Worst day since awhile

[mcs1970]

When my opponent does this kind of thing, hitting shots that are obviously not their strength, I am actually happy. One, he is trying to get lucky, he might get a few points, but it will catch up with him. I just need to wait. Two, he is tired (maybe), not being able to use his strengths, so i don't have to worry too much, just focus on getting those silly balls.
If my opponent is better or same level as me, it is the last thing i want to do to give them mental reinforcement like that.

To each his own. To me the biggest issue when someone says they are not consistent is that the they are not giving themselves a nice margin for error. Too many rec players tend to think of high level players as consistently hitting screaming winners or difficult shots. However most win due to playing shots that give them a good margin for error.

The advice I stated shifts your focus from trying to win to seeing the full court. You are not putting undue pressure on yourself thinking only about winners but focusing on keeping the ball in play. Your consistency and ironically winners too will increase.

 

[user92626]

@mcs1970 @ptuanminh ,
Tennis is meant for playing and doing, NOT for talking. Anyone can talk tennis all day and I bet no two persons get the same thing out of it. What the heck is a "perfect drop shot" or "silly balls" or "screaming winners"? I bet if you two are asked to write down the answers secretly, they'll come out completely different.

All the challenge of tennis is in doing. Not in planning or talking about it away from the court.

 

[FiReFTW]

Yep. We all want to crush the ball like Federer or Nadal. They are not just pros but in the all time greatest discussions.

@FiReFTW look at the 5.0 guy video you posted yesterday. Let him be your model. If you watch someone like Brian Su, he also wins a ton that way. Nothing flashy. Just chokes other high level players to death with his consistency.

More often than not I play much better when swinging very fast and hitting hard (not insanely out of control hard, just fast swing speed and good clean hitting), my problem more often than not when I get tight and lose confidence or am afraid of losing or not performing well is I get too tentative, and this is specially 100% true on my 2nd serve, where I then end up making alot of double faults because of it, because im tight and swing so slowly even tho I still go for spinning the serve and kicking it, but afraid to really swing fast.


Anyway, update from today, went out and played very very well!

I actually listened to a few audio recordings and read a few things about this issue of performance etc... and I tried to incorporate alot of the advice from those, like:

1.Not care about score
2.Focus on 1 point at a time
3.Focus on what target ur trying to hit
4.Don't focus on things you can't control just focus on what you want to hit or serve and how you want to play and focus on that
5.Let go of misses and embrace them and take them as if you miss by a bit and it would be a great shot be happy and think just a little bit more left and it would be lots of trouble for opponent
6.When you miss ask yourself what you did wrong and then in your head imagine doing it right (like missing a sitter long, imagine in ur mind how you swing less up etc.. and can even try shadow swing after to further emphase it)

Of course I didn't manage all these things but I did a good job I think and it helped alot, I was very focused only on the important things and didn't really think too much about anything irrelevant.

I found that one thing that also helped me alot about not thinking too much about irrelevant things that only hurt your performance (and maybe this is just me, but it seems to work for me) is to INTENSELY FOCUS on watching the ball, and im not talking just watching it, I mean intensely focus ur eyes on it, like if you were looking at a distant object and really zooming and focusing ur view directly into it, like focusing on the ball like that non stop almost trying to see the fuzz on it and all the little details, really helps me focus only on playing tennis and hitting the ball and making good clean contact and not thinking about any outside things that might distract me. So thats the key for me it seems, during points.

And in between points its just thinking positive, like good point you did well, or you lost the point but it was a really good point the opponent just played a little better, or if you make an error focus on what you did wrong like mentioned before.

 

[user92626]

@FiReFTW look at the 5.0 guy video you posted yesterday. Let him be your model. If you watch someone like Brian Su, he also wins a ton that way. Nothing flashy. Just chokes other high level players to death with his consistency.

5.0 Brian Su is able to have consistency because he plays inferior level players than him. Give Brian a professional qualifier and he'll look like a 2.5 player facing a 4.0.

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Warmup sucked this guy keeps hitting full power and going for winners and missing in warmups, already told him before but hes stubborn so whatever.

Stop warming up with him. If he asks to warm up, say you'd rather warm up with the pusher warming up alone with the wall. You're not there to feed him balls. If you have no choice, warm up with a wall. If a wall is unavailable, do dynamic stretching and warm up with the fence. If you're going to get erratic balls anyway, at least you know the fence isn't trying to give you a hard time. This is why I feel bad when I warm up with some players that hit a ball I struggle to control to half a court, because I know it's tilting when you're trying to warm up and the other guy isn't giving many decent balls.

You don’t have to hit a perfect drop shot or an attacking slice or a perfect unreturned lob. The advice I got was to think like a coach who is feeding balls. That coach wants the client to get to the ball. If your client(in this case your opponent) makes you pay for not hitting perfect shots that’s fine. At least you made him run around.

Honestly, I used to be the type to like hitting winners. Later on, I realized it was due to my poor conditioning and wanted an easy out. Further after that, I know now anytime I go for a winner, I'm mentally under pressure. Either it's a big point and I don't want to deal with the pressure, or the other guy is playing/moving really well and I'm scared to work to beat them for the point. Now, I try to be aggressive without explicitly aiming for a winner. It's not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction.

More often than not I play much better when swinging very fast and hitting hard (not insanely out of control hard, just fast swing speed and good clean hitting), my problem more often than not when I get tight and lose confidence or am afraid of losing or not performing well is I get too tentative, and this is specially 100% true on my 2nd serve, where I then end up making alot of double faults because of it, because im tight and swing so slowly even tho I still go for spinning the serve and kicking it, but afraid to really swing fast.


Anyway, update from today, went out and played very very well!

I actually listened to a few audio recordings and read a few things about this issue of performance etc... and I tried to incorporate alot of the advice from those, like:

1.Not care about score
2.Focus on 1 point at a time
3.Focus on what target ur trying to hit
4.Don't focus on things you can't control just focus on what you want to hit or serve and how you want to play and focus on that
5.Let go of misses and embrace them and take them as if you miss by a bit and it would be a great shot be happy and think just a little bit more left and it would be lots of trouble for opponent
6.When you miss ask yourself what you did wrong and then in your head imagine doing it right (like missing a sitter long, imagine in ur mind how you swing less up etc.. and can even try shadow swing after to further emphase it)

Of course I didn't manage all these things but I did a good job I think and it helped alot, I was very focused only on the important things and didn't really think too much about anything irrelevant.

I found that one thing that also helped me alot about not thinking too much about irrelevant things that only hurt your performance (and maybe this is just me, but it seems to work for me) is to INTENSELY FOCUS on watching the ball, and im not talking just watching it, I mean intensely focus ur eyes on it, like if you were looking at a distant object and really zooming and focusing ur view directly into it, like focusing on the ball like that non stop almost trying to see the fuzz on it and all the little details, really helps me focus only on playing tennis and hitting the ball and making good clean contact and not thinking about any outside things that might distract me. So thats the key for me it seems, during points.

And in between points its just thinking positive, like good point you did well, or you lost the point but it was a really good point the opponent just played a little better, or if you make an error focus on what you did wrong like mentioned before.

