Question for Some - (Open to All, of course)

RaulRamirez

Legend
Yes, some fans gloat too much (Note; when your favorite player wins or your least favorite player loses, you haven't accomplished anything), but I hear so much incessant whining when a "rival" player achieves something.

You know the pejorative terms: Weak Era, Mugs, Weak Draw, Career Inflation Era, and so forth, and then it often deteriorates from there. And sure, even if they started it (is there still any sand left in the box?), why continue the same tired stuff.

Really, why continue to watch tennis if it's of such terrible quality? Peak Roger, Pete, and even Andre (to name a few) aren't returning to the tour.
For those who are mortified (especially) that most of Fed's records have been surpassed, try to deal with it, and stop trying to convince us of how crappy tennis is now, how people aren't supposed to win past a certain age or what would have happened if 35-ish Novak or Rafa had faced peak Roger or another rival.

If you still consider Roger the greatest ever, there are still objective things that can you point to, but there aren't too many left. But he had an amazing career, will be a legend for the rest of his life and possibly beyond, and there is no diminishing what he accomplished and the way in which he did so -- almost always with style, grace and class.

Although The Big 3's careers overlapped for a lot of years (I mean, the three matchups are the three most played in OE history), they didn't grow up at the exact same time and under the exact same conditions. That's impossible and there's no way to account for every variable. Like or dislike any (and I like them all, though root for Novak and Rafa much more so), there is no reason to insult what any of them have accomplished. While I regard Sampras and Borg (in the all-OE) as similar talents, each of The Big 3 have separated themselves achievements-wise for quite a while now.

Try to accept the present...life (even tennis life) goes on...and let's see what will be in the coming season(s).
 
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NatF

Bionic Poster
Well Nadal fans patented the term "weak era" long before Fed fans began using it and many of those same fans still use it to bemoan Djokovic's accomplishments (and vice versa). For example see many Nadal fans comments on Djokovic's recent Wimbledons, likewise Djokovic fans have had much to say about the most recent AO among other Fedal wins.

Laying all this at the feet of Fed fans is a pretty unfair @RaulRamirez, if the general sentiment is to just try to enjoy tennis and not worry about mudslinging and how each and every match effects your favourites legacy then I agree - but one of the three major groups on here will always fire a first shot so in practice it's very hard...
 
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That's all very nice. But this is the internet and it's a forum. People with reasonable perspectives -and I'm not one of them - like yourself are probably well suited to reasoned discussion on serious sites or even in person or to reading a balanced newspaper article and having thoughts about it.
You can't change the culture, bruh. This is how this place is and maybe the question is-why you wasting your time here?
This thread is like storming into a brothel and wanting to know why everyone's drunk and wearing no clothes and why can't we cover up and hold hands and sip tea.
 

junior74

Talk Tennis Guru
I'm quite certain any of the big5 (Bjorn, Pete, Roger, Rafa, Novak) would sit on most of the records, if he was the last in line. They have all reached for bars others sat and overcome them. It's the way of the world, really. In recent years, racquet/ string technology have stopped making progress, so physicality/ diet is now the field of opportunity. Nice post.
 

ND-13

Hall of Fame
All 3 fanbases are guilty of this, yet OP in his usual humble style attributes it to Federer fanbase. At least he truthfully admits he likes Djokovic and Nadal more.

I have to ask OP how many times he has questioned the Novak fanbase when they have asterisked Rafa's AO or USO achievements.
 

a10best

Hall of Fame
Yea, people become too tribal and need to take time to smell the roses. All of these great players have bloomed and each should be appreciated and applauded for their extraordinary physical and mental skills. ok enough with the rainbow rosy posy group hug view, I still like Fed and Sampras the most.

JK- I actually do appreciate what each has achieved in their career and their different skills. They've kept my interest and were inspirational along the way.
 

TimHenmanATG

Hall of Fame
Yes, some fans gloat too much (Note; when your favorite player wins or your least favorite player loses, you haven't accomplished anything), but I hear so much incessant whining when a "rival" player achieves something.

