Agree. I can relate to his statement that the sweetspot can feel small, probably because of the lower twistweight (at least the doppio). However becauce of the beans no off center punishment..
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Diary of a Racketaholic
- Thread starter Ross K
- Start date
JGads
G.O.A.T.
Yeah me too. Also wish he'd have given the frames to several of his partners as he does in some of his reviews but they probably were like, "Pro Kennex? Nah I'm good."
I have to admit a dark secret, I'm kinda regretting not having snagged a Banana Lite to try properly when TW had their 25 percent off sale recently. I'm so vibing with the plush Banana feel right now, now that I've finally figured out a few beautiful string matches for it (BK, Element Rough, TB 17). But that's the sickness talking. I'm in such a happy place with the TB and Doppio right now.
Yeah, it's like literally every time I go from other sticks to these PKs, I feel like the tennis gets easier in terms of usable real estate, and power off the frame. Maybe I'm just so used to them now, or they match my swing type, not sure, but to me the sweet spot on these is just massive. I know he's a Prestige 360 MP fan. When I went from that to the doppio it was comical how much better I was hitting, how much easier it all was. But hey, different people perceive different things and it also has to do with how the user swings, how he hits the ball, etc. This is why reviews go only so far, everyone needs to find out for themselves if a stick is just right for them.
Seems like all of the Top Bananas I've seen fall right here, in the 325-330 range. The only crazily naughty sticks I ever saw in specs on offer were those standard Bananas - a couple of very high swingweights in that one mix I was given. But anytime I've been offered specs on Doppios or Top Bananas (and from Tim's measurement), it seems like they're tightly there in that 325-330 strung sweet spot. So fantastic that they managed to make this change to put out an XL frame that's this good, and this manageable.
tim-ay
Legend
I had some nice hitting with the top banana this weekend. It really is a sweet frame. I’ve been trying to not let it get it my head as I hadn’t been attending fight club for a few weeks, but the Top Banana plays so much like the Doppio, with a little more juice on serves and a little more butter on groundstrokes. The Doppio gives me a few things though, i love the over the top backhand on high balls. The Dope is my goat backhand racket when playing someone who hits deep with spin. I almost look forward to those balls with the Dope.
tim-ay
Legend
I think some weight on the handle helps too. I know that doesn’t make sense, but somehow it works with the beans. I took all of my weight off though as I’m playing with the SW1 - I will add it back to one Dope and really compare over time. Maybe it’s all in my head, lol, which is fine too.
JGads
G.O.A.T.
Yeah because you're a one-hander, right? So that makes sense to me as the whip and punch out of the beans means you can just come over the top, point, shoot. For my two-hander it's the opposite right now: the two-hander is so freaking sublime with the Top Banana, that I'm like drunk on it. Grip and rip and I'm just hitting line shots deep into the corners. I've never been so happy with any frame on this shot. Well, maybe the 7G, as it's even bossier, but let's not go there.
On the forehand wing, the whip of the Doppio means more of an extension-of-arm situation where I can flick it, drive it, whatever. And one key thing: I can generate a big ball out of a medium or nothing ball more easily with the Doppio, because I can just generate so much whip with it. Less so (but still great) with the TB. But the Top Banana also drives more effortlessly on the forehand when the pace is high and everything is rhythm. But I can also make an extra error or two on balls that I wouldn't with the Doppio. So it's a very difficult decision here, but I would probably take the Doppio's predictability for me vs the Top Banana's drive but a touch less ease.
Serves for me right now are about even, as ever since I made an adjustment of gripping the Doppio more off the end of the handle than I was before, essentially extending it and giving it more whip, I'm hitting hummers like never before with it, about on par with the Top Banana which is just effortless on serve to go big or slide it.
That's why Fight Club is such a dark and confusing place right now, why they keep trading blows with no end or victor in sight. I keep waiting for the Eureka moment, where it all becomes clear, or when one frame begins to solidly pull away in my little scoreboard of 'I hit better with this one today' ... I might be still posting about this battle when I'm 70.
But last night, hitting them both, going back and forth, I found myself shaking my head at how happy I was with them and how they were responding. Last night I was making a conscious effort to stay very low and driving through contact rather than raising up, and this meant these frames were even meaner. The partner was hitting some flat screamers at me that I absolutely ate up and drive back the other way with ease. Short hops. Volleys. Serves. It was all there, too. And when we played a practice set after mostly drilling and hitting I sailed through it, winning comfortably and playing equally well with both.
