Frankly, I feel bad for Medvedev

smalahove · Jan 28, 2024

King_ Zeglan12 said:
Medvedev significantly outplayed Sinner in the first two sets but at no point did I feel like Sinner was outplaying Medvedev except maybe in the fifth

Medvedev withered physically from the third and credit to Sinner for keeping a steady level but on equal terms Medvedev wins the match IMO

Equal terms? You mean maintaining a 86% first serves in, with a 84% win rate through 5 sets?

Medvedev relies on a) his serve and b) standing way behind the baseline, similar to Nadal, and using his legs and positioning to neutralize pace.
In a short match, he will be able to rely on this strategy, but in all extended matches the comparative advantage of his serve diminishes, and he is not able to defend from the back with the same precision and pace. This is where Sinner's technique plays in, as his ability to produce heavy TS from both wings, standing closer to the line starts to pay off.

There's a reason Medvedev's lost two finals against Nadal, both from a similar driving position.

smalahove · Jan 28, 2024

mike danny said:
I mean, it’s his own fault for playing 3 five setters and losing lots of sets overall.

The Z match I can understand. But not the Hurkacz, Borges and Ruusuu matches

He should have lost the Ruusuvuori match, and it was his resilience and tactical skills that pulled him through. Emil plays a similar style to Sinner, and Medvedev is vulnerable for that type of play for sure, as he is no Federer.

InsideOut900 · Jan 28, 2024

smalahove said:
Equal terms? You mean maintaining a 86% first serves in, with a 84% win rate through 5 sets?

Medvedev relies on a) his serve and b) standing way behind the baseline, similar to Nadal, and using his legs and positioning to neutralize pace.
In a short match, he will be able to rely on this strategy, but in all extended matches the comparative advantage of his serve diminishes, and he is not able to defend from the back with the same precision and pace. This is where Sinner's technique plays in, as his ability to produce heavy TS from both wings, standing closer to the line starts to pay off.

There's a reason Medvedev's lost two finals against Nadal, both from a similar driving position.

That's wrong on every single count.

Medvedev only served 50% in the 2nd set. He was playing anything but 2m behind baseline and he was the one dominating the baseline and coming forward and also Sinner didn't use heavy topspin to push him back, but beat him in blow-for-blow battles.

I think people forget Medvedev was 6-0 on Sinner back then. This is a Medvedev favored match-up style-wise, but the difference today was fully physical, that is why they weren't on equal terms.

Rovesciarete · Jan 28, 2024

smalahove said:
Equal terms? You mean maintaining a 86% first serves in, with a 84% win rate through 5 sets?

Medvedev relies on a) his serve and b) standing way behind the baseline, similar to Nadal, and using his legs and positioning to neutralize pace.
In a short match, he will be able to rely on this strategy, but in all extended matches the comparative advantage of his serve diminishes, and he is not able to defend from the back with the same precision and pace. This is where Sinner's technique plays in, as his ability to produce heavy TS from both wings, standing closer to the line starts to pay off.

There's a reason Medvedev's lost two finals against Nadal, both from a similar driving position.

Daniil rolled the dice as he should have and almost made it! Sinners level wasn't that low in the first two but that serve dominance really gave him path into the match.

Mainad · Jan 28, 2024

Like him or loathe him he certainly gives the best post-match interviews of anybody currently on tour!

thrust · Jan 28, 2024

SpinWizard said:
Same from me. I don't remember when was the last time i had so mixed feelings afer the final. On one hand Sinner deserved to win, played great whole tournament, beat Djokovic.

On the other hand Medvedev was clearly superior player once the match started. He was toying with Sinner for the first two sets. Also already had many tough, epic five setter coming to the final and he deserved this title as much as Sinner did. I just genuinely feel bad for Medvedev, another 2:0 lead in GS final that he lost... :/

As an American of Italian descent, I am thrilled that Sinner won even though he beat my favorite, Djokovic. Also, I never root for Russians to win ANYTHING!

thrust · Jan 28, 2024

3loudboys said:
Jannik was understandably tense in the opening of his first slam final

TRUE, which is normal.

smalahove · Jan 28, 2024

InsideOut900 said:
That's wrong on every single count.

Medvedev only served 50% in the 2nd set. He was playing anything but 2m behind baseline and he was the one dominating the baseline and coming forward and also Sinner didn't use heavy topspin to push him back, but beat him in blow-for-blow battles.

I think people forget Medvedev was 6-0 on Sinner back then. This is a Medvedev favored match-up style-wise, but the difference today was fully physical, that is why they weren't on equal terms.

It's not wrong, it's the stats from the first set. And reg first serve percentage of 50, you forget to mention his 86% win rate behind the first serve, and his 57% win rate behind the second. On the other end, Jannik was only making 65% of his first serves, only winning 50% of the first serves and 50% of the second serves (stats from the second set).

If you take a look Danil's serve stats, you'll see that they gradually deteriorate from set to set.

Jannik Sinner vs Daniil Medvedev - MS701 | AO

3loudboys · Jan 28, 2024

thrust said:
TRUE, which is normal.

His resolve and ability to compose himself after that setback demonstrates immense mental toughness.

InsideOut900 · Jan 28, 2024

smalahove said:
It's not wrong, it's the stats from the first set. And reg first serve percentage of 50, you forget to mention his 86% win rate behind the first serve, and his 57% win rate behind the second. On the other end, Jannik was only making 65% of his first serves, only winning 50% of the first serves and 50% of the second serves (stats from the second set).