You know the pejorative terms: Weak Era, Mugs, Weak Draw, Career Inflation Era, and so forth, and then it often deteriorates from there. And sure, even if they started it (is there still any sand left in the box?), why continue the same tired stiff.

Really, why continue to watch tennis if it's of such terrible quality? Peak Roger, Pete, and even Andre (to name a few) aren't returning to the tour.
For those who are mortified (especially) that most of Fed's records have been surpassed, try to deal with it, and stop trying to convince us of how crappy tennis is now, how people aren't supposed to win past a certain age or what would have happened if 35-ish Novak or Rafa had faced peak Roger or another rival.

If you still consider Roger the greatest ever, there are still objective things that can you point to, but there aren't too many left. But he had an amazing career, will be a legend for the rest of his life and possibly beyond, and there is no diminishing what he accomplished and the way in which he did so -- almost always with style, grace and class.

Although The Big 3's careers overlapped for a lot of years (I mean, the three matchups are the three most played in OE history), they didn't grow up at the exact same time and under the exact same conditions. That's impossible and there's no way to account for every variable. Like or dislike any (and I like them all, though root for Novak and Rafa much more so), there is no reason to insult what any of them have accomplished. While I regard Sampras and Borg (in the all-OE) as similar talents, each of The Big 3 have separated themselves achievements-wise for quite a while now.

Try to accept the present...life (even tennis life) goes on...and let's see what will be in the coming season(s).

Unfotunately, a lot of people attach a sportsperson or team to their psyche.

When that player/team loses, the fan also psychologically ''loses''. When that player/team wins, the fan also psychologically ''wins''.

It's all rather pathetic, but it shouldn't be that hard to analyse...
 

ND-13

Hall of Fame
Unfotunately, a lot of people attach a sportsperson or team to their psyche.

When that player/team loses, the fan also psychologically ''loses''. When that player/team wins, the fan also psychologically ''wins''.

It's all rather pathetic, but it shouldn't be that hard to analyse...

I find it hilarious when on social media fans claim "We won"... LMAO, it was Djokovic who struggled for 3 hours to put Medvedev aside and here some are gloating as though they just fought like a warrior.
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
That's all very nice. But this is the internet and it's a forum. People with reasonable perspectives -and I'm not one of them - like yourself are probably well suited to reasoned discussion on serious sites or even in person or to reading a balanced newspaper article and having thoughts about it.
You can't change the culture, bruh. This is how this place is and maybe the question is-why you wasting your time here?
This thread is like storming into a brothel and wanting to know why everyone's drunk and wearing no clothes and why can't we cover up and hold hands and sip tea.
Good point, great analogy (and I would never do that in a brothel).
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
I find it hilarious when on social media fans claim "We won"... LMAO, it was Djokovic who struggled for 3 hours to put Medvedev aside and here some are gloating as though they just fought like a warrior.
Right,
Even my brother congratulated me when "my" NFL team won last week.
My reaction: Thanks, i guess, but what did I do?
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
Unfotunately, a lot of people attach a sportsperson or team to their psyche.

When that player/team loses, the fan also psychologically ''loses''. When that player/team wins, the fan also psychologically ''wins''.