Just love these sticks.
tim-ay
Legend
Yes, one hander - which influences frames we like vs. two handers. The cool thing is that both of these sticks work so well with both types of backhands and are great on slice too. I’m also in love with them. I have temptation for a Limoncello, but that is more curiosity and just for the shock value of pulling that color out of my bag at the start of a hitting session. I wonder how many WTF is that? Comments I would get. Haha. Otherwise, except for the green machine, I have a frame filter of “yeah, that looks like a good frame, but it’s just going to sit there after a few hits” when it comes to everything else. It’s like being married or something.
JGads
G.O.A.T.
Tim my man, I feel you've reached the full allotment of "I'm kinda tempted by" or "Kinda curious about" posts regarding the Limoncello. At this point, a holic must just pull the trigger. Don't fight it any more. It's all very simple. If you let it.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah that was me with the VC95. I had interest for months and never pulled the trigger. Finally did and now it's my favorite frame in a long time.
Tread carefully.
Tread carefully.
JGads
G.O.A.T.
Also, Tim has a one-hander. The Espresso and Limoncellos of the world are brilliant for those. Thin feely beams, handles not so long as on the Qs. And according to Wikipedia the Limoncello "usually has a slightly turbid appearance, which originates from the presence of small (approximately 100 nanometers) essential oil droplets suspended in the drink. The spontaneous emulsification of hydrophobic essential oils in alcohol/water mixtures is often referred to as the ouzo effect."
I mean, come on.
I mean, come on.
ryushen21
Legend
I managed to get in a quick hit this morning with the restrung and leaded VC95.
TB in this frame is awesome. I didn't hate BK in it but TB just livens up the feel and response. The feedback was a lot clearer and I got distinct impressions of when I was just slightly off the sweet spot. More honesty = more correction = better playing. I went with my usual 47/45 but I might take it down a notch just to test it at a lower tension on the next outing. I'm picking up another set of TB and some Lynx Tour today so the VC95 should be good for the next few times before I order new reels.
The lead experiment was not as successful as I had hoped it would be. After the initial 2g of lead proved to be too much, I scaled back and took it down to 1g at 12 but the racquet still wasn't quite as happy as it was stock. The added plow was there but swinging it just felt off for a reason that I can't quite explain. I suspect it is most likely a placement issue at this point. So I'm going to remove the current lead and try 1g each at 10/2 to see if it's any happier that way.
My sneaking suspicion is that YY really does design its frames to perform their best in stock configuration. Leading up on these frames seems to be going on the proverbial wild goose chase only to return home to find what had in the first place was actually what you wanted.
TB in this frame is awesome. I didn't hate BK in it but TB just livens up the feel and response. The feedback was a lot clearer and I got distinct impressions of when I was just slightly off the sweet spot. More honesty = more correction = better playing. I went with my usual 47/45 but I might take it down a notch just to test it at a lower tension on the next outing. I'm picking up another set of TB and some Lynx Tour today so the VC95 should be good for the next few times before I order new reels.
The lead experiment was not as successful as I had hoped it would be. After the initial 2g of lead proved to be too much, I scaled back and took it down to 1g at 12 but the racquet still wasn't quite as happy as it was stock. The added plow was there but swinging it just felt off for a reason that I can't quite explain. I suspect it is most likely a placement issue at this point. So I'm going to remove the current lead and try 1g each at 10/2 to see if it's any happier that way.
My sneaking suspicion is that YY really does design its frames to perform their best in stock configuration. Leading up on these frames seems to be going on the proverbial wild goose chase only to return home to find what had in the first place was actually what you wanted.
What is "stock" configuration though? You can buy two of the same frame and end up with completely different specs that are not even close to the target specs. I get what you are saying though
It's important to know what you're looking for when adding the lead. Lead at 10/2 will increase twistweight and give more stability. If the frame is stable enough for you in stock form then I don't see the need to add lead at 10/2.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
I have 3 total grams at 3 and 9 on mine. Its not a lot but it has been great so far. Lead at 12 wasn't really doing it for me so i am staying with this. I may try extending the lead on the sides a little just to see what happens, but honestly this current setup plays incredible for me.
