Where does Federer's TOPSPIN backhand rank?

[Coriadropshot]

Honestly, I think it's one of the worst in the Top 100, which makes it all the more amazing that he's been able to achieve what he has.

I've seen people say Federer's backhand is a weakness. Please. It's a weakness, period. Very few touring pros want Federer's topspin backhand.

I'll admit, I haven't seen enough of all the players in the Top 100 to say for sure where it ranks, but let's just look at the Top 20 alone.

Which of these guys would you take Federer's topspin backhand over? (I'm not talking about slice - Federer obviously has a very good slice, though I'd rate a few players ahead of him there...it's the topspin backhand that is far more important in the modern game, and that's what I'm here to discuss...Federer's incredibly weak topspin backhand, which might be the least powerful ground stroke on tour):

Djokovic
Murray
Ferrer
Nadal
Berdych
Tsonga
Del Potro
Gasquet
Wawrinka
Nishikori
Cilic
Haas
Tipsarevic
Raonic
Almagro
Simon
Kohlschreiber
Querry
Monaco

Of those guys, the only ones I think Federer's is even debatable better than are Raonic and Querry. 19 players, at least 17 of them have better top spin backhands than Federer. Obviously, there are plenty more in the rest of the Top 100. I rate Federer's top spin backhand about even with Feliciano Lopez. He's in the "well below average" category.

I'm a Federer fan, but I think it's time we stop making excuses for why he always loses to Nadal. I think it's time we stop blaming it on buzzwords like "mental toughness" and "fighter" and "confidence." If Federer can't develop a quality topspin backhand relative to his peers, that's a major flaw in his game/talent level. I think it's unfortunate, because the tennis analysts like McEnroe got us fans into thinking Federer was a "perfect" player despite such an obvious weakness, and led us to believe he couldn't be beaten and, more importantly, couldn't be topped. And then a young, inexperienced Nadal threw a huge wrench in their overexcitement.

I'm not going to use that typical argument I've read all over the internet about Federer benefitting from a "weak era." The reality is, you look back at the matches then, the level was much lower all around. Guys from Federer's own generation were a step above the previous generation, as one would expect, yet they had no idea how to deal with Federer's game. He was definitely a great player relative to where tennis was at the time. You only have to expect that in a few years, the next generation will be better, and that's why Federer no longer is a Top 3 player (though I guess he's ranked there for a little while longer).

I still think it's beautiful to watch Federer float around the court and whip forehand winners, but the irony of it all is Federer is a pretty one-dimensional player in modern tennis. Maybe if he could come to net more if the courts were faster, though he clearly is no Edberg. There's a reason he has a losing record against 2 of his 3 biggest rivals, and will probably end up with a losing record against the 3rd sooner, rather than later. He's the least complete baseliner among the big 4. Sorry, it has to be said.

 

[Bobby Jr]

Honestly, I think it's one of the worst in the Top 100, which makes it all the more amazing...

I stopped reading after that utter clanger.

Off the top of my head out of the top 30 alone his topspin backhand is better on-average across the years than: Tsonga, Cilic, Haas, Raonic, Querrey, Monaco, Isner, Janowicz, Paire, Seppi, Chardy, Youzhny, Robredo. It's probably on-par with a few others also in terms of winner/error ratio and go-to-ness.

This thread wasn't even a moderately respectful attempt at a troll. Try again.

 

[tennisaddict]

Not again...Federer is a one dimensional player ?

/ thread close.

 

[smoledman]

There are only a few players combined two-handers/1-handers with a better backhand RIGHT NOW. From 2006-2007, nobody had better.

 

[Coriadropshot]

I stopped reading after that utter clanger.

Off the top of my head out of the top 30 alone his topspin backhand is better on-average across the years than: Tsonga, Cilic, Haas, Raonic, Querrey, Monaco, Isner, Janowicz, Paire, Seppi, Chardy, Youzhny, Robredo. It's probably on-par with a few others also in terms of winner/error ratio and go-to-ness.