It's all rather pathetic, but it shouldn't be that hard to analyse...
I get it -- don't really like it, but certainly get it.
And I'm not pretending that I'm some sort of elder stateman with a well-respected voice that will affect message-board culture.
(Well, maybe for a few moments there< i was -- and what I posted was sincere. I just think that there are some very knowledgeable fans here -- moreso than me -- and a lot of good people who seem to really know tennis. It's just a shame that there can't be more of a sense of appreciation here.
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
I'm quite certain any of the big5 (Bjorn, Pete, Roger, Rafa, Novak) would sit on most of the records, if he was the last in line. They have all reached for bars others sat and overcome them. It's the way of the world, really. In recent years, racquet/ string technology have stopped making progress, so physicality/ diet is now the field of opportunity. Nice post.
That's an interesting supposition. We'll never, ever know. My Spidey sense, though, is that Borg burned out early and may not have had the mentality to stay with it long enough, and Sampras worked through some physical issues and may not have had the overall stamina for that long of a career. I may be totally wrong, of course.
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
Federer fans had to deal with insults/weak-era comments ad nauseam from Nadalovic fans for a decade or so, but now are expected to sing kumbaya while Nadalovic rack up titles during the weakest era ever. :rolleyes:
I'm not trying to direct this just to Fed fans, but will admit that it's become so commonplace for many Fedfans to constantly just tear down every player, and everything about the last several years. Of course, there's toxicity among all 'tribes", but even the tamer, every day tearing down of current tennis just gets me down.

I've followed tennis a long time, but this is the first tennis message board I've been on, and it's been a little more than 4 years for me. Believe me, I have also criticized those who have put down Fed and his supposed weak era competition. To me, it's okay to say that one period, on balance, was a little stronger or weaker than another, but posters go so much further than that...and it just gets accepted.
Regardless of levels of competition, to me, Roger is the best ever (OE) for a 4-5 or 6-year period -- the best prime. Novak, to me, has the best overall set of accomplishments, and to me, Rafa is the greatest single talent I've seen in the OE. Perhaps, all of this is debatable, but I have massive respect for each of them.
 

duaneeo

Legend
I'm not trying to direct this just to Fed fans, but will admit that it's become so commonplace for many Fedfans to constantly just tear down every player, and everything about the last several years. Of course, there's toxicity among all 'tribes", but even the tamer, every day tearing down of current tennis just gets me down.

You clearly directed this to Fed fans:

Really, why continue to watch tennis if it's of such terrible quality? Peak Roger, Pete, and even Andre (to name a few) aren't returning to the tour.
For those who are mortified (especially) that most of Fed's records have been surpassed, try to deal with it, and stop trying to convince us of how crappy tennis is now, how people aren't supposed to win past a certain age or what would have happened if 35-ish Novak or Rafa had faced peak Roger or another rival.
 
Federer fans had to deal with insults/weak-era comments ad nauseam from Nadalovic fans for a decade or so, but now are expected to sing kumbaya while Nadalovic rack up titles during the weakest era ever. :rolleyes:
Exactly. I too noted the 'even if they started it, why continue it' part of the OP. Well, it's called giving the same energy and it's quite natural. Those who come to TTW for a civil discourse woould certainly struggle to find it on GPPD but it's not mainly because of Federer fans' 'whining'. The environment of elevating someone's favorite up by bringing other people's favorite down, or even doing the latter without the former, has been common for the entire time I've been following this forum. Putting in question one fanbase for retaliation is not rational, despite what the OP might think while trying to be civil in their reproach.
 

junior74

Talk Tennis Guru
That's an interesting supposition. We'll never, ever know. My Spidey sense, though, is that Borg burned out early and may not have had the mentality to stay with it long enough, and Sampras worked through some physical issues and may not have had the overall stamina for that long of a career. I may be totally wrong, of course.

I think timeline is a big part of this. They are without doubt the same type of rare talents. My point is with more to reach for, they could all reach for more.
 
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Big 3 fans just will always lean in the way that makes their favorite look the greater of the three, maybe not the most objective or mature behavior but that's not a big problem IMO.

The problem is when people on the internet seem to genuinely despise each other because of disagreements about tennis players . And unfortunately there is a lot of that on TTW. If some Big 3 fans could just accept that their views or beliefs is something people are allowed to disagree on, there would be no issues.
 

ffw2

Hall of Fame
Looking forward to the OP's responses to the users who called out the sanctimony here.

Lecturing folks under the guise of some sort of objective voice of reason...

All the while getting in lame cheap shots, and hoping no one would notice.

Yawn.
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
I have some questions for you.

Do you still keep in contact with Gottfried? Were you guys just tennis partners or friends as well?

