Roger Federer: Serena Williams may well be best overall tennis player ever

Thriller · May 23, 2018

“[Williams’s career] has been fascinating to watch. She had a totally different upbringing – I came up through Switzerland with the federation, she did it with her dad and her sister,” says Federer in the interview. “It’s an amazing story unto itself – and then she became one of the greatest, if not the greatest tennis player of all time.”

Federer is then asked to clarify if he means Williams is the best female player of all time or the best overall. “Overall,” he says.

Discuss.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...r-serena-williams-greatest-ever-tennis-player

RF-18 · May 23, 2018

Well imagine the sh*t storm he would have got if he said female. Ask Mcenroe.

Steve0904 · May 23, 2018

Or she may well not be. Only one man's opinion, really.

SQA333 · May 23, 2018

Roger playing himself down as usual.

Doubt Serena would have done the same if the roles were reversed

Thriller · May 23, 2018

RF-18 said:
Well imagine the sh*t storm he would have got if he said female. Ask Mcenroe.

Wow you read the whole article in under a minute before making your 'informed' comment ....

Deleted member 756486 · May 23, 2018

Interviewer trying to bait Federer into controversy but Federer and his PR team are too smart for that.

There’s no way this is Federer's true opinion, his true opinion would’ve been slammed by the media which is wrong but that’s how identity politics is nowadays..

Krish872007 · May 23, 2018

SQA333 said:
Roger playing himself down as usual.

Doubt Serena would have done the same if the roles were reversed

Serena's always been positive about Roger as far as I can tell. But it's not in her best interests to anoint him overall GOAT as that would unleash a huge storm too

Steve0904 · May 23, 2018

Thriller said:
Wow you read the whole article in under a minute before making your 'informed' comment ....

We all know why he said "overall." He said it because he's been a master at PR for almost 20 years now. Or he may have said it because she will end up with the open era record for GS if we don't separate genders. He also knows he and many other male players would clobber Serena in a truly competitive match.

None of that takes away from Serena, but it is the truth.

Thriller · May 23, 2018

Steve0904 said:
We all know why he said "overall." He said it because he's been a master at PR for almost 20 years now. Or he may have said it because she will end up with the open era record for GS if we don't separate genders. He also knows he and many other male players would clobber Serena in a truly competitive match.

None of that takes away from Serena, but it is the truth.

I think he said overall because he sincerely believes that pound for pound she is the best there has ever been, just like a middleweight can be considered better than a heavyweight even though he would obviously get 'clobbered' 1:1.

See, we can all guess why he said "overall" and claim it as "the truth".

EloQuent · May 23, 2018

In the full interview he said something like "there's a top 5 and she's there" and didn't get into precise GOAT debate. And I think that's fair, diplomatically mixing the ATP and WTA. The 20+ club.

edit- also you're quoting from an article that is quoting from another article. Go read the full interview in WSJ

fundrazer · May 23, 2018

Thriller said:
Wow you read the whole article in under a minute before making your 'informed' comment ....

It wasn't much of an article when I looked at it earlier. "May well be" is also much different than saying she's unquestionably the best tennis player ever. He also goes on to say that it's hard to compare eras, which has been said thousands of times.

I dunno and don't really care though, it's just more clickbait stuff.

Steve0904 · May 23, 2018

Thriller said:
I think he said overall because he sincerely believes that pound for pound she is the best there has ever been, just like a middleweight can be considered better than a heavyweight even though he would obviously get 'clobbered' 1:1.

See, we can all guess why he said "overall" and claim it as "the truth".

Tennis isn't boxing. There's no such thing as pound for pound in tennis. If there was, guys like Schwartzman wouldn't come close to beating guys like Karlovic or Isner.

Don't overcomplicate this. It's an exercise in PR.

If he really wanted to he could've said "I'll triple bagel Serena in a competitive match, come @ me Serena" and that would be the truth (or very close to it). But he's not stupid enough to say that.

EloQuent · May 23, 2018

Thriller said:
I think he said overall because he sincerely believes that pound for pound she is the best there has ever been, just like a middleweight can be considered better than a heavyweight even though he would obviously get 'clobbered' 1:1.

See, we can all guess why he said "overall" and claim it as "the truth".

Are you sure about that pound for pound claim? Do you think that she'd have been a top 20 player on the ATP?

RF-18 · May 23, 2018

Thriller said:
Wow you read the whole article in under a minute before making your 'informed' comment ....

