Re-starting Arizona State men's tennis

G

Golden_state_of_mind

Rookie
So I recently moved to the Tempe area and have been working with ASU athletics. I have got together a few people who want to re-instate the men's tennis program. I think that they should considering the resources the school has. makes no sense that the nation's highest enrolled school doesn't have a men's tennis program.

what do you think? would you like to help?
 
C

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
You will have to convince them to fund some new women's sport in addition to reviving the men's tennis team. I think you should start by investigating the financial picture for the athletic department as a whole. Are they turning a profit, or getting subsidized by university funds?
 
G

Golden_state_of_mind

Rookie
Arizona State has plenty of women's sports. The issue was a title nine one, but ASU dosent even have men's soccer do really the amount of men's scholarships is low.
 
L

lstewart

Semi-Pro
You are forgetting football. I don't know the specific title 9 language, but I think basically similar totals have to be offered for men and women. Since football has 80 or more on scholarship, that means that women programs are allocated more in the other sports. I assume they have a balance now between the men and women. So, if they are going to start spending on men's tennis, they will either have to spend more on women's sports, or drop some other men's sport. The have to maintain that balance. In Arkansas almost all of the men's tennis programs at the state funded schools have been dropped over the years.
 
G

Golden_state_of_mind

Rookie
lstewart said:
You are forgetting football. I don't know the specific title 9 language, but I think basically similar totals have to be offered for men and women. Since football has 80 or more on scholarship, that means that women programs are allocated more in the other sports. I assume they have a balance now between the men and women. So, if they are going to start spending on men's tennis, they will either have to spend more on women's sports, or drop some other men's sport. The have to maintain that balance. In Arkansas almost all of the men's tennis programs at the state funded schools have been dropped over the years.
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But Arkansas has tennis yes. Men;s tennis is only 4.5 scholarships and has a very small operating budget, I have never understood schools dropping the tennis program.

Right now ASU has 8 men's programs and 13 women's programs. I understand the football element, but every school in the country that has football deals with that.

The big scholarship eater for ASU is wrestling. However this is off-set by the women's sand volleyball team, which is a very niche sport.
 
L

lstewart

Semi-Pro
You are preaching to the choir. The University of Arkansas plays men's tennis. When I was playing at another state school, there were probably 10 or so other state funded colleges in Arkansas playing men's tennis that have dropped their programs. The 4.5 scholarships are not a lot, but the total budget won't be small. Coaches, travel, team materials, probably several hundred thousand dollars for a total budget for a BCS conference D1 program.
 
G

Golden_state_of_mind

Rookie
It won't be small, but no more than baseball, which is the biggest money loser for most major universities.
It's interesting what you say about Arkansas because now that I think about the Backs are the only ones I know of with a men's tennis team.
But that's not the issue in Arizona as UA and NAU both have teams
 
L

lstewart

Semi-Pro
I played long ago, and then helped keep my former school's program going while an administrator there. They dropped it about the time I left, which was probably around the time most of the other state programs were dropped. I've got a son who is a senior in high school, so I had talked to many of the AD's at these schools last year asking if they might consider bringing back men's tennis. Several of them said they would love to, but all said they could not afford it. Would either have to add another women's sport, or drop some other men's sport. All these school's play men's golf, which is the sport that survived instead of men's tennis. The issue for any school wanting to bring back men's tennis, or start a program, is maintaining the title 9 balance. Assuming they are in balance in their total program before adding men's tennis, they are either going to have to add another women's program, or drop one of the existing men's programs. That's why almost no state schools bring it back.
 
N

NickC

Professional
Golden_state_of_mind said:
Arizona State has plenty of women's sports. The issue was a title nine one, but ASU dosent even have men's soccer do really the amount of men's scholarships is low.
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ASU and UA don't have men's soccer for a different reason than you'd expect - Real Salt Lake (the MLS team) has their development academy based in Casa Grande. Lots of the talent pool is sucked up by that program and is not a pipeline for college soccer, but for professional soccer (see Diskkerud, Mix or Red Bull New York's keeper). The ones that do play college soccer (and aren't being groomed to go pro) play for Pima County's community college, which happens to have the best community college soccer program in the country.

The big universities can't compete with that.

Golden_state_of_mind said:
But Arkansas has tennis yes. Men;s tennis is only 4.5 scholarships and has a very small operating budget, I have never understood schools dropping the tennis program.

