When Roger Federer will trully be appreciated again...

[dpli2010]

The title may sound ridiculous at first sight in light of the facts that this entire forum is about him (and Rafa of course), that he is being considered as GOAT by many and many, and that the questioning of his GOATship is in a sense a simultaneous appreciation of the GOATship...

People made up this weak era concept as an explanation to his achievement, but my point is - do we have to wait for years to come to show no such numbers as 17/302 would happen to once again appreciate what he has done and is still doing?

maybe this article could be a start...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...utive-us-open-titles-is-an-unbreakable-record

 

[bullfan]

The title may sound ridiculous at first sight in light of the facts that this entire forum is about him (and Rafa of course), that he is being considered as GOAT by many and many, and that the questioning of his GOATship is in a sense a simultaneous appreciation of the GOATship...

People made up this weak era concept as an explanation to his achievement, but my point is - do we have to wait for years to come to show no such numbers as 17/302 would happen to once again appreciate what he has done and is still doing?

maybe this article could be a start...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...onsecutive-us-open-titles-is-an-unbreakable-r

Bleacher Report is a sad pitiful plagiarism site....

 

[HipRotation]

Given that there have been players that have been more dominate and won more before the ATP was formed it isn't out of the question to imagine his records being matched/beaten by the future generation of players.

We might have more slams (maybe even a second clay slam oh my goodness!) which would give future generations the chance to collect more slams. Life expectancy will increased and players will have longer careers.

In the end his records will probably be eclipsed and the factors that lead to it will be overlooked just like people today overlook the limitations faced by previous generations.

 

[tennisaddict]

Given that there have been players that have been more dominate and won more before the ATP was formed it isn't out of the question to imagine his records being matched/beaten by the future generation of players.

We might have more slams (maybe even a second clay slam oh my goodness!) which would give future generations the chance to collect more slams. Life expectancy will increased and players will have longer careers.

In the end his records will probably be eclipsed and the factors that lead to it will be overlooked just like people today overlook the limitations faced by previous generations.

Hilarious.

Life span has increased already from 60-80 . What does that got to do with your tennis window of 10-12 years ?

302 weeks at number 1 is set in stone. It is 6 long years.

There will not be a 5th slam unless China can really bring in crowds. And when that happens, 17 will probably be equivalent to 22-25 of future.

 

[HipRotation]

Hilarious.

Life span has increased already from 60-80 . What does that got to do with your tennis window of 10-12 years ?

302 weeks at number 1 is set in stone. It is 6 long years.

There will not be a 5th slam unless China can really bring in crowds. And when that happens, 17 will probably be equivalent to 22-25 of future.

I don't know where you pulled the "60-80" from, maybe for people born in 1820.

Gonzales was year end no 1 for 8 years, Tilden and Laver, 7. Kramer, Rosewall and Sampras, 6. It's well within the capabilities of someone to keep on top of the competition and break the "ATP record".

So his record is inflated but the players of the past don't? Rosewall still sits on 23 Major titles despite having only 3 Majors a year to play at during his prime.

 

[TheMusicLover]

WUT? "will truly be appreciated again"?

I think he gets plenty appreciated enough even now during his inevitable decline (sorry, happens to all players, it's called 'aging') - and rightly so, as he still brings pretty decent results.

Not the foggiest idea what you're talking about, OP.

 

[tennisaddict]

I don't know where you pulled the "60-80" from, maybe for people born in 1820.

Gonzales was year end no 1 for 8 years, Tilden and Laver, 7. Kramer, Rosewall and Sampras, 6. It's well within the capabilities of someone to keep on top of the competition and break the "ATP record".

So his record is inflated but the players of the past don't? Rosewall still sits on 23 Major titles despite having only 3 Majors a year to play at during his prime.

Rosewall won 8 majors. 5 of them AO. God knows how many were 48 person draws.

Pre-open era is irrelevant for comparison.

Perhaps if tennis changes significantly, Federer's tennis may be irrelevant after another 50 years.

But in our life time, he will be the Greatest.

 

[Federer20042006]

Given that there have been players that have been more dominate and won more before the ATP was formed it isn't out of the question to imagine his records being matched/beaten by the future generation of players.

The old rules will never happen again. By the way, the word is "dominant."

We might have more slams (maybe even a second clay slam oh my goodness!)

We'll never have more slams. They'd need to change the term, "Grand Slam," if there were. Grand Slam means "four." Four runs in baseball (bases loaded HR), four events in tennis and golf.

Life expectancy will increased and players will have longer careers.

Life expectancy will DECREASE in the future. Cancer is out of control, skyrocketing in young people and there is no improvement in treatment in sight.

In the end his records will probably be eclipsed and the factors that lead to it will be overlooked just like people today overlook the limitations faced by previous generations.