This is a step in the right direction. It's hard to totally turn your thinking around, but it's possible. Honestly, I start with something simple and slowly add on to it. Another thing you could do is acknowledge what is causing the mental pressure so you can properly deal with it (preferably over the changeover unless you can think really quick and still calm yourself down). Why are you nervous because of the score? Why does losing bother you? The more you ask yourself these questions, the more you can understand about yourself as a person and grow, while at the same time be able to deal with problems with a more grounded and rational perspective. Maybe you're scared you'll lose serve and you think you'll lose because players are expected to hold serve all the time, so in a perfect world you lose if you lose that point. But then you realize, the opponent is human as well, and will make mistakes. So then you realize that if you do your best to increase the pressure your opponent has, they might eventually drop serve as well and you're back in the set. Then you can play your point with less pressure because there is less weight to it than you initially thought. Then in future matches, you'll want to defend the break point, but you won't stress heavily on it and will play it out to the best of your ability one point at a time.

 

[FiReFTW]

Why are you nervous because of the score? Why does losing bother you? The more you ask yourself these questions, the more you can understand about yourself as a person and grow, while at the same time be able to deal with problems with a more grounded and rational perspective. Maybe you're scared you'll lose serve and you think you'll lose because players are expected to hold serve all the time, so in a perfect world you lose if you lose that point.

Oh I know why im so tight sometimes.

Since I have high goals and practice alot, I have high expectations, and I feel embarassed to lose to people who have worse strokes than me yet play tennis for 10 times longer than me, I still feel deflated and feel like my self image is bad then and people will find it funny and embarassing how someone like me with such advanced strokes can lose to such hackers.
Thats why when I play players like UTR8 guy I played twice, or even some higher ones, or the UTR13 guy I played twice, I play much better overall, doesn't matter if I lose, but my strokes and feeling on court, feeling excited, comfortable and hyped, and in the zone, excited, wanting to prove miself and super hyped super energized, and yet completely relaxed and loose because even if I get murdered 0:6 0:6 its expected because hes so much better so I don't care.
But against players that are worse (even if they play for 15 or 20 years and actually are better tennis players than me at the moment) it feels embarassing to lose to them, not because I don't respect their level and all, because my strokes look much more advanced and losing to people like that would make me look silly for other people watching or whatever, like how could he lose to that guy?

But I think my mentality today (the one you quoted) was much better overall and much more mature, I will keep working in this direction and ignoring all other things like opponent, score etc... but focus only on miself, my game, the ball etc...

 

[tlm]

Oh I know why im so tight sometimes.

Since I have high goals and practice alot, I have high expectations, and I feel embarassed to lose to people who have worse strokes than me yet play tennis for 10 times longer than me, I still feel deflated and feel like my self image is bad then and people will find it funny and embarassing how someone like me with such advanced strokes can lose to such hackers.
Thats why when I play players like UTR8 guy I played twice, or even some higher ones, or the UTR13 guy I played twice, I play much better overall, doesn't matter if I lose, but my strokes and feeling on court, feeling excited, comfortable and hyped, and in the zone, excited, wanting to prove miself and super hyped super energized, and yet completely relaxed and loose because even if I get murdered 0:6 0:6 its expected because hes so much better so I don't care.
But against players that are worse (even if they play for 15 or 20 years and actually are better tennis players than me at the moment) it feels embarassing to lose to them, not because I don't respect their level and all, because my strokes look much more advanced and losing to people like that would make me look silly for other people watching or whatever, like how could he lose to that guy?

But I think my mentality today (the one you quoted) was much better overall and much more mature, I will keep working in this direction and ignoring all other things like opponent, score etc... but focus only on miself, my game, the ball etc...

Don’t fall in the trap of thinking how a player’s strokes look determines how good of a player they are. At rec level many players with good looking strokes lose to a player that doesn’t look near as polished. It really doesn’t mean anything, I remember when Rafa came on tour and many alleged experts talked about how his forehand mechanics were all wrong and he was going to have shoulder problems etc.

 

[FiReFTW]

Don’t fall in the trap of thinking how a player’s strokes look determines how good of a player they are. At rec level many players with good looking strokes lose to a player that doesn’t look near as polished. It really doesn’t mean anything, I remember when Rafa came on tour and many alleged experts talked about how his forehand mechanics were all wrong and he was going to have shoulder problems etc.

Its not that I think im better with someone whos strokes are not as advanced or technically good as mine, I know someone with 10 or 15 years tennis experience will most likely beat me easily.
Infact even that iRacer youtube guy has meh strokes, they are pretty decent overall but technique wise he still has many things that are not that good and looks very robotic, and yet hes UTR9 or UTR10 and would beat me easily, but I would still have the same thing in mind.
So its not about me thinking I should beat someone who has not as good technical strokes as mine, im not so ignorant, it has more to do with the fact how im perceived by other people when losing to such players, people who watch me and see my strokes look good and then I lose to someone whos don't look quite as good and people who don't hit nearly as hard as me and the thought of what those people might think is the core issue, thinking how pathetic that I lose to someone like that or something to that extent, having such good strokes and hitting so much harder or better and yet losing.
So it has more to do with how other people perceive this, and alot of people are not that experienced in tennis and are clueless about such stuff, so they always ask me how could you lose to that guy? and stuff like that.. how can that not irritate me? and then make me self conscious?

Its the same idea of why I used to be fearing losing 0:6 or 1:6 and even to the point where I almost would be more happy to lose 3:6 even if I played worse than when I lost 1:6 just becuase most ppl are ignorant and think the result shows how good you played or how much better someone was, and everyone always ASKS me the result and then assume I played like cr*p and that the other guy is way better.. and it really gets under my skin, but im slowly starting to ignore such people and focus only on miself and my own level, regardless of the result, its just a bit hard sometimes, you always have that in the back of ur mind of people judging u based on the score or something and so ur afraid of that.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[tlm]

Its not that I think im better with someone whos strokes are not as advanced or technically good as mine, I know someone with 10 or 15 years tennis experience will most likely beat me easily.
Infact even that iRacer youtube guy has meh strokes, they are pretty decent overall but technique wise he still has many things that are not that good and looks very robotic, and yet hes UTR9 or UTR10 and would beat me easily, but I would still have the same thing in mind.
So its not about me thinking I should beat someone who has not as good technical strokes as mine, im not so ignorant, it has more to do with the fact how im perceived by other people when losing to such players, people who watch me and see my strokes look good and then I lose to someone whos don't look quite as good and people who don't hit nearly as hard as me and the thought of what those people might think is the core issue, thinking how pathetic that I lose to someone like that or something to that extent, having such good strokes and hitting so much harder or better and yet losing.
So it has more to do with how other people perceive this, and alot of people are not that experienced in tennis and are clueless about such stuff, so they always ask me how could you lose to that guy? and stuff like that.. how can that not irritate me? and then make me self conscious?

Its the same idea of why I used to be fearing losing 0:6 or 1:6 and even to the point where I almost would be more happy to lose 3:6 even if I played worse than when I lost 1:6 just becuase most ppl are ignorant and think the result shows how good you played or how much better someone was, and everyone always ASKS me the result and then assume I played like cr*p and that the other guy is way better.. and it really gets under my skin, but im slowly starting to ignore such people and focus only on miself and my own level, regardless of the result, its just a bit hard sometimes, you always have that in the back of ur mind of people judging u based on the score or something and so ur afraid of that.

I hope this makes sense.

I understand what your thinking but I still think you are worrying too much about the results. Like I’ve mentioned before I really think you need to play more matches. When I played on an indoor winter league there were always these experts that would watch the matches and would have all this advice for me and tell me why I lost.