This thread wasn't even a moderately respectful attempt at a troll. Try again.

Tsonga, maybe you could make a case for, though I give him a slight edge. Look at what happened at the French Open this year. Tsonga dominated the backhand matchup.

Haas, Youzhny, Robredo? No way on earth could you argue that. That's just being a biased fan.

I'd take Cilic's any day, and Monaco's is much more stable in rallies even if he's more of a defensive player.

 

[msc886]

Federer's topspin backhand effectiveness is not based on power (although he can blast them if he wants). It's based on him taking it early and thus taking time away from his opponents and allowing him to set up for a better shot and quite frankly it works quite effectively for that purpose.

Overall his backhand ranks quite highly among the pros and in his prime, it was something that only the Nadal forehand can break down.

 

[single_handed_champion]

Tsonga (unreliable and suspect technique) and Ferrer (does nothing with it really and makes more errors off it) probably.

Anyway, why conveniently eliminate the slice? Federer's topspin+slice kills a majority of the tour, and it is not only his backhand that has taken a hit with age, he shanks lotsa forehands too. Back in his heyday, his backhand was just fine except against Nadal on clay. Now if only he had used the same tactic against Nadal (high topspin to Nadal's BH), he would have found something interesting.

 

[NEW_BORN]

Seriously, i stopped reading after your first sentence.

 

[jxs653]

I think Federer has the most beautiful backhand, past or present..

 

[Purplemonster]

Below the other single handers such as Gasquet, Almagro & Wawrinka I can begin to comprehend but Top 100, really ???

 

[Bobby Jr]

Tsonga, maybe you could make a case for, though I give him a slight edge. Look at what happened at the French Open this year. Tsonga dominated the backhand matchup.

Haas, Youzhny, Robredo? No way on earth could you argue that. That's just being a biased fan.

Ok, so you're one of those 2 week memory type tennis fans. I get it.

I said clearly his "topspin backhand is better on-average across the year" than the players I listed. I said that because it is.

Anomaly results like the Tsonga match you mentioned or a few good matches in a row don't make a census - they just confuse partisan muppet tennis fan who then develop brainfarts they just have to share with everyone. Aptly, you demonstrate this point.

 

[Leelord337]

the OP must've never seen fed play like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWoKA21Bm4k

 

[The Bawss]

The Federer love is strong in this thread. For the record, I agree with you OP.

 

[rkelley]

Didn't Agassi say something like, "At least with Pete if you got it to his bh you'd have a chance, but Federer can hurt you off either side."

Fed's one hander looks pretty darn good to me.

 

[AlfaAce]

Troll thread. His flat backhand is one of his signatures that has made him the GOAT.

 

[Coriadropshot]

Federer's topspin backhand isn't good for a touring pro by any standard. Consistency, pace, depth, return, or hitting winners. They didn't call Federer "Baby Sampras" for nothing. Only Federer obviously doesn't have Sampras's huge serve.

 

[Coriadropshot]

Ok, so you're one of those 2 week memory type tennis fans. I get it.

I said clearly his "topspin backhand is better on-average across the year" than the players I listed. I said that because it is.

Anomaly results like the Tsonga match you mentioned or a few good matches in a row don't make a census - they just confuse partisan muppet tennis fan who then develop brainfarts they just have to share with everyone. Aptly, you demonstrate this point.

So you're getting on my case about using one match to illustrate my point, but then you make a sweeping generalization yourself based on...what? Have you watched all of these guys play every match, every season, in order to make that determination?

Obviously, that's a rhetorical question, because there's just no way you did. You wouldn't even have time to post here if you analyzed that many matches.

All I know is I watched Andy Roddick make Federer's backhand look terrible in backhand battles in that 2009 Wimbledon final. I watched Adrian Ungur destroy Federer's backhand in backhand battles at last year's French Open. The blueprint for beating Federer is to pepper his backhand. Just keep sending it there, and he's going to have problems.

