Wilson will release RF85

[ByakuFubuki]

[...]
@PeterFig - your design is nice (I like the general RF97 look but still paying homage to the PS85 paintjob). But don't you think selling this at $250 is absolutely BS? I get it, you probably design for Wilson on a consulting basis so have no input on the commercial strategy, and you probably don't want to make any public comments that would alienate your relationship with Wilson. But less than 6 months ago the PS85 was going for $120 on TW, and now the same racquet with a different paint job is selling for $250. Anyone who knows these facts should feel annoyed. A lot. On the other hand, how they priced the 6.1 18x20 that went on sale yesterday for $130 is spot on.

Just my two cents, but I guess the strategy is selling it at 250+$ so that a bunch of people who don't care much about the price and just want it as soon as it comes out (and/or who are scared by the Limited Edition thing) will buy at full price and then eventually drop it until it sells out. Knowing certain (general) customers I don't think it would work out too bad, but then again I have nothing to do with marketing and I know no one who collects Racquets or cares about what they play with, so it's just a guess.

 

[PeterFig]

Hey dgoran! I hope you're right, but I'd be surprised given that Wilson is marketing this as a "limited" run. They're more likely to just keep it out there at $250 and just stop producing more, eventually they will run out of stock. And then of course, Wilson will come out with the RF90.

@PeterFig - your design is nice (I like the general RF97 look but still paying homage to the PS85 paintjob). But don't you think selling this at $250 is absolutely BS? I get it, you probably design for Wilson on a consulting basis so have no input on the commercial strategy, and you probably don't want to make any public comments that would alienate your relationship with Wilson. But less than 6 months ago the PS85 was going for $120 on TW, and now the same racquet with a different paint job is selling for $250. Anyone who knows these facts should feel annoyed. A lot. On the other hand, how they priced the 6.1 18x20 that went on sale yesterday for $130 is spot on.

I was never part of any pricing / commercial distribution decisions or discussions when I worked with Wilson so I really can't give you an answer to this specific example. However in general economics it's the consumer that sets the price. If a product sells well at whatever the price demanded is, then it means the consumers are there and willing to pay that price. They drive the pricing. If they don't make purchases then that sends a message to the manufacturer. So in this case if the racquet sells well at $250 that simply means that it was the right price for that particular offering. It's as simple as that. Thinking a price is 'outrageous' really doesn't factor into that situation - sales do. If the racquet doesn't sell well at $250 then the price was too high for what is being offered. The market will decide. Clearly Wilson thinks there will be a demand at that price.

Just a couple of months ago people were 'outraged' when the limited edition RF97 (18 racquets for winning his 18th slam) racquet was being sold for $10,000. The racquets sold out in minutes. That means the price was right (or in this case possibly even too low!). Again it's the demand for that particular product offering by the consumer that made a $10,000 price reasonable to those who made the purchase.

 

[PeterFig]

Peter - just wanted to say that the 2016/2017 paint jobs for Wilson are totally on point. Everyone could take a cue from Apple, notably the most design obsessed company in these times.

Having the whole spectrum of a company's offerings with the same/similar synergy is very good branding.

I really like that the Pro Staffs, Blades, Burns all share the same synergy. I especially like the vivid reds, greens and oranges that complement the matt black/grey of the frames. My favourite would be the grey/orange of the Burn series, even though I'm a Pro Staff person. Grey doesn't make perfect sense given the rest of the range goes with black, perhaps that ought to have been kept for the the next editions.

Design wise, you've brought in some long needed thinking into the industry, Wilson is lucky to have you. The only other thing that comes close to being attractive is Babolat's Project 7 series.

Of course design is subjective, I'm really not with all the modern neon/electric colours that are popular nowadays.

$10 says the Ultra Line (if continued) would be black/blue. That would be the obvious thing to do.

Thanks! I appreciate the kind words. A lot of credit also goes to others involved in making the final product what it is. From management that championed the idea of focusing on great design, to the great guys in R&D to actually make it come to life (ex: engineering the laser engraved metal lettering).

 

[JoelDali]

Love Rogi.

Love the 85.

But this is just a wierd offering.

Not sure what to make of it.

They kill off the greatest sized raquet of all time with the 90 and then drop an 85 on us with Rogi's face on it?

Cool, but just sorta wierd.

Would still love to try one, of course. [emoji5]

 

[jmacdaununder2]

Malisse used at least a 28" racquet; not sure if it was 'hair pinned' stock or was custom lay up as well. (Sorry re thread derailment.)

 

[Deleted member 742196]

Thanks! I appreciate the kind words. A lot of credit also goes to others involved in making the final product what it is. From management that championed the idea of focusing on great design, to the great guys in R&D to actually make it come to life (ex: engineering the laser engraved metal lettering).

You're most welcome Peter, it's much deserved - perhaps more so on in these jaded times. I have a company focused on product design too (industrial products - different sector) and recognize how much a team needs to come together to materialize a concept.

