Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
It's the Viking Way
Which is your favorite red wine?
- Thread starter Sudacafan
- Start date
Mike Bulgakov
G.O.A.T.
My assumption is that this was started by graduates from Oregon and Oregon State. It would be much better if they were from USC and Oregon State.
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Mike Bulgakov
G.O.A.T.
Buckfast: a drink with almost supernatural powers of destruction
How did a ‘tonic’ brewed by French monks in Devon get a rep as a drink for ‘neds’?
Buckfast … It tastes a bit like undiluted Ribena mixed with Benylin.
Mixing alcohol with caffeine has thrown up some illustrious drinks over the years: the Cuba Libre, the caffe corretto and the vodka Red Bull. No combination of alcohol and caffeine, however, has proved as notorious as buckfast, a drink that is credited with almost supernatural powers of destruction.
Buckfast Tonic Wine is neither very strong, at 15% alcohol, nor very cheap, at around £7 for 75cl. Nor is it really a wine, based as it is on mistella – unfermented grape juice fortified with ethanol.
It was created in the 1880s by Benedictine monks who, fleeing persecution in France, came to Buckfast Abbey in Devon. It’s changed somewhat over the years and the modern drink now contains various flavourings, preservatives and a large dose of caffeine. I’ve read claims that it’s the chemicals in buckfast – sodium glycerophosphate, dipotassium phosphate and disodium phosphate – that cause the special effects. These may somewhat contradict the folksy image the monks like to portray, but they are completely normal food additives. The drink is related to Pineau des Charentes from Gascony, and communion wine which are both made from mistella. One theory has it that buckfast was first popularised in Glasgow by Celtic fans in the 70s due to its similarity to communion wine.
Whereas in the rest of the world buckfast is drunk sedately, in Glasgow it’s become the drink of choice for “neds” – a peculiarly Scottish version of the hooligan. Because neds commit violent crimes and drink buckfast, there have been claims that the buckfast itself is responsible for crime. “The Buckie made me do it,” has become the classic defence in Glaswegian assault trials. Catherine Stihler, Labour MEP for Scotland, claimed that Buckfast “causes untold misery in communities across the country.”
We’ve been here before. The magistrate Henry Fielding, author of Tom Jones, wrote in 1751 that gin caused a “new kind of drunkenness.” More recently the tabloid press dubbed English football hooligans “lager louts” as if it was the fizzy beer that was the problem rather than that many supporters were more interested in fighting than football.
So far, the Buckfast Abbey monks have refused to take the blame for the criminal behaviour of a small minority of their customers despite much pressure from the press, politicians and the police. The monks even managed to obtain an apology from Strathclyde police after one officer told a shopkeeper to stop selling it.
It’s not an easy drink to find in England. I’ve only had it once at a party in north London. I remember it tasted a bit like undiluted Ribena mixed with Benylin.
Afterwards I glassed my best friend and went on a rampage down Crouch End Broadway screaming: “the Buckie made me do it!”
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...st-drink-with-supernatural-powers-destruction
How did a ‘tonic’ brewed by French monks in Devon get a rep as a drink for ‘neds’?
Buckfast … It tastes a bit like undiluted Ribena mixed with Benylin.
Mixing alcohol with caffeine has thrown up some illustrious drinks over the years: the Cuba Libre, the caffe corretto and the vodka Red Bull. No combination of alcohol and caffeine, however, has proved as notorious as buckfast, a drink that is credited with almost supernatural powers of destruction.
Buckfast Tonic Wine is neither very strong, at 15% alcohol, nor very cheap, at around £7 for 75cl. Nor is it really a wine, based as it is on mistella – unfermented grape juice fortified with ethanol.
It was created in the 1880s by Benedictine monks who, fleeing persecution in France, came to Buckfast Abbey in Devon. It’s changed somewhat over the years and the modern drink now contains various flavourings, preservatives and a large dose of caffeine. I’ve read claims that it’s the chemicals in buckfast – sodium glycerophosphate, dipotassium phosphate and disodium phosphate – that cause the special effects. These may somewhat contradict the folksy image the monks like to portray, but they are completely normal food additives. The drink is related to Pineau des Charentes from Gascony, and communion wine which are both made from mistella. One theory has it that buckfast was first popularised in Glasgow by Celtic fans in the 70s due to its similarity to communion wine.
