Why has Nadal been so unbeatable at RG?

[Terry Tibbs]

Ok so I kind of know the answer. The slower clay surface allows him to construct points and t up the forehand amongst other reasons. But I still can't really comprehend it all. It's the same players playing with the same racquets and balls. Only the surface is different. Why has it made so much difference? I mean only 2 defeats in 100 matches. Come on!

There are other super slow surfaces on the tour which he hasn't dominated. I mean 13 wins is just beyond belief and really, GOAT debate aside, of all the stats and achievements out there, slam count, weeks at No 1 etc, in isolation, winning 1 slam 13 times arguably tops them all.

When people say 'That record will never be beaten' when referring to a particular sporting achievement, I will always argue that regardless of how good the record is somebody at some point in time will come along and beat the record as its just the way it is. Records get beaten eventually.

For example, somebody will beat Usain Bolt's 100m record. It may not happen in the next 10, 20 or even 100 yrs but eventually it will happen. However in the case of Nadal and the French Open even I struggle to make the same argument purely because I'm not sure how it's physically possible and I don't think Rafa is finished either. He could win at least another 2.

I suppose there have been 3 yrs when he has not won it so maybe somebody could come along and win it every single year from the age of 18 to 38 and win 20? Highly unlikely though surely.

The longer Nadal keeps winning it the more Robin Soderling's legend grows as being one of only 2 players to beat him there, the other of course being an ATG. Players should study that match to see exactly what game plan Soderling used.

So I think regardless of who's corner you are in in terms of fans, I think everyone should appreciate what Nadal has done. Genuinely one of the greatest sporting achievements.

 

[Rabin]

It's all about that

Kid: Rafa
Cat: Remainder of the field

 

[mike danny]

His FH is just too much for anyone to handle on this surface. No one has figured out a way around it.

It has so much spin and Rafa commits so few UE with it thst you have to win the points yourself and that results in UE.

Plus, his movement is so good on this surface that it's impossible to catch him off guard.

Also, Chatrier is so big and Rafa has so much space to defend tgat it's impossible to hit winners past him.

 

[BumElbow]

Nadal's mastery of spin is the main reason for his success on the red clay. He uses it to drop shot, hit angles, hit biting slice, wicked sidespin and kicking offensive topspin, hit through the ball with power and hit high bouncing spin (with pace!) putting the ball way outside of his opponent's strike zone. Also, he has the strategy to set up points (e.g., opening the court with his slice serve wide) and the patience to wait for an opponent's error. There is also his combination of defense and offense and the fact that he never gives up on a point. Playing left-handed (when he is a natural right-hander!) helps a lot. In addition to his tough as nails mental approach, physically Nadal is big and strong and having (or squeezing into) those small shoes really help with speed and changing direction. On a tennis court, Nadal is a human machine engineered with so many weapons - a lethal combination of shots, strategy and mental/physical toughness - that trying to outplay him is practically futile.

 

[The Blond Blur]

He moves better than anyone in tennis history on clay. His speed as declined significantly from his prime. But he more than makes up for that by his court awareness, anticipation, and sliding better than anyone in the game.

His Fearhand is the best on this surface. The amount of margin of error he has with the topspin he generates makes it so hard to break down his game. He's an aggressive defender, he can take your best shot and then up the ante in one shot. Most points end in an error whether forced or unforced. RAFA is able to keep his errors to a minimum while being able to switch from defense to offense in an instant.

The serve is a less dominate shot on clay, so you're not going to win a lot of cheap points off of it. Add in the fact that RAFA has one of the best ROS in tennis history and that's a recipe for success. Joker has one of the best serves in the game currently, and he's lost 3 matches (2 at RG) on a DF to RAFA. He puts even great servers under so much pressure that they feel they have to go for more on the serve. In the biggest moments this leads to more DFs. Even in this most recent match, Joker was broken in his last service game with a DF.

His mental toughness and ability to focus better than anyone means his level very rarely drops. He's not going to beat himself by going on mental walkabouts like Joker and Ol' Rog.

Topspin to the back hand, no?

The guy is just made to be the best on clay

 

[StrongRule]

He is not unbeatable, but somehow he finds his form in the late rounds. By the way, I still stand by my point that he is very lucky that Zverev didn't reach the 1/4 finals. With the level Nadal showed in this round he would have been destroyed, especially given that it was so late. However, in the final he SUDDENLY entered god-mode.

