TheFifthSet
Legend
Not to mention better net game, better movement, and stronger between the ears.
Nadal and Djokovic would not have survived the 80's and 90's - Becker
- Thread starter tennisaddict
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Not to mention better net game, better movement, and stronger between the ears.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
I agree, i think both Nole and Nadal were more aggressive in 2008 and before than after 08; and both less successful as well...
This so many times.
Everyone, pros or otherwise, keep extrapolating these what-if scenarios as though no one has ever heard of confounding variables.
People are nothing without their external context. They grow up training and adapting their game to the current conditions they have to play in.
What is the point in all of this other than a fanboy's wet dream?
The-Champ
Legend
Becker had better movement than Tsonga?
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
He definitely did.
5555
Hall of Fame
1. Your statement is not a fact but just your opinion
2. Your opinion is irrelevant because you are not a tennis expert
3. Federer's opinion is relevant because he is a tennis expert
Djokovic is a agressive baseliner now. Go to Google http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&tbo=...4ee4705f4bfa78&bpcl=38897761&biw=1680&bih=895
Full match here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irMTThmEkxo
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D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Djokovic is a defensive player. He used to be aggressive back in 2007/2008.
djokovic2008
Hall of Fame
This is exactly the path novak has taken and what a great path it has turned out to be.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
It helped him attain the #1 ranking, so it was worth it.
5555
Hall of Fame
Your opinion is irrelevant because you are not a tennis expert. Federer said of Djokovic: “We both play aggressive tennis" http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...efeats-andy-murray-faces-djokovic-in-atp.html
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Did he say "Djokovic plays aggressive tennis against everybody"? No. He did not, he said "we both play aggressive tennis"; which could mean they both have to switch to that kind of tennis when playing each other because being defensive is ineffective.
It could shorten his career though. It worked for Lendl who made the same switch to boring defensive pusher tennis and had the same success as Djoker and Lendl played till 34 though, so maybe not.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
You, and your interpertation of Federer's opinion, are out numbered; regardless of your insults!
There are many pros, or as you say tennis experts, who would classify Nole as a great defensive player vs being a 'natural attacker'...
djokovic2008
Hall of Fame
Yes and there are just as many experts who classify him as an agressive baseliner which he is. You cannot be number 1 and win as many slams and many comebacks from match point down if you are a defensive player you need weapons which djoker has.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
Try reading...
I and others have stated that Nole has weapons and can and will pull the trigger. However, at heart he is a defensive player nowadays. An aggressive baseliner was a player like Agassi or peak Delpo/Solderling. Nole depends more on defense than those players...
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
Djokovic is probably a more defensively great baseliner than offensive, but in no way is he just a defensive player. He has very good offense. His groundstrokes can overpower virtually everyone, his returning is superb, he is willing to go to net, and his serve can be a weapon on a good day. Just check his winners stats, other than sometimes Federer, he usually always leads his opponents in that.
hm, Nova is, defense/offense, offense, defense. got it? no weaknesses at all, the most complete player nowadays (unless we talk about his smashes that could be hilarious at the time). he adopts to who ever he plays.
and he moves, like oh boy, like a puma. I think I'm having an orgasm when I think about his movement, lol.
and he moves, like oh boy, like a puma. I think I'm having an orgasm when I think about his movement, lol.
The-Champ
Legend
5555
Hall of Fame
Tennis.com: "Djokovic is at his most lethal on hard courts. A take-charge service return and an aggressive ground game enable him to push opponents back and batter them into submission." http://www.tennis.com/news/2012/08/2012-us-open-player-previews-novak-djokovic/39010/
Your opinion is irrelevant because you are not a tennis expert.
Have you got proof that many tennis experts regard Djokovic as a defensive player?
Your opinion is irrelevant because you are not a tennis expert.
kiki
Banned
Becker has two little things in between his legs that Tsonga can only dream of...not to mention a far better serve,ROs and a decent volley.
Just to crash in about the original post....
This stuff doesn't matter. If the surfaces now were as they were then, we would be talking about different players anyway, because Rafa and Novak wouldn't be doing as well.
In other words, this era against other eras is a dumb argument because the best players on a given surface rise to the top and the surfaces Becker played on barely get an airing now. If the courts had been slower in Becker's time, it's not a question of whether Becker would have adapted, because there's no guarantee he would have been part of the conversation when it comes to top players.
This stuff doesn't matter. If the surfaces now were as they were then, we would be talking about different players anyway, because Rafa and Novak wouldn't be doing as well.
In other words, this era against other eras is a dumb argument because the best players on a given surface rise to the top and the surfaces Becker played on barely get an airing now. If the courts had been slower in Becker's time, it's not a question of whether Becker would have adapted, because there's no guarantee he would have been part of the conversation when it comes to top players.