Even guys on my team that only played doubles if they were done early and watched they would know exactly what I should have done. Even though none of them could even take a set off me they still knew what I should have done. I just got used to it and would laugh it off because I’ve found its so easy to watch a match and say you should have hit more to the backhand or you should have came in more etc.

Before I played league tennis I would play a lot of pick up matches and I got my butt whooped so many times I couldn’t count them all. But it didn’t deter me I just kept playing as many players as I could I didn’t care how much better they were than me. I lost to old guys with 4 braces on to young junior girls and to guys I thought I was better than. But I just kept playing until I became match tough and figured out ways to win.

 

[AlexSV]

Its the same idea of why I used to be fearing losing 0:6 or 1:6 and even to the point where I almost would be more happy to lose 3:6 even if I played worse than when I lost 1:6 just becuase most ppl are ignorant and think the result shows how good you played or how much better someone was, and everyone always ASKS me the result and then assume I played like cr*p and that the other guy is way better..

I think I had a similar weekend. The end result was really bad due to a lot of unforced errors. However, those errors were from good positions so I feel good about the match despite the scoreline.

If the process seems to be working then it's easier to ignore the results.

 

[mcs1970]

5.0 Brian Su is able to have consistency because he plays inferior level players than him. Give Brian a professional qualifier and he'll look like a 2.5 player facing a 4.0.

He didn’t become a 5.0 by playing inferior players. That’s not how it works

Also Monfils or Berdych who can beat most pros look rattled playing Federer or Rafa. So does that mean they are trash? Everyone loses their consistency when playing someone better. FiReFTW is a low level rec player. It is going to be challenging for him to get to even Brian’s level. So he is definitely a good model to emulate for those looking to get to a 5.0 as Fire is trying to.

 

[mcs1970]

@mcs1970 @ptuanminh ,
Tennis is meant for playing and doing, NOT for talking. Anyone can talk tennis all day and I bet no two persons get the same thing out of it. What the heck is a "perfect drop shot" or "silly balls" or "screaming winners"? I bet if you two are asked to write down the answers secretly, they'll come out completely different.

All the challenge of tennis is in doing. Not in planning or talking about it away from the court.

Yet there is an insane level of focus on these forums on hitting pro level strokes.

By the way my last few posts in this thread were about a tip that has helped my game and my consistency tremendously. So I shared it. So not even sure what you are talking about.

 

[ByeByePoly]

How do you mentally get over this quickly?

Ive had an absolutely horrible tennis performance today, in doubles and then singles, absolute travesty, missing tons of easy balls, shanking all over the place... after working hard this week on certain aspects of my game and really having some nice days in between where I felt like I really got better, today I feel like sh*t and feel like im much worse as a player than I was even 1 year ago after this performance.

Man its so tough mentally when you have such days, it really is, can someone else relate to this?

You just need a hug. Or a dog.

 

[Morch Us]

The actual problem is "expectations".
Set yourself goals(if you have to), but not expectations.

The more you are "supposed to" make a shot, the more pressure you are putting yourself into.
The more you are "supposed to" win against someone, the more pressure you are putting yourself into.

The problem is when you play like sh*t

 

[user92626]

He didn’t become a 5.0 by playing inferior players. That’s not how it works

Inferior players than him is the keyword. Maybe Brian could reach higher but he chose to compete at 5.0 level and keeps his enjoyable consistency.

Consistency isn't a skill existing a vacuum that you choose or not choose to get if you're serious about competing. It's interdependent on your opponents, and even more so for recreational level. (For pro level, say, some years like 2011 when Djokovic got so hot that regardless of opponent, his consistency was always present.)

Recreational level is never ceiling-less like the pro. There's always level higher that will make your level look like 80 years old man's tennis. Whether you want to compete there is a different story.

 

[mcs1970]

Inferior players than him is the keyword. Maybe Brian could reach higher but he chose to compete at 5.0 level and keeps his enjoyable consistency.

Consistency isn't a skill existing a vacuum that you choose or not choose to get if you're serious about competing. It's interdependent on your opponents, and even more so for recreational level. (For pro level, say, some years like 2011 when Djokovic got so hot that regardless of opponent, his consistency was always present.)

Recreational level is never ceiling-less like the pro. There's always level higher that will make your level look like 80 years old man's tennis. Whether you want to compete there is a different story.

It's true for pros too. As I said, Federer can make the world #10 look like trash.


What's the goal here for FireFTW? He's mentioned he wants to be a 5.0. Is he trying to be a pro? If 5.0 is the goal, can't he get valuable lessons from watching other 5.0s and realizing that you can win with safe high error margin shots rather than have to hit like pros? Who cares that a 5.5 can make Brian Su look bad?

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

You don’t have to hit a perfect drop shot or an attacking slice or a perfect unreturned lob. The advice I got was to think like a coach who is feeding balls. That coach wants the client to get to the ball. If your client(in this case your opponent) makes you pay for not hitting perfect shots that’s fine. At least you made him run around.

I like that shift of thinking: it changes the terms of engagement and allows one to view things from a different perspective. Oftentimes, that alone can cause a shift to occur.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Consistency isn't a skill existing a vacuum that you choose or not choose to get if you're serious about competing. It's interdependent on your opponents, and even more so for recreational level.

True but some people are more willing to fall back on consistency as a Plan B whereas others reject it as a possibility and keep on blasting away.

 

[navigator]

Man its so tough mentally when you have such days, it really is, can someone else relate to this?

I think this is pretty normal but, no, I can't relate. I can't think of a single time in five years of playing tennis where I walked off the court and thought, "Wow, I really played well today," or conversely, "Wow, I really played poorly today." It's within a fairly narrow range. I'll have a particularly good or bad game or two here and there. But an entire match... I play pretty much the same - not particularly good or bad; just average.

and it really gets under my skin, but im slowly starting to ignore such people and focus only on miself and my own level, regardless of the result, its just a bit hard sometimes, you always have that in the back of ur mind of people judging u based on the score or something and so ur afraid of that.

Yeah, you just have to forget what others might think. I'm not sure why you care. That's probably the main reason you play poorly - you're irrationally concerned about what others think of your game. It's rec tennis and no one really cares about your level except you. Stop thinking and worrying so much. Stop obsessing over your progress and whether you've been playing for 4.2 years or 3.7 years or whether you're losing to some guy that's played for 5.3 years. Or whether that injury that kept you out for 2 months means you've only "really" been playing for 3.9 years. Etc. You're turning your tennis - which should be a fun, relaxing activity - into a miserable exercise of self-flagellation and self-immolation. Yes, yes, I know... you're "competitive" - whatever that means. Well, it's not helping. Just relax, for god's sake.

Or don't. Maybe you're a masochist who enjoys frustration and pain. It takes all kinds.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Warmup sucked this guy keeps hitting full power and going for winners and missing in warmups, already told him before but hes stubborn so whatever.

Annoying but that shouldn't throw your warmup radically. What it did was throw you off mentally.

My frame of mind was i had rly good days from monday to thursday where i was very happy with my level, but didnt play for 2 days now so a bit worried how my feel will be and hoping i would perform well.

Not having played for 2 days would not cause me the least concern.

Don't worry about how you will perform. That's thinking into the future. You want to be in the moment which means think about the current point.

Coach was not watching but I always want to perform well for everyone around where im playing.

I think this will hurt you: you're not there to perform for others. I try to ignore crowds and focus on the job at hand. The more energy I'm expending worrying about my performance, the less energy I have to focus on what I need to do.