 

[Sabrina]

He is not unbeatable, but somehow he finds his form in the late rounds. By the way, I still stand by my point that he is very lucky that Zverev didn't reach the 1/4 finals. With the level Nadal showed in this round he would have been destroyed, especially given that it was so late. However, in the final he SUDDENLY entered god-mode.

Nadal's level yesterday (especially the first 2 set) could be comparable to his 2017 form. How he managed to do that, I don't know.

 

[Tennisbg]

He is not unbeatable, but somehow he finds his form in the late rounds. By the way, I still stand by my point that he is very lucky that Zverev didn't reach the 1/4 finals. With the level Nadal showed in this round he would have been destroyed, especially given that it was so late. However, in the final he SUDDENLY entered god-mode.

I am sure you are trolling.

 

[The Blond Blur]

He is not unbeatable, but somehow he finds his form in the late rounds. By the way, I still stand by my point that he is very lucky that Zverev didn't reach the 1/4 finals. With the level Nadal showed in this round he would have been destroyed, especially given that it was so late. However, in the final he SUDDENLY entered god-mode.

I know it's you Stronkrool, but you can't be serious Zverev?! Freaking Zverev?! The guy who got destroyed by The Sinner (who RAFA straight setted)?! The guy who just choked a 2-0 to Timmy at the USO? The guy who skipped Rome so he had even less match play on clay than the rest of the tour? The guy who leads the ATP with DFs? That Zverev? He would have been triple bagled

 

[BumElbow]

Nadal's level yesterday (especially the first 2 set) could be comparable to his 2017 form. How he managed to do that, I don't know.

Nadal had been mentally and physically preparing for his final match showdown with Djokovic for the entire tournament. He was psyched up for it when he walked on the court for every match. Nadal had cruised in the previous rounds and had more left in the tank than Djokovic. Further, Nadal was prepared to suffer in the final to achieve his goal. And, his wake-up call loss to Schwartzman in Rome made him even more determined.

 

[JoshuaPim]

Federer demolished him 6-1 in the first set of the '06 final and he was completely clueless. But Fed, being a bit of a mental midget on clay, lost concentration and couldn't finish off the job. But he had the skill set to defeat Nadal consistently on clay, if the mentality had matched. Maybe the better for tennis that it didn't.

Btw even the Soderling defeat has an asterisk in that he didn't play for the rest of the season. And in 2015 he was just off. So you could argue he was never 'properly' defeated at RG.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

He is not unbeatable, but somehow he finds his form in the late rounds. By the way, I still stand by my point that he is very lucky that Zverev didn't reach the 1/4 finals. With the level Nadal showed in this round he would have been destroyed, especially given that it was so late. However, in the final he SUDDENLY entered god-mode.

 

[StrongRule]

I am sure you are trolling.

I know it's you Stronkrool, but you can't be serious Zverev?! Freaking Zverev?! The guy who got destroyed by The Sinner (who RAFA straight setted)?! The guy who just choked a 2-0 to Timmy at the USO? The guy who skipped Rome so he had even less match play on clay than the rest of the tour? The guy who leads the ATP with DFs? That Zverev? He would have been triple bagled

I'm tired of repeating what I already wrote like 20 times. Zverev is a very difficult matchup for Nadal. People are looking just at the head to head, but fact is, Nadal had to work extremely hard to win 3 out of the 5 matches he won. I said that before their WTF meeting last year, and everyone laughed at me. What happened? Right, Zverev won 6-2 6-4. And just as I predicted, Medvedev and Tsitsipas were easier opponents for Nadal.

The 1/4 final was played late at night and Nadal was playing extremely bad in the first 2 sets. (he was also feeling uncomfortable because he had to play so late) He won them only because Sinner choked. I'm not sure what he could possibly do against Zverev's powerful baseline game with this form and in these conditions.

 

[The Blond Blur]

I'm tired of repeating what I already wrote like 20 times. Zverev is a very difficult matchup for Nadal. People are looking just at the head to head, but fact is, Nadal had to work extremely hard to win 3 out of the 5 matches he won. I said that before their WTF meeting last year, and everyone laughed at me. What happened? Right, Zverev won 6-2 6-4. And just as I predicted, Medvedev and Tsitsipas were easier opponents for Nadal.

The 1/4 final was played late at night and Nadal was playing extremely bad in the first 2 sets. He won them only because Sinner choked. I'm not sure what he could possibly do against Zverev's powerful baseline game with this form and in these conditions.