I only made a comment on the ''overall'' thing.

I don't want to play down Serenas tennis quality cause it is huge but the truth needs to be said when we Once again have a reporter trying to bait a competition between men and woman. This is pretty much deja vu from the mcenroe interview, only difference is the answer was different. He also said something in the lines of this but the reporter didn't want to stop there, she had to ask if he meant amongst the men also. These are the people that creates this mess. Just stick to woman vs woman and men vs men, it is not harder than that.

Thriller · May 23, 2018

EloQuent said:
Are you sure about that pound for pound claim? Do you think that she'd have been a top 20 player on the ATP?

Same Serena in a 6ft 2 male athletic frame, she would have been World No. 1 and on 20+ slams. I mean she serves like that and she is 5ft 10 ....

metsman · May 23, 2018

Federer learning from Sir Mury.

EloQuent · May 23, 2018

Thriller said:
Same Serena in a 6ft 2 male athletic frame, she would have been World No. 1 and on 20+ slams. I mean she serves like that and she is 5ft 10 ....

Who is she acing there? A WTA player.

She's taller than Diego Schartzman, who is ranked in the top 20. She herself has never claimed to be able to beat an ATP player inside the top 200. She once boasted anyone outside the top 200 and the dude ranked 203 challenged her and beat her.

I'm all for respecting the achievements of WTA players within the league but let's not get carried away here.

AnOctorokForDinner · May 23, 2018

There is no facet of the game in which Williams is as skilled as Federer except for the serve; the return could be argued as well, but it's difficult to measure since Williams is up against much weaker servers than Federer is on average. Serves and smashes are the two categories in which the average WTA player lags so far behind the average ATP player it's ridiculous to compare. So Williams having such a great serve for a woman is mighty impressive, but anything else, no.

Deleted member 756486 · May 23, 2018

metsman said:
Federer learning from Sir Mury.

We can all learn from the Muzziah.

Im(moral) Winner · May 23, 2018

And they call him arrogant. Humblerer.

Poisoned Slice · May 23, 2018

paranoidandroid said:
We can all learn from the Muzziah.

lol Going to test myself when I have a spare hour.

sureshs · May 23, 2018

Everybody knows this except the insecure 3.0 men on this forum. Real men readily admit that Serena is the GOAT.

FrontHeadlock · May 23, 2018

Sorry Rog, Mrs. Margaret Court has more Majors, the Grand Slam, and retired years earlier than Serena.

AnOctorokForDinner · May 23, 2018

EloQuent said:
Who is she acing there? A WTA player.

She's taller than Diego Schartzman, who is ranked in the top 20. She herself has never claimed to be able to beat an ATP player inside the top 200. She once boasted anyone outside the top 200 and the dude ranked 203 challenged her and beat her.

I'm all for respecting the achievements of WTA players within the league but let's not get carried away here.

Tbh the 2nd and 4th serves would likely be unreturned in ATP as well, very good execution. With 1st and 3rd, it depends on whether the returner guesses wrong / gets wrongfooted as Radwanska was there. Probably returned by most ATP top players, whose reflexes are a bit sharper.

metsman · May 23, 2018

AnOctorokForDinner said:
There is no facet of the game in which Williams is as skilled as Federer except for the serve; the return could be argued as well, but it's difficult to measure since Williams is up against much weaker servers than Federer is on average. Serves and smashes are the two categories in which the average WTA player lags so far behind the average ATP player it's ridiculous to compare. So Williams having such a great serve for a woman is mighty impressive, but anything else, no.

Goffin and Schwartzman who are shorter and weigh less than Serena would look like Karlovic if 112 down the T was enough to ace people. Obviously her serve is amazing for a woman but I don't think we can compare her to Federer in any category.

sureshs · May 23, 2018

FrontHeadlock said:
Sorry Rog, Mrs. Margaret Court has more Majors, the Grand Slam, and retired years earlier than Serena.

During a time when only a few women from a few countries competed.

metsman · May 23, 2018

AnOctorokForDinner said:
Tbh the 2nd and 4th serves would likely be unreturned in ATP as well, very good execution. With 1st and 3rd, it depends on whether the returner guesses wrong / gets wrongfooted as Radwanska was there. Probably returned by most ATP top players, whose reflexes are a bit sharper.