 

[grandmaster]

his 1hb backhand is the best after gasquet and wawrinka, and his bankhand is comfortably in the top 10 overall.

 

[thejoe]

Honestly, I think it's one of the worst in the Top 100, which makes it all the more amazing that he's been able to achieve what he has..

You've made yourself look like a colossal idiot and discredited the rest of your post in one fell swoop.

See the guy in my avatar for just one of the many cases that prove you wrong.

 

[jones101]

Federer regularly beats Gasquet/Wawa in BH-2-BH rallies.

 

[Coriadropshot]

You've made yourself look like a colossal idiot and discredited the rest of your post in one fell swoop.

See the guy in my avatar for just one of the many cases that prove you wrong.

Did I? Name all the topspin backhands in the Top 100 below Federer's.

 

[Coriadropshot]

Here are some other guys I know have better topspin backhands than Federer, ranked in the Top 100:

Fognini
Dimitrov
Benneteau
Rosol
Melzer
Gulbis
Baghdatis
Davydenko
Fish
Stepanek
Brands
Haase
Monfils
Tomic
Tursunov
Hewitt
Falla (watch their 2010 Wimbledon match)
Mathieu
Goffin
Ungur

Then there's a guy who recently fell out of the Top 100, but would obviously rank if he were playing at the moment - Nalbandian.

 

[tennis_hack]

Here are some other guys I know have better topspin backhands than Federer, ranked in the Top 100:

Fognini
Dimitrov
Benneteau
Rosol
Melzer
Gulbis
Baghdatis
Davydenko
Fish
Stepanek
Brands
Haase
Monfils
Tomic
Tursunov
Hewitt
Falla (watch their 2010 Wimbledon match)
Mathieu
Goffin
Ungur

Then there's a guy who recently fell out of the Top 100, but would obviously rank if he were playing at the moment - Nalbandian.

Add Paire to that list. Paire and Gasquet are the only guys on tour who run around their forehands to hit a backhand.

 

[Bobby Jr]

So you're getting on my case about using one match to illustrate my point, but then you make a sweeping generalization yourself based on...what? Have you watched all of these guys play every match, every season, in order to make that determination?

Hang on, you think I'm making a sweeping generalisation based on watching hundreds of matches per year which can be compared to your generalisation based on a sample of one.

I'm not sure you understand quite how generalisations work. The greater the body of relevant knowledge, the more accurate they become. The smaller the body of knowledge, the less accurate and more open to facetious use in examples they become.

Strawman effort asking me if I have watched every match these guys played? No, I haven't - but my body of knowledge in this instance is 100-fold of more comprehensive than your sole example.

Obviously, that's a rhetorical question, because there's just no way you did. You wouldn't even have time to post here if you analyzed that many matches.

Read the above. I watch a lot of tennis and make a minds-eye assessment of form, trends which may not pass muster in a pure statistical analysis but, again, is far superior to using a sole example to make a claim.

All I know is I watched Andy Roddick make Federer's backhand look terrible in backhand battles in that 2009 Wimbledon final.

Then you will also know, if you actually follow tennis, that the primary reason Roddick was so competitive in that match was because Federer played at such an astonishing low level by his standards. He was dire for big segments of the match.

But, again - to use a perfectly penned quote for this discussion: one swallow doesn't make a summer.

 

[Wilander Fan]

Federer's peak was 7 years ago. He is a step slower and much less explosive on everything. Getting to a ball one step earlier is a huge factor...its like only getting one serve. You cant judge a ground stroke independently of movement. For instance, everyone in the top 10 has a huge FH if they have time. Federer just has less time now than he used to have.

 

[MTF07]

This is one of the worst troll threads I've seen in a long, long time.