Whereas in the rest of the world buckfast is drunk sedately, in Glasgow it’s become the drink of choice for “neds” – a peculiarly Scottish version of the hooligan. Because neds commit violent crimes and drink buckfast, there have been claims that the buckfast itself is responsible for crime. “The Buckie made me do it,” has become the classic defence in Glaswegian assault trials. Catherine Stihler, Labour MEP for Scotland, claimed that Buckfast “causes untold misery in communities across the country.”
We’ve been here before. The magistrate Henry Fielding, author of Tom Jones, wrote in 1751 that gin caused a “new kind of drunkenness.” More recently the tabloid press dubbed English football hooligans “lager louts” as if it was the fizzy beer that was the problem rather than that many supporters were more interested in fighting than football.
So far, the Buckfast Abbey monks have refused to take the blame for the criminal behaviour of a small minority of their customers despite much pressure from the press, politicians and the police. The monks even managed to obtain an apology from Strathclyde police after one officer told a shopkeeper to stop selling it.
It’s not an easy drink to find in England. I’ve only had it once at a party in north London. I remember it tasted a bit like undiluted Ribena mixed with Benylin.
Afterwards I glassed my best friend and went on a rampage down Crouch End Broadway screaming: “the Buckie made me do it!”
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...st-drink-with-supernatural-powers-destruction
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Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Article about Chianti, which is not a grape, but a district in Italy’s Tuscany region. Chianti is made 75% from Sangiovese grapes.
What’s the difference between a Merlot and a Chianti?
Wine Spectator's resident wine expert, Dr. Vinny, explains the difference between Sangiovese-based Chianti and Merlot.
www.winespectator.com
Vcore89
Talk Tennis Guru
Number twos are: Carménère and Petit Verdot.
Mike Bulgakov
G.O.A.T.
I’ll preface this by saying I have nothing against wine enthusiasts. My wife likes red wine and I still love her.
That being said . . . I think the wine industry is a farce. The French and English aristocracies developed a whole mythology of wine etiquette and exclusivity that leads to overpriced wine being justified by old reutations and people being told what they should like.
My first lesson on wine was in Prague, when I took a Czech girl and her two friends to a nice restaurant in 1991. I was barely twenty and knew nothing about wine, but the owner assumed I did. I was honest and told him, so he gave me recommendations and offered to teach me about wines the next day. The biggest tip was that after taking in the olfactory sensations and nuances in your mouth, it's just wine.
I'll take a recommended $20 bottle over a $200 bottle that comes with a reputation. Then again, I just don't really care for wine. Whiskey on the other hand . . .
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Not sure if this is a red or white but what a bargain!
Down The Rabbit Hole, eh?
Zara
G.O.A.T.
You're so kind and generous.
Mike Bulgakov
G.O.A.T.
Thank you.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
I should have closed the poll in 10 minutes.
Mike Bulgakov
G.O.A.T.
I think you and Zara the Catadian didn't appreciate the tongue-and-cheek nature of my post. There's a beauty to the art of wine making, with the nuances of the soil, weather, grape varieties, barrels, and other elements that go into the process. The romance of wine lies in the imagination, and wine plays a big role in cultural history. I'm just not turned on by the marketing and mythology.
I have enjoyed visting wineries and learning about wine, but I'm a big disappointment to waiters and restaurant owners who want to sell me on prestigious wines. Don't get me started with my thoughts on Cristal.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Just Too Sweet,
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Wine is not "marketing and mythology". It is a meticulously crafted artisanal product and the base price is almost always a function of what goes into it and availability. It is extremely expensive to produce wine the way the top producers do it. A barrel from a quality wood costs hundreds and sometimes thousands of euros (and the trees that can produce such are with dwindling numbers) and the biggest names change them every year. The temperature controlled wineries are huge investments. The stocks that need replanting, the whole viticultural research that the biggest names fund, the labor costs etc etc.
