arguing about something that cannot be flawed or unfair, so just drop it.

I know precisely how the rankings work. And if you had read the rest of the thread, you would realise that I have revised my opinion.

Read the entire thread before jumping in with your inane, misguided drivel.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

I know precisely how the rankings work. And if you had read the rest of the thread, you would realise that I have revised my opinion.

Read the entire thread before jumping in with your inane, misguided drivel.

Actually I did, and it seems to me that again you don't understand it, since you still argued that Nadal should already be #1 and that it is unfair

 

[Rhino]

According to rankings expert Judio (from MTF) this is the deal:

The Least Rafa needs to do to reach Number One

1 If Roger loses on Thursday, Rafa will be No 1 On Aug 11 by reaching Final

2 If Roger reaches the last 8, Rafa will be No 1 on Aug 11 by reaching Final

3 If Roger reaches the last 8, Rafa will be No 1 on Aug 4 by Winning Cinci

4 If Roger reaches the last 4, Rafa will be No 1 on Aug 11 by Winning Cinci

5 If Roger reaches the Final, Rafa cannot be Number 1 on Aug 11th

================================================== ============

On August 18th the Rankings will return to Normal
Federer's Best 5th event will be 0
Rafa's Best 5th Event will be 25 Points

They can add their Olympic Games result as one of their Best 5

Gold 400 Silver 280 Bronze 205 4th Place 155

Federer needs to get 275 points more than Rafa between today and end of Olympics to prevent Rafa being No 1 on Aug 18th

 

[Clydey2times]

Actually I did, and it seems to me that again you don't understand it, since you still argued that Nadal should already be #1 and that it is unfair

No, I said I would like there to be more emphasis on the race. As it is now, people look at the rankings and assume that Federer is the current best player in the world, when in fact he isn't. He is the best over the last 12 months, but he isn't even close to Nadal this season. Like I said, more emphasis should be put on the race, since it indicates who the best players are for the current season.

 

[Darth Nihilus]

Either way, Roger is going to lose his ranking this year. Nadal is too hot right now, no doubt. Either it happens in Cincy or the US Open, or even after that. Maybe it's a good thing, takes some pressure off him and maybe people won't hound him so much.

 

[GOD_BLESS_RAFA]

It doesn't matter when Nadal becomes #1 today, tomorrow, next week, etc. Once he becomes #1, he is going to stay there and break all records.

I couldn't agree more
He should keep the Wimbly cup and the FO cup as many years as he can and keep good hardcourt results (like reaching quarters or semis or finals)
and the N°1 rank he will get

 

[soyizgood]

Federer can realistically kiss that #1 ranking goodbye. Whether on 8/4, 8/11, after Olympics, or after USO. Nadal is calling the shots now.