Who is more talented: Berdych or Wawrinka?

[tennis_hack]

When you hear of people with 'natural talent' and who strike the ball with 'effortless power', Berdych's name will always come up, never Wawrinka's...

However, Wawrinka has a Slam where Berdych doesn't (admittedly, Berdych was not playing an injured opponent in the final), and Wawrinka also leads the H2H between the two 8-5.

I always thought Berdych was quite 1-dimensional...

Who do you think is more talented?

 

[kishnabe]

Berdych only knows how to slap the ball.

Wawrinka can slap the ball, slice the ball, and volley!

 

[President]

They are quite similar players IMO, both are very strong on both wings. Berdych is probably a bit more "solid" than Wawrinka from the baseline (though Stan is very stable and powerful as well) and might serve a tad better, but Stan's far superior movement and variety gives him more potential upside than Berdych IMO.

 

[TTMR]

They're pretty much even as their careers up to January 2014 will attest. However, 90% of people will declare for Wawrinka due to bandwagon effect.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

They're pretty much even as their careers up to January 2014 will attest. However, 90% of people will declare for Wawrinka due to bandwagon effect.

Berdych has actually been consistently at the top for longer. Truth be told the Berd it probably the overall better tennis player.

 

[Ash_Smith]

Define talent, then you'll get to an answer!

 

[underground]

Berdych chokes, Stan doesn't.

 

[Backspin1183]

Berdych's a better tennis player and far more consistent than Stan the man of Switzerland.

 

[mike danny]

Berdych can only smack the ball. Wawrinka has better variety and better movement

 

[anantak2k]

Berdych has no brain (or a really small one)... maybe if he did, he would be better.

 

[TheMusicLover]

All the talent in the world won't help Berdych, unless he finally finds a way to get his head screwed on properly.

Wawa has a GS trophy in his closet, Berdych hasn't - very telling.

 

[SoCalJay]

If talent is defined as being able to hang out in the top 10 for a long time because you can consistently beat people ranked below you but you aren't a threat for the top guys, I'd vote Berdych.

If talent is defined as having the game to beat the top guys when you're playing well without regard for consistency issues from tournament to tournament (or year to year), I'd vote Wawrinka.

 

[monfed]

I'd have to give it to Berdych due to the effortless power he generates from his FH. But then Stan has his 1HBH so IDK, it's VERY close.

 

[fuzzy yellow balls]

have to go with Stan, moves better and Berdych looks like a robot at times.

 

[Anaconda]

If talent is defined as being able to hang out in the top 10 for a long time because you can consistently beat people ranked below you but you aren't a threat for the top guys, I'd vote Berdych.

If talent is defined as having the game to beat the top guys when you're playing well without regard for consistency issues from tournament to tournament (or year to year), I'd vote Wawrinka.

Both of your definitions are wrong. Talent is what you have naturally. Berdych is probably more talented than Stan, from a young age, Berdych has always been better than Wawrinka. Wawrinka on the other hand has progressed as time has gone by and has added things to his game. Berdych hasn't.




BTW, mentality is not technical ability; It's like saying Hewitt has more talent than Safin because he was naturally a bigger fighter and more stable mentally.

 

[captainbryce]

They are similar in some ways, but Wawrenka is a better defensive player, has more variety and touch, and employs better strategy in my opinion. Berdych hardly ever changes the pace and he's rather one-dimensional compared to Wawrenka. That most likely explains his superior head to head record.

 

[AM95]

Who has more slams?

 

[Tenez101]

Berdych is a one-dimensional ballbasher. Stan has variety and an all-time great backhand.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Both of your definitions are wrong. Talent is what you have naturally. Berdych is probably more talented than Stan, from a young age, Berdych has always been better than Wawrinka. Wawrinka on the other hand has progressed as time has gone by and has added things to his game. Berdych hasn't.




BTW, mentality is not technical ability; It's like saying Hewitt has more talent than Safin because he was naturally a bigger fighter and more stable mentally.

In some aspects Hewitt does have more talent than Safin. I would take his lobs over Safin's any day of the week. Better speed and ROS, a more consistent yet less powerful (but about as effective) backhand, equal at the net, ect. The one huge edge Safin has is his serve and forehand, both very hard shots to get away with winning.