I am not sure I get your drift about being "turned on" by marketing and mythology: does that imply that the wine doesn't taste different enough to you to enjoy the said variety you are talking about?
Waiters and restaurant owners are a different story, but every restaurant worth its salt has a sommelier who knows better than to try to sell you the most expensive wines. If you frequent restaurants that offer mostly high-priced wines then you are in a very fine position, indeed. Unless they are some big timers gathering places they are probably some of the most educated places as far as wine offers go.
Vcore89
Talk Tennis Guru
Mac and JW, and perhaps all the other Glens and in t'weens et al. $15 will suffice for sulphites-bottomed royal rots.
Zara
G.O.A.T.
Zara the Canadian? Geez leweez.
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Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Zara is Columbian from Vancouver.
Zara
G.O.A.T.
And Sudaca is a Canadian from Columbia and 200 years old. He studied in Colombo University, Columbia and has a degree in Red Wine with very strong political views. However, he's mild mannered despite the strong views and only discuss them with his wife whom he met 150 years ago. He has 2 boys at the age of 110 and 100. They are not like the father and do not appreciate tennis but that doesn't bother him much.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Accurate in general, but not perfect. Who told you that my wife agrees with my political views?
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Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
This disclaimer is not enough for what comes after.
Mike Bulgakov
G.O.A.T.
Maybe I'm just allergic to sulfites.This disclaimer is not enough for what comes after.
Mike Bulgakov
G.O.A.T.
Mike Bulgakov
G.O.A.T.
These are all good points and I agree with them in principle. I enjoy visiting wineries and the art and science involved is amazing, but I am just as happy with a quality unheralded wine as I am with something that costs much more. For me, a great wine is more about the imagination than the actual tangible product. I understand the mindset of people who want to experience the heralded wines; I am just not one of them.Wine is not "marketing and mythology". It is a meticulously crafted artisanal product and the base price is almost always a function of what goes into it and availability. It is extremely expensive to produce wine the way the top producers do it. A barrel from a quality wood costs hundreds and sometimes thousands of euros (and the trees that can produce such are with dwindling numbers) and the biggest names change them every year. The temperature controlled wineries are huge investments. The stocks that need replanting, the whole viticultural research that the biggest names fund, the labor costs etc etc.
I am not sure I get your drift about being "turned on" by marketing and mythology: does that imply that the wine doesn't taste different enough to you to enjoy the said variety you are talking about?
Waiters and restaurant owners are a different story, but every restaurant worth its salt has a sommelier who knows better than to try to sell you the most expensive wines. If you frequent restaurants that offer mostly high-priced wines then you are in a very fine position, indeed. Unless they are some big timers gathering places they are probably some of the most educated places as far as wine offers go.
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Hnefi
Semi-Pro
I'm a huge fan of Barolo, to such an extent that probably 90% of the fine wine I've ever bought comes from that region. I've also taken a 2 week vacation to visit that region and taste/sample the wine and food. The taste and character and how it ages so well and how it develops in the bottle all just hit me like a ton of bricks.
Something notable is that because the region is so full of collaborations, you can find bottles for < 20% of the price of famous producers, that are actually made with the guidance of the legends such as Elio Altare (well, it would be Silvia these days...) for example.
Something notable is that because the region is so full of collaborations, you can find bottles for < 20% of the price of famous producers, that are actually made with the guidance of the legends such as Elio Altare (well, it would be Silvia these days...) for example.
Zara
G.O.A.T.
I didn’t. You’re assumed. I said you discuss with your wife. Didn't say your wife agrees with you. Attention to details, please.
Note to self - dementia might be setting in due to old age. Show more compassion while replying.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
I believe it's you who don't pay attention to detail. I already said in the corresponding thread that I don't discuss political views with people that don't agree with me.
If inaccuracies like this persist, I will be obliged to rescind your contract as my biographer.
Zara
G.O.A.T.