His records will be eclipsed by the fresh-as-a-daisey Rafael Nastall, yes. Nastall is going to be winning slams at 35+ years of age. There is no competition on clay in sight.

 

[dpli2010]

Bleacher Report is a sad pitiful plagiarism site....

A pretty serious problem in academic setting, but who cares if so in media reports as long as it tells truth...

 

[Steve0904]

He's probably more appreciated now than he ever has been. Of course, you will get your younger Nadal and Djokovic fans spouting off about weak eras and such, but overall, I think because he is older now and people know he could really retire any day at all if he wanted to he is more appreciated than ever. Just my 2 cents.

 

[ultradr]

Gonzales was year end no 1 for 8 years, Tilden and Laver, 7. Kramer, Rosewall and Sampras, 6. It's well within the capabilities of someone to keep on top of the competition and break the "ATP record".

This looks like an easy all time great list. Besides Sampras, all of these pre-Open
ranking is not purely based on strict points and combined with votes, as I understand, right?

And Gonzalez and Laver's 8 and 7 year end #1 are consecutive years, AFAIK, right?

 

[smoledman]

Federer will be appreciated once he's retired and gone. Nobody wants to watch his ballerina "game".

/SoBad

 

[borg number one]

Once Federer retires, he'll be considered one of the greatest tennis players ever. That's a tremendous honor given how many great tennis players there have been. I think after ~5-10 years subsequent to his retirement, you'll have Nadal also held in a similar regard. I think they'll be both be among all time great players, remembered for as long as tennis is played. Don't underestimate the marketing aspects of tennis. The sport will search mightily for that next great to follow Laver, Borg, Sampras, Federer and Nadal.

 

[smoledman]

Borg was truly unique. To win 6 French Opens and 5 consecutive Wimbledons. Even Nadal could not come close to doing this. That was also when the surfaces were drastically different too.

 

[AngieB]

Federer will be appreciated once he's retired and gone. Nobody wants to watch his ballerina "game".

/SoBad

So rude and So nasty.

AngieB

 

[Noleberic123]

Federer is appreciated the most on this forum

 

[dpli2010]

Federer will be appreciated once he's retired and gone. Nobody wants to watch his ballerina "game".

/SoBad

One thing I like about this forum is through which I could see how people think...

 

[SoBad]

Federer will be appreciated once he's retired and gone. Nobody wants to watch his ballerina "game".

/SoBad

Federer has received a lot of media attention due to his 2003 – 2007 era wins and the racquet company promotion. He deserves a quiet retirement in a remote location away from the spotlight, not a life of desperation running all over Rio and Tokyo begging for wildcards in pursuit of Olympic dream.

 

[BobbyOne]

Rosewall won 8 majors. 5 of them AO. God knows how many were 48 person draws.

Pre-open era is irrelevant for comparison.

Perhaps if tennis changes significantly, Federer's tennis may be irrelevant after another 50 years.

But in our life time, he will be the Greatest.

tennisaddict, Rosewall's 23 majors are not irrelevant. How do you come to 8 majors? If I follow your thesis, he only has 4!

Rosewall has won 4 Australian Championships, two of them were AO.

Learn history!

 

[BobbyOne]

This looks like an easy all time great list. Besides Sampras, all of these pre-Open
ranking is not purely based on strict points and combined with votes, as I understand, right?

And Gonzalez and Laver's 8 and 7 year end #1 are consecutive years, AFAIK, right?

ultradr, Laver's and Rosewall's No.1 rankings were partly in OPEN ERA (1968 to 1971).

 

[Russeljones]

Given that there have been players that have been more dominate and won more before the ATP was formed it isn't out of the question to imagine his records being matched/beaten by the future generation of players.

I agree. The new Persian Empire is just around the corner. No reason why there shouldn't be one.

 

[BringBackSV]

He's probably more appreciated now than he ever has been. Of course, you will get your younger Nadal and Djokovic fans spouting off about weak eras and such, but overall, I think because he is older now and people know he could really retire any day at all if he wanted to he is more appreciated than ever. Just my 2 cents.

Would you consider guys like McEnroe and Aggasi to be younger fans, since they acknowledge the difference in quality between Fed's dominance years and the current era. Fed is only 32, how old are these fans you are envisioning?

 

[The Green Mile]

Federer has received a lot of media attention due to his 2003 – 2007 era wins and the racquet company promotion. He deserves a quiet retirement in a remote location away from the spotlight, not a life of desperation running all over Rio and Tokyo begging for wildcards in pursuit of Olympic dream.

:lol::lol::lol:

Some of your posts are almost sig worthy for me.....

 

[Steve0904]

Would you consider guys like McEnroe and Aggasi to be younger fans, since they acknowledge the difference in quality between Fed's dominance years and the current era. Fed is only 32, how old are these fans you are envisioning?