Yes I expect a certain level of miself, I want to play good level tennis already, some junior u18 girls from my coach are UTR8 level tennis and I want to be competitive with them, it rly drives me and I feel very competitive in my mind and always when they do some drills I want to top them, but i know its overly optimistic of miself to be at that level so soon, its crazy they play for 8+ years and have played hundreds upon hundreds of matches, but i think its good to have something like this that drives you and makes you work hard.

Again, it comes down to expectations: yours are a weight that you're dragging around with you.

Had great week but didnt play for 2 days so was a but worried how il perform.

That's the 3rd time you've used the word "perform": it's clear you care a great deal how you are perceived, both by yourself and others. But you also need to realize what a great burden this can be. I suspect you're not even aware of the weight. I suggest trying to play a match without those expectations to see the other extreme.

 

[Morch Us]

It is a long thread... and I did not read all of your posts. But I can frankly tell you that you are really doing everything you can for self destruction... really.

Look at the below totally irrelevant items you brought up.... Have a self evaluation on why you brought those up. I can give some hints below.. whether you agree or not.

No need to answer to the below questions... just have a self evaluation. And above all ACCEPT defeats... and accept when someone is better than you.... and accept that it is part of it. The more you respect your opponent, the more chance you have to understand his strengths and the more chance you have to beat him.

Really? Experience has nothing to do with anything you have here. He may have beaten you even if he has less experience than you.... totally irrelevant.... purely excuse mentality.

with 10 or 15 years tennis experience

Define hitting hard? Does Nadal hit as hard as Del-Porto?

who don't hit nearly as hard as me

Define good strokes.... Does than mean he does not hit like Federer.... but rather like Medvedev (effective... but not elegant?)

good strokes

Again... same.....

hitting so much harder

 

[MyFearHand]

I haven't read most of the rest of the thread so apologies if something like this was already said.

A few years ago I was talking to one of my friends on the club team I was on. He won the Mexico 16 and under tournament back in the day but had some pretty bad injuries which forced him away from playing D1 tennis which is where he was headed. Anyways, we were chatting about tennis and he told me that the thing he loves most about the sport is finding a way to win when he isn't playing his best. I thought this was a pretty great mentality to approach the game with and one I've tried to adopt since then. The days when you play your absolute best are going to be few and far between. There are a lot of variables outside of your control as well as many which are technically under your control but difficult for the average person to control while balancing life. For example, it's not realistic to expect you'll be able to work out every day or do a lot of recovery the way the pros do. Of course you can always do something.

So how do we deal with these things? Well, if your goal is to win as much as possible (which is mine) then it doesn't matter how you do it. I'm not advocating for throwing away technique, I'm just advocating for using the strategy which will be most effective. Knowing that you have a plan b for how to play when plan a is not working can give you a lot more confidence. These are things that you can think about ahead of time. What shots are most reliable for you? For example, I have a friend who has a one-handed backhand, (he played club for Stanford, went to nationals for them, so pretty high level). I remember where we used to train our coach was talking about plan a and plan b and he asked this guy what are you going to do if you're not making a lot of backhands? The dude immediately responds: "well my slice is a lot more consistent than my topspin, so if I'm missing too many backhands I need to hit more slices, go back to what is comfortable." Similarly, there was a girl there who ended up playing for University of Tennessee who said that when she's not making enough balls she adds more height to all her shots to give herself more margin. These aren't complicated strategies or ideas, but what is most important about this story is that they had immediate answers to this question. You need to have these ideas ingrained in your mind so when you are missing too many balls you automatically adjust to give yourself the best chance to win the match.

In summary, try to approach the match with the mentality that it's most fulfilling to win the match when you aren't playing your best. Know what will make you put the most balls in play and go to that base when your plan a is not working well.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Its not that I think im better with someone whos strokes are not as advanced or technically good as mine, I know someone with 10 or 15 years tennis experience will most likely beat me easily.
Infact even that iRacer youtube guy has meh strokes, they are pretty decent overall but technique wise he still has many things that are not that good and looks very robotic, and yet hes UTR9 or UTR10 and would beat me easily, but I would still have the same thing in mind.
So its not about me thinking I should beat someone who has not as good technical strokes as mine, im not so ignorant, it has more to do with the fact how im perceived by other people when losing to such players, people who watch me and see my strokes look good and then I lose to someone whos don't look quite as good and people who don't hit nearly as hard as me and the thought of what those people might think is the core issue, thinking how pathetic that I lose to someone like that or something to that extent, having such good strokes and hitting so much harder or better and yet losing.
So it has more to do with how other people perceive this, and alot of people are not that experienced in tennis and are clueless about such stuff, so they always ask me how could you lose to that guy? and stuff like that.. how can that not irritate me? and then make me self conscious?

Its the same idea of why I used to be fearing losing 0:6 or 1:6 and even to the point where I almost would be more happy to lose 3:6 even if I played worse than when I lost 1:6 just becuase most ppl are ignorant and think the result shows how good you played or how much better someone was, and everyone always ASKS me the result and then assume I played like cr*p and that the other guy is way better.. and it really gets under my skin, but im slowly starting to ignore such people and focus only on miself and my own level, regardless of the result, its just a bit hard sometimes, you always have that in the back of ur mind of people judging u based on the score or something and so ur afraid of that.

I hope this makes sense.

Tennis is a lonely sport and you're out there on the court all by yourself battling it out. Ergo, you have to play for yourself and not for what people may say. People always have opinions, more so the ones who aren't playing or don't play well. Just ignore them. On the court, you must give undivided attention of your mind to the game. And one point at a time.

Another thing. It doesn't matter if you win 6-0 or 7-6. A win is a win. And no shame in losing either. Tell those idiots that Fed has lost to Stakhovsky at Wimbledon. How could the GOAT lose to a journeyman on his strongest surface? Nadal lost to Darcis that same year. This is just a part of sport.

I am not a big believer in yogababble but one useful thing I was taught in yoga class was to be able to observe yourself in the moment. That is, observing like a third person and not getting caught up in the emotions. That is what you need in tennis. Think with a cool mind about what is working and what isn't and keep plugging away. Don't let disappointment or ecstasy overwhelm you.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Good advice. However, i think people are usually good only certain things. I am a baseliner and i cant really hit good drop shots or attacking slice. Trying this in a match will probably have negative effect on my game.
So maybe, do everything in your repertoire, go for riskier shots, and if those don't work, accept that you lose .

As mcs said, it's less about the quality of drop shots but thinking about hitting one which will help you identify opportunities to win a point. In my experience, it takes a lot to hit an outright baseline winner in sets. I mean, like a groundstroke struck from the baseline and right into an open slot. There is no harm in aspiring for that. But in the meantime:

1. When there is a short ball, attack it well. A good approach already sets up a good opportunity to volley.
2. When your opponent is at his backhand corner and hitting a high bouncing ball to your backhand, that's a good opportunity to hit a short slice. Which effectively becomes a drop shot.
3. Another drop opportunity can be when you are taking on a short ball with your opponent behind the baseline. Set up a forehand and then just take away all the power out of it. Open the face a little to cut it rather than brushing it.
4. When opponent is at net, either lob him or get your passing shot right at him to make the volley tough for him.

These are simple thumbrules that should improve your chances of winning points, irrespective of game style of what your strokes are like.

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Oh I know why im so tight sometimes.