Oh so you only discuss if they agree with you? Narcipoints to you then.
And I like your wife already! I shall interview her and get more details.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
For some after first tasting Borolo its no way back!
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Truly opposite in terms of aging to the vino Novello or, in my experience in France, the Nouveaus from Beaujolais that were once decent quality before being massively overproduced due to the popularity craze of drinking the first bottles of the harvest every autumn. Definitely more patience required to enjoy Barolo.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Anyone get headaches from wine? And not cheap Muscatel
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Yes, it happens to many who drink (mainly cheap) wine like it was beer.
Mike Bulgakov
G.O.A.T.
Yes, regardless of quality.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
The sweeter the drink, higher probability of headaches.
I once indulged with Cuba Libre, and could never even smell it again.
Mike Bulgakov
G.O.A.T.
Sugar accelerates the metabolizing of alcohol. Cogeners in the alcohol are also a factor.
Biology of a Hangover: Congeners
Different types of alcohol can result in different hangover symptoms. This is because some types of alcoholic drinks have a higher concentration of congeners, byproducts of fermentation in some alcohol.
The greatest amounts of these toxins are found in red wine and dark liquors such as bourbon, brandy, whiskey and tequila. White wine and clear liquors such as rum, vodka and gin have fewer congeners and therefore cause less frequent and less severe hangovers. In one study, 33 percent of those who drank an amount of bourbon relative to their body weight reported severe hangover, compared to 3 percent of those who drank the same amount of vodka.
https://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/drugs-alcohol/hangover3.htm
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Based on personal experience, I agree with vodka in terms of little to no headaches.
Don’t agree with rum in not producing headaches, and sweet white wine, too.
Scotch should not produce headaches.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Oh, a person who appreciates wine doesn't have to drink heralded wines to be satisfied or his curiousity challenged. In fact, testing one's perceptions and understanding about wine is one of the most satisfying things in the hobby, and it only works if one is always open to try new things (which by definition are less known).
I enjoy as much as the next guy the big names, but it is because their wines are unquestionably of the highest quality, not because there is something written (or pictured) on the label. Oftentimes the occasion calls for something singularly spectacular, and then the big names provide the assurance that everything will go as planned, but for everything else there is so much variety, that it is almost a bad choice to stick to the known names.
A great wine is a great wine, mythology or not, and it is often the pairing with the food that makes it great. I had a very unknown name very recently with a hearty meal of turkey with bacon, red cabbage with apples and croquetes. The wine was a semi-dry Riesling with slightly carbonated character. The pairing was absolutely spectacular. I think that the wine cost something like 8 Euros a bottle.
Bukowski
Professional
I was deep into bar culture a few years ago and this was one of my go-to references. Great movie.
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Tennis_Hands
Banned
Tom, you can still buy quality Beaujolais, but you have to go to the Beaujolais-Villages AOC, or, even better, Cru Beaujolais like Brouilly, Chénas or Moulin à Vent.
Beaujolais Nouveau was never really a quality wine, as it needed to go out as quickly as possible and that affects the product. It is a nice tradition that the French marketing departments have pushed too far.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Talking about bars, cocktails imply the employment of a specialized bar tender, which adds to costs.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
If they canned fine wine maybe.............................nah,
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Thanks for your unwavering efforts in providing new revolutionary ideas about this subject.If they canned fine wine maybe.............................nah,
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Prob guessed I never drink wine
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
I hope some day you will. If you can contribute so much without ever having wine, I am sure you’ll be a top wine critic once you begin drinking.
Mike Bulgakov
G.O.A.T.
Aug 28, 2019
Is The Future Of Wine In The Can?
Michelle WilliamsContributor Spirits
Until recently, popping the top on an ice cold can of wine wasn’t my thing—but after being inundated with sample requests and social media recommendations, I decided to give a few canned wines a try. Much to my surprise, the quality wines I tasted thwarted my wine snobbery, prompting further investigation into this growing category.