 

[sportsfan1]

Fed does hit great winners off the topspin BH, but it's a valid question in terms of consistency and power. Several players in the top 10 have been able to get weak replies off that side.
But the problem that Nadal poses (even though he himself doesn't have a great BH) is at a whole different level as he also dominates 2HBH players like Tsonga, Berdych and even Murray. And there hasn't been any 1HBH player,. even one's that are regarded to have good topspin BHs such as Wawrinka and Gasquet, who's been able to solve that issue of high kicking topspin to the BH from Nadal. It maybe that Fed could have alleviated the bad matchup issue with a 2BBH, but it's one of those questions we will not know.

 

[tennis_hack]

Fed does hit great winners off the topspin BH, but it's a valid question in terms of consistency and power. Several players in the top 10 have been able to get weak replies off that side.
But the problem that Nadal poses is at a whole different level as he also dominates 2HBH players like Tsonga, Berdych and even Murray. And there hasn't been any 1HBH player,. even one's that are regarded to have good topspin BHs such as Wawrinka and Gasquet, who's been able to solve that issue of high kicking topspin to the BH from Nadal. It maybe that Fed could have alleviated the bad matchup issue with a 2BBH, but it's one of those questions we will not know.

Well, you gotta factor in other aspects of the game other than purely backhand. A guy like Gasquet may be comfortable trading spin with Nadal from his own backhand, but also lacks a good forehand to attack Nadal with.

And then a guy like Almagro can actually hit backhand bombs off a high Nadal forehand, yet has a useless brain, and will either ballbash or choke his way to failure.

Prime Kuerten vs prime Nadal at the French Open is a match I'd love to see. Or even prime Gaudio vs prime Nadal at the FO.

 

[Coriadropshot]

Hang on, you think I'm making a sweeping generalisation based on watching hundreds of matches per year which can be compared to your generalisation based on a sample of one.

I'm not sure you understand quite how generalisations work. The greater the body of relevant knowledge, the more accurate they become. The smaller the body of knowledge, the less accurate and more open to facetious use in examples they become.

Strawman effort asking me if I have watched every match these guys played? No, I haven't - but my body of knowledge in this instance is 100-fold of more comprehensive than your sole example.


Read the above. I watch a lot of tennis and make a minds-eye assessment of form, trends which may not pass muster in a pure statistical analysis but, again, is far superior to using a sole example to make a claim.


Then you will also know, if you actually follow tennis, that the primary reason Roddick was so competitive in that match was because Federer played at such an astonishing low level by his standards. He was dire for big segments of the match.

But, again - to use a perfectly penned quote for this discussion: one swallow doesn't make a summer.

I watch lots of matches every year myself. I was just giving examples.

I can name all sorts of matches where Federer was dominated in backhand rallies, but apparently that's not good enough. You can just talk in generalities that aren't remotely accurate and that's acceptable. Whatever.

When you break it down player by player, Federer's top spin backhand is well below average for a Top 100 player.

 

[coloskier]

The moment I saw Nadal at #4 you lost all credibility.

 

[Bobby Jr]

I watch lots of matches every year myself. I was just giving examples.

I can name all sorts of matches where Federer was dominated in backhand rallies, but apparently that's not good enough.

It would be good enough if you offered some. Some that made your earlier claims remotely more verifiable by way of a solid, compelling argument.

The specific example you gave was a very poor one regardless. You said "Tsonga dominated the backhand matchup." A cursory look at the match statistics - which admittedly don't show everything - show nothing of the sort. In fact Federer's forehand errors - 16 more than Tsonga in the match - were a much bigger factor in the match.

Backhand winners (baseline)
Tsonga 1 / Federer 1 < 0 all

Backhand forced errors (baseline)
Tsonga 7 / Federer 4 < Fed 3 ahead

Backhand unforced errors (baseline)
Tsonga 7 / Federer 7 < Fed 3 ahead

Backhand passing shots
Tsonga 4 / Federer 1 < back to even

Backhand passing shot forced errors
Tsonga 3 / Federer 1 < Fed 2 ahead

Backhand passing shot unforced errors
Tsonga 1 / Federer 0 < Fed 3 ahead in comparative backhand match-ups (excluding volleys/dropshots)

You can just talk in generalities that aren't remotely accurate and that's acceptable. Whatever.