Since I have high goals and practice alot, I have high expectations, and I feel embarassed to lose to people who have worse strokes than me yet play tennis for 10 times longer than me, I still feel deflated and feel like my self image is bad then and people will find it funny and embarassing how someone like me with such advanced strokes can lose to such hackers.

Why does this matter? Honestly. Your self image should have nothing to do with what people MIGHT think about you. This doesn't just go for tennis, it's a life lesson. The only one in your entire life you have to deal with is yourself.

Thats why when I play players like UTR8 guy I played twice, or even some higher ones, or the UTR13 guy I played twice, I play much better overall, doesn't matter if I lose, but my strokes and feeling on court, feeling excited, comfortable and hyped, and in the zone, excited, wanting to prove miself and super hyped super energized, and yet completely relaxed and loose because even if I get murdered 0:6 0:6 its expected because hes so much better so I don't care.

You play better against them because you don't threaten them nearly enough to try and play to win. They aren't doing anything to break your game, because they know there is no teeth to your bite. If I play against someone I know I'm going to bagel, I'm just going to keep rolling balls in play crosscourt, and occasionally hit an approach or volley. Rallies are over before I really get into them. If I'm playing to kill, I'm throwing the whole kitchen sink at them. Short slices, moonballs, down the line shots, playing on the rise. I find their weakness and attack it. I throw off their tempo. I never give them a rhythm and I never let them get comfortable if I have a say in it. If I know I'm going to win for free, I don't need to make them uncomfortable.

But against players that are worse (even if they play for 15 or 20 years and actually are better tennis players than me at the moment) it feels embarassing to lose to them, not because I don't respect their level and all, because my strokes look much more advanced and losing to people like that would make me look silly for other people watching or whatever, like how could he lose to that guy?

But I think my mentality today (the one you quoted) was much better overall and much more mature, I will keep working in this direction and ignoring all other things like opponent, score etc... but focus only on miself, my game, the ball etc...

Again, why does this matter? Some of my friends could beat me with whatever they want. They can dink me to death, lob me to death, slice me to death. They don't need to use their "pretty" or "advanced" strokes to beat me. They just need to play better tennis than me, which is independent of what your stroke looks like. Santoro would bagel ALL OF US. He would golden set many of us. I don't feel worse losing to Santoro than if I lost to Safin on when Safin plays his best tennis. Both of them won't let me play tennis, and both of them are equally frustrating to play against in a competitive setting.

You really need to care less about what others think. If they think they're better than you even though their strokes "look better" or "are more advanced", even after you beat them, then tell them "okay, beat me with those fancy strokes of yours." One of my friends doesn't have the "best" forehand technically. There is room for improvement. But I guarantee he hits that thing harder, deeper, and most importantly - more consistently than most players on TTW.

Its not that I think im better with someone whos strokes are not as advanced or technically good as mine, I know someone with 10 or 15 years tennis experience will most likely beat me easily.
Infact even that iRacer youtube guy has meh strokes, they are pretty decent overall but technique wise he still has many things that are not that good and looks very robotic, and yet hes UTR9 or UTR10 and would beat me easily, but I would still have the same thing in mind.
So its not about me thinking I should beat someone who has not as good technical strokes as mine, im not so ignorant, it has more to do with the fact how im perceived by other people when losing to such players, people who watch me and see my strokes look good and then I lose to someone whos don't look quite as good and people who don't hit nearly as hard as me and the thought of what those people might think is the core issue, thinking how pathetic that I lose to someone like that or something to that extent, having such good strokes and hitting so much harder or better and yet losing.
So it has more to do with how other people perceive this, and alot of people are not that experienced in tennis and are clueless about such stuff, so they always ask me how could you lose to that guy? and stuff like that.. how can that not irritate me? and then make me self conscious?

Its the same idea of why I used to be fearing losing 0:6 or 1:6 and even to the point where I almost would be more happy to lose 3:6 even if I played worse than when I lost 1:6 just becuase most ppl are ignorant and think the result shows how good you played or how much better someone was, and everyone always ASKS me the result and then assume I played like cr*p and that the other guy is way better.. and it really gets under my skin, but im slowly starting to ignore such people and focus only on miself and my own level, regardless of the result, its just a bit hard sometimes, you always have that in the back of ur mind of people judging u based on the score or something and so ur afraid of that.

I hope this makes sense.

You tell these people, "you try beating him." If you lose 1-6 and didn't play poorly, you just replay "he played very well and/or very smart." They beat you, they beat you. They were the better tennis player that day. That may or may not be the case tomorrow, you'll have to play again to find out. I know you probably realize this already, but the sooner you ditch that fragile ego that is so tied to the evaluations of people who you don't know and don't know anything about the sport, the sooner you'll play better tennis and win more matches. It might not be prettier tennis, but it'll be better tennis.

 

[Morch Us]

@FiReFTW
The worst part is that... "others" don't really care about your results anywhere close to what you think. Only you will remember your match result and score after a week. "Others" wont....

You really need to care less about what others think.

 

[FiReFTW]

Yeah you all have great points, and alot to contemplate and think about.
Your all right about everything you say of course, so I will just need to work on this and shift my mentality.
I dont know why im so concerned what others think of me so much, but i realize its a self destructing way of thinking, so at least I realize it, now i just need to figure out how to get rid of it.
I guess I just also have this sense of belonging, that I want to belong somewhere with people that play good tennis and not feel like I dont belong at times when i dont play well.

Il quote more ppl later cuz im busy

It's true for pros too. As I said, Federer can make the world #10 look like trash.


What's the goal here for FireFTW? He's mentioned he wants to be a 5.0. Is he trying to be a pro? If 5.0 is the goal, can't he get valuable lessons from watching other 5.0s and realizing that you can win with safe high error margin shots rather than have to hit like pros? Who cares that a 5.5 can make Brian Su look bad?

Its not about that, I dont quite agree with you if im understanding you correctly.

If someone strives to achieve the highest level possible (which is what my goal is, its not 5.0, yes I said reaching 5.0 would be great and its a goal of sorts but the main goal is maximizing my game and reaching my max level possible, whether its 5.0 or whatever) then you should strive to achieve the best strokes possible right? Dont you agree?

Like if someone would want to achieve 3.5 at least, and he had a pancake serve of 70mph, and he was working hard on making the serve into a correct motion and all, would you say like, hey why bother ur serve is good enough for 3.5 or would you encourage him to improve it because the better any stroke is the better it is for you and your level, or?

 

[Flootoo]

I was playing a retired policeman. Got up to 3-0 ahead, then he won 7-5. We only had an hour, so we're picking up later this week.
It's very frustrating- I kept feeding him easy balls to the T.

I don't mind losing, actually I hate it, but I really REALLY hate making all these mistakes. I have to work on letting go and playing point by point.

 

[FiReFTW]

The actual problem is "expectations".
Set yourself goals(if you have to), but not expectations.

The more you are "supposed to" make a shot, the more pressure you are putting yourself into.
The more you are "supposed to" win against someone, the more pressure you are putting yourself into.

Very very true, just need to focus on the ball intenesely and think point by point and distract miself from such thinking about the score and opponent and all.

@FiReFTW
The worst part is that... "others" don't really care about your results anywhere close to what you think. Only you will remember your match result and score after a week. "Others" wont....