115 down the middle a foot or two to the right of the center line without an excessive amount of spin? I doubt that gets by many quality ATP returners. Usually they guess when they are facing guys serving 125+ to all 4 corners with heavy action, I highly doubt they'd be guessing against serves <120 without a ton of action. I think only the second one was an ace because that was placed very well with a good amount of action.

EloQuent · May 23, 2018

AnOctorokForDinner said:
Tbh the 2nd and 4th serves would likely be unreturned in ATP as well, very good execution. With 1st and 3rd, it depends on whether the returner guesses wrong / gets wrongfooted as Radwanska was there. Probably returned by most ATP top players, whose reflexes are a bit sharper.

Okay so she'd occasionally be able to hit an ace. It's still no comparison. Read up on every "battle" match.

If you honestly think that Serena would be a top 20 player in the ATP...I don't know what else to say.

Otacon · May 23, 2018

Roger is from Switzerland, SWITZERLAND.

FrontHeadlock · May 23, 2018

sureshs said:
During a time when only a few women from a few countries competed.

XXIV

AnOctorokForDinner · May 23, 2018

metsman said:
115 down the middle a foot or two to the right of the center line without an excessive amount of spin? I doubt that gets by many quality ATP returners. Usually they guess when they are facing guys serving 125+ to all 4 corners with heavy action, I highly doubt they'd be guessing against serves <120 without a ton of action. I think only the second one was an ace because that was placed very well with a good amount of action.

The fourth was placed right on the sideline with decent pace/angle, perhaps not an ace but most men wouldn't return it I think. I agree 1st and 3rd would be handled by good returners, with sharper reflexes and more experience as they face good serves more often then women.

ZiggyStardust · May 23, 2018

Rog is not gonna step into the controversy circle lol. He's got too much money to make. Leave that to the McEnroe's of the world.

AnOctorokForDinner · May 23, 2018

metsman said:
Goffin and Schwartzman who are shorter and weigh less than Serena would look like Karlovic if 112 down the T was enough to ace people. Obviously her serve is amazing for a woman but I don't think we can compare her to Federer in any category.

That's why I said skill. Obviously Federer is naturally stronger; accounting for that, their serves may be at the same level of skill, but Federer is still clearly better in other shots, including the return I think because I don't remember Williams continuously returning big serves the way Federer returned Roddick's.

West Coast Ace · May 23, 2018

RF-18 said:
Well imagine the sh*t storm he would have got if he said female. Ask Mcenroe.

He should have side-stepped. And stated the obvious - female sports are very different for physical, mental , and emotional reasons.

Lost some respect for him. Sad virtue signaling.

AnOctorokForDinner · May 23, 2018

EloQuent said:
Okay so she'd occasionally be able to hit an ace. It's still no comparison. Read up on every "battle" match.

If you honestly think that Serena would be a top 20 player in the ATP...I don't know what else to say.

Of course not, but I think on a good serving day she could get some holds against most ATP players, which in itself is a huge compliment.

AnOctorokForDinner · May 23, 2018

West Coast Ace said:
He should have side-stepped. And stated the obvious - female sports are very different for physical, mental , and emotional reasons.

Lost some respect for him. Sad virtue signaling.

Are women weaker not only physically, but also mentally and emotionally?

*sjw intensifies*

Fedforever · May 23, 2018

paranoidandroid said:
Interviewer trying to bait Federer into controversy but Federer and his PR team are too smart for that.

There’s no way this is Federer's true opinion, his true opinion would’ve been slammed by the media which is wrong but that’s how identity politics is nowadays..

Yeah, I wonder what people expected him to say here. He's hardly going to name himself or Nadal is he?

Serena is a safe choice that people can't really attack him for.

pame · May 23, 2018

EloQuent said:
Are you sure about that pound for pound claim? Do you think that she'd have been a top 20 player on the ATP?

Jeez, the poster just drew the analogy of a middle and heavyweight fighter, and you STILL come back asking if she'd have been a top 20 player on the ATP.
In words of less than one syllable: middleweight fighter = top 20 player; heavyweight = ATP tour.

EloQuent · May 23, 2018

pame said:
Jeez, the poster just drew the analogy of a middle and heavyweight fighter, and you STILL come back asking if she'd have been a top 20 player on the ATP.
In words of less than one syllable: middleweight fighter = top 20 player; heavyweight = ATP tour.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought "pound for pound" was supposed to mean that she's the best 5'9" player ever. Which isn't accurate in the slightest. The reason I said top 20 is because there are shorter players in the top 20.