I didn't. Mine were based on clearly a much broader and knowledgeable overview of tennis and, more than likely, an understanding of tennis developed over a much longer timeframe.

When you break it down player by player, Federer's top spin backhand is well below average for a Top 100 player.

No, it is not. I dare suggest that anyone ranked 51-100, give or take a few rare exceptions, would rather have his backhand than their current one. What you're suggesting is pure malarkey and you couldn't offer any reasonable argument to back it up if you tried. You're basing it on the likely 3 or 4 matches you've seen versus Murray or whoever where they got on top of Federer's backhand often. That does not make a census.

 

[Virginia]

OP clearly doesn't play tennis, or if he does, he doesn't understand the mechanics of the backhand properly.

 

[smoledman]

Most club players have a superior backhand to Fed who is a shank-machine off that side.

 

[abmk]

yawn, another one of NadalAgassi's avatars starting a fed-hate thread. What's new ?

 

[Coriadropshot]

The moment I saw Nadal at #4 you lost all credibility.

That wasn't an ordered ranking. I was just listing the Top 20 players so people could see them all and think about their top spin backhands.

 

[Coriadropshot]

It would be good enough if you offered some. Some that made your earlier claims remotely more verifiable by way of a solid, compelling argument.

The specific example you gave was a very poor one regardless. You said "Tsonga dominated the backhand matchup." A cursory look at the match statistics - which admittedly don't show everything - show nothing of the sort. In fact Federer's forehand errors - 16 more than Tsonga in the match - were a much bigger factor in the match.

Backhand winners (baseline)
Tsonga 1 / Federer 1 < 0 all

Backhand forced errors (baseline)
Tsonga 7 / Federer 4 < Fed 3 ahead

Backhand unforced errors (baseline)
Tsonga 7 / Federer 7 < Fed 3 ahead

Backhand passing shots
Tsonga 4 / Federer 1 < back to even

Backhand passing shot forced errors
Tsonga 3 / Federer 1 < Fed 2 ahead

Backhand passing shot unforced errors
Tsonga 1 / Federer 0 < Fed 3 ahead in comparative backhand match-ups (excluding volleys/dropshots)


I didn't. Mine were based on clearly a much broader and knowledgeable overview of tennis and, more than likely, an understanding of tennis developed over a much longer timeframe.


No, it is not. I dare suggest that anyone ranked 51-100, give or take a few rare exceptions, would rather have his backhand than their current one. What you're suggesting is pure malarkey and you couldn't offer any reasonable argument to back it up if you tried. You're basing it on the likely 3 or 4 matches you've seen versus Murray or whoever where they got on top of Federer's backhand often. That does not make a census.

How pretentious.

I notice you didn't include "short balls from the backhand that allowed the opponent to take control of the point."

Again, I'm only talking about top spin backhand. Everyone wants to mask how bad Federer's top spin backhand is by talking about his slice and thereby forming a "backhand package." The problem is, his slice doesn't do nearly enough to make up for it. It's a defensive shot only, and it only troubles certain players. Tsonga doesn't mind Federer's slice. Nor does Berdych. And obviously, not Nadal. So Federer is forced to come over the ball, and that's when he is panicked and constantly tries to run around his inferior backhand to hit his great forehand.

He made a career out of doing that. That's his playing style - screw the backhand, I'll use my footwork and get around it and hit a forehand to take control of the point. The problem is, the new generation is better at getting pace and depth to Federer's backhand so he doesn't have time.

 

[Bobby Jr]

How pretentious.

If pretentiousness is pwning you with your own match example than I take that as a win.

I notice you didn't include "short balls from the backhand that allowed the opponent to take control of the point.

I would have if they had been in the statistics package and they showed where they were being hit to (forehand, backhand or otherwise).