 

[tacou]

This is a somewhat poorly timed thread, Stan obviously has more talent...he just won a slam.

Even on the ambiguous, "raw talent" scale, I think Stan's pretty backhand and aggressive ground game wins out over Tomas' stiff power.

Still, up until last half of 2013 I think most people would've sided with the bird

 

[poofytail]

Wawrinka of course. Berdych has nothing but his power. Wawrinka has every bit as much power, if not even more, and a far more complete game.

 

[poofytail]

Both of your definitions are wrong. Talent is what you have naturally. Berdych is probably more talented than Stan, from a young age, Berdych has always been better than Wawrinka.

If how quickly you become good is what defines your talent then Capriati and Hingis would be the most talented female players since Connolly, and Gasquet would be more talented than Djokovic. Some people just develop their talent faster (usually ones with one dimensional games that are simple to develop like Berdych), or their entire base of talent they are even going to get naturally, comes faster. Berdych we more or less already saw all he had to offer in 2005.

 

[Sid_Vicious]

I'd have to give it to Berdych due to the effortless power he generates from his FH.

If how effortlessly one can generate power on the forehand is a criteria for talent, then forget Wawrinka, Berdych is probably more talented than Federer, Nadal, Murray and Djokovic. :shock: None of those guys can generate the pace Berdych does as casually as he does.

 

[tennis_pro]

This is a somewhat poorly timed thread, Stan obviously has more talent...he just won a slam.

Even on the ambiguous, "raw talent" scale, I think Stan's pretty backhand and aggressive ground game wins out over Tomas' stiff power.

Still, up until last half of 2013 I think most people would've sided with the bird

Wawrinka gains more talent as he wins more.

 

[Egoista]

Stan is the man both are mentally weak

stan marginally better in that regard

 

[tennis_hack]

If how effortlessly one can generate power on the forehand is a criteria for talent, then forget Wawrinka, Berdych is probably more talented than Federer, Nadal, Murray and Djokovic. :shock: None of those guys can generate the pace Berdych does as casually as he does.

Berdych only generates pace because he forgets to put topspin on his forehand, therefore he swing slower for any given ball speed. But it means his shot is not heavy, does not push people back and can be easily directed if he doesn't hit a risky winner

 

[tennisaddict]

Berdych may not have got titles in 2013, but he is turning into a Davis Cup Legend.

Two consecutive Davis cup playing alongside a 34 year old and on the way to a third.

 

[moonballs]

Stan is more talented. He used to have a choking problem but now with a slam under his belt he probably will leave Berdych in the dust. The straight set SF will be what is more to come in the future.

 

[mental midget]

berdych was a minor tennis prodigy, coming on the scene at a young age and having some success right away, correct? stan's path was a bit more traditional. pretty sure the words 'natural talent' have historically been applied more often to tomas than to stan.

fast-forward to today, though, and stan is the better player, for three main reasons imo, two physical, one mental:

- hits with almost the same amount of power, but far greater margin;
- moves better;
- has turned the corner mentally in a big way

 

[ricki]

FH - Berdych
BH - Slamrinka but its pretty close as he hits it that good only on slower courts
Serve - Slamrinka (Berdych has pathetic 2nd serve)
Defensive game - Slamrinka (not by muchoz - both suck under pressure)
Overall "game iq" - Slamrinka

 

[PhrygianDominant]

Berdych only generates pace because he forgets to put topspin on his forehand, therefore he swing slower for any given ball speed. But it means his shot is not heavy, does not push people back and can be easily directed if he doesn't hit a risky winner

yeah. I always thought Berdych played a one dimensional big man's game. Big first serve and flat hitting. If that doesn't work.....*shrugs

 

[rdis10093]

they just played each other and it was a super close match.

 

[PhrygianDominant]

they just played each other and it was a super close match.

True, I watched it. Berdych did a few things better than usual if I remember correctly.

1) He hit a lot of first serves

2) He played well at net.