True but its still annoying when they ask result and i say 2:6 and they are like damn and you player pretty bad huh and so..
My girl friend when i told her im competing in league this summer for the first time was like ur gonna do good and have many wins and when i lost a match against someone she was like wow really etc..
And its just pointless to explain things like thst to people who are clueless but its annoying.

You play better against them because you don't threaten them nearly enough to try and play to win. They aren't doing anything to break your game, because they know there is no teeth to your bite. If I play against someone I know I'm going to bagel, I'm just going to keep rolling balls in play crosscourt, and occasionally hit an approach or volley. Rallies are over before I really get into them. If I'm playing to kill, I'm throwing the whole kitchen sink at them. Short slices, moonballs, down the line shots, playing on the rise. I find their weakness and attack it. I throw off their tempo. I never give them a rhythm and I never let them get comfortable if I have a say in it. If I know I'm going to win for free, I don't need to make them uncomfortable.


You really need to care less about what others think. If they think they're better than you even though their strokes "look better" or "are more advanced", even after you beat them, then tell them "okay, beat me with those fancy strokes of yours." One of my friends doesn't have the "best" forehand technically. There is room for improvement. But I guarantee he hits that thing harder, deeper, and most importantly - more consistently than most players on TTW.



You tell these people, "you try beating him." If you lose 1-6 and didn't play poorly, you just replay "he played very well and/or very smart." They beat you, they beat you. They were the better tennis player that day. That may or may not be the case tomorrow, you'll have to play again to find out. I know you probably realize this already, but the sooner you ditch that fragile ego that is so tied to the evaluations of people who you don't know and don't know anything about the sport, the sooner you'll play better tennis and win more matches. It might not be prettier tennis, but it'll be better tennis.

Not true at all ive played two juniors a few times from a guy i know coaching them and they played 100% full out, not just keep the ball in play, they played super aggressive, he even said when i told him im gonna practice my kick serve against them, that if i want to fine but they wont go easy on me at all, so whatever i want, but i told him result doesnt matter im just there playing to improve.

Your point about explaining that to ppl and tell them its not like they think and they should play him etc is good but its frustrsting to having to tell them that and they dont get it anyway. Im just losing my energy and frustration to even try to explain, ive tried enough times before.

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

If someone strives to achieve the highest level possible (which is what my goal is, its not 5.0, yes I said reaching 5.0 would be great and its a goal of sorts but the main goal is maximizing my game and reaching my max level possible, whether its 5.0 or whatever) then you should strive to achieve the best strokes possible right? Dont you agree?

If Murray can reach world #1, and Santoro can make as many main draws in majors as he did, and Nadal could do as well as he did with the serve he had prior to 2010, achieving the best strokes don't necessarily get you to the top. The fact is, you'll never get to the level where your level can no longer be quantified by your ranking (world #1). As such, reaching the highest level means adopting whatever wins the most matches, and fixing what isn't sufficient to compete at the next highest level. Edberg reached world number 1 with his continental forehand, against the likes of Becker, Lendl, Sampras, Agassi, and Courier. Clearly, optimal technique isn't what's important, being able to compete is. Having better tools is great, but being able to win with fewer tools is what defines a great player.

Not true at all ive played two juniors a few times from a guy i know coaching them and they played 100% full out, not just keep the ball in play, they played super aggressive, he even said when i told him im gonna practice my kick serve against them, that if i want to fine but they wont go easy on me at all, so whatever i want, but i told him result doesnt matter im just there playing to improve.

Your point about explaining that to ppl and tell them its not like they think and they should play him etc is good but its frustrsting to having to tell them that and they dont get it anyway. Im just losing my energy and frustration to even try to explain, ive tried enough times before.

There's a difference between going all out against someone weaker than you and someone you recognize as a real competitive threat. Otherwise, they'd give you the same exact balls you lose to from hackers, only faster and with more spin. And as a result, you wouldn't mind playing against the hackers or losing to them.

And if they're too stupid to understand after a simple, comprehensive statement, they're not worth your time. They simply don't know how competition works. Which shouldn't be surprising, since a lot of people who compete still don't know how competition works.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Yeah you all have great points, and alot to contemplate and think about.
Your all right about everything you say of course, so I will just need to work on this and shift my mentality.
I dont know why im so concerned what others think of me so much, but i realize its a self destructing way of thinking, so at least I realize it, now i just need to figure out how to get rid of it.
I guess I just also have this sense of belonging, that I want to belong somewhere with people that play good tennis and not feel like I dont belong at times when i dont play well.


If someone strives to achieve the highest level possible (which is what my goal is, its not 5.0, yes I said reaching 5.0 would be great and its a goal of sorts but the main goal is maximizing my game and reaching my max level possible, whether its 5.0 or whatever) then you should strive to achieve the best strokes possible right? Dont you agree?

Like if someone would want to achieve 3.5 at least, and he had a pancake serve of 70mph, and he was working hard on making the serve into a correct motion and all, would you say like, hey why bother ur serve is good enough for 3.5 or would you encourage him to improve it because the better any stroke is the better it is for you and your level, or?

What would you do then when you reach the goal? If you max out your ability, wouldn't the sport you love start becoming boring? Think instead, as another poster suggested, of tennis as a gift. And it's a gift indeed. There are those who can no longer play it or are unable to do the things they need to get into some decent shape or cannot make coordinated strokes. I read of a wealthy entrepreneur who had to give up tennis because he changed racquets and ended up getting TE (wonder if it was a Bab!). Enjoy this gift while you can. Your problem is right in the para where you describe seeking a sense of belonging. You associate being at a high level in tennis with being in a club, with a prestige of a certain kind. But who outside your small tennis circle even knows there are levels and levels within recreational tennis? They probably think it's just something you do for fun. And they are not wrong in a way because that's all it should be. Not saying it's fun to play crap day in day out but that having bad days shouldn't be a source of frustration. That means you are missing the big picture.

 

[FiReFTW]

What would you do then when you reach the goal? If you max out your ability, wouldn't the sport you love start becoming boring?

No because theres always something to improve.

 

[FiReFTW]

There's a difference between going all out against someone weaker than you and someone you recognize as a real competitive threat. Otherwise, they'd give you the same exact balls you lose to from hackers, only faster and with more spin. And as a result, you wouldn't mind playing against the hackers or losing to them.

And if they're too stupid to understand after a simple, comprehensive statement, they're not worth your time. They simply don't know how competition works. Which shouldn't be surprising, since a lot of people who compete still don't know how competition works.

Lol ok, those points are valid, but you do know they are 12-14year old kids right?

 

[mcs1970]

.

Its not about that, I dont quite agree with you if im understanding you correctly.

If someone strives to achieve the highest level possible (which is what my goal is, its not 5.0, yes I said reaching 5.0 would be great and its a goal of sorts but the main goal is maximizing my game and reaching my max level possible, whether its 5.0 or whatever) then you should strive to achieve the best strokes possible right? Dont you agree?

Like if someone would want to achieve 3.5 at least, and he had a pancake serve of 70mph, and he was working hard on making the serve into a correct motion and all, would you say like, hey why bother ur serve is good enough for 3.5 or would you encourage him to improve it because the better any stroke is the better it is for you and your level, or?

I didn’t say anything about strokes. I am talking about consistency as a base. I pointed to Brian Su to show that you can get to a 5.0 level by playing a style that gives you a lot of margin for error. Even pros give themselves good margin for error but they have more pace and have to react quicker.

If you want to emulate how pros play and try to hit a bit more flatter with a lot of pace, that’s fine. However realize that they already have the ability to play the easier consistent game that Brian has. Do you?