I really, really like the fact you've provided Wilson with a template they can work with for years ahead. It's a great concept - as a tennis player, and as a product designer.

Awesome job!

 

[Bogdan_TT]

Will not buy this, and probably will never buy a Wilson again, ever.

This racquet is an insult to Pete Sampras, and it shows that Wilson is ditching it's legends and heritage for profit. Ugly!

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Will not buy this,
This racquet is an insult to Pete Sampras, and it shows that Wilson is ditching it's legends and heritage for profit. Ugly!

Same here, the disrespect is real.

 

[Deleted member 742196]

I'm not sure it's disrespectful to Sampras. If they came up with a complete RF line of all the frames he's used over his career that would be neat.

Perhaps they ought to have done just that to avoid the confusion and ill-sentiment.

 

[slicendice]

I'm just glad a racquet company is reissuing an old school frame, albeit with a new paintjob. Other companies should take note. I'll make a few Wilson purchases this year just in support of this decision.

 

[ONgame]

Nice, complete misuse of the meme.

 

[JoelDali]

I'm just glad a racquet company is reissuing an old school frame, albeit with a new paintjob. Other companies should take note. I'll make a few Wilson purchases this year just in support of this decision.

Yes. Very happy to see a reversal back to old school lineage but an 85 with Rogi on it?

Fuchen gimme that stick in a 90 with that matte black and I would buy 10 of them with sureshez face on it.

But an 85 tied to Rogi, so late in his career is just kinda awkward. Smells funny.

90 is just so much more logical and would sell so, so much more. Maybe that is coming in 2018.

The world needs an RF90 matte black beauty.

 

[ShahofTennis]

Nice, complete misuse of the meme.

I must say, I am somewhat embarassed.

 

[ONgame]

I must say, I am somewhat embarassed.

This one is kinda hard, how about something like...

Yo Dawg, I herd you like RF Logo, so I put an RF Logo on your PS85 so you can be like a Fed while you play with a Fed.

Would make more sense if it was a PS90 or Federer played with PS85 more than just "briefly".

 

[Federette33]

Yes. Very happy to see a reversal back to old school lineage but an 85 with Rogi on it?

Fuchen gimme that stick in a 90 with that matte black and I would buy 10 of them with sureshez face on it.

But an 85 tied to Rogi, so late in his career is just kinda awkward. Smells funny.

90 is just so much more logical and would sell so, so much more. Maybe that is coming in 2018.

The world needs an RF90 matte black beauty.

Sure

PS85:
0 GS
0 M1000

PS90:
17 GS
21 M1000
6 WTF
2 OM

RF97:
1 GS
5 M1000
1 DC

 

[Federette33]

For me it's obvious that Federer is more "affective" with the PS90

 

[richardc-s]

Looks great to me, I would buy it just to hang on my study wall and use occasionally

 

[LuchoVena]

it is pretty crazy ... but given how much space he leaves between his hands on his two-handed backhand, it's not surprising he needs all the grip real-estate.
This is actually a bit of a trend and I know Wilson was actively addressing this by making the grips on some of the more recent 'baseliner' racquets like the Burn a bit longer.

That extra overlap around the throat actually increases drag, esp on single handed forehand.

Surprised this racquet wasnt ready for two hands (but perhaps was a PJ over his older frame? also common trend) His hands also are more separated than a normal 2hbh from what I learned and observed, but I gave up as little and used 1 handed anyways. Short pallets dont bother me.

 

[LuchoVena]

Just a couple of months ago people were 'outraged' when the limited edition RF97 (18 racquets for winning his 18th slam) racquet was being sold for $10,000. The racquets sold out in minutes. That means the price was right (or in this case possibly even too low!). Again it's the demand for that particular product offering by the consumer that made a $10,000 price reasonable to those who made the purchase.

Yes, but those were incredibly low in stock (and for a reason). This price was manipulated/driven by how many there were.

I suspect the new 85 will not be as mass produced as the the earlier re-makes, to keep prices up as long as they can.

 

[paul_tennis]

The PS85 was a classic, the original paint job was so beautiful why make an ugly all black reissue with fancy typography and Roger face on it? For me it just don't make sense...

It would make more sense to put Sampras autograph like the KPS88 pj...

The K Factor generation was the last generation I really liked design-wise

 

[JoelDali]

The PS85 was a classic, the original paint job was so beautiful why make an ugly all black reissue with fancy typography and Roger face on it? For me it just don't make sense...

It would make more sense to put Sampras autograph like the KPS88 pj...

The K Factor generation was the last generation I really liked design-wise

It's a silly offering.

But just imagine if Roger switched to it. All the 3.5 players would think 85 is a new modern era and love it.

 

[nicolaisidek]

Will it be a US only release? Wilson SEA says they're not taking it in which is frustrating, really.

 

[teachingprotx]

Weird the head looks to be at least 90 from pics

 

[PeterFig]

Weird the head looks to be at least 90 from pics

Must be the photo - it's a standard Pro Staff 85.