Again, I'm only talking about top spin backhand. Everyone wants to mask how bad Federer's top spin backhand is by talking about his slice and thereby forming a "backhand package."

Everyone does what? Show me where, in this thread that has happened?

The stats package didn't offer such detail, only broad strokes. But they were solid enough to at least completely disprove your claim that "Tsonga dominated the backhand matchup".

The problem is, his slice doesn't do nearly enough to make up for it. It's a defensive shot only, and it only troubles certain players.

You can't even stay on your own topic can you? Stop obfuscating your inability to put together a credible point.

...The problem is, the new generation is better at getting pace and depth to Federer's backhand so he doesn't have time.

It's all relative - if you can do something better to an opponent that they are trying to do to you then the net result is to your advantage. Federer doesn't seem to be getting beaten more often by the "new generation" than he was 3 years ago. And certainly not because he's got so slow he can't defend his backhand anymore.

Read more and post less Coriadrpshot. You might learn something.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

Oh the tone, the tone.

 

[Coriadropshot]

If pretentiousness is pwning you with your own match example than I take that as a win.


I would have if they had been in the statistics package and they showed where they were being hit to (forehand, backhand or otherwise).


Everyone does what? Show me where, in this thread that has happened?

The stats package didn't offer such detail, only broad strokes. But they were solid enough to at least completely disprove your claim that "Tsonga dominated the backhand matchup".


You can't even stay on your own topic can you? Stop obfuscating your inability to put together a credible point.


It's all relative - if you can do something better to an opponent that they are trying to do to you then the net result is to your advantage. Federer doesn't seem to be getting beaten more often by the "new generation" than he was 3 years ago. And certainly not because he's got so slow he can't defend his backhand anymore.

Read more and post less Coriadrpshot. You might learn something.

No, by pretentious I was referring to, "I didn't. Mine were based on clearly a much broader and knowledgeable overview of tennis and, more than likely, an understanding of tennis developed over a much longer timeframe."

The winners/errors statistic tend not to be a great measurement. First of all, unforced/forced errors are measured differently by different statisticians. Secondly, the only backhands addressed in those discussions are the ones where the points end on a backhand. That's a minority of points.

I was discussing the slice nonsense as an aside. I noted that you just said, "backhand," instead of top spin backhand when referring to Federer...a likely result of your subconscious realization that Federer's top spin backhand, by itself, is a poor shot by pro standards.

I've seen tons of people trying to mask how weak Federer's main backhand shot is by talking about his slice, dropshot, and volleys...trying to dilute everything. I wasn't talking about in this thread, but your reply seemed to be headed that direction.

 

[MTF07]

So Bobby Jr. gives us at least some statistical measures to show us in one of your examples that Federer was hardly "dominated" in the backhand exchanges with Tsonga... and you can't refute that with anything that has any validity to back up your statement.

Classic troll tactics. I'd love for you to break down every player in the top 100 and tell us why they have better topspin backhands than Federer. Go do it, troll.

FYI, a short slice to draw someone into the net where they are uncomfortable, is NOT a defensive shot. Federer's slice is often used as an attacking shot. You really don't know anything about tennis.

 

[Bobby Jr]

No, by pretentious I was referring to, "I didn't. Mine were based on clearly a much broader and knowledgeable overview of tennis and, more than likely, an understanding of tennis developed over a much longer timeframe."

It was so obvious that was the case it almost didn't warrant mentioning. I did so because you seemed so lacking in awareness of your lack of tennis knowledge.

The winners/errors statistic tend not to be a great measurement. First of all, unforced/forced errors are measured differently by different statisticians. Secondly, the only backhands addressed in those discussions are the ones where the points end on a backhand. That's a minority of points.

I never said they were, I merely offered them as some sort of measurement which was miles more comprehensive, even if still fallible, than what you'd posted.

I watched that match and your claims of Tsonga having dominance in backhand to backhand exchanges are simply not true. Well, depending what your version of dominance is. For me dominance entails at least a 2 to 1 ratio of success.