 

[Dolgopolov85]

No because theres always something to improve.

you just said your goal is to become the best player you can be and you seek to measure that achievement in terms of form. Realise that that kind of improvement is finite. You don't know it yet but a few years down the line, you will.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Lol ok, those points are valid, but you do know they are 12-14year old kids right?

Well then, why would you care at all what annoying teens think? Just challenge them to a match. That should shut them up. And if it doesn't, just stop giving a ****.

 

[Morch Us]

You are asking for too much trouble calling her clueless not worth it man....
You are far better off not talking tennis with her.... or if she ask... just keep it real short.

Just say you lost because you were bored in court and just wanted come out fast and spend time with her .. which is kind of true... right?

My girl friend when i told her im competing in league this summer for the first time was like ur gonna do good and have many wins and when i lost a match against someone she was like wow really etc..
And its just pointless to explain things like thst to people who are clueless but its annoying.

 

[mcs1970]

Not true at all ive played two juniors a few times from a guy i know coaching them and they played 100% full out, not just keep the ball in play, they played super aggressive, he even said when i told him im gonna practice my kick serve against them, that if i want to fine but they wont go easy on me at all, so whatever i want, but i told him result doesnt matter im just there playing to improve.

Your point about explaining that to ppl and tell them its not like they think and they should play him etc is good but its frustrsting to having to tell them that and they dont get it anyway. Im just losing my energy and frustration to even try to explain, ive tried enough times before.

Let's be honest. Despite your protests to the contrary, you really believe that because you have a certain natural fluidity it should automatically translate into becoming a higher level player quicker. There are no shortcuts my friend. A lot of your posts mock how most on this forum underrate better players. You are no different though you don't realize it. Else you'd not be dismissive of 5.0s who don't play a super aggressive style. You'd respect that fact that they have got to a point which you might never ever get to despite all your natural fluidity. Also a lot of your posts seem to take pride in how you either beat or gave a tough time to someone who has played 10-12 years, because it gives you the feeling that you have something special going for you. I personally know a couple of guys in their early 40s who have started in the last couple of years and will beat you right now based on what I've seen of your videos. They will lose to you down the road only because age will be a factor. Not because your strokes are better or have more upside.

Once you realize how insignificant what you are trying to do is and how there are tons of players just like you out there, you'll begin to enjoy the process more. As I keep saying, don't end up like TTPS.

 

[ptuanminh]

The more you get yo ass kicked, the less expectations you will get stepping on court .

 

[FiReFTW]

Well then, why would you care at all what annoying teens think? Just challenge them to a match. That should shut them up. And if it doesn't, just stop giving a ****.

I don't care what they think, I think you missunderstood, I said these kids are UTR8+ so I don't care if I lose since its expected, so I play freely, no worries, no pressure, just play and swing out, different than against someone much weaker where I feel pressure and the desire to beat them and not lose.

.

I didn’t say anything about strokes. I am talking about consistency as a base. I pointed to Brian Su to show that you can get to a 5.0 level by playing a style that gives you a lot of margin for error. Even pros give themselves good margin for error but they have more pace and have to react quicker.

If you want to emulate how pros play and try to hit a bit more flatter with a lot of pace, that’s fine. However realize that they already have the ability to play the easier consistent game that Brian has. Do you?

I have no clue who Brian is, do you have any youtube links?

I know consistency is very important, and building points is important, im working towards that, I used to try to hit winners off every ball but now im learning slowly that its not about that at all.

But there are different types of styles of players, and you build ur strokes and game depending on ur strenghts and the type of player you strive to be right?

My role model is Federer and I just happen to have a very good serve and forehand, and I also like to play all over the court so I strive to play a more aggressive based all court game, and that doesn't mean ball bashing, but controled aggression, smart aggression, defense when needed, but when the oportunity is there no hesitation to attack or even risk a bit at times.

Let's be honest. Despite your protests to the contrary, you really believe that because you have a certain natural fluidity it should automatically translate into becoming a higher level player quicker. There are no shortcuts my friend. A lot of your posts mock how most on this forum underrate better players. You are no different though you don't realize it. Else you'd not be dismissive of 5.0s who don't play a super aggressive style. You'd respect that fact that they have got to a point which you might never ever get to despite all your natural fluidity. Also a lot of your posts seem to take pride in how you either beat or gave a tough time to someone who has played 10-12 years, because it gives you the feeling that you have something special going for you. I personally know a couple of guys in their early 40s who have started in the last couple of years and will beat you right now based on what I've seen of your videos. They will lose to you down the road only because age will be a factor. Not because your strokes are better or have more upside.

Once you realize how insignificant what you are trying to do is and how there are tons of players just like you out there, you'll begin to enjoy the process more. As I keep saying, don't end up like TTPS.

No I don't think that at all, your way wrong.

I don't think it should translate into me becoming a higher level player quicker, infact if anything it should take longer, because im working on building higher level strokes such as a quality kick serve, if I wanted to simply be a better player quicker I would simply push the 2nd serve in and I would be much better match level wise, but the goal is higher and that takes better strokes and longer development even if in the short term its not the best for results wise.

But I do believe my ceiling is much better having higher level technique and strokes than if I didn't, someone who has alot of mechanical and technical issues and/or doesn't have naturaly as much talent or fluidity of strokes has a lower ceiling, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL.

Someone who has a very good technique and form on the serve and can serve lets say 120mph (not talking miself), and has good technique on both forehand and backhand, good volleys, proper and good footwork etc etc... will have a much higher ceiling than someone with a pancake serve, with bunty fh and bunty backhand etc... no matter what you say, those are just facts.

Yes there are a ton of players, some very high level players who have big flaws in their shots and no weapons or this or that, but they are not the majority and thats the fact, they are such higher level DESPITE those things, because they might have superior athleticism, or superior shot selection or whatever, but all things equal, better serve = better level, better forehand = better level etc... surely you realize that?

So I think your view of "this stroke is good enough for that level so no need to improve it" is flawed, you should strive to improve your strokes no matter how good they become, even federer keeps improving his strokes and making changes and improvements.

BUT, I also think its important to realize that just like better strokes will make you better or give u higher potential, so will many other things such as athleticism, endurance, footwork, tactics, shot selection etc.... so equally important than building and working on and improving ur strokes, is also working on all those other things, its a flaw to ignore them and focus just on strokes.

And I do respect those 5.0 like iRacer who just keep the ball in play and play a defensive style... I respect 4.5 players equally, 4.0 players also.. I don't disrespect players, everyone deserves respect that put their time and effort into something they love, their passion, which is tennis.

I find your view odd about being prideful about beating someone who plays for a long time, of course I feel prideful, ive put alot of effort into tennis and I love it and getting such good results or unexpected successes is a very good reward and of course I feel proud.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

I don't care what they think, I think you missunderstood, I said these kids are UTR8+ so I don't care if I lose since its expected, so I play freely, no worries, no pressure, just play and swing out, different than against someone much weaker where I feel pressure and the desire to beat them and not lose.



I have no clue who Brian is, do you have any youtube links?

I know consistency is very important, and building points is important, im working towards that, I used to try to hit winners off every ball but now im learning slowly that its not about that at all.

But there are different types of styles of players, and you build ur strokes and game depending on ur strenghts and the type of player you strive to be right?