Do you still play tennis?
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
I have some questions for you.

Do you still keep in contact with Gottfried? Were you guys just tennis partners or friends as well?

Do you still play tennis?
I am not in the know about my screen-named alter ego, but the real me is old enough to remember that great doubles team.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
It comes from the top

Djok's grudge against Fed has been taken up by his followers

He has brought a lot of negative energy to the game, on-court and off-court. And the two-man race where he and Nadal are the overwhelming favorites to win every Slam is getting stifling...it's choking the game! We get all these exciting matches with upcoming players, and then Nadal and Djok just show up at the big ones and cruise through. It's so predictable it's sad
 

The Guru

Legend
I do wonder why the people who whine so much about current tennis (mostly Fed fans but others too) keep watching. In almost every match thread you see them bemoaning how bad of a match is how unwatcheable it is etc ad nauseam. You listen to them talk about it there's maybe one or two matches that are only ok every year. Don't get why anyone would dedicate so much time to something they think sucks and they don't enjoy but to each their own I guess.
 

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
This board is a dedicated battlefield for the Big 3 fan wars. And everyone who stays here for longer than a few months, has developed a taste for blood.

Weak era arguments are just a regrettable, but essential, part of the arsenal.
 

Oceans II

Professional
One word: COPE as they know their fav will end up a very distant third. I don't even think they believe what they post as all the statistics, experts, etc say otherwise. o_O I and a few others can easily destroy the competition argument but there is no point. You get what you deserve. ;)
 

NonP

Legend
Yes, some fans gloat too much (Note; when your favorite player wins or your least favorite player loses, you haven't accomplished anything), but I hear so much incessant whining when a "rival" player achieves something.

You know the pejorative terms: Weak Era, Mugs, Weak Draw, Career Inflation Era, and so forth, and then it often deteriorates from there. And sure, even if they started it (is there still any sand left in the box?), why continue the same tired stiff.

Really, why continue to watch tennis if it's of such terrible quality? Peak Roger, Pete, and even Andre (to name a few) aren't returning to the tour.
For those who are mortified (especially) that most of Fed's records have been surpassed, try to deal with it, and stop trying to convince us of how crappy tennis is now, how people aren't supposed to win past a certain age or what would have happened if 35-ish Novak or Rafa had faced peak Roger or another rival.

If you still consider Roger the greatest ever, there are still objective things that can you point to, but there aren't too many left. But he had an amazing career, will be a legend for the rest of his life and possibly beyond, and there is no diminishing what he accomplished and the way in which he did so -- almost always with style, grace and class.

Although The Big 3's careers overlapped for a lot of years (I mean, the three matchups are the three most played in OE history), they didn't grow up at the exact same time and under the exact same conditions. That's impossible and there's no way to account for every variable. Like or dislike any (and I like them all, though root for Novak and Rafa much more so), there is no reason to insult what any of them have accomplished. While I regard Sampras and Borg (in the all-OE) as similar talents, each of The Big 3 have separated themselves achievements-wise for quite a while now.

Try to accept the present...life (even tennis life) goes on...and let's see what will be in the coming season(s).

If U think this is bad U definitely weren't around in the late aughts/early '10s when the Feddies were outright psychotic. Multiply what you're seeing from the cult now by 10 and you've got a rough idea of their unhinged fanaticism and delusionality then. Naturally my boy Pistol was the most popular target, but just about every ATG of yore came under fire when any1 dared suggest Fraud wasn't really all that in this or that area.

Now that ain't necessarily cuz the Federer posse is the worst, but a natural result of their pin-up boy enjoying a virtual monopoly over the tour w/nobody to seriously challenge him. If Nadalovic had already been creeping up on him I'm sure the hero worship would've been more evenly spread out. To tweak a fav cliche, idiots R idiots regardless of era and the collective IQ of GPPD would've always been stuck in 2 digits sans moi almost single-handedly keeping it afloat.