NoleFam · May 23, 2018

So basically Federer just blew up this whole absolute argument that many dudes on this site like to make, mostly his fans, and just flat out said that S. Williams could be considered the greatest. So now everyone thinks it must be PR, he doesn't really mean it and go back to their absolute arguments.

Federer is simply smarter than you and he can actually separate the two without feeling like he's slighted in the least because at the end of the day he knows he would destroy Serena Williams on a tennis court. He still can separate what she achieved, according to her gender, and place that in perspective and how amazing it is in itself. Federer's fans could learn a lot from him.

Deleted member 743561 · May 23, 2018

NoleFam said:
So basically Federer just blew up this whole absolute argument that many dudes on this site like to make, mostly his fans, and just flat out said that S. Williams could be considered the greatest. So now everyone thinks it must be PR, he doesn't really mean it and go back to their absolute arguments. Federer is simply smarter than you and he can actually separate the two without feeling like he's slighted in the least because at the end of the day he knows he would destroy Serena Williams on a tennis court. He still can separate what she achieved, according to her gender, and place that in perspective and how amazing it is in itself. Federer's fans could learn a lot from him.

Would you say that you've learned a little something from him over the years? Perhaps more now that you've completed your psychoanalysis of him?

Deleted member 756486 · May 23, 2018

EloQuent said:
Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought "pound for pound" was supposed to mean that she's the best 5'9" player ever. Which isn't accurate in the slightest. The reason I said top 20 is because there are shorter players in the top 20.

To be the best “pound for pound” means you’re the best in the world regardless of height and weight.

For example, Demetrious Johnson (flyweight) is the #1 P4P MMA fighter in the world ahead of Stipe Miocic who is the heavyweight champion, even though Miocic would win a fight between the two Johnson has dominated in his division more than Miocic so he’s #1.

metsman · May 23, 2018

AnOctorokForDinner said:
That's why I said skill. Obviously Federer is naturally stronger; accounting for that, their serves may be at the same level of skill, but Federer is still clearly better in other shots, including the return I think because I don't remember Williams continuously returning big serves the way Federer returned Roddick's.

Yeah but is Goffin as skilled on serve as Federer? Because Goffin's serve is better than Serena. You can't really compare skill when things are so far apart on quality.

Chadillac · May 23, 2018

Fed and Laver tell everyone how much better others are than them, serena claims she is the goat (male or female). Which is more classy?

mike danny · May 23, 2018

AnOctorokForDinner said:
That's why I said skill. Obviously Federer is naturally stronger; accounting for that, their serves may be at the same level of skill, but Federer is still clearly better in other shots, including the return I think because I don't remember Williams continuously returning big serves the way Federer returned Roddick's.

mike danny · May 23, 2018

NoleFam said:
So basically Federer just blew up this whole absolute argument that many dudes on this site like to make, mostly his fans, and just flat out said that S. Williams could be considered the greatest. So now everyone thinks it must be PR, he doesn't really mean it and go back to their absolute arguments. Federer is simply smarter than you and he can actually separate the two without feeling like he's slighted in the least because at the end of the day he knows he would destroy Serena Williams on a tennis court. He still can separate what she achieved, according to her gender, and place that in perspective and how amazing it is in itself. Federer's fans could learn a lot from him.

You have to separate genders.

What Serena has done is magnificent, but only within the WTA field. ATP and WTA are so different that you can't say Serena is the greatest among both genders.

So yes, it is PR.

True Fanerer · May 23, 2018

Silly subject that doesn't deserve a real response.

FederErizeD · May 23, 2018

sureshs said:
During a time when only a few women from a few countries competed.

But why are you putting other factors into the equation when it comes to MC, and dismiss them when it comes to Serena? Hypocrite.

Poisoned Slice · May 23, 2018

paranoidandroid said:
To be the best “pound for pound” means you’re the best in the world regardless of height and weight.

For example, Demetrious Johnson (flyweight) is the #1 P4P MMA fighter in the world ahead of Stipe Miocic who is the heavyweight champion, even though Miocic would win a fight between the two Johnson has dominated in his division more than Miocic so he’s #1.

Makes no sense in the context of tennis.

As long as I don't see vintage Ziggler in any top 100 p4p list. Believe I have seen him in the top 10 in the past. Can you believe that? Makes the whole p4p thing even more ludicrous.

big ted · May 23, 2018

serena may not be a better player than federer but i think she is arguably mentally tougher than him

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