Why only two 250 grass and three 1000 Clay tournaments?

checkmilu

checkmilu

Semi-Pro
Halle and Queens are only 250 tournaments and happen at the same time, I.e. technically only one grass tournament pre Wimbledon. It seams that the ATP don't care about grass. On the other hand, Wimbledon is the most prestigious Slam and it's on grass.

Obviously, IMHO the number of master 1000s should be equally distributed amamong different surfaces.

Does anyone here know the logic behind that? Thanks for enlighten me.
 
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tacou

tacou

G.O.A.T.
checkmilu said:
Halle and Queens are only 250 tournaments and happen at the same time, I.e. technically only one grass tournament pre Wimbledon. It seams that the ATP don't care about grass. On the other hand, Wimbledon is the most prestigious Slam and it's on grass.

Obviously, IMHO the number of master 1000s should be equally distributed amamong different surfaces.

Does anyone here know the logic behind that? Thanks for enlighten me.
Click to expand...

Well there are 5 grass 250s, and Queens is becoming a 500 next year. The grass season is not long enough for 3 masters events, or even one.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Queen's Club and Halle will both be 500 events next year, and they will both be moved back a week.
 
ollinger

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
The logic is exquisitely simple. There should be NO grass tournaments. It would be fairer. Grass is not a surface widely available for players to practice on except when they actually get to the venue. Hard courts and clay courts are sufficiently available wherever one goes or more particularly wherever a pro happens to live and does most of his practicing. Grass courts are a relic that nobody trains for except a few weeks a year. They are an aberration at this point in the history of the game and I wouldn't miss them.
 
HunterST

HunterST

Hall of Fame
I'm okay with hardcourts having more master's events sense there are 2 slams on hard. There should at least be an equal number of clay and grass masters, though.

5 HC 2 clay and 2 grass would be fine.
 
B

Bluecapsule

New User
If it wasn't for Wimbledon, there probably would be zero grass tournaments. It's pricey to maintain, and suitable for play only for a small portion of each year.
 
HRB

HRB

Hall of Fame
ollinger said:
The logic is exquisitely simple. There should be NO grass tournaments. It would be fairer. Grass is not a surface widely available for players to practice on except when they actually get to the venue. Hard courts and clay courts are sufficiently available wherever one goes or more particularly wherever a pro happens to live and does most of his practicing. Grass courts are a relic that nobody trains for except a few weeks a year. They are an aberration at this point in the history of the game and I wouldn't miss them.
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Well I guess that is a very "Grass Hater" way of saying what I was going to say..simply accessibility. Grass courts are extremely scarce and not very familiar to fans...I have buddies who have played 30 years on clay and hard courts, even indoor rugs, but never came across grass.

I tried to find a local grass court in upstate NY..and the closest was a Polo Club with a $25K initiation fee...lol! SO nope..I didn't play.

I'd love to try it..should fit my big serve, go for quick winners, high risk/reward style game...but no courts.

Still, love the grass court season...but no need for it to be too long...it's length is relative to it's accessibility.
 
J

JW10S

Hall of Fame
checkmilu said:
Halle and Queens are only 250 tournaments and happen at the same time, I.e. technically only one grass tournament pre Wimbledon. It seams that the ATP don't care about grass. On the other hand, Wimbledon is the most prestigious Slam and it's on grass.

Obviously, IMHO the number of master 1000s should be equally distributed amamong different surfaces.

Does anyone here know the logic behind that? Thanks for enlighten me.
Click to expand...
You're forgetting s'-Hertogenbosch and Eastbourne--they are also pre-Wimbledon grass court events. As has been said an extra week will be added next year. There are a limited number of facilities that have enough grass courts to hold a tournament. Clay courts are cheaper to build and maintain. It's not the ATP's fault.
 
F

Federator

Banned
Agree with OP. Why not just make it 5-2-2? 5 HC since there are 2 HC slams and 2 Master's each for Clay and Grass since there are one slam for each of those surfaces.

Can get rid of Monte Carlo and one of Shangai/Paris/Miami and add 2 grass Master's. What say you?
 
LuckyR

LuckyR

Legend
checkmilu said:
Halle and Queens are only 250 tournaments and happen at the same time, I.e. technically only one grass tournament pre Wimbledon. It seams that the ATP don't care about grass. On the other hand, Wimbledon is the most prestigious Slam and it's on grass.

Obviously, IMHO the number of master 1000s should be equally distributed amamong different surfaces.

Does anyone here know the logic behind that? Thanks for enlighten me.
Click to expand...

Why? Because Uncle Toni made it that way, that's why.
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
tacou said:
Well there are 5 grass 250s, and Queens is becoming a 500 next year. The grass season is not long enough for 3 masters events, or even one.
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There's enough time for one grass Master's tournament.
 
The Green Mile

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
Bud said:
Better question: Why 6 HC MS1000?

5-3-1 would make the most sense
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Nah, that would hinder Federer's chances even further for winning more Masters....