Tour bite is going to be tried in mine as well as will lynx tour. So far element has been amazing. Element is a pretty great string considering how soft and pockety it is for a poly. I dont notice any drop off in spin, so for me it will boil down to how long i can control the ball. So far it has been a laser.
Oddly it looks good in the frame as well, probably due to that copper flake in the pj.
I can play with pretty much any SW, but for me I must have a certain twistweight value to feel comfortable with a racket. Lead at 3 & 9 on some rackets is non-negotiable (Vcore 95, DR 98) all the other stuff is just for extra tweaking (Lead at 12 for extra SW, or on the handle for HL balance)
tim-ay
Legend
coolest sentence ever written.
tim-ay
Legend
Tried to order it yesterday, but they are out of stock until Aug 30th (for 3's). In a way that's good... buying a PK is a long term commitment. It shouldn't be easy.
ryushen21
Legend
Were you under the impression that I was unaware of how lead placement affects racquets? I can assure you this is not the case. My initial experiment with lead at 12 was based on what I was wanting to achieve with the racquet as well as the feedback of other trusted posters.
When I say stock, I mean with no modifications made to the frame. So no change in grips or any lead added anywhere on the frame. I only have one VC95 so that is my only reference point with this racquet.
I honestly may end up leaving the VC95 leadless. 10/2 might work but it's not like the frame is suffering by not having lead on it. I just want to find that little bit of extra plow without taking away from what the racquet adoes so well.
So with Element you are getting softness without it being muted? That is an intriguing prospect.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah, IMO the feel is awesome and comfortable.
I think you can also add a little lead at 3 and 9 and get some nice plow without affecting the racquet. My frame still weighs 332 with an OG so its real fast through the air.
I knew what you meant by "stock" i was just trying to point out that frames can come out with completely different specs than what the manufacturer intended (i.e Yonex) . Wasn't trying to question your knowledge of lead tape, I just try to be as detailed as possible.
Coming from a ~350 SW prior to the VC95. I added 4g at 12 to my VC 95 before even hitting with it just because I didn't want there to be a drastic difference in SW, it plays fine for me but I am curious how it plays with a lower SW.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
For me it is amazing and I was playing at 335SW 16 months ago. It just matters how you like to hit the ball. The Vc95 seems to suit every style of play - mine is heavy spin but I like to attack and drive the ball and just mix in high and heavy spin when I don't get a ball I like want to attack. So I like a frame that I can whip fast through contact since it helps me jump all over short balls.
Not sure I could play at a 317 SW with other sticks though. It seems like these 2 Yonex frames I have seem to play 10 SW points above what they actually are.
I am still figuring out the Vcore Pro 97. It hits a nice deep ball at 321, but so far for me it is more of a grinders frame than an attacking one like the Vc95.
ryushen21
Legend
Guess I need to add Element to the list. The frame already feels pretty stable which is why I went with lead at 12 to start. Maybe 3/9 is the best fit though. Good thing I've got plenty of lead to test it all out.
Trust me man, I've been through the wringer with a ton of frames and lived the nightmare of hopelessly trying to get frames matched up when it just wasn't going to work. The variances will always be there but sometimes you just have to go with it based on what you have.
As I mentioned above, the racquet already felt pretty stable and as I'm attempting to increase the plow on the frame, 12 was the most logical starting point. It may be that 3/9 ends up being the best spot, but gotta test it for myself to find out.
RF_PRO_STAFF
Professional
I've had multiple setups with mine over the time I've had these frames but I'm fully committed to the one I have now. I fully matched them all 3 two weeks ago. As you know the '18 version.
- Yonex AC128EX base grips
- Small butt cap flare
- Yonex Supergrap white overgrips
- 2g lead at 3&9
- Between 1.5g and 2.5g lead at 12, depending on the frame to match swingweights. One of the frames has a tiny bit of tungsten putty under the butt cap to match weight and balance.
- Head Hawk Touch 1.20 / Tier One Ghost Wire 1.17 @ 22/21kg (48.5/46.3 lbs)
- Small rubber band as a dampener
Gets me to final specs:
336 grams (maximum of 0.2g weight difference between the lightest and heaviest frame)
316 mm
323 SW
So still quite light specs for a racquet like this. Like most of us said, it doesn't need that much weight to play wonderfully.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah its a guessing game without an RDC which is why I'm real happy with this SW1 machine. It answered a lot of questions for me. In the past I was going by feel or running to an RDC and hoping I tweaked the lead right. It was not ideal at all.