And we're tired of reading your non-stop handwringing BS. In their 6 matches, Zverev has won exactly one time against RAFA. And that was on an indoor HC, RAFA's worst playing conditions. You're the guy who's wrong 99% of the time, and when you're right that 1% you're like see I was right! It's beyond annoying at this point.

RAFA didn't start out playing well, but Zverev would have been even worse. His form was absolute crap and he got exposed by The Sinner who is a already on par in playing ability with him. The Sinner was always going to be a tougher match up. It's so funny that you think Zverev would have beaten let alone challenged RAFA "with his powerfeul baseline game" when The Sinner hits even harder than he does

 

[StrongRule]

And we're tired of reading your non-stop handwringing BS. In their 6 matches, Zverev has won exactly one time against RAFA. And that was on an indoor HC, RAFA's worst playing conditions. You're the guy who's wrong 99% of the time, and when you're right that 1% you're like see I was right! It's beyond annoying at this point.

RAFA didn't start out playing well, but Zverev would have been even worse. His form was absolute crap and he got exposed by The Sinner who is a already on par in playing ability with him. The Sinner was always going to be a tougher match up. It's so funny that you think Zverev would have beaten let alone challenged RAFA "with his powerfeul baseline game" when The Sinner hits even harder than he does

Thanks for proving my point once again. You just look at the head to head. You think Zverev was an easy opponent in IW 2016 when he had a matchpoint on serve and missed an easy volley on it? Or in AO 2017 third round, which was 4 hours of VERY physical tennis, with Nadal being forced to fight hard for every point? Or in Rome 2018 when Zverev won a set 6-1 and was 3-1 up in the deciding set? (again, Nadal had to fight for almost every point)

Zverev might play bad, but he ups his game against top players. I have no idea why people keep underrating him when he won 3 masters titles, and also won WTF by beating a very in-form Djokovic. (who wasn't even broken once on his way to the final). He also upped his game in USO final, though he ended up choking. Yes, I think if Nadal played against him like he did against Sinner he could be in big trouble.

 

[Gazelle]

He is not unbeatable, but somehow he finds his form in the late rounds. By the way, I still stand by my point that he is very lucky that Zverev didn't reach the 1/4 finals. With the level Nadal showed in this round he would have been destroyed, especially given that it was so late. However, in the final he SUDDENLY entered god-mode.

If Nadal had played Zverev, he would have found his top form one round sooner.

 

[The Blond Blur]

RAFA might play bad, but he ups his game against top players. I have no idea why StronkRool keeps underrating him when he won 13 RGs and beat a very in-form Djokovic.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Thanks for proving my point once again. You just look at the head to head. You think Zverev was an easy opponent in IW 2016 when he had a matchpoint on serve and missed an easy volley on it? Or in AO 2017 third round, which was 4 hours of VERY physical tennis, with Nadal being forced to fight hard for every point? Or in Rome 2018 when Zverev won a set 6-1 and was 3-1 up in the deciding set? (again, Nadal had to fight for almost every point)

Zverev might play bad, but he ups his game against top players. I have no idea why people keep underrating him when he won 3 masters titles, and also won WTF by beating a very in-form Djokovic. (who wasn't even broken once on his way to the final). He also upped his game in USO final, though he ended up choking. Yes, I think if Nadal played against him like he did against Sinner he could be in big trouble.

Lol at your posts. Novak has been nadals hardest opponent if you look at the H2H. 29-27. However, yesterday he was like a lamb to the slaughter. Djoko was bullied and beaten up by the king of clay. Previous matches matter not one bit when they enter french open.

At the french open on clay no one is anywhere near Rafa on his favourite surface. He will win it comfortably for a few years yet. You really are a strange nadal fan. Just enjoy his win man and stop trying to find fault in the man. The guy is 100-2 at the tournament and you still doubt him

 

[mike danny]

Federer demolished him 6-1 in the first set of the '06 final and he was completely clueless. But Fed, being a bit of a mental midget on clay, lost concentration and couldn't finish off the job. But he had the skill set to defeat Nadal consistently on clay, if the mentality had matched. Maybe the better for tennis that it didn't.

Btw even the Soderling defeat has an asterisk in that he didn't play for the rest of the season. And in 2015 he was just off. So you could argue he was never 'properly' defeated at RG.