Right now ASU has 8 men's programs and 13 women's programs. I understand the football element, but every school in the country that has football deals with that.

The big scholarship eater for ASU is wrestling. However this is off-set by the women's sand volleyball team, which is a very niche sport.
Click to expand...

We have the same thing - we wanted more scholarships for football players because the new coach wanted them, so we dropped a men's sport IIRC and added women's beach volleyball. Because honestly, who the f*ck plays collegiate women's beach volleyball? All of, like, 5 schools.

Golden_state_of_mind said:
It won't be small, but no more than baseball, which is the biggest money loser for most major universities.
It's interesting what you say about Arkansas because now that I think about the Backs are the only ones I know of with a men's tennis team.
But that's not the issue in Arizona as UA and NAU both have teams
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No we don't. In the years I spent studying out in Tucson, we had nothing that resembled a team. A few good players all wearing matching shirts and coached by a moron, yes. But a proper team? No.

lstewart said:
Baseball at Arkansas actually funds itself. Very successful program selling a lot of tickets.
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Same goes for the program we have in Tucson at UA. They won it all a few years ago and have quite the following. I don't know if they turn a profit, but they do generate some good revenue.
 
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PhxRacket

PhxRacket

Hall of Fame
When I learned that ASU had dropped men's tennis, I was shocked. I grew up in Phoenix and, as a ranked junior, loved the few chances I had to see the Sun Devils. Alas, that was all together too long ago. President Crow, BRING BACK MEN'S TENNIS. If you can afford a giant capital expenditure for a silly tarp for the football field, surely there is money for a men's tennis team. But, I digress. I would be in favor of men's tennis at ASU and I am a UA alum who bleeds red and blue.
 
C

Clemson_tennis

Legend
GSOM is correct in saying that baseball loses a ton of money. Even at Clemson, which has a pretty elite team most years and spends a lot of marketing and time making baseball popular on campus. Clemson fans love baseball. yet I heard from several in the athletic department that Clemson baseball still lost a lot of money each year.
 
A

andfor

Legend
lstewart said:
You are preaching to the choir. The University of Arkansas plays men's tennis. When I was playing at another state school, there were probably 10 or so other state funded colleges in Arkansas playing men's tennis that have dropped their programs. The 4.5 scholarships are not a lot, but the total budget won't be small. Coaches, travel, team materials, probably several hundred thousand dollars for a total budget for a BCS conference D1 program.
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U of Arkansas Pine Bluff DI and U of Arkansas Ft. Smith DII both have mens tennis. Southern Arkansas, UALR and Arkansas Tech have dropped mens tennis, UALR dropped both. Having trouble figuring out 4 more state schools there that had mens tennis, maybe AR State. Regardless, it's sad how there are only three state schools left in AR with mens tennis.
 
L

lstewart

Semi-Pro
I played for Southern Arkansas from 1976-1980. In those days UAM, Henderson State, UCA, and a couple of JUCO's also had men's teams. That's not including some small private in state schools that have dropped their men's teams as well.
 
B

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
lstewart said:
Baseball at Arkansas actually funds itself. Very successful program selling a lot of tickets.
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Maybe it does fund itself (various fundraisers, dontations, boosters, ticket sales), but I don't think it can do so just selling tickets, unless they are really expensive tickets.
 
L

lstewart

Semi-Pro
I don't have all the details, so I might not be giving entirely accurate information, but the word on campus is that the Razorback baseball program is on solid ground financially. We have one of the nicer college stadiums in the country, and there are a lot of tickets sold. In 2010 Arkansas was second in the country in attendance, averaging 7,700 fans per game. SEC 3 game weekend series probably average close to 10,000 fans per game. College baseball is popular here, and they generate a lot of revenue. My guess is they may be generating ticket sales in the 1.4 mil or more per season.
 
WARPWOODIE

WARPWOODIE

Rookie
On a side note...ASU is in the PAC 12 conference. What happens if they do re-start their program, does one of the two new (schools) that were added get dropped?...I believe it is Utah and Colorado.

And yes, it would be great to have ASU back!
 
TopDawg

TopDawg

G.O.A.T.
WARPWOODIE said:
On a side note...ASU is in the PAC 12 conference. What happens if they do re-start their program, does one of the two new (schools) that were added get dropped?...I believe it is Utah and Colorado.