Mac and Agassi are just trying to sell the game. McEnroe's opinion is worthless since it changes every time day turns to night, and back in 2005 Agassi was saying Federer was the best he'd ever played. Now Nadal is the best. It's nothing new. They're just saying controversial stuff to get people talking about tennis.

What I'm really talking about are people that are probably around mid teens right now who never saw the real Federer play and as such go spouting off at the mouth about "weak" eras when really it is a subjective concept that can never be proven. Not that anybody could ever say that to a 15 year old for example and expect it to be understood.

To be perfectly clear, I know there are good Nadal and Djokovic fans, I'd just wager to bet that most of the ones who really understand the concepts of things like weak eras are older as opposed to younger.

 

[dpli2010]

Given that there have been players that have been more dominate and won more before the ATP was formed it isn't out of the question to imagine his records being matched/beaten by the future generation of players.

We might have more slams (maybe even a second clay slam oh my goodness!) which would give future generations the chance to collect more slams. Life expectancy will increased and players will have longer careers.

In the end his records will probably be eclipsed and the factors that lead to it will be overlooked just like people today overlook the limitations faced by previous generations.

I don't think I am quite eligible to argue about what happened before the pre Open Era or the pre ATP time, nor about the 20 years of time since ~1970 without witnessing the performance of those players, but I guess it is worth asking such question as: why the GOAT talk was not initiated then but at the Federer time, given the fact that 17 (actually before it was 17) is not the best number in the men's domain?

 

[AssaultJoker]

It's Nadal/Djokovic era for the last 4 years, even Murray won more Slams than Federer during this period, so why should we overrate Federer?

 

[tennis_pro]

I don't know where you pulled the "60-80" from, maybe for people born in 1820.

Gonzales was year end no 1 for 8 years, Tilden and Laver, 7. Kramer, Rosewall and Sampras, 6. It's well within the capabilities of someone to keep on top of the competition and break the "ATP record".

So his record is inflated but the players of the past don't? Rosewall still sits on 23 Major titles despite having only 3 Majors a year to play at during his prime.

Bear in mind that basically until the mid 70's tennis wasn't nearly as much of an international sport as it is today, look at the draws in Slams in the 60's - 90% of the players were either from Australia or the States. Well look at the top 100 now. It's gonna be harder and harder to dominate with such fierce competition.

 

[Eureka]

People are sitting around waiting for Fed to be appreciated again?

Loooool! Life is too short, man. He is great, and others are great too. There's enough pie to go around, try not to hog it! Lool!

 

[SoBad]

:lol::lol::lol:

Some of your posts are almost sig worthy for me.....

How is your boating trip going? Sometimes when the discos on the lower deck get boring, people just take a helicopter ride to the nearest island to appreciate the nature!:lol:

 

[dpli2010]

I smell it now...

 

[JustBob]

Tennis has never been this physical a sport and future players will have longer careers? Unless they are fitted with bionic limbs, that ain't gonna happen. In that respect, comparing pre-open era, and even 70's, 80's tennis to today's tennis is like comparing football to competitive knitting.

 

[West Coast Ace]

Gonzales was year end no 1 for 8 years, Tilden and Laver, 7. Kramer, Rosewall and Sampras, 6. It's well within the capabilities of someone to keep on top of the competition and break the "ATP record".

Sorry, Open Era is the only relevant one. Those guys were great players; but tennis was an elitist sport - they didn't have a ton of competition. And Fed blew by Sampras by a nice margin.

There will not be a 5th slam unless China can really bring in crowds. And when that happens, 17 will probably be equivalent to 22-25 of future.

Should have stopped with the 1st sentence; no real people will recognize a 5th Slam. China can wave all the money it wants. If its economy hasn't burst by then. And even if the PRC keeps printing money, China will lose its interest in tennis when Li Na retires and the big 4 do. I have gone to the PVG tournament (and Masters Cup before it) and think the ATP was right to award it - but there aren't that many players in China - and what passes for 'middle class' there can't afford the ticket prices. That event could be in big trouble.

 

[Mustard]

Bear in mind that basically until the mid 70's tennis wasn't nearly as much of an international sport as it is today, look at the draws in Slams in the 60's - 90% of the players were either from Australia or the States. Well look at the top 100 now. It's gonna be harder and harder to dominate with such fierce competition.

There was a multiple semi finalist in the majors from Japan in the 1930s, named Jiro Sato. There have been Eastern Europeans and Indians. What was once 3 countries with the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia, is now 24 countries. Does that make tennis "more international"?

 

[JustBob]

Plus, this "Big 4" era is an historical anomaly. In the future, you can expect tennis to return to the norm and slams to be distributed amongst a greater number of players. Those who believe that 17 slams or 301 weeks at #1 will easily be beaten in the next, or next next generation are off their rocker.