The one thing I do regret, though, is the steep decline of FPPT. It really used to be where the grown-ups hung out and engaged in serious talk and research, without which I prolly would've never joined this funny farm to begin w/. But now there's hardly any difference between the two subforums and I'm not sure if it even makes sense to keep them separated anymore.

And seriously, the stale "Please move to the former pro section" quip needs to die a quick and sudden death.

Good point, great analogy (and I would never do that in a brothel).

So... you've been to a brothel?
 

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
Federer fans had to deal with insults/weak-era comments ad nauseam from Nadalovic fans for a decade or so, but now are expected to sing kumbaya while Nadalovic rack up titles during the weakest era ever. :rolleyes:

Yeah and let's pretend that Fed fans were angels in that period... the gloating was as bad as we get from Djok fans now..

Your mate used to throw up his list in every thread he entered... haven't seen it in a long while now..
 

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
I do wonder why the people who whine so much about current tennis (mostly Fed fans but others too) keep watching. In almost every match thread you see them bemoaning how bad of a match is how unwatcheable it is etc ad nauseam. You listen to them talk about it there's maybe one or two matches that are only ok every year. Don't get why anyone would dedicate so much time to something they think sucks and they don't enjoy but to each their own I guess.

Good point , son!
 

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
Exactly. I too noted the 'even if they started it, why continue it' part of the OP. Well, it's called giving the same energy and it's quite natural. Those who come to TTW for a civil discourse woould certainly struggle to find it on GPPD but it's not mainly because of Federer fans' 'whining'. The environment of elevating someone's favorite up by bringing other people's favorite down, or even doing the latter without the former, has been common for the entire time I've been following this forum. Putting in question one fanbase for retaliation is not rational, despite what the OP might think while trying to be civil in their reproach.

Your words are sensible now but after AO2017 there were threads were you were gloating and mocking posters who said Fed's slams can be surpassed.
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
If U think this is bad U definitely weren't around in the late aughts/early '10s when the Feddies were outright psychotic. Multiply what you're seeing from the cult now by 10 and you've got a rough idea of their unhinged fanaticism and delusionality then. Naturally my boy Pistol was the most popular target, but just about every ATG of yore came under fire when any1 dared suggest Fraud wasn't really all that in this or that area.

Now that ain't necessarily cuz the Federer posse is the worst, but a natural result of their pin-up boy enjoying a virtual monopoly over the tour w/nobody to seriously challenge him. If Nadalovic had already been creeping up on him I'm sure the hero worship would've been more evenly spread out. To tweak a fav cliche, idiots R idiots regardless of era and the collective IQ of GPPD would've always been stuck in 2 digits sans moi almost single-handedly keeping it afloat.

The one thing I do regret, though, is the steep decline of FPPT. It really used to be where the grown-ups hung out and engaged in serious talk and research, without which I prolly would've never joined this funny farm to begin w/. But now there's hardly any difference between the two subforums and I'm not sure if it even makes sense to keep them separated anymore.

And seriously, the stale "Please move to the former pro section" quip needs to die a quick and sudden death.



So... you've been to a brothel?
No comment on the brothel - just having fun with someone's analogy. In truth, I've visited brothels as often as I've played Wimbledon finals (and I was a pretty good high school player, who had fleeting moments of very good play over the years.)
...
I'm not going to tell you, or anyone, that one fan base is better or worse than another.
I truly like all three members of The Big 3, but I've long thought that many fans kind of replicate the worst perceived qualities of their heroes.

In no order, quite a few Djokovic fans tend to be cocky with a chip on their shoulder.
Quite a few Federer fans feel a certain entitlement that goes with being perceived as the greatest player the world has ever...will ever...see.
Quite a few Nadal fans - and this is harder to describe - have fed into the myth/the aura of his invincibility, when healthy.

What mostly sparked this post is what I've seen for a while now. While there's always been toxicity (in my 4-plus years here), it's just become so commonplace for so many to denigrate the product that is presented now. And not only is it about the tennis, but it gets very personal in that approach. Anyway, I don't suppose any of my rants will change anything...
 

