There is no rule saying a player who hits somebody MUST be disqualified

Terenigma said:

I read the same rules as OP did and have already addressed this in the other thread and i did not come to the same conclusion. Simply put, they have the option to default someone for a violation of the rules or they can give them the typical 3 warnings that we all know and then make the default choice from there on depending on the umpires/supervisors decision.

However with that said, certain things are clearly too much. Would people defend it if a player suddenly pulled down their shorts and showed their genitals? Would that be worthy of a default or a warning? If a player flipping off the crowd and calling them rude names, would that constitute a default or a warning? Physical abuse is clearly addressed in the rules and the severity of that violation is judged by the umpire/supervisor and Djokovic intentional or not, hit the ball no way near the ballkid, clearly hit it harder than your typical ball removal and previously that match had done the same thing but luckily avoided hitting anyone but this time he hit the lineswoman in the throat.

To me that decision was clear and right. The rules may not demand the default but it is perfectly within the rules to default him and they should have.

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jm1980 said:

Of course the injury is relevant. Like I said, if someone is just emptying out their pockets and the ball gently touches a linesperson, do they deserve a DQ?

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a10best said:

man up, take responsibility and stop whining.
Some here act as if they drafted ATP & USTA rules and are expert interpreters of how it should be applied.
If she wasn't hurt and helped off, it would probably be a game penalty but she was so a default is warranted, so let's move on.

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sredna42 said:

the Nadal hits child in the head with angry and unrealistic ROS attempt, the ball REALLY hitting her in the head HARD.

Nothing happens for the Mutant. No DQ. No fine.
Same as nothing happens when everyone knows he is on enought PED's to kill an elephant.

LOL at how the little girl didn't go down after that brutal hit, yet that vile old karen went down like Simo Hayha shot her, then put on a ridiculous and kamp expression of fear.

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ohiostate124 said:

Nope and all of the pros disagree with you but you are of course, free to continue believing whatever you want.

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jm1980 said:

Dude, I'm not questioning the decision to DQ. It was a perfectly reasonable decision to make, and allowed by the rules

I'm simply correcting the misconception that "player hits somebody => player MUST be disqualified." It's actually "player hits somebody => player MAY be disqualified at the officials' discretion"

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tennis_pro said:

The rule is a joke and the lineswoman should be banned for an overreaction.

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sredna42 said:

the Nadal hits child in the head with angry and unrealistic ROS attempt, the ball REALLY hitting her in the head HARD.

Nothing happens for the Mutant. No DQ. No fine.
Same as nothing happens when everyone knows he is on enought PED's to kill an elephant.

LOL at how the little girl didn't go down after that brutal hit, yet that vile old karen went down like Simo Hayha shot her, then put on a ridiculous and kamp expression of fear.

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fedfan08 said:

You can’t compare. This was a return of serve. A serve that was called out AFTER Nadal hit is return.

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jm1980 said:

I'm not "believing whatever I want," I am simply posting the actual rules.

Feel free to point out where in the rulebook does it say that I'm wrong:

https://www.itftennis.com/media/2495/grand-slam-rulebook-2020-f.pdf

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jm1980 said:

Every time an incident like this happens, we have people chiming in saying or implying that the rules say a player must be immediately disqualified if they hit someone else on court. This is not actually true, but it's so often repeated by fans and commentators that people think it is. Let's see what the rules actually say. Relevant sections:

N. ABUSE OF BALLS

Players shall not violently, dangerously or with anger hit, kick or throw a tennis ball within the precincts of the tournament site except in the reasonable pursuit of a point during a match (including warm-up).
Violation of this Section shall subject a player to fine up to $20,000 for each violation. In addition, if such violation occurs during a match (including the warmup) the player shall be penalised in accordance with the Point Penalty Schedule hereinafter set forth.
For the purposes of this Rule, abuse of balls is defined as intentionally hitting a ball out of the enclosure of the court, hitting a ball dangerously or recklessly within the court or hitting a ball with negligent disregard of the consequences.

Q. PHYSICAL ABUSE

Players shall not at any time physically abuse any official, opponent, spectator or other person within the precincts of the tournament site.
Violation of this Section shall subject a player to a fine up to $20,000 for each violation. In addition, if such violation occurs during a match (including the warmup), the player shall be penalised in accordance with the Point Penalty Schedule hereinafter set forth. In circumstances that are flagrant and particularly injurious to the success of a tournament, or are singularly egregious, a single violation of this Section shall also constitute the Major Offence of “Aggravated Behaviour” and shall be subject to the additional penalties hereinafter set forth.
For the purposes of this Rule, physical abuse is the unauthorised touching of an official, opponent, spectator or other person.