As per #2, I remember Berdych trying very hard to volley against Djokovic at the AO (last year?....not sure) and almost pulling it off. This year against Iron Stan it was a lot better. If he were to improve this it would be really good for his game

As per #1, it clearly shows a huge weakness in Stan's game...return of serve. Almost any other top ten player would punish Berdych's weak second serve and get more 1st serve returns into play. It would have completely changed the match. Stan really has to work on that if he wants to remain in the top ten and build on his success.....


my 2 cents

 

[SLD76]

alot of people cant read. I keep seeing phrases like "better defender, better movement" in answers.

the question wasnt 'who is the better player'?

the question was 'who has the most talent'?

Me personally, i think they are even talent wise, but stan improved his fitness which in turn improved his power and movement. And he improved his mentality which is why he is a slam champion and Birdman isnt.

 

[RF20Lennon]

Wawrinka can do more so Wawrinka!

 

[SLD76]

If how quickly you become good is what defines your talent then Capriati and Hingis would be the most talented female players since Connolly, and Gasquet would be more talented than Djokovic. Some people just develop their talent faster (usually ones with one dimensional games that are simple to develop like Berdych), or their entire base of talent they are even going to get naturally, comes faster. Berdych we more or less already saw all he had to offer in 2005.

the irony of a nadal fan saying this, is staggering lol

but you are right. Think of roddick, he was fairly successful early as well and his game wasnt much more complex than hit big serve, hit big fh. rinse repeat.

also, it seems like guys whose games are based on grinding and retrieving (chang, hewitt, nadal) see success quicker than guys who have agressive offensive games. (sampras, fed, )

That said, fed did win a slam at 19, but it would be 2 more years before he would dominate. Of course, one could argue that 1993...the year he started to dominate was also the year where by many of the previous generation were either long in the tooth, or near the end of their careers..but thats a debate for another day.

 

[albatros_forehand]

Berdych only generates pace because he forgets to put topspin on his forehand, therefore he swing slower for any given ball speed. But it means his shot is not heavy, does not push people back and can be easily directed if he doesn't hit a risky winner

Can you believe this guy? Berdych's shots are not heavy? Either you are an idiot or blind (then I am sorry you believe what ur dad's telling you.)

 

[Sid_Vicious]

Berdych only generates pace because he forgets to put topspin on his forehand, therefore he swing slower for any given ball speed. But it means his shot is not heavy, does not push people back and can be easily directed if he doesn't hit a risky winner

LOL. That is such an oversimplification its hilarious. It's like saying Federer can't hit more topspin than Djokovic because Federer hits with an eastern grip.

Berdych's forehand is a filthy shot and sometimes his opponents can be seen rallying from 10 feet behind the baseline trying to handle his pace. Watch Berdych's performance against Nadal at AO 2012 and Federer at USO 2012 and take a look at Federer and Nadal's court positioning. Especially Nadal, he was playing from behind the Melbourne sign. To his credit, his movement was so insane that towards the end of the match he was getting a racquet on everything.

 

[Sid_Vicious]

Berdych only generates pace because he forgets to put topspin on his forehand, therefore he swing slower for any given ball speed. But it means his shot is not heavy, does not push people back and can be easily directed if he doesn't hit a risky winner

LOL, c'mon. That is an oversimplification. It's like saying Federer can't hit more topspin than Djokovic because Federer hits with an eastern grip.

Berdych's forehand is a filthy shot and sometimes his opponents can be seen rallying from 10 feet behind the baseline trying to handle his pace. Watch Berdych's performance against Nadal at AO 2012 and Federer at USO 2012 and take a look at Federer and Nadal's court positioning. Especially Nadal, he was playing from behind the Melbourne sign. To his credit, his movement was so insane that towards the end of the match he was getting a racquet on everything.

 

[Crisstti]

All the talent in the world won't help Berdych, unless he finally finds a way to get his head screwed on properly.

Wawa has a GS trophy in his closet, Berdych hasn't - very telling.

Berd would probably have one if he had played an injured opponent in his final...

 

[Breaker]

If talent is defined as being able to hang out in the top 10 for a long time because you can consistently beat people ranked below you but you aren't a threat for the top guys, I'd vote Berdych.

If talent is defined as having the game to beat the top guys when you're playing well without regard for consistency issues from tournament to tournament (or year to year), I'd vote Wawrinka.