I was discussing the slice nonsense as an aside. I noted that you just said, "backhand," instead of top spin backhand when referring to Federer...a likely result of your subconscious realization that Federer's top spin backhand, by itself, is a poor shot by pro standards

Whenever I referred to his backhand I meant topspin backhand. I wasn't covertly including slice to cloud or obfuscate anything. The only situation where that may have happened is when showing the statistics which don't tell us what kind of backhand was hit. I did qualify my use of the statistics by saying they were limited - just merely some sort of statistic to additionally support the idea that you were spouting a complete load of horseshit.

I've seen tons of people trying to mask how weak Federer's main backhand shot is by talking about his slice, dropshot, and volleys...trying to dilute everything. I wasn't talking about in this thread, but your reply seemed to be headed that direction.

Nor was I. Learn to read. And, please do it before you reply with yet more of your brainfarts.

 

[Devilito]

watch 2010 Australian Open final. Fed OWNED Murray in pretty much every single backhand to backhand exchanges. So if Fed's backhand sucks, what does that say about Murray's?

 

[hawk eye]

Actually OP has a point here, but he takes things to extremes a little too much and that's what the reply's are gonna focus on, as we've seen here.
Sure Federer's TS backhand is not the best in the game in terms of power and consistency, but he can take it early and sometimes hit amazing angles with it. Taking it that early as he does also has a down side, when timing is not perfect. But not many one handers are better in that respect. Only Haas and Wawrinka come to mind here, maybe Youzhny. There are several two handers who can take it early with better consistency, though.
But there's no way his TS backhand is on the level as Feliciano Lopez. That TS backhand is definitely subpar, so thats taking things a little too far. All in all Fed's TS backhand is still an adequate shot against most opponents, but OP is right it's certainly not a strenght.

 

[MTF07]

Also, calling Federer the most one dimensional player of the top 4 is hilarious to me. Federer won a major playing serve and volley. Let's see any of other other top 4 do that.

 

[tennis_hack]

Actually OP has a point here, but he takes things to extremes a little too much and that's what the reply's are gonna focus on, as we've seen here.
Sure Federer's TS backhand is not the best in the game in terms of power and consistency, but he can take it early and sometimes hit amazing angles with it. Taking it that early as he does also has a down side, when timing is not perfect. But not many one handers are better in that respect. Only Haas and Wawrinka come to mind here, maybe Youzhny. There are several two handers who can take it early with better consistency, though.
But there's no way his TS backhand is on the level as Feliciano Lopez. That TS backhand is definitely subpar, so thats taking things a little too far. All in all Fed's TS backhand is still an adequate shot against most opponents, but OP is right it's certainly not a strenght.

I actually think only Haas is better at taking the 1hbh early. Wawrinka plays heavier spin and hits it at the peak of the bounce more (not as extreme as Gasquet's court positioning, though).

Taking the ball early is the domain of the 2hbh though, whereas heavy topspin is the domain of the 1hbh. Yet Federer's backhand is interesting because he tries to take it early AND it often has heavy spin on it, but the price to pay for trying to have the best of both worlds is less reliability. If your swing path is quite vertical and you're trying to almost half-volley most shots, the ball is only in your strike zone for a fraction of a second so you will make errors. The problem is exacerbated on clay, and, because Federer has a hitch in his technique where he starts swinging with the elbow bent, making that window where the ball is in his strike zone even smaller. And he uses a racket with a tiny head.

Ironically, I think Nadal would have been served better with a very heavy topspin 1hbh, and Federer would have been served better with a very reliable 2hbh, if he were allowed to keep his great slice and backhand volleys.

 

[FederErizeD]

Fede... one... dimen... playe...

 

[Coriadropshot]

Also, calling Federer the most one dimensional player of the top 4 is hilarious to me. Federer won a major playing serve and volley. Let's see any of other other top 4 do that.