6-1-2, now that would be nice to see! Also hinders Nadals chances as well, which is an added bonus!
 
checkmilu

checkmilu

Semi-Pro
So far, only the accessibility is a good argument. I have played on grass and it's quite fun even though they don't maintain the grass as good as Wimbledon. Seems the ATP have a lesson or two to learn from the PA. ..iIf they can make golf course every where then it should be the same for grass tennis
 
MasturB

MasturB

Legend
If there's a M1000 clay to get rid of it's definitely Madrid.

Monte Carlo and Rome have plenty of history.

Madrid has only been a clay tourney for 6 years now.
 
checkmilu

checkmilu

Semi-Pro
FanOfLu said:
Had Federer been the KOC, OP wouldn't even come up with such thread.
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Wrong, poor argument. Fed has passed his prime, any change now would not affect him and I don't like the if or would. I'm more concerned about the future of tennis. More grass tournaments would bring more variety to the landscape of tennis and more excitement to the fans.
 
FanOfLu

FanOfLu

Professional
checkmilu said:
Wrong, poor argument. Fed has passed his prime, any change now would not affect him and I don't like the if or would. I'm more concerned about the future of tennis. More grass tournaments would bring more variety to the landscape of tennis and more excitement to the fans.
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But there are so many HC masters, ATP500 and ATP250 tournaments compared to both clay and grass. Why are you singling out 3 clay masters???:confused::confused::confused:
 
The Green Mile

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
FanOfLu said:
But there are so many HC masters, ATP500 and ATP250 tournaments compared to both clay and grass. Why are you singling out 3 clay masters???:confused::confused::confused:
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Because generally Hard Court has much broader competition than clay or grass, and is usually more competitive and fair. Imo, there will always be 6 hard court masters because the ATP council will not allow it for that reason.
 
LiquidWhip

LiquidWhip

Rookie
checkmilu said:
If they can make golf course every where then it should be the same for grass tennis
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. It's undoubtedly a bit harder to maintain but surely it's no different to looking after a putting green.

I grew up in Eastbourne and moved to London so a grass court isn't as alien to me as some on this forum. I think the surface adds a different and unique dimension to the game and something we should get to experience more of, so would definitely be in favour of at least one grass ATP1000 tournament in the year.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
The Green Mile said:
Not to sure... I could see them taking at the most ONE hardcourt masters out of the equation, at a stretch....
Click to expand...
I think they should take out Paris. Extend the break untill the WTF, eliminate the 1 masters 1000, which top players don't give their best to win and include a grass masters at either Queens or Halle. And move Shanghai indoors to have an indoor masters 1000 as preparation for the WTF

They do this, everybody is happy IMO
 
The Green Mile

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
mike danny said:
I think they should take out Paris. Extend the break untill the WTF, eliminate the 1 masters 1000, which top players don't give their best to win and include a grass masters at either Queens or Halle. And move Shanghai indoors to have an indoor masters 1000 as preparation for the WTF

They do this, everybody is happy IMO
Click to expand...

Good idea... I would be alright with that.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I know it is not exactly related with grass, but I wonder why are there 2 masters 1000 after AO. They should be placed as preperation for the AO. I don't see the logic behing putting 2 masters 1000 on HC after a HC slam and right before the clay season.

They should put IW and Miami before the AO, after which the players would have the entire March off to rest ahead of the clay season
 
Noleberic123

Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
mike danny said:
I know it is not exactly related with grass, but I wonder why are there 2 masters 1000 after AO. They should be placed as preperation for the AO. I don't see the logic behing putting 2 masters 1000 on HC after a HC slam and right before the clay season.

They should put IW and Miami before the AO, after which the players would have the entire March off to rest ahead of the clay season
Click to expand...

then AO would have to be played later?
 
tacou

tacou

G.O.A.T.
Sabratha said:
There's enough time for one grass Master's tournament.
Click to expand...

There are only 2 weeks between FO and W, so no, not enough time for a new event. Just think of Queens/Halle as masters events if you need to..they both always have great draws
 
checkmilu

checkmilu

Semi-Pro
FanOfLu said:
But there are so many HC masters, ATP500 and ATP250 tournaments compared to both clay and grass. Why are you singling out 3 clay masters???:confused::confused::confused:
Click to expand...

Because the clay is right before grass season, but yeah you're right. ..maybe the OZ open should be played on synthetic grass (I play mainly on synthetic grass and it's really kind to your knees compare to hard) so we have 4 different surfaces and the Master 1000s should be 2-2-2-2 . 500 and 250 are not so important and the ATP can play on that for their revenue raising.

Also, the cost to build grass court is much cheaper than hard, just need to cut & patch it take a bit of time :)
 
D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
tacou said:
There are only 2 weeks between FO and W, so no, not enough time for a new event. Just think of Queens/Halle as masters events if you need to..they both always have great draws
Click to expand...
Exactly, so turning either into one and removing the other would suffice.
 
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