Bolded, Nadal did play the rest of the season. He reached the Cincy semis, USO semis, Shanghai final and Paris semis as his best results.

 

[Nostradamus]

 

[Jonesy]

He is made of clay.

 

[StrongRule]

Lol at your posts. Novak has been nadals hardest opponent if you look at the H2H. 29-27. However, yesterday he was like a lamb to the slaughter. Djoko was bullied and beaten up by the king of clay. Previous matches matter not one bit when they enter french open.

At the french open on clay no one is anywhere near Rafa on his favourite surface. He will win it comfortably for a few years yet. You really are a strange nadal fan. Just enjoy his win man and stop trying to find fault in the man. The guy is 100-2 at the tournament and you still doubt him

Nadal somehow found his form in the final, but he was completely out of form in the 1/4 final.

 

[Wurm]

Playing left-handed (when he is a natural right-hander!) helps a lot.

How many times do we have to do this?

He's a natural left-hander when it comes to tennis. He's a natural left-footer when it comes to football.

He's simply not one side dominant to the degree most of us are.

 

[MeatTornado]

Nadal somehow found his form in the final, but he was completely out of form in the 1/4 final.

And when Sinner was giving him a run for his money in the actual QF, he upped his game and locked it down. Would've been the exact same story with Zverev.

But of course you'll just say that he won because Sinner choked. As if Zverev, the king of chokes, wouldn't have done the same thing.

 

[StrongRule]

And when Sinner was giving him a run for his money in the actual QF, he upped his game and locked it down. Would've been the exact same story with Zverev.

But of course you'll just say that he won because Sinner choked. As if Zverev, the king of chokes, wouldn't have done the same thing.

The king of chokes who has multiple wins over the big-3?

 

[Open Stance]

It's because his water bottles are always in the right spot.

 

[MeatTornado]

The king of chokes who has multiple wins over the big-3?

I love your reality where Nadal is the biggest choker in the history of tennis but Sascha Zverev isn't one at all.

 

[Sephiroth]

I know it's you Stronkrool, but you can't be serious Zverev?! Freaking Zverev?! The guy who got destroyed by The Sinner (who RAFA straight setted)?! The guy who just choked a 2-0 to Timmy at the USO? The guy who skipped Rome so he had even less match play on clay than the rest of the tour? The guy who leads the ATP with DFs? That Zverev? He would have been triple bagled

Even when Nadal's won the tournament StrongRule finds a way to make him lose, is there anyone more pathetic on this forum?

 

[StrongRule]

Even when Nadal's won the tournament StrongRule finds a way to make him lose, is there anyone more pathetic on this forum?

Yes, I think I know one such person.

 

[Sephiroth]

Yes, I think I know one such person.

Very self deprecating of you

 

[StrongRule]

Very self deprecating of you

The fact that I have a hater proves I'm a good poster.

 

[Sephiroth]

The fact that I have a hater proves I'm a good poster.

Every circus needs a clown.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Even when Nadal's won the tournament StrongRule finds a way to make him lose, is there anyone more pathetic on this forum?

Unfortunately, yes but he's the worst of the RAFANS no doubt

 

[StrongRule]

Unfortunately, yes but he's the worst of the RAFANS no doubt

This is true by default, because there is only one Nadal fan here.

 

[mike danny]

The king of chokes who has multiple wins over the big-3?

Well, literally the vast majority of his wins over the Big 3 were easy wins in which he wasn't given an opportunity to choke.

His wins over Djokodal are exactly that: matches in which they did not deliver and Zverev ran away with the wins.

As for Federer, he beat Fed comfortably at the 2018 WTF and at 2017 Montreal Fed was injured, so no way was Zverev losing that one.

So that's 5 clear wins out of 7.

In Shanghai against Fed, Zverev actually did choke, but Fed couldn't keep up his end of the second set level in the 3rd.

 

[The Blond Blur]

This is true by default, because there is only one Nadal fan here.

 

[StrongRule]

Yes.

 

[DMP]

1) His technique is perfect for the surface (the heavy topspin forehand, the time to set himself up to hit them)
2) The motivation to keep winning because it is his banker tournament in the race to acquire slam totals
3) The lack of many other clay court specialists to really challenge him because the homogenisation of surfaces means most players have a general hard court style. Some are a bit better on grass, some on hard courts, but there are no longer many really specialised surface players.