And yes, it would be great to have ASU back!
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IF they were to come back then that would give the Pac 12 9 schools playing men's tennis. Colorado dropped it a few years back.
 
J

JLyon

Hall of Fame
andfor said:
U of Arkansas Pine Bluff DI and U of Arkansas Ft. Smith DII both have mens tennis. Southern Arkansas, UALR and Arkansas Tech have dropped mens tennis, UALR dropped both. Having trouble figuring out 4 more state schools there that had mens tennis, maybe AR State. Regardless, it's sad how there are only three state schools left in AR with mens tennis.
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State Schools: UA, UAPB, UAFS have teams
Private: Harding, Ouachita Baptist for D2

UCA once had men's tennis I believe years ago
Also Southern Arkansas also dropped their women's team last year I believe
 
Bdarb

Bdarb

Hall of Fame
title 9 is miserable for any school with a football program. Personally though it seems ridiculous to me that the third string outside linebacker and the backup punter need a full ride but they cant offer a couple kids tennis scholarships. Cut the scholarships, kids will still want to play football at a school like au, the backups anyway.
 
B

Bluefan75

Professional
Bdarb said:
title 9 is miserable for any school with a football program. Personally though it seems ridiculous to me that the third string outside linebacker and the backup punter need a full ride but they cant offer a couple kids tennis scholarships. Cut the scholarships, kids will still want to play football at a school like au, the backups anyway.
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The high chance of injury and the fact you can't just add and drop players is why you have so many football scholarships. That third string LB today is a freshman who might be your starter in a year or two.

The bigger issue is the way Title IX has been implemented by bureaucrats. Leads to cuts, cuts, cuts instead of actually increasing opportunities.
 
C

Clemson_tennis

Legend
PhxRacket said:
Yes! From what I understand, @Clemson_tennis is correct. Anything to do with staff, personnel or other athletic department policies?
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Yeah they will need to have some compliance work done with the addition of scholarships. Also add a senior staff member to oversee (or re-assign someone) and athletic training, SID etc. And of course they will need to hire a head coach and assistant. If I am Arizona State I go big on this hire. With the ITA in your backyard this is a chance to become a bit of a tennis titan. It will be hard to challenge the Cali big 4 but I would go after a big name to try and make ASU a consistent top 20 and pushing top 10 program.
 
PhxRacket

PhxRacket

Hall of Fame
I a
Clemson_tennis said:
Yeah they will need to have some compliance work done with the addition of scholarships. Also add a senior staff member to oversee (or re-assign someone) and athletic training, SID etc. And of course they will need to hire a head coach and assistant. If I am Arizona State I go big on this hire. With the ITA in your backyard this is a chance to become a bit of a tennis titan. It will be hard to challenge the Cali big 4 but I would go after a big name to try and make ASU a consistent top 20 and pushing top 10 program.
Click to expand...
I definitely agree with your last sentence. I feel like they can go big and very quickly compete with the rest of the PAC however many there are. There is a lot of pretty good tennis in the Valley of the Sun, and there are a dozen really good coaches. Keep an eye out. Would they play Grand Canyon or even Arizona Christian University as non conf dual matches?
 
A

andfor

Legend
Interesting if this is really developing. Last fall I heard the AD who had set the bar for donors to raise a certain amount (BIG $ number) to restart the mens program backed out when the donors came back to him with the cash, then raised the amount.
 
C

Clemson_tennis

Legend
PhxRacket said:
I a

I definitely agree with your last sentence. I feel like they can go big and very quickly compete with the rest of the PAC however many there are. There is a lot of pretty good tennis in the Valley of the Sun, and there are a dozen really good coaches. Keep an eye out. Would they play Grand Canyon or even Arizona Christian University as non conf dual matches?
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I am sure they would play Grand Canyon with the Lopes being in d1 now and having a decent team. Probably not Arizona Christian though.
 
atatu

atatu

Legend
Wow, I didn't even know Grand Canyon was an actual school, I thought it was just online like Phoenix University, learn something new every day.
 