You need to read what I said again. I said he's the most one-dimensional for the MODERN game. Serve and volley is dead. You can't do it anymore, unless it's Paris indoors in a fast year.

Federer has the worst top spin backhand of the Top 4, and the worst movement among the 4 as well. Federer is all about the forehand. Djokovic and Murray are balanced, and Nadal, though also forehand-heavy, has a much better backhand than Federer.

 

[Coriadropshot]

It was so obvious that was the case it almost didn't warrant mentioning. I did so because you seemed so lacking in awareness of your lack of tennis knowledge.


I never said they were, I merely offered them as some sort of measurement which was miles more comprehensive, even if still fallible, than what you'd posted.

I watched that match and your claims of Tsonga having dominance in backhand to backhand exchanges are simply not true. Well, depending what your version of dominance is. For me dominance entails at least a 2 to 1 ratio of success.


Whenever I referred to his backhand I meant topspin backhand. I wasn't covertly including slice to cloud or obfuscate anything. The only situation where that may have happened is when showing the statistics which don't tell us what kind of backhand was hit. I did qualify my use of the statistics by saying they were limited - just merely some sort of statistic to additionally support the idea that you were spouting a complete load of horseshit.


Nor was I. Learn to read. And, please do it before you reply with yet more of your brainfarts.

You really need to learn how to actually watch a match and analyze what you see. Federer was panicked when Tsonga hit to his backhand, constantly trying to run around it and leaving the whole court open for Tsonga's reply. That's how little confidence he had in it in the match.

And yes you did: "Everyone does what? Show me where, in this thread that has happened?" See that? You asked me to show you where in THIS thread that has happened. I wasn't referring to this thread, I was referring to on tennis forums in general. "Well, Federer's top spin backhand might not be the best (fancy way of disguising that it's actually one of the worst), but his slice, volleys, drop shots, etc. are all among the very best!" In other words, people constantly imply Federer is Fabrice Santoro with a forehand and a serve. How nice. Of course, he's not even close to being in Santoro's class when it comes to all the junk shots, but I digress.

THAT is what people constantly say, and why I made specific mention of his TOP SPIN backhand.

Let's remember, you claimed Federer's top spin backhand is better than Youzhny's. Right. That's why Youzhny was pummeling Federer in the backhand exchanges at Halle and at Wimbledon last year. But hey, that's just two matches.


MTF07 - I'd love to see you do a breakdown of the Top 100 and how Federer's forehand is better than all (or nearly all) of them. I'll bet you can't/won't do that, either. I could do a long breakdown, saying things that are all true, like "more powerful, more stable, better depth, better return of serve," and clueless people would just say, "no, I disagree." What's the point?

 

[Bobby Jr]

You really need to learn how to actually watch a match and analyze what you see.

Clown. Pure and simple. You can't even remember a match that was barely 3 weeks ago.

And yes you did: "Everyone does what? Show me where, in this thread that has happened?" See that? You asked me to show you where in THIS thread that has happened.

Bla bla bla.

I wasn't referring to this thread, I was referring to on tennis forums in general.

In the scope of this thread you were still wrong. No-one in this thread was comparing his backhand and including his slice.

Let's remember, you claimed Federer's top spin backhand is better than Youzhny's. Right. That's why Youzhny was pummeling Federer in the backhand exchanges at Halle and at Wimbledon last year. But hey, that's just two matches.

That fact that you would claim Youzhny's topspin backhand is better than Federer's and then make an example of just two matches shows the sort of muppet you are. I have said, clearly, that judging a stroke across a whole year is the only method that has any merit.

Using a sole, or two facetiously chosen matches to demonstrate your point is the domain of partisan kooks. By that moronic reasoning I could find a match that proves Federer has a getter backhand that Nadal's forehand (their 2011 WTF round robin match).

How many accounts have you had on this forum before?

 

[Coriadropshot]

Two more better backhands - Darcis, and Hanescu. Both 1=handers are better technically than Federer's.