NonP

Legend
No comment on the brothel - just having fun with someone's analogy. In truth, I've visited brothels as often as I've played Wimbledon finals (and I was a pretty good high school player, who had fleeting moments of very good play over the years.)

This sounds less like a blanket denial than an I-could-never-do-something-like-that.

I'm not going to tell you, or anyone, that one fan base is better or worse than another.
I truly like all three members of The Big 3, but I've long thought that many fans kind of replicate the worst perceived qualities of their heroes.

In no order, quite a few Djokovic fans tend to be cocky with a chip on their shoulder.
Quite a few Federer fans feel a certain entitlement that goes with being perceived as the greatest player the world has ever...will ever...see.
Quite a few Nadal fans - and this is harder to describe - have fed into the myth/the aura of his invincibility, when healthy.

What mostly sparked this post is what I've seen for a while now. While there's always been toxicity (in my 4-plus years here), it's just become so commonplace for so many to denigrate the product that is presented now. And not only is it about the tennis, but it gets very personal in that approach. Anyway, I don't suppose any of my rants will change anything...

Your diagnosis of Big 3 fandom is bang on, especially the Feddies' puerile sense of entitlement regarding their boy's untouchable GOATness (trust me, I should know) and VB's masochistic worship of the Humble Bull's heroic perseverance despite all bodily obstacles Mother Nature keeps throwing his way. I'd just modify your assessment of Djokernation slightly and say plain schadenfreude is largely what drives their chest-thumping. That is, their freedom fighter (LOL) has been dismissed as the least popular and charismatic of the trio by so many, and for so long, that to watch his "haters' melt down over his steady rise to the top of the GOAT pantheon brings an especially sweet dose of in-your-face satisfaction. In fact that's kinda what made moi a lifelong fan in the first place.

It's indeed foolish to split hairs over which of the Big 3 fanbases is better or worse than the others. Push comes to shove and I'd say VB has been the "best"-behaved overall, but that's only because Bull has played second fiddle to Fedovic for most of his career. Had he been a front-runner himself from the get-go his groupies would've been just as insufferable, I guarantee that.

So none of this "toxicity" is really new. I'd actually say, again, that it's more evenly spread out today, which makes it more manageable in my view. And I'd much rather have infantile tribalism than the unhinged anti-vax crackpottery or CCP/Kremlin propaganda that we've seen from more than a few useful idiots over the last 2-3 years. If I were the mods I'd crack down on that kind of positively harmful mis/disinformation and sociopathy and kick out the worst offenders for good, not these silly fanwars which ultimately amount to nothing.
 

RS

Bionic Poster
I do wonder why the people who whine so much about current tennis (mostly Fed fans but others too) keep watching. In almost every match thread you see them bemoaning how bad of a match is how unwatcheable it is etc ad nauseam. You listen to them talk about it there's maybe one or two matches that are only ok every year. Don't get why anyone would dedicate so much time to something they think sucks and they don't enjoy but to each their own I guess.
Maybe because some of them want to control the dynamics of the forum and still stay to defend the guy they support? Idk.
 

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
Maybe because some of them want to control the dynamics of the forum and still stay to defend the guy they support? Idk.

So basically they are doing activism?lol , it's silly if they think they can influence tennis narrative by saying same thing time and again over a tiny internet board most tennis fans or players have never heard of.

They would be more successful in their activism by joining Twitter or protesting outside new generation matches.
 

skaj

Legend
Yes, some fans gloat too much (Note; when your favorite player wins or your least favorite player loses, you haven't accomplished anything), but I hear so much incessant whining when a "rival" player achieves something.

You know the pejorative terms: Weak Era, Mugs, Weak Draw, Career Inflation Era, and so forth, and then it often deteriorates from there. And sure, even if they started it (is there still any sand left in the box?), why continue the same tired stiff.