Djokovic is sort of similar at the AO, but there are more potential challengers, being a hard court., Similar for Federer at Wimbledon, but again the new grass means it is more similar to a hard court.

If Borg had had the incentive in his day he could probably have posted similar numbers, but different times meant there were different, more inviting, challenges.

 

[StrongRule]

Well, literally the vast majority of his wins over the Big 3 were easy wins in which he wasn't given an opportunity to choke.

His wins over Djokodal are exactly that: matches in which they did not deliver and Zverev ran away with the wins.

As for Federer, he beat Fed comfortably at the 2018 WTF and at 2017 Montreal Fed was injured, so no way was Zverev losing that one.

So that's 5 clear wins out of 7.

In Shanghai against Fed, Zverev actually did choke, but Fed couldn't keep up his end of the second set level in the 3rd.

Anyway, Zverev clearly knows how to play against Nadal, so for sure he can win against an out for form Nadal.

 

[mike danny]

Anyway, Zverev clearly knows how to play against Nadal, so for sure he can win against an out for form Nadal.

He doesn't know how to play against Nadal if he needs Nadal to be out of form to finally score a win.

 

[Sorry_to_tell_you_mate]

 

[The Blond Blur]

Never liked Joker since then

 

[Arafel]

Even when Nadal's won the tournament StrongRule finds a way to make him lose, is there anyone more pathetic on this forum?

Agreed. He's such a tiresome tool. I wish the mods would ban him

 

[Tostao80]

He moves better than anyone in tennis history on clay. His speed as declined significantly from his prime. But he more than makes up for that by his court awareness, anticipation, and sliding better than anyone in the game.

His Fearhand is the best on this surface. The amount of margin of error he has with the topspin he generates makes it so hard to break down his game. He's an aggressive defender, he can take your best shot and then up the ante in one shot. Most points end in an error whether forced or unforced. RAFA is able to keep his errors to a minimum while being able to switch from defense to offense in an instant.

The serve is a less dominate shot on clay, so you're not going to win a lot of cheap points off of it. Add in the fact that RAFA has one of the best ROS in tennis history and that's a recipe for success. Joker has one of the best serves in the game currently, and he's lost 3 matches (2 at RG) on a DF to RAFA. He puts even great servers under so much pressure that they feel they have to go for more on the serve. In the biggest moments this leads to more DFs. Even in this most recent match, Joker was broken in his last service game with a DF.

His mental toughness and ability to focus better than anyone means his level very rarely drops. He's not going to beat himself by going on mental walkabouts like Joker and Ol' Rog.

Topspin to the back hand, no?

The guy is just made to be the best on clay

Agree with most but Rafa is not one of the best returners in history. A high return games won doesn't automatically mean so.

 

[duaneeo]

Nadal has so many Roland Garros titles for two reasons:

1. Djokovic. Nole always had the physical game to beat Rafa at RG, but the mental game would go south when they met. The DF on championship point at 2012 RG was a sign of things to come.

2. LostGens/NextGens. No comments needed.

 

[GabeT]

He cheats

Spoiler

by playing better

 

[The Blond Blur]

Agree with most but Rafa is not one of the best returners in history. A high return games won doesn't automatically mean so.

Lolz over the last few years RAFA breaks serve more often across all surfaces than Joker does. He got 94% of Joker’s 1st serves in play, and 100% of his 2nd serves in play for an average of 97% of serves returned. He’s not the best returner, but he’s definitely one of the best returners in history.

 

[Nadal_King]

His FH is just too much for anyone to handle on this surface. No one has figured out away around it.

It has so much spin and Rafa commits so few UE with it thst you have to win the points yourself and that results in UE.

Plus, his movement is so good on this surface that it's impossible to catch him off guard.

Also, Chatrier is so big and Rafa has so much space to defend tgat it's impossible to hit winners past him.

Well sums up exactly what I would like to say

 

[Eren]

Can someone remind me what Nadal's BO5 record is on clay (not just RG).

 

[Tostao80]

Lolz over the last few years RAFA breaks serve more often across all surfaces than Joker does. He got 94% of Joker’s 1st serves in play, and 100% of his 2nd serves in play for an average of 97% of serves returned. He’s not the best returner, but he’s definitely one of the best returners in history.

That had a big part to do with Novaks poor serving day. He got out aced by Rafa 4 to 1, despite being a better server, and a better returner. That doesn't happen unless Novak is serving poorly.