The player shall be penalized according to the Point Penalty Schedule. This is what the Point Penalty Schedule mandates:

S. POINT PENALTY SCHEDULE

The Point Penalty Schedule to be used for violations set forth above is as follows:

FIRST offence: WARNING
SECOND offence: POINT PENALTY
THIRD AND EACH SUBSEQUENT offence: GAME PENALTY

However, after the third Code Violation, the Referee in consultation with the Grand Slam Chief of Supervisors shall determine whether each subsequent offence shall constitute a default.

In cases of a particularly egregious offense, the chair umpire or tournament referee MAY choose default the player (section T of the code). So this is and always has been a judgement call; as it should be.

Rulebook: https://www.itftennis.com/media/2495/grand-slam-rulebook-2020-f.pdf

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Raul_SJ said:

Don't see how this lineswoman was harmed. She fell because she is unfit and weak. Or she is overacting.
She deserves an Academy Award.

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Tennis_Hands said:

So, do you agree with the decision to DQ Djokovic?

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clayqueen said:

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Raul_SJ said:

Don't see how this lineswoman was harmed. She fell because she is unfit and weak. Or she is overacting.
She deserves an Academy Award.

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jeroenn said:

I don't know where you got this from? Here are some of his quotes during his discussion with the officials:

"She doesn't have to go to the hospital for this." -Djokovic trying to downplay the effects of hitting the lineswoman, saying she wasn't seriously injured. Djokovic continuining: "You're going to choose a default in this situation? My career, grand slam, center stage"
Djokovic is desperately negotiating now: "You have a game penalty, set penalty, many options."
Djokovic continues to plead: "If she would have gotten up right away..."

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jm1980 said:

This is one the few issues I'm particularly passionate about, because every time something like this happens, many users will say "well, the rules say DQ" without actually reading the rules

My need to correct people on this is actually stronger than my dislike for Fed. I would have made the same thread, 100%

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jm1980 said:

Yes. If I had been in their shoes, I would have disqualified him.

But I would also immediately look for replacement linesperson, and tell this lineswoman for her own sake to not be in the proximity of balls flying at 100+ mph if a 20mph ball can knock her down like that

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jm1980 said:

And what happened here:

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Tennis_Hands said:

What else would you advice the officials for Djokovic's convenience?

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jm1980 said:

How is it for Djokovic's convenience? I already said I would have DQ'd him too

I'm simply very concerned for the wellbeing of this frail lines woman. She should seek a different line of work

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PilotPete said:

Nope, Bedene should have been disqualified too. Nothing that Novak did was gentle, he hit the ball hard out of frustration. Before you come in with it wasn't hard, tell that to the woman who couldn't breathe for moments and was knocked to the ground.

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Candide said:

Let's be clear. He's been demonstrating this kind of spoiled petulance for ever and continually trying to grovel his way back into good books after doing something crass. People really poured the acid on Shapavalov when he had his incident but made allowances for his youth. Please don't claim as an excuse the fact that the woman didn't go to hospital - it is irrelevant. Think about what you're saying. If a soccer player flattened a referee in the world cup there wouldn't be a second of debated over what should happen - gone instantly and rightly so. It's very late in the day for him to try growing up.

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N01E said:

I can also stop breathing after being touched by the ball. My reaction doesn't determine if the ball was hit hard or not, the speed of the ball does.

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Terenigma said:

I think for people wondering if it is preferential treatment then your only option is to go through tennis history and find an incident where a player has hit the ball and struck someone like umpire/linesman/spectator and not got a DQ. I will stress that this incident needs to have happened OUTSIDE of the point, like between points or in fustration at the end of a point. I can't think of one but if you can and find it then i will accept your preferential treatment theory.

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veroniquem said:

I understand the reason for disqualifying but taking all the other points that he won fair and square in the tournament is completely unjustified and unjustifiable. Anything to hurt his ranking by hook or by crook right?

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Tennis_Hands said:

You said it and then turned the other way and started sarcastically commenting on their decision. Not very subtle either.

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jm1980 said:

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PilotPete said:

Why would you stop breathing after being touched by a ball?

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Omega_7000 said:

Ok Srdjan...