Yours may be more stable than mine. So there is that variance to take into account as well. Although I do think that this frame plays great in stock form. The thing to look at is if you are coming through your serve too quickly. That can be an indicator to add a little lead.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah that is real similar to mine when I had lead at 12. Basically the same. I am trying to track down a 2018. It's not easy but I got some friendly help there. I'd love to have both.
RF_PRO_STAFF
Professional
By the way, I still haven't managed to get this RDC to get me accurate SW readings. I've been in contact with like 7 different people.
I'm going to try to calibrate it, will happen soon.
I'm going to try to calibrate it, will happen soon.
RF_PRO_STAFF
Professional
I'd be curious to see how you would compare them. I have no real itch to try the '21 though.
I can understand that - it is rather weird, but good at the same time. With the 21 VCore 100, I can definitely playing a lower SW as other ones. I have gone as low as unmodified setup, but in the end I had to bump up abit, but nowhere close to my go to spec.
I think with the 18 VC95, I will start stock and maybe add some lead at 3 and 9 to bump up the SW abit, as required.
Nollid
Professional
Viva Seppio! He just has to make it to Saturday for me to get a chance to see him. Oh how sweet it would be to see a PK in live action at the US Open.
The balls. The hair. The frame.
Seppi’s coach is clearly a legend.
el sergento
Hall of Fame
The balls. The hair. The frame.
Seppi’s coach is clearly a legend.
Limoncello colors for the MF win!
tim-ay
Legend
Shaving your head is the easy way out. Rock on, mah coach! Clearly a hipster.
The balls. The hair. The frame.
Seppi’s coach is clearly a legend.
Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
If you can wait, like indefinitely, and I do mean that in the most veritable sense of the word, I could pass along this lost espresso for little to nothing. It's two grip sizes too small, and I know after reshaping the grip on the L3 BA Pro that the espresso L2 will not work without becoming vague and numb. I'll hit it long enough to get a feel for it, and off it'll go. If the feel/response rivals the BA Pro, I'll probably purchase a Limoncello, that is if TW ever carries it. I think a bag full of BA Pros are my future, but if you can do an L2, give me a week or two with this espresso, and it's yours. It's coming any day now. Just took a 30 second pause to check, and sure enough, it's 'in transit to the next facility.' Probably mine, surely.
JGads
G.O.A.T.
Yep, I know that all too well.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Miracles do happen.
I managed to procure a used 2018 Vcore 95 in grip 2. I think this one will get the Tour Bite treatment as it is apparently softer.
I managed to procure a used 2018 Vcore 95 in grip 2. I think this one will get the Tour Bite treatment as it is apparently softer.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
I'm starting to buy into (more like, actually watch) this Karue guy's yt channel. Obviously a top 500 level player, but his feedback on the Vc95 is dead on. I mean, it mirrors my thoughts exactly.Especially how he describes the access to spin and how the frame plays bigger than it's size. He also says he loved the Vcore Pro 330 Tour G, and I totally agree with that. What an amazing frame, albeit a rather advanced one. I do agree that the move to 16x19 took away the line drive control of the 16x20 patterns. I am seeing that same thing happening in the Vcore Pro 97, but that sweet feel keeps me motivated to stick with it and see how it goes over time.
He says that he finds Lynx Tour to be soft, which is interesting. But the way he describes that string makes me definitely want to try it now. Once I get the 2018 Vc95 and string it with Tour Bite, ill figure out which model I want to try the Lynx Tour in. Part of me doesn't want to mess with a good thing and just keep going with the 2021 VC95/Element combo. Basically I am looking at a Tour Bite/Lynx Tour showdown.
If I had more than one pack I would probably try the Lynx Tour in the Top Banana as well, but I also think moving down to 1.20 was a really nice decision for that frame. That got the SW noticeably lower, and an XL swinging at 328-330 is pretty rad.
I'm also strongly considering grabbing the black Yonex bag because the local 25% off sale drops these things down to a rather appealing price. I just am not sure if it can hang with the Wilson Ultra bag(which would basically become my PK holding center).