Really, why continue to watch tennis if it's of such terrible quality? Peak Roger, Pete, and even Andre (to name a few) aren't returning to the tour.
For those who are mortified (especially) that most of Fed's records have been surpassed, try to deal with it, and stop trying to convince us of how crappy tennis is now, how people aren't supposed to win past a certain age or what would have happened if 35-ish Novak or Rafa had faced peak Roger or another rival.

If you still consider Roger the greatest ever, there are still objective things that can you point to, but there aren't too many left. But he had an amazing career, will be a legend for the rest of his life and possibly beyond, and there is no diminishing what he accomplished and the way in which he did so -- almost always with style, grace and class.

Although The Big 3's careers overlapped for a lot of years (I mean, the three matchups are the three most played in OE history), they didn't grow up at the exact same time and under the exact same conditions. That's impossible and there's no way to account for every variable. Like or dislike any (and I like them all, though root for Novak and Rafa much more so), there is no reason to insult what any of them have accomplished. While I regard Sampras and Borg (in the all-OE) as similar talents, each of The Big 3 have separated themselves achievements-wise for quite a while now.

Try to accept the present...life (even tennis life) goes on...and let's see what will be in the coming season(s).


The only pejorative term there is "mug". The rest is tennis analysis terms.

Seems like you are the one who need to deal with something and accept it, like the fact that the quality of tennis today is worse than it used to be. The "convincing" is what those who are trying to say that tennis is as exciting today need. Haven't met many of them though, if any.
 

D.Nalby12

G.O.A.T.
Career inflation era is reality - no sane person can deny that quality of Tennis deteriorated a lot in last decade. It has to do with failure of 90's Tennis generation which couldn't produce even a random Slam winners. This produced a vacuum of young quality Tennis players which allowed Djoko/Nadal to produce more dominant numbers in their thirties compared to their prime years. Federer got benefit of inflation era as well but it was limited to just a couple Slam wins..
 

thrust

Legend
Yes, some fans gloat too much (Note; when your favorite player wins or your least favorite player loses, you haven't accomplished anything), but I hear so much incessant whining when a "rival" player achieves something.

You know the pejorative terms: Weak Era, Mugs, Weak Draw, Career Inflation Era, and so forth, and then it often deteriorates from there. And sure, even if they started it (is there still any sand left in the box?), why continue the same tired stuff.

Really, why continue to watch tennis if it's of such terrible quality? Peak Roger, Pete, and even Andre (to name a few) aren't returning to the tour.
For those who are mortified (especially) that most of Fed's records have been surpassed, try to deal with it, and stop trying to convince us of how crappy tennis is now, how people aren't supposed to win past a certain age or what would have happened if 35-ish Novak or Rafa had faced peak Roger or another rival.

If you still consider Roger the greatest ever, there are still objective things that can you point to, but there aren't too many left. But he had an amazing career, will be a legend for the rest of his life and possibly beyond, and there is no diminishing what he accomplished and the way in which he did so -- almost always with style, grace and class.

Although The Big 3's careers overlapped for a lot of years (I mean, the three matchups are the three most played in OE history), they didn't grow up at the exact same time and under the exact same conditions. That's impossible and there's no way to account for every variable. Like or dislike any (and I like them all, though root for Novak and Rafa much more so), there is no reason to insult what any of them have accomplished. While I regard Sampras and Borg (in the all-OE) as similar talents, each of The Big 3 have separated themselves achievements-wise for quite a while now.

Try to accept the present...life (even tennis life) goes on...and let's see what will be in the coming season(s).
GOOD POST! Though I am a Djokovic fan, I appreciate the great tennis of Roger and Rafa. I also appreciated Pete's great game as well.
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
The only pejorative term there is "mug". The rest is tennis analysis terms.

Seems like you are the one who need to deal with something and accept it, like the fact that the quality of tennis today is worse than it used to be. The "convincing" is what those who are trying to say that tennis is as exciting today need. Haven't met many of them though, if any.
Thanks for that valuable lesson.
It's Thanksgiving Day in the U.S., and I'm thankful for the continued tribalism and negativity.
 
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