My role model is Federer and I just happen to have a very good serve and forehand, and I also like to play all over the court so I strive to play a more aggressive based all court game, and that doesn't mean ball bashing, but controled aggression, smart aggression, defense when needed, but when the oportunity is there no hesitation to attack or even risk a bit at times.



No I don't think that at all, your way wrong.

I don't think it should translate into me becoming a higher level player quicker, infact if anything it should take longer, because im working on building higher level strokes such as a quality kick serve, if I wanted to simply be a better player quicker I would simply push the 2nd serve in and I would be much better match level wise, but the goal is higher and that takes better strokes and longer development even if in the short term its not the best for results wise.

But I do believe my ceiling is much better having higher level technique and strokes than if I didn't, someone who has alot of mechanical and technical issues and/or doesn't have naturaly as much talent or fluidity of strokes has a lower ceiling, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL.

Someone who has a very good technique and form on the serve and can serve lets say 120mph (not talking miself), and has good technique on both forehand and backhand, good volleys, proper and good footwork etc etc... will have a much higher ceiling than someone with a pancake serve, with bunty fh and bunty backhand etc... no matter what you say, those are just facts.

Yes there are a ton of players, some very high level players who have big flaws in their shots and no weapons or this or that, but they are not the majority and thats the fact, they are such higher level DESPITE those things, because they might have superior athleticism, or superior shot selection or whatever, but all things equal, better serve = better level, better forehand = better level etc... surely you realize that?

So I think your view of "this stroke is good enough for that level so no need to improve it" is flawed, you should strive to improve your strokes no matter how good they become, even federer keeps improving his strokes and making changes and improvements.

BUT, I also think its important to realize that just like better strokes will make you better or give u higher potential, so will many other things such as athleticism, endurance, footwork, tactics, shot selection etc.... so equally important than building and working on and improving ur strokes, is also working on all those other things, its a flaw to ignore them and focus just on strokes.

And I do respect those 5.0 like iRacer who just keep the ball in play and play a defensive style... I respect 4.5 players equally, 4.0 players also.. I don't disrespect players, everyone deserves respect that put their time and effort into something they love, their passion, which is tennis.

I find your view odd about being prideful about beating someone who plays for a long time, of course I feel prideful, ive put alot of effort into tennis and I love it and getting such good results or unexpected successes is a very good reward and of course I feel proud.

Re technique, there's a middle ground between bad technique and fluid modern strokes. Old school technique isn't really taught anymore by coaches but it can be highly effective too, at the rec level. You will find a lot of players, especially older players, who have neither ATP nor WTA forehand and are none the worse for it.

 

[FiReFTW]

Re technique, there's a middle ground between bad technique and fluid modern strokes. Old school technique isn't really taught anymore by coaches but it can be highly effective too, at the rec level. You will find a lot of players, especially older players, who have neither ATP nor WTA forehand and are none the worse for it.

Sure theres alot of ways to skin the cat, but I was specifically talking about fundamental flaws, theres alot of players who have alot of fundamental flaws and very sub optimal strokes and non effective strokes and no weapons and anything, but they are smart, they understand tennis, good shot selection, great athletes and other variables, which make them very good players.

Im just saying if something you have is better or if you keep improving it, you will become better, no two ways about it.. whether its your forehand or your serve, or your focus, or your footwork, or your athleticism, shot selection whatever, you should never be like "this is enough for x level, so its fine, why bother making it better", that was my point.

 

[mcs1970]

@FiReFTW So I think your view of "this stroke is good enough for that level so no need to improve it" is flawed,


I have never said the above. Your obsession with certain strokes is causing you to not read what I am saying.

 

[FiReFTW]

@FiReFTW So I think your view of "this stroke is good enough for that level so no need to improve it" is flawed,


I have never said the above. Your obsession with certain strokes is causing you to not read what I am saying.

Thats just how I read into it.

 

[user92626]

@FiReFTW

I think @mcs1970 was only trying to help you, give you his advises based on what you showed and he saw. For what it's worth, that's what "a third" person sees from you.

For me I would appreciate any input anyone takes time to give, and ..do some filtering and move on. Considering, perspectives are often very subjective, then comes the ability to apply stuff advised, and plus one's own biased interests in this hobby (some advice perfectly legit and important but completely uninteresting to a rec player), ...there's just too much variables, I don't know why anyone would get hyper up for it.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Sure theres alot of ways to skin the cat, but I was specifically talking about fundamental flaws, theres alot of players who have alot of fundamental flaws and very sub optimal strokes and non effective strokes and no weapons and anything, but they are smart, they understand tennis, good shot selection, great athletes and other variables, which make them very good players.

Im just saying if something you have is better or if you keep improving it, you will become better, no two ways about it.. whether its your forehand or your serve, or your focus, or your footwork, or your athleticism, shot selection whatever, you should never be like "this is enough for x level, so its fine, why bother making it better", that was my point.

What though is a fundamental flaw? There are people who say Graf had a very late contact on her forehand and no coach would teach you to hit like that but at that time, it was considered the best forehand on the women's side.

Based on your videos, if what you set out to achieve was to have technique that isn't extremely compromised, you have probably already achieved that. What you also need now is to work out how you want to play in matches so as to win. Because let me tell you, unless you have the biggest shots among all the recs in your era, you will probably not play in matches the way you play in practice and will need to work out a strategy for that.

 

[Slicerman]

As I'm getting better at tennis, I feel like most of my bad outcomes are a result of poor mental game. Physically and technically my game has become pretty well-rounded, but I mainly lose due to things like poor shot selection, playing too big/risky for the situation, playing too timid/safe for the situation, underestimating my opponent, inability to control emotions/frustration, getting demoralized, applying the wrong strategy and the list goes on. Of course you can increase your chances by raising your level, but its not realistic to boost your skills during a match, its more viable to improve your mentality, that is the one thing that can be the difference maker. These days I'm starting to feel like tennis is 90% mentality. Maybe make a list of the things that are affecting you, then try to come up with solutions. There's a good reason why many top tennis players are pretty humble and always respect their opponents, if you underestimate your opponent and then you start losing to them, then its easy to get frustrated, mentally implode and the rest is history.

 

[ontologist]

@FiReFTW drink a beer and get over it like an adult.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I dont know why im so concerned what others think of me so much, but i realize its a self destructing way of thinking, so at least I realize it, now i just need to figure out how to get rid of it.
I guess I just also have this sense of belonging, that I want to belong somewhere with people that play good tennis and not feel like I dont belong at times when i dont play well.

Of all of the introspective things you've posted, I think now you're getting to the core of the problem.

There are people who are oblivious to their own ups and downs and constantly judge other people. I try to avoid them. Most everyone else accepts that they will have big ups and downs and therefore, so will everyone else. Once you accept that, it should reduce your anxiety about others thinking you don't belong.

Do others in your group actually shun you when you play badly?

Do you feel like they are whispering behind your back "Did you see @FiReFTW lose to that UTR 5 hack with the terrible FH?? What a waste of lessons."? I highly doubt they are thinking that. Because they all know what it's like to suck on occasion so they have some empathy [there are the rare few who have no empathy; again, avoid them].

I think you're finally on the right track mentally.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Your point about explaining that to ppl and tell them its not like they think and they should play him etc is good but its frustrsting to having to tell them that and they dont get it anyway. Im just losing my energy and frustration to even try to explain, ive tried enough times before.

So stop expending energy and causing frustration by explaining. Don't justify yourself. Think of all of that energy you can now use for something productive.