Good point. Gonzales at Wimbledon is probably the best answer here. He would've cleaned up.
Of the options above, Borg at the US Open takes it for me, then probably Rosewall at Wimbledon.
Best player at a specific Slam to never win it
- Thread starter Lew II
- Start date
Of the options above, Borg at the US Open takes it for me, then probably Rosewall at Wimbledon.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
BGod
G.O.A.T.
Roddick at Wimbledon and here's why.
The 2009 Finals was the closest loss in OE. Yes closer than Fed's 2019 WMB & 09 Fed was a greater opponent than 19 Novak.
The 04 Final was also closer than any Murray final in AO.
There's also the residual effect with Roddick losing a 5 setter to Gasquet in 07 QF that was largely mental because of his 03-05 scars.
Lastly, nobody but Fed could beat Roddick in those 4 years that we know of and likely 1 more if Andy isn't mentally obliterated.
Murray couldn't beat a past prime Fed except once and a very great Novak yes but he wasn't always in the zone of 15-16. There was 2013 at least and never was Andy close in their meetings except once to Roddick 05 level.
Rosewall would be my 2nd pick.
Borg at USO was just not good enough. Mac, Jimbo & even Tanner.
Sobin Soderling at FO should be a wildcard.
The 2009 Finals was the closest loss in OE. Yes closer than Fed's 2019 WMB & 09 Fed was a greater opponent than 19 Novak.
The 04 Final was also closer than any Murray final in AO.
There's also the residual effect with Roddick losing a 5 setter to Gasquet in 07 QF that was largely mental because of his 03-05 scars.
Lastly, nobody but Fed could beat Roddick in those 4 years that we know of and likely 1 more if Andy isn't mentally obliterated.
Murray couldn't beat a past prime Fed except once and a very great Novak yes but he wasn't always in the zone of 15-16. There was 2013 at least and never was Andy close in their meetings except once to Roddick 05 level.
Rosewall would be my 2nd pick.
Borg at USO was just not good enough. Mac, Jimbo & even Tanner.
Sobin Soderling at FO should be a wildcard.
The Guru
Legend
This is quite the post.
Not even remotely close to the closest loss in OE. Fed in 2019 was obviously closer. Federer was the better player in 4/5 sets so if anything the scoreline makes it seem more competitive than it was. Fed in 2019 had won his two sets by 4 breaks combined and lost in 3 tiebreakers while having more break chances throughout and a SP in set 3 and a MP in set 5. There are many many matches closer than the 09 final.
He lost to teenage Murray, Gasquet, and Tipsarevic in consecutive years during his prime. I don't care if confidence is the reason that's inexcusable. Confidence is part of what makes a player good and if Andy doesn't have it that's on him. There's no excuse for losing to Gasquet period.
If you are talking all time this is one of the most laughable statements of all time if you mean in those individual tournaments still no. Hewitt a clear favorite in 05 and has a good chance in 04. If you're saying no one else beats him in 03 well the best player he'd have to face would've been Schalken/Philli lmao. In 09 he would've beaten hip Hewitt (5 sets), pre-prime Murray (In a 50/50 match), and Haas. Saying he would've won those without Fed isn't saying much. Borg wins a couple UOs without either Mac or Connors. Murray grabs at least 1 AO without Novak.
I think you need to rewatch the 2016 AO if you think Novak wasn't in the zone by the end of that tournament. Murray was always above Roddick 05 level. Roddick 05 was a joke compared to 03/04. Saying Roddick 05 is better than every AO Murray is one of the most ludicrous, biased statements I've heard on here and that means a whole lot with all the prize money/ELO ********s, clay doesn't count Fedrtards, and 17 USO is strong Dulltards. Another suggested match for your rewatch: 2012 AO SF.
You say that as if these guys are some scrubs. Jimbo is USO GOAT and Mac might be the most talented player in the history of the game. Mac's best is as dominant as anyone's and Borg was challenging these dudes. Tanner is better than Gasquet lol. Borg is an easy choice in this poll. The number of Roddick voters makes me seriously question TTW's tennis knowledge. At least you can make a longevity argument for Murray but even that is flimsy. This poll should be 75% Borg.
Lmfao why because Fedr beat him in a RG final so he must be stronk competition. Mans made the QF 3 times and never took a set in either RG final. Not sure why RG Murray is up there but he's still a better choice than Soderling.
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
2002 was his best shot against "party boy" Safin.
If he had beaten the Russian, he probably would have been proclaimed champion since Johansson was not exactly a world-beater kind of player.
ForehandCross
G.O.A.T.
Duh Andy Roddick at Australian Open.
Yes, Haas was up 2 sets to 1, and Safin was wilting in the Melbourne heat. Then, they rain came, they closed the roof, and Safin cruised to take the last 2 sets in the cooler conditions. If it weren't for the rain, Haas likely takes the match and the title.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Oh what a surprise. Another Novak Djokovic fan pumping up his opposition.
Novak Djokovic wouldn't be the AO GOAT if Murray had beaten him a few times there. There's no way I can be convinced that Murray at AO is greater than Borg at USO.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
Borg at US, Murray at AO by a clear margin over the others.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Not really the same though.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Not really.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
And yet he never pushed any of his finals to 5.
Don't get me wrong, I still pick Murray, just wanted to put this out there.
Last edited:
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Murray for the number of finals reached.
Then Borg at the USO.
Then Roddick at Wimb, IMO. He actually came the closest to winning out of the guys listed here.
Then Borg at the USO.