Wawrinka isn't any more a threat to the top guys than Berd..until last week he couldn't touch Nadal and has an atrocious record against Fed. Berd similarly has bad record vs Nadal now but has beaten every other top guy in recent memory.

 

[abmk]

Berd would probably have one if he had played an injured opponent in his final...

he would definitely not be in a position to be a set and break up vs an uninjured nadal , who also happens to be his newfound hero btw .

and what is blindingly obvious except to those who want to miss it, stan did beat him in the semi ....

 

[TMF]

Berd would probably have one if he had played an injured opponent in his final...

Wawrinka beat Nole and Nadal, which Berdych can only dream of. I don't care what Nadal and his fans have excuses for the loss, but Stan was a better player than him.

 

[Sid_Vicious]

Wawrinka isn't any more a threat to the top guys than Berd..until last week he couldn't touch Nadal and has an atrocious record against Fed. Berd similarly has bad record vs Nadal now but has beaten every other top guy in recent memory.

The only big 4 player Berdych seems to be able to defeat in a slam is Federer and that mostly happened starting 2010.

He did straight set Djokovic at Wimbledon 2010, but those were the days when Djokovic was a headcase and had no idea of his actual worth. Let's see how Wawrinka does moving forward. Even though people talked highly about his 2013 season, his only two highlights were AO and USO. The rest of the year he was very up and down; he lost to badly to guys who weren't even top players. Hopefully 2014 is different.

 

[Chopin]

Wawrinka beat Nole and Nadal, which Berdych can only dream of. I don't care what Nadal and his fans have excuses for the loss, but Stan was a better player than him.

Let's not forget that Berdych is a Wimbledon finalist and has beaten Federer in big matches, TMF. The big difference between the two players is that Berdych is mentally weaker than Wawrinka by a long shot. Berdych gave a poor performance against Nadal in the Wimbledon finals in 2010 (how does a guy with a big game like that not win a set?).

In fact, if you look at the Berdych-Nadal head to head, you can see that Thomas has pushed Rafa in many matches (lots of tiebreak and 7-5 first sets), but he doesn't have the belief that he can do it in the same way that Wawrinka did. Wawrinka went into that final unintimidated by Nadal.

p.s. Good to see you

 

[Paul Murphy]

I'll watch Stan over Berdy any day - there's something about the big man's game I just can't warm to.

 

[sbengte]

I wonder what Berdych (and also Tsonga, Ferrer) must be thinking now that Stan did what they couldn't as first time slam finalists.

Berdych had the worst mentality of the lot, he said things like he believes slams are for the big 4 .This coming from someone who has been fairly consistent in remaining top 8 or so for the past several years. You shouldn't even bother showing up at a slam if that is how you think.

I think he did all that weird fanboying on twitter just to convince himself that Nadal is unbeatable and that there is no way he could have had a better record against him. I hope Stan's achievement made him rethink all his beliefs.

 

[GoudX]

I wonder what Berdych (and also Tsonga, Ferrer) must be thinking now that Stan did what they couldn't as first time slam finalists.

Berdych had the worst mentality of the lot, he said things like he believes slams are for the big 4 .This coming from someone who has been fairly consistent in remaining top 8 or so for the past several years. You shouldn't even bother showing up at a slam if that is how you think.

I think he did all that weird fanboying on twitter just to convince himself that Nadal is unbeatable and that there is no way he could have had a better record against him. I hope Stan's achievement made him rethink all his beliefs.

In accepting that Nadal and Djokovic are the better playesr and more likely to win, I think Wawrinka freed himself from the pressure of his expectations - which lets him play at his full potential, ironically allowing him to play well enough to win.

Berdych, and a lot of players in the top 100, is close enough to realise that with a few minor tweaks to their game they could be the top dog - which puts a huge amount of pressure on them to succeed. It's because of this that players often succeed in their teens, or towards the end of their career. They either need to be naive enough to still believe that they are unstoppable (Del Potro, Becker, Chang) and blast/spint their way to a grand slam, or they need to be experienced enough to know how to get the best from their game (Wawrinka, Murray).

If Berdych can get a more 'zen' mentality he may be able to withstand the mental pressure.