 

[ByakuFubuki]

Will it be a US only release? Wilson SEA says they're not taking it in which is frustrating, really.

Some pages ago (or in another Thread, maybe), someone put a link of a German Online Shop selling it, but I checked and it sold out.

 

[floydcouncil]

For me it's obvious that Federer is more "affective" with the PS90

Yeah right... just look at the equipment, right? Don't even consider his age, right?

So based on your logic, then the PS85 is the worst of the 3, yes?

 

[BreakPoint]

The world needs an RF90 matte black beauty.

QFT

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

For me it's obvious that Federer is more "affective" with the PS90

For me, it's obvious that Federer was more effective with his youth.

Argh, I keep forgetting this is an equipment discussion board, where logic doesn't apply.

 

[JoelDali]

QFT

You're back.

 

[movdqa]

QFT

Nice to have you back!

 

[sureshs]

QFT

How many threads I created enquiring what happened to you! What happened to you, BTW?

 

[movdqa]

How many threads I created enquiring what happened to you! What happened to you, BTW?

You should go through those posts and update them. I updated one of them. At least we now know that he's not an engineer in Chelmsford.

 

[movdqa]

QFT

So are you going to pick one up?

I don't think that Wilson's going to do a TW playtest for this one.

 

[sureshs]

BP, did you quit after realizing that Federer needed a bigger frame to win a Slam again?

 

[Deleted member 3771]

Wilson just needs to educate the buyers with a bit of advertising and marketing to inform them that they should all first use an 85 during their stroke development phase like Roger did before they can then progress to a bigger racquet and gain the full benefits of using a bigger racquet.

 

[sureshs]

Breaky, can you post on this thread:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...er-actually-play-with-the-rf97.573381/page-15

 

[Vcore89]

Must be the photo - it's a standard Pro Staff 85.

Anything about RF K-Factor Pro Staff 88 relaunch?

 

[BreakPoint]

Nice to have you back!

Thanks!

 

[BreakPoint]

BP, did you quit after realizing that Federer needed a bigger frame to win a Slam again?

Ha ha ha! LOL

Not at all. I just decided that I was was wasting too much of my time arguing with trolls who seem to have nothing better to do than to attack me. I don't think I've posted since around the US Open last year, when no one knew if Federer would ever even be back on tour again.

 

[BreakPoint]

Wilson just needs to educate the buyers with a bit of advertising and marketing to inform them that they should all first use an 85 during their stroke development phase like Roger did before they can then progress to a bigger racquet and gain the full benefits of using a bigger racquet.

Agree 100%.

Just look at Federer. It took him 30 years of using smaller racquets before he reaped the full benefits of using a bigger one.

 

[Topspin Shot]

Agree 100%.

Just look at Federer. It took him 30 years of using smaller racquets before he reaped the full benefits of using a bigger one.

OMG you're back and you admit Fed benefited from using a bigger frame!

 

[Username_]

Now we just need 60's Weed back

 

[big ted]

on the TW description page it says its all graphite, so i assume its not like the original that had braided kevlar?

also for those complaining they didnt make a sampras 85 ltd, if you were around back then youll remember
sampras' name couldnt sell that many racquets even when he was #1..he didnt even have a clothing contract
at the beginning of 2002 (apparently he thought nike was low-balling him)

what would have been cool tho is maybe a sampras/federer/evert/courier combo autograph edition of the prostaff 85....

 

[JoelDali]

what would have been cool tho is maybe a sampras/federer/evert/courier combo autograph edition of the prostaff 85....

 

[PeterFig]

on the TW description page it says its all graphite, so i assume its not like the original that had braided kevlar?

It's the exact same layup as the original :
BRAIDED GRAPHITE (80%) / KEVLAR (20%) COMPOSITE

 

[PeterFig]

Anything about RF K-Factor Pro Staff 88 relaunch?

Unlikely as he never used that frame.

 

[Le Master]

Unlikely as he never used that frame.

 

[JoelDali]

The KPS RF 88 was heavy but such a great, great frame.

 

[Harry_Wild]

Will not buy this, and probably will never buy a Wilson again, ever.

This racquet is an insult to Pete Sampras, and it shows that Wilson is ditching it's legends and heritage for profit. Ugly!

Wilson designed the 85 for Jimmy Connors in the first place! Pete Sampras plays with a Babalot racquet the last time I saw him play.

 

[Harry_Wild]

on the TW description page it says its all graphite, so i assume its not like the original that had braided kevlar?

also for those complaining they didnt make a sampras 85 ltd, if you were around back then youll remember
sampras' name couldnt sell that many racquets even when he was #1..he didnt even have a clothing contract
at the beginning of 2002 (apparently he thought nike was low-balling him)

what would have been cool tho is maybe a sampras/federer/evert/courier combo autograph edition of the prostaff 85....

Forgot Edberg!