Anyway, the video I referenced:
He says that he finds Lynx Tour to be soft, which is interesting. But the way he describes that string makes me definitely want to try it now. Once I get the 2018 Vc95 and string it with Tour Bite, ill figure out which model I want to try the Lynx Tour in. Part of me doesn't want to mess with a good thing and just keep going with the 2021 VC95/Element combo. Basically I am looking at a Tour Bite/Lynx Tour showdown.
If I had more than one pack I would probably try the Lynx Tour in the Top Banana as well, but I also think moving down to 1.20 was a really nice decision for that frame. That got the SW noticeably lower, and an XL swinging at 328-330 is pretty rad.
I'm also strongly considering grabbing the black Yonex bag because the local 25% off sale drops these things down to a rather appealing price. I just am not sure if it can hang with the Wilson Ultra bag(which would basically become my PK holding center).
Anyway, the video I referenced:
Wheelz
Hall of Fame
I just had my first go with Lynx Tour 1.25 coming off Confidential and a few rounds of PTP. It is a soft feeling string (and heavier). Good feel even if soft, like it has a good balance. I don’t feel it has as much spin as confidential or probably other Solinco strings but it’s still good. If anything it’s close. Probably why Karue likes it he seems to want more the direct flight path of a ball.
Edit : ill add that despite the soft feel, i don’t feel it’s powerful. Good control string.
JGads
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, that's why I mentioned the 95 plus Lynx Tour as going "full Karue" ... I think Lynx Tour is a very good string but it's been a touch too firm for me in some sticks, however in the VCore 95 demo I had the combo was excellent. Have no comparison on another string in that stick since that was the only string I ever tried. Will be a good comp for you on the 95s. The older one is awesome, but I loved the new 95 as well. I didn't hit them at the same time, just felt like both of them were sticks I would be happy to play with (but not as happy as with my PKs). You'll have fun comparing them. Or a terrible time, depending on how you look at it. I don't think they're very far apart. Little more in this one, little more in that one, it seemed.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah I have read that the frames are so similar that I am thinking I can just use both with no issues now that I can match up racquets pretty easily. I am sure I will have a favorite but like you said, the new one is awesome. So a little softer version could be great to have around.
I feel like a deserter of Lorenzo, but I have not been this enamored with a racquet in a long time. It has even made the VCP97, which I wanted for months to seem more like a buttery luxury than anything else. Well at least, so far.
Vicious49
Legend
His channel is great. I do think some of his reviews are skewed towards Yonex as of late since hes osakas hitting partner and shes sponsored by them. I love the videos where he gives tips on improving your game and event he 1st person POV game play vids are pretty cool.
Vicious49
Legend
I just picked up a reel of Kirschbaum Evolution and Pro Line II. Im not all that picky when it comes to strings and I learned recently from watching some youtube vids that as a flatter hitter im probably not gaining much from shaped strings. I should do just fine with round poly. These come out to $5-$6 a string job. Cant best that!
ryushen21
Legend
The infatuation was destined to wear off. One must remember that Godzilla strikes fiercest when he has lulled everyone into a sense of false security.
I also must admit that after this afternoon's session I'm once again questioning if the VC95 could in fact be my main. There's not a thing about I don't like and it just plays so damn well.
tim-ay
Legend
He’s definitely getting something for using yonex. Doesn’t make his views wrong but for sure he is not going to be sporting a Wilson.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
Yeah its not a demanding frame and I play noticeably better with it when I switch to it. There is something about it that makes everything else seem clunky. the fact that the power is so big with such a low SW is a big advantage for sure.
So my friend just got the new Yonex Bag and says it is way better quality than their old models and that the shoulder straps are actually padded now . My one complaint about the Wilson Ultra is it really doesn't have great pocket options. It sounds like Yonex finally figured out how to make a great bag.
Yeah I don't take these YT guys too serious but his actual description of the frame really mirrors my experience to the T. Also he did play Yonex in college and then got a Head sponsorship, so he probably does have a legit affinity for it. Of course it obviously helps to be on Osaka's team. He got to test prototypes and everything.
tim-ay
Legend
He has the same scale I have. Lol. He must have Amazon’d that recently. I may suck compared to Karue, and we use different rackets. But we use the same 15 buck scale. He** yeah.
JGads
G.O.A.T.
Lorenzo and I will be fine. I remain happily overcaffeinated and he's drunk.