Union Wine Company's Underwood Riesling Radler stands out for me, a combination of Riesling, hops, and grapefruit, marring canned wine packaging and craft beer. It is, “the beerification of wine,” claims Ryan Harms, Founder and Owner of Union Wine Company, a delicious, thirst-quenching refreshment on a warm sunny day, and only 3% alcohol per serving.
What began in 2003, with The Family Coppola’s debut of Sofia Blanc de Blanc Mini—a 187 milliliter can sold with a straw, received a much need boost in 2014, when Oregon’s Union Wine Company launched its canned wine label, Underwood, offering Pinot Noir and Pinot Gris in 375 milliliter cans. “We wanted to come up with a product that embodied our company’s philosophy of making great craft wine minus all the fuss,” shares Harms.
For years, canned wine was a non-category, over time it slowly moved into a fad, today it qualifies as a full-fledged wine category that continues to grow. Nielsen reports off premise canned wine sales for the 52-week period ending June 15, 2019, has risen 69% from the previous year, totaling $79.3 million in sales so far. “Suppliers, distributors, retailers, and most importantly consumers (especially younger consumers 21+), are continuing to warm up to, and accept canned wine formats. Canned wines are more prominent every day, and the data suggest this will be a long-lasting trend, not a fad,” explains Danny Brager, Nielsen Corporation.
Who Buys Canned Wine
Not surprising, Millennials make up the highest consumer base for canned wines, but Gen Xers are embracing the category as well. What is surprising is canned wines are appealing to wine lovers of all levels, and beer drinkers too. Underwood’s consumer ranges from novice to oenophile to beer lover who seeks a portable way to bring wine outdoors or on the go, but also for those who want to a glass without committing to a bottle, 375 milliliters equates roughly to 2.5 glasses of wine.
Future of Canned Wine
Although the future of this category is bright, it is marred by legislative uncertainty. Mike Veseth, The Wine Economist, notes the practicalities of this growing segment, “Some consumers see the conventional 750 milliliter bottles as too big a commitment, it’s not a surprise premium box and cans are growing quickly.” As younger consumers seek to include alcohol into their lifestyles Veseth recognizes the benefits of options, “With cans there is no need for everyone to share the same beverage—some can enjoy red, others white, or a beer, cider, spritzer, etc. Plus, the smaller size fits with the lower alcohol lifestyle, and are more efficiently recycled in some areas.”
The future uncertainty comes via the Federal Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) size restrictions. Beer and malt beverages have no restrictions as to the size of the container or individual sales. Canned wine, however, is currently restricted to either 187ml, 250ml, 375ml, or 500ml cans, with 187ml and 250ml only sold in multiples. Texas Tech University’s Texas Wine Marketing Research Institute published in its report, “Growth Of The Wine-In-A-Can Market,” a consumer desire for 187ml and 250ml to be available in single-serving cans. The TTB is considering revising its “Standards of Fill” code to expand canned wine size options. This will benefit consumers, likely increase sales, and lead to more headaches and paper work for producers.
Veseth recognizes two important advantages to the 250ml size can—“It is closer to a single serving size, and they are roughly equivalent to craft beer in cans in terms of alcohol percentage,” adding, “Since wine has a higher alcohol percentage, it needs a smaller container to have equivalent alcohol.” Studies indicate younger consumers are sensitive to alcohol percentages, if smaller cans of wine are approved for individual purchase by the TTB the strength of this category will continue to grow.
As for me, I am a canned wine convert. Of course, quality matters so I will proceed with caution, heeding what Brundrett shares regarding Sway, “We’re competing with wines made from concentrate, with added sugar, and spritzers with added ever clear and flavoring.” While I will do my diligence to insure quality, there is a place for canned wine in my active lifestyle and at my table.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michel...s-the-future-of-wine-in-the-can/#5d5e4a386cc3
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Please stop shocking me with these news.
Aug 28, 2019
Is The Future Of Wine In The Can?
Michelle WilliamsContributor Spirits
Until recently, popping the top on an ice cold can of wine wasn’t my thing—but after being inundated with sample requests and social media recommendations, I decided to give a few canned wines a try. Much to my surprise, the quality wines I tasted thwarted my wine snobbery, prompting further investigation into this growing category.