 

[dpli2010]

Tennis has never been this physical a sport and future players will have longer careers? Unless they are fitted with bionic limbs, that ain't gonna happen. In that respect, comparing pre-open era, and even 70's, 80's tennis to today's tennis is like comparing football to competitive knitting.

Plus, this "Big 4" era is an historical anomaly. In the future, you can expect tennis to return to the norm and slams to be distributed amongst a greater number of players. Those who believe that 17 slams or 301 weeks at #1 will easily be beaten in the next, or next next generation are off their rocker.

- I would say so too--who else would argue that Rafa has pushed his physical endurance to its very limit? And he is now down for the North American hart-court swing and still remain unknown whether to compete in the Open...
- So Rafa can be regarded as a benchmark - he has made 14 Slams with that much effort and that many injuries/long pauses to arrive at his debatable GOATship candidacy, who else would you identify with confidence in the young guns can surpass and beat him and then to beat Roger?

 

[dpli2010]

Wondered what everyone would say about the Roger's Shanghai sweeping?

 

[moonballs]

Nobody is breaking the 17 slams record anytime soon. So Roger's accomplishments not to mention the artistry on tennis court is already and always going to be appreciated by the majority of tennis fans.

 

[helloworld]

Fed is far from being GOAT and it's too late for him to be one. He had 33 chances to prove himself against his chief rival and he failed miserably. Fed could be sitting at 20+ majors and several FO if only he could own his chief rival, but he didn't. He let his rival dominates him like no other greats have done in the past history. It is embarrassing that some of the fanatics have the guts to call him GOAT despite this obvious and painful reality.

 

[tennisaddict]

Fed is far from being GOAT and it's too late for him to be one. He had 33 chances to prove himself against his chief rival and he failed miserably. Fed could be sitting at 20+ majors and several FO if only he could own his chief rival, but he didn't. He let his rival dominates him like no other greats have done in the past history. It is embarrassing that some of the fanatics have the guts to call him GOAT despite this obvious and painful reality.

Watch out for the 6th YE #1.

Then the only thing left in your armor would be (a) Rafa H2H and (b) not a solo GOAT.

 

[Chico]

Watch out for the 6th YE #1.

Then the only thing left in your armor would be (a) Rafa H2H and (b) not a solo GOAT.

Undeserving, shallow, slamless, fake YE #1 that would be. Djokovic is the best player this year hands down and the only one who fully deserves to be #1. The only way for Fed to be the YE #1 is if Novak skips last two tournaments of the year due to his fist baby being born. Really not an achievement Fed and his fans should be proud of or brag about.

Anyway to answer OP. Fed is extremely over-appreciated and needs to be appreciated less.

 

[tennisaddict]

Undeserving, shallow, slamless, fake YE #1 that would be. Djokovic is the best player this year hands down and the only one who fully deserves to be #1. The only way for Fed to be the YE #1 is if Novak skips last two tournaments of the year due to his fist baby being born. Really not an achievement Fed and his fans should be proud of or brag about.

Anyway to answer OP. Fed is extremely over-appreciated and needs to be appreciated less.

Like wise Fed did not play Madrid and was MIA at Rome

 

[rodrigo_palacio88]

Undeserving, shallow, slamless, fake YE #1 that would be. Djokovic is the best player this year hands down and the only one who fully deserves to be #1. The only way for Fed to be the YE #1 is if Novak skips last two tournaments of the year due to his fist baby being born. Really not an achievement Fed and his fans should be proud of or brag about.

Anyway to answer OP. Fed is extremely over-appreciated and needs to be appreciated less.

keep crying man.

 

[tennis_pro]

Undeserving, shallow, slamless, fake YE #1 that would be. Djokovic is the best player this year hands down and the only one who fully deserves to be #1. The only way for Fed to be the YE #1 is if Novak skips last two tournaments of the year due to his fist baby being born. Really not an achievement Fed and his fans should be proud of or brag about.

Anyway to answer OP. Fed is extremely over-appreciated and needs to be appreciated less.

Djokovic can even play Valencia if he likes, Federer is taking the YE no 1 this year. Fed is taking Overratovic down if they meet again this year.

 

[dpli2010]

Undeserving, shallow, slamless, fake YE #1 that would be. Djokovic is the best player this year hands down and the only one who fully deserves to be #1. The only way for Fed to be the YE #1 is if Novak skips last two tournaments of the year due to his fist baby being born. Really not an achievement Fed and his fans should be proud of or brag about.

Anyway to answer OP. Fed is extremely over-appreciated and needs to be appreciated less.

If this is not the bitterness of Nole's semis defeat to Roger in Shanghai, then I am gonna say the appreciation of Roger's achievement at his current career stage doesn't overshadow that of Nole's...