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NadalAgassi
Guest
LOL and you think YOU are. Apparently you cant read, I was actually defending Djokovic's offensive abilities by saying he was very good offensively as well as defensively, moreso than others on this thread were saying. So if that apparently isnt good enough for you, what the heck do you want someone to say, that he is even better an attacker than defender. You truly are a blind Djokovic fanatic if that is the case, even his other ardent fans on this forum (the sane ones) like Ripster and Towser and others wouldnt say that. As for what experts think name me one single expert on the planet who says Djokovic is a greater attacking player than defensive one. Good luck, you will need it (barring making something up). PS- McEnroe calling Djokovic the best returner ever does not equate to calling him a better attacking player than defender, sorry.
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abmk
Bionic Poster
a better serve, yes, far better, don't think so ...
obviously a much better RoS and a better volley ..
that wasn't the 'point of dispute' in the discussion though .... only their movement was .........
kiki
Banned
I agree Tsonga is a far better mover than Becker.And more reliable from the baseline, too.But not in the same league overall.
The-Champ
Legend
It should be the opposite. The size of Tsonga's thing between his legs is something Boris can only dream of.
Anyway, Becker is the better player overall, but movement-wise Tsonga is superior. Tsonga covers the court almost as good as the top 4.
kiki
Banned
5555
Hall of Fame
After 20 days you still have not replied to this post http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=6995767&postcount=265
Have you got proof that many tennis experts regard Djokovic as a defensive player?
5555
Hall of Fame
Have you got proof that many tennis experts regard Djokovic as a defensive player?
EastAngels2014
Rookie
He is right but that's because the game was different back then, and its not that way now. That is why those two dominate in their era not another one.
no he is not because both Djoko and Nadal would adapt if the were to play in 90s, especially Djokovic.
5555
Hall of Fame
Have you got proof that many tennis experts regard Djokovic as a defensive player?
5555
Hall of Fame
Have you got proof that many tennis experts regard Djokovic as a defensive player?
PS This is the last time I asked you the question. If you do not provide proof, I will conclude you lost the argument considering that I'm making negative claim.
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DRII
G.O.A.T.
This is not about losing or winning an argument. If thats your goal i suggest you find something else more productive to occupy your time...
Perhaps you should watch some tennis matches and listen to former pros who commentate!
If we're going by 'old school' standards almost none of the players from this era would be considered natural attackers! Including Federer, who is the most offensive of the top players. None of them hardly ever serve and volley or even come to the net that much at all compared to past players -- even the great baseliners from the past like Borg came to the net more often.
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5555
Hall of Fame
Tennis.com:
"Djokovic is at his most lethal on hard courts. A take-charge service return and an aggressive ground game enable him to push opponents back and batter them into submission."
http://www.tennis.com/news/2012/08/2012-us-open-player-previews-novak-djokovic/39010/
You failed to provide proof that many tennis experts regard Djokovic as a defensive player, so you lost the argument.
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Winners or Errors
Legend
“Even in defense, he stays somewhat offensive,” Federer, a record six-time winner of the Tour Finals, told reporters. “It’s what separates him from the rest a little bit.”
Fed on Djoker after this year's WTF final.
Fed on Djoker after this year's WTF final.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Oh, so both were right. The truth isn't always either/or, enlightening.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Interesting.
Really? Becker won the Australian open twice by playing predominantly from the baseline (more than matched lendl from the baseline) and mixing it up with smart tactical all court play (against Chang, lendl too) on a high bouncing medium to medium slow surface. Sure, it was not molasses slow like 2012 but both Boris and Pete won twice and had the tools to hit thru any baseliner on a good day. I think he knows a bit more about tennis than either of us.
Clay lover
Legend
Why revive this thread? On a side note, I can't stand the hubris of people who always presume that the conditions they love / have played in should be the DEFAULT set of conditions used to judge a player's ability. Why else would they be making statements like "player X wouldn't adapt blah blah blah"?
Good on the poster who said Becker wouldn't adapt in today's conditions too. It works both ways dude. Yes maybe homogenised conditions aren't ideal, but it in no way delegitimizes them either.
Federer having "classic" technique has been and will always remain a myth.
Good on the poster who said Becker wouldn't adapt in today's conditions too. It works both ways dude. Yes maybe homogenised conditions aren't ideal, but it in no way delegitimizes them either.
Federer having "classic" technique has been and will always remain a myth.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Thats it delete TTW
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
Did you just reply to an 8 year old thread to a guy that hasn’t logged in for 5 years?
Federer and Del Potro
Bionic Poster
This was before Becker coached Djokovic and lived vicariously through him so there’s that too.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Probably the biggest myth perpetuated in tennis in the last 20 years.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
Clay lover
Legend
To correct myself though, Becker isn't one of those people. He merely stated it matter-of-factly to praise Federer's versatility. I don't agree with his opinion though.
Federer has some of the spinniest shots.
I see a whole bunch of players with more spin on both: FH and BH...
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