Union Wine Company's Underwood Riesling Radler stands out for me, a combination of Riesling, hops, and grapefruit, marring canned wine packaging and craft beer. It is, “the beerification of wine,” claims Ryan Harms, Founder and Owner of Union Wine Company, a delicious, thirst-quenching refreshment on a warm sunny day, and only 3% alcohol per serving.
What began in 2003, with The Family Coppola’s debut of Sofia Blanc de Blanc Mini—a 187 milliliter can sold with a straw, received a much need boost in 2014, when Oregon’s Union Wine Company launched its canned wine label, Underwood, offering Pinot Noir and Pinot Gris in 375 milliliter cans. “We wanted to come up with a product that embodied our company’s philosophy of making great craft wine minus all the fuss,” shares Harms.
For years, canned wine was a non-category, over time it slowly moved into a fad, today it qualifies as a full-fledged wine category that continues to grow. Nielsen reports off premise canned wine sales for the 52-week period ending June 15, 2019, has risen 69% from the previous year, totaling $79.3 million in sales so far. “Suppliers, distributors, retailers, and most importantly consumers (especially younger consumers 21+), are continuing to warm up to, and accept canned wine formats. Canned wines are more prominent every day, and the data suggest this will be a long-lasting trend, not a fad,” explains Danny Brager, Nielsen Corporation.
Who Buys Canned Wine
Not surprising, Millennials make up the highest consumer base for canned wines, but Gen Xers are embracing the category as well. What is surprising is canned wines are appealing to wine lovers of all levels, and beer drinkers too. Underwood’s consumer ranges from novice to oenophile to beer lover who seeks a portable way to bring wine outdoors or on the go, but also for those who want to a glass without committing to a bottle, 375 milliliters equates roughly to 2.5 glasses of wine.
Future of Canned Wine
Although the future of this category is bright, it is marred by legislative uncertainty. Mike Veseth, The Wine Economist, notes the practicalities of this growing segment, “Some consumers see the conventional 750 milliliter bottles as too big a commitment, it’s not a surprise premium box and cans are growing quickly.” As younger consumers seek to include alcohol into their lifestyles Veseth recognizes the benefits of options, “With cans there is no need for everyone to share the same beverage—some can enjoy red, others white, or a beer, cider, spritzer, etc. Plus, the smaller size fits with the lower alcohol lifestyle, and are more efficiently recycled in some areas.”
The future uncertainty comes via the Federal Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) size restrictions. Beer and malt beverages have no restrictions as to the size of the container or individual sales. Canned wine, however, is currently restricted to either 187ml, 250ml, 375ml, or 500ml cans, with 187ml and 250ml only sold in multiples. Texas Tech University’s Texas Wine Marketing Research Institute published in its report, “Growth Of The Wine-In-A-Can Market,” a consumer desire for 187ml and 250ml to be available in single-serving cans. The TTB is considering revising its “Standards of Fill” code to expand canned wine size options. This will benefit consumers, likely increase sales, and lead to more headaches and paper work for producers.
Veseth recognizes two important advantages to the 250ml size can—“It is closer to a single serving size, and they are roughly equivalent to craft beer in cans in terms of alcohol percentage,” adding, “Since wine has a higher alcohol percentage, it needs a smaller container to have equivalent alcohol.” Studies indicate younger consumers are sensitive to alcohol percentages, if smaller cans of wine are approved for individual purchase by the TTB the strength of this category will continue to grow.
As for me, I am a canned wine convert. Of course, quality matters so I will proceed with caution, heeding what Brundrett shares regarding Sway, “We’re competing with wines made from concentrate, with added sugar, and spritzers with added ever clear and flavoring.” While I will do my diligence to insure quality, there is a place for canned wine in my active lifestyle and at my table.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michel...s-the-future-of-wine-in-the-can/#5d5e4a386cc3
Even for beers, they taste better in bottle than in cans.
There are also wine bottles of 375 ml if need be.
Mike Bulgakov
G.O.A.T.
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