Then Roddick at Wimb, IMO. He actually came the closest to winning out of the guys listed here.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
The irony in this statement is quite amusing. So Novak Djokovic wouldn't have been the AO GOAT if Murray had beaten him a few times there...well, do you think Connors would have been the USO GOAT, and still equal to what Sampras and Federer did there, if Borg had beaten him there? Borg lost three times to Connors at USO, including two USO finals. So what merit makes Borg greater at USO than Murray at AO? The fact he lost two USO finals to McEnroe after that? How is McEnroe any better at USO than Federer is at AO?
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Could it be that he actually took on the two greatest HC players of all time?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Yes, I know.
I still pick Murray for this thread, but the only reason I do is because he reached the most number of finals. It is still odd how he never even pushed a final to 5 sets and Djokovic wasn't exactly beasting in all of them.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Borg pushed McEnroe to 5 sets in the 1980 USO final (4-6 in the 5th set) - or are you conveniently forgetting that? Murray never came so close to winning the AO.
Borg was also hindered by injury in the 1978 final as is well known.
He also has a higher win %age that Murray at the respective slams.
I've nothing against Murray, but Borg is greater at the USO than he is at the AO. One extra final for Murray does nothing to convince me - he could have reached 100 finals vs. Novak Djokovic and would have lost every time. He simply wasn't good enough.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
The only one where I felt Murray really put a poor showing in was AO 2015 final, the others the guy he was playing was just a level above him IMO.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Borg took on two of the greatest USO players of all time (5 and 4-time champs), and pushed one to 5 sets in the 1980 USO final.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Djokovic is 16-0 in AO semi's and finals. They all had their chances and none of them took it.
I believe Fed took a grand total of 1 set at these stages of the tournament.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Are you forgetting that not only did Murray have those five finals, he also took peak Djokovic to the brink at AO 2012, only to lose 7-5 in the fifth?
If you think Borg is greater, then you stick with it, but if I chose Murray, don't try to wrap a narrative around it that I am propping up Djokovic' competition. Murray has been super consistent, and if he wasn't facing Godly forms of Djokovic on many occasions, he could have done better. The only one that I feel Murray threw in a stinker is AO 2015. So, we can agree to disagree on this. And I have the upmost respect for Borg but not giving this one to him...he lost a slam final on clay, to a guy who is no where near the clay GOAT level in Connors there.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Shall I remind you that Delpo couldn't even beat hip Hewitt at the 2013 USO, at his best slam?
Again with your pre-prime Murray. 2009 Murray was playing about as well at Wimb as 2010 and 2011 Murray.
2009 Haas had the same credentials on grass as 2015 Murray.
So following this line of thought, who would have been left for Murray if you take out the Big 3?
Why? Among the guys on the list, Roddick actually came the closest to winning.
Why?
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Yeah, let me turn that around on you. The 5 and 4 times champs were won at his expense. You throw it in Djokovic's face, that he would not be AO GOAT if Murray had won a few, well, Connors and McEnroe wouldn't being boasting those numbers either, if Borg had actually stopped them.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
AO 2015 and 2013 are my missed opportunities.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
He wouldn't be the AO GOAT if not only Murray beat him there but also Federer, Nadal, Wawrinka or Thiem. Since 2008, combined, they have 1 win.
Borg is 1-5 against McEnroe and Connors at the USO and Murray is 2-7 against the big 3 at AO. Not much difference there. Murray had 3 ATGs to worry about though compared to Borg's 2.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
AO 2013 Murray played well, but I felt Djokovic was playing just fine himself. First couple of sets were tough, don't think Novak was there for the pickings. After that Wawrinka match, he didn't look vulnerable for the rest of the event for me. Again, IMO.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
2013 is definitely the one I look back on the most. Andy should've come in rolling with confidence after finally getting over the hump at the previous slam and seeing Wawrinka of all people making Novak look incredibly vulnerable that week.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I agree, but how Murray completely fell apart after the second set was disappointing. And to even allow himself to be bothered by a feather???
mike danny
Bionic Poster
He collapsed after the second set and allowed himself to be distracted by a feather.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Not sure what happened in his head there. But isn't something new for him, remember that noise at USO distracted him and he lost his way? Or that line call against Nadal at W 2011, when he was matching Nadal shot for shot?
RS
Bionic Poster
Third set was close until Novak broke in the 8th game. Murray made a comeback at the end of the 4th too late. Not a great showing but good or decent is fine.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
The gong?
I laughed so hard after that. I think even the commentators had to mute themselves. It was fitting being that he was playing Nishikori but yea a HUGE missed opportunity for Murray there. He should have beaten Nishikori and anybody else in the draw imo. He won the close match with Nishikori at DC and loses the one that was most important. Go figure. Could have been a 2 Slam year, forever shutting Wawrinka, Hewitt, Safin and others out of arguments to being compared to him.
Last edited:
Hitman
Bionic Poster
The gong?
Yeah. Murray should have won USO 2016 had he had his head on straight IMO. Outside of that gong moment, he was the top guy post RG pretty much everywhere.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
That's what all you Novak Djokovic fans do, so yes I will stick with that narrative, thanks very much.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Hmm, not sure Nadal was much of a factor in stopping Murray at the AO though?
Sabrina
Hall of Fame
Yeah a multiple GS year would definitely put him in an ATG conversation. Certainly a missed opportunity.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Definitely. He was basically the best player at that moment since Djokovic had fallen off. I don't know what he was doing in that Nishikori match, to let something like that distract him in a tournament of that magnitude at that point in his career.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
The story of AO 2013 is actually very simple. It is called Shanghai 2012 final. For me this is the match which tells the story of Murray's career. He was becoming better and better in 2012 and I thought he could really become a member of the big 4. And then everything suddenly changed. I believe if this match didn't happen then Murray would have more confidence in his next matches against Djokovic.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
They went 1-1 in matches.
Similar threads