2

2ndServe

Hall of Fame
atatu said:
Wow, I didn't even know Grand Canyon was an actual school, I thought it was just online like Phoenix University, learn something new every day.
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Ditto those commercials are so corny I almost thought it was a spoof, didn't think it was a real college either.
 
okdude1992

okdude1992

Hall of Fame
PhxRacket said:
I a

I definitely agree with your last sentence. I feel like they can go big and very quickly compete with the rest of the PAC however many there are. There is a lot of pretty good tennis in the Valley of the Sun, and there are a dozen really good coaches. Keep an eye out. Would they play Grand Canyon or even Arizona Christian University as non conf dual matches?
Click to expand...
Arizona Christian is pretty terrible. But GCU would probably be on the schedule if they get a team
 
B

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
atatu said:
http://www.thesundevils.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?id=5233198
http://www.itatennis.com/AboutITA/N...ennis_Association_Form_Strategic_Alliance.htm

Ok, still not hearing anyone confirm that they are going to re-start the men's program ?
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That article says everything but restarting the tennis program. But, it's interesting that the ITA would do this. ITA is housed at ASU and using ASU courts for these programs. So, does ASU get money directly from the ITA which would then be used to fund, at least partially, the men's program?
 
A

andfor

Legend
atatu said:
Is there some news ?
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What I've seen from recent articles is they want to build a new tennis center at ASU that will accommodate the teams and be publicly accessible. Due to space issues this will have to be on a corner of the campus where they have property available.

3rd hand sources and what you won't find published anywhere say they are about half way to raising the $20 million needed in donations to get the new facility going. If they raise the amount the men's team would come back, again 3rd hand sources so who knows.

http://www.thesundevils.com/ViewArt...22&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=30300&ATCLID=210903257
 
Nacho

Nacho

Hall of Fame
I am excited ASU got their team back! Not a fan but I will certainly keep up and hope they can be successful once again. I am however amazed at how much money they need to reinstate the team! Almost 2 mil, is that really what it is going to cost or is that just a number they put on it?
 
A

andfor

Legend
I believe a large portion of the donation target number is intended for an endowment fund with the idea the tennis teams will self-sustained long term.
 
Nacho

Nacho

Hall of Fame
andfor said:
I believe a large portion of the donation target number is intended for an endowment fund with the idea the tennis teams will self-sustained long term.
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Your right it is....just a lot of money its crazy how far its gone. I wonder if other schools look at that and think they can't compete, then cut.
 
Nacho

Nacho

Hall of Fame
Clemson_tennis said:
Arizona State hires Adam Steinberg from Michigan, previously a national champion at Pepperdine.
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Interesting, thanks for the heads up....He did a great job with both Pepperdine and Michigan, Michigan was in the dumps when he took over in many areas besides tennis; Much better today and cool to see them competing again in the BIG. I would guess Maymi would take that program over...From what I hear he is a good assistant
 
Nostradamus

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Why don't they just bring in bunch of BEST foreign players into the team ? Germany, Spain, Sweden, Italy, Japan, and India has plenty of talented Juniors that wants full ride with scholarship money. They could build a very strong team this way, right away... if they don't speak English, that's ok too, they can learn as they take classes....
 
Nacho

Nacho

Hall of Fame
Nostradamus said:
Why don't they just bring in bunch of BEST foreign players into the team ? Germany, Spain, Sweden, Italy, Japan, and India has plenty of talented Juniors that wants full ride with scholarship money. They could build a very strong team this way, right away... if they don't speak English, that's ok too, they can learn as they take classes....
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yea, I am sure there are some international kids with ATP points ready and eligible to play in the US....and over the age of 22
 
Nostradamus

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Nacho said:
yea, I am sure there are some international kids with ATP points ready and eligible to play in the US....and over the age of 22
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There are tons of teenagers or guys that is about to go to college that is NOT yet good enough or not talented enough to be Professional yet. and these guys are hungry to get into US colleges and make something of themselves. and these are the guys you go for. No English speakning, No problem..
 
J

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Nostradamus said:
There are tons of teenagers or guys that is about to go to college that is NOT yet good enough or not talented enough to be Professional yet. and these guys are hungry to get into US colleges and make something of themselves. and these are the guys you go for. No English speakning, No problem..
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Don't know if you are joking or serious. There is the problem that players have to have a minimum SAT score of 800 (math/critical reading). We knew one kid from South America who had to take it 3 times to get that 800. He spent a year training in the States. Now if a coach has links to Western Europe, he is set. Those guys probably started taking English before they were 9 and will make the Honor roll. Coaches have to watch their APR; they don't want to miss playoffs because they have non English players in poor academic standing who leave to go pro. Now there are smart players from every global region-just more from Western Europe; we knew another guy from South America who planned to play D2 for two years and then transfer to an engineering school.
 
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