If you take a look Danil's serve stats, you'll see that they gradually deteriorate from set to set.

Jannik Sinner vs Daniil Medvedev - MS701 | AO

Yeah, but the match wasn't only about the 1st set. Medvedev was up 5-1 in the 2nd without even serving well. That was purely from dominating the baseline.

nolefam_2024 · Jan 28, 2024

Any Nole fam feeling bad for Medvedev has lost the sense of things

This is the guy who stopped your favorite from CYGS before bending to Nadal to hand him another AO.

I say he doesn't deserve AO after that bending.

StrongRule · Jan 28, 2024

I also feel bad for him. He played such a strong final in USO 2019 (especially if we remember he wasn't even a top player at Wimbledon that year), everyone had big expectations of him after that. But his mentality in big matches only declined since then. Today was just too much.

Well, at least he won 1 slam final. Against Djokovic, by the way.

NeutralFan · Jan 28, 2024

StrongRule said:
I also feel bad for him. He played such a strong final in USO 2019 (especially if we remember he wasn't even a top player at Wimbledon that year), everyone had big expectations of him after that. But his mentality in big matches only declined since then. Today was just too much.

Well, at least he won 1 slam final. Against Djokovic, by the way.

Last year he folded like a cheap suit in uso final

Kralingen · Jan 28, 2024

I do have to give respect to Med for his serving in the 4th set. He finally found his best serve and weathered the storm despite being clearly 2nd best in long baseline rallies. Served out of a tree whenever he needed, even created a BP at 3-3. That was his moment, he had the match, but Sinner erased it smartly.

nolefam_2024 · Jan 28, 2024

Thiem always bended for Nadal in RG.

But this Medvddev did the opposite. Still nolefams feel bad for him. Very sad.

ActualTennisPlayer · Jan 28, 2024

Also the Nadal which Medvedev faced was beatable and med had his chances.
Djokovic at AO was unstoppable but Med could have made it more interesting at last US Open and Alcaraz showed that dkokovic is not invincible.
Then one slam he benefited from Djokovic going for the career grand slam and being fatigued after the tougher semis vs zverev

ActualTennisPlayer · Jan 28, 2024

nolefam_2024 said:
Thiem always bended for Nadal in RG.

But this Medvddev did the opposite. Still nolefams feel bad for him. Very sad.

Thiem was unlucky that he played Djokovic over various days and had no rest in the semis. Thiem could have made it very interesting in the final if it wasn’t for that. Thiem even says it.

StrongRule · Jan 28, 2024

ActualTennisPlayer said:
Thiem was unlucky that he played Djokovic over various days and had no rest in the semis. Thiem could have made it very interesting in the final if it wasn’t for that. Thiem even says it.

That's definitely an argument.

My uncle is a genius. He told me himself.

nolefam_2024 · Jan 28, 2024

ActualTennisPlayer said:
Thiem was unlucky that he played Djokovic over various days and had no rest in the semis. Thiem could have made it very interesting in the final if it wasn’t for that. Thiem even says it.

He may say it but his 0 masters in clay says differently. I think it's just another excuse from Thiem. Just look at his masters list. 1 title in whole career.

TennisFan3 · Jan 28, 2024

Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
That was a terrific final. I completely disagree with your analysis.

Medvedev deserved to win. If he has the legs, he would have won easily. It's cruel when the winner is decided by the fitness and luck of the draw. Meddy had a tough draw as well.

Fed881981 · Jan 28, 2024

I feel bad for Zverev. He basically had the SF on his racquet, and blew it.

King_ Zeglan12 · Jan 28, 2024

The post match conference today is different from the one in 2022

Medvedev doesn't look too affected by his loss and acknowledges the steady level of Sinner and also his own physical limit

Hope he plays like the first 2 sets regularly going forward and also hope to see him as the winner again in a few more slams

3loudboys · Jan 28, 2024

King_ Zeglan12 said:
The post match conference today is different from the one in 2022

Medvedev doesn't look too affected by his loss and acknowledges the steady level of Sinner and also his own physical limit

Hope he plays like the first 2 sets regularly going forward and also hope to see him as the winner again in a few more slams

Pleased he’s not to down on himself. He played 2 top sets and the take away from the loss was that he has an aggressive game from the base or at net if he chooses to use it. Which he should given it’s success at the start.

Spin Diesel · Jan 28, 2024

I do feel a bit bad for Medvedev.
But I found Sinner‘s performance pretty impressive. He was nervous at the beginning, which I can understand, being in your first slam final and then people even kind of expect you to win.
And then the russian played at a really high level, was very aggressive and still didn‘t miss much. It could have been easy to fold under these circumstances for Sinner but he managed to raise his level, didn‘t let himself down and played very focused. It wasn‘t like Medvedev was playing so badly all of a sudden, that it was easy to beat him. And to win 3 sets in a row against that in your first slam final after the worst possible start is something respectable in my book.

Also, he served for the match impressively, I didn‘t expect him to show as little nerves in that moment as he did! Like I heard from other pros - when you serve for your first slam, you just hope that your opponent makes an error. But Sinner stayed aggressive played some difficult rallies and took his chances.

MichaelNadal · Jan 28, 2024

Had to sleep after set 3. Yikes Danill

tennis is cruel af, he was playing like he had the damn elder wand those first 2 sets