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jm1980 said:

Their decision to default is fine. But I have an inkling that this lineswoman is a Fed fan

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clayqueen said:

He is not going to lose any points in effect because he had accumulated exactly the same points as he earned last year - 180 points. That is if they allow him to keep last year's points having opted to play and losing his 2020 points through being defaulted.

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Gary Duane said:

At this point I think I hate almost everyone in this insane forum.

I've never been a Djokovic fan, and I'm certainly not now. I don't want to see him get the slam record. I'm a Fed fan and have been for years.

But my GOD, I didn't want to see him lose his chance at the record in this manner. I wanted to see him beaten by someone, fair and square. Not lose in this manner.

It's obvious to anyone who is not an SOB that he didn't mean to hit anyone.

All of you who are cheering at what happened to Novak should be ashamed of yourselves. This is horrible for tennis, horrible for the tournament. No one wins from this. If anything it points out the stupidity of an antiquated system that we don't even need any more. If what happened was truly dangerous then the same thing could happen 100 times in every match.

Get rid of lines people once and for all, use Hawkeye or whatever the call the system now. Move into the 21st century.

Then start knocking off points and games for ALL temper tantrums.

About the only top player I've not seen make one of these dick moves is Nadal, also by the way not my favorite player.

For any real tennis fan what happened today should be a depressing event and not a time for either celebration or throwing mud.

And, by the way, if you are a Djokovic fan and are trying to claim he didn't do anything wrong, you are just as crazy as the people who are taking joy in what happened.

I'm just sick about what happened because it's been an awful year for all of us, and this tournament was starting to be something good in a nightmare year for sports. Now there is a horrible stain on the men's side and everyone is going to wonder if someone could stop a man who was so far undefeated this year. NOTHING GOOD WILL COME OF THIS INCIDENT.

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Phoenix1983 said:

Oh FFS, you're fast becoming one of the most intolerable of all the Novak Djokovic fans.

Why can't you just accept he did something wrong?

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Candide said:

Your point? I love the armchair warriors who are certain they could take a ball the throat without flinching. I've seen other guys do this with boxing. "I can't believe he went down from a jab! That was barely a touch. How soft. I wouldn't have even reacted to that." Puffs cigarette, munches on pizza, scratches soft belly and squints into the distance like Clint Eastwood.

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Gary Duane said:

At this point I think I hate almost everyone in this insane forum.

I've never been a Djokovic fan, and I'm certainly not now. I don't want to see him get the slam record. I'm a Fed fan and have been for years.

But my GOD, I didn't want to see him lose his chance at the record in this manner. I wanted to see him beaten by someone, fair and square. Not lose in this manner.

It's obvious to anyone who is not an SOB that he didn't mean to hit anyone.

All of you who are cheering at what happened to Novak should be ashamed of yourselves. This is horrible for tennis, horrible for the tournament. No one wins from this. If anything it points out the stupidity of an antiquated system that we don't even need any more. If what happened was truly dangerous then the same thing could happen 100 times in every match.

Get rid of lines people once and for all, use Hawkeye or whatever the call the system now. Move into the 21st century.

Then start knocking off points and games for ALL temper tantrums.

About the only top player I've not seen make one of these dick moves is Nadal, also by the way not my favorite player.

For any real tennis fan what happened today should be a depressing event and not a time for either celebration or throwing mud.

And, by the way, if you are a Djokovic fan and are trying to claim he didn't do anything wrong, you are just as crazy as the people who are taking joy in what happened.

I'm just sick about what happened because it's been an awful year for all of us, and this tournament was starting to be something good in a nightmare year for sports. Now there is a horrible stain on the men's side and everyone is going to wonder if someone could stop a man who was so far undefeated this year. NOTHING GOOD WILL COME OF THIS INCIDENT.

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Tennis_Hands said:

Everything you said is correct, but I am concerned for you. The emotions shouldn't replace the discussion about what is good for the game.

I too think that the lines people can go (at least it looks like the technology is there). Then again, I think that MTOs should be penalised SEVERELY, as should be grunting, time wasting etc too.

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Bartelby said:

You should have left it at 'correct' Everything after that is irrelevant.

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Gary Duane said:

Get rid of lines people once and for all, use Hawkeye or whatever the call the system now. Move into the 21st century.

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clayqueen said:

Lief Sharaf has just clarified that the sponsors have insisted that the line judges are used on the 2 show courts because of advertising their merchandise.

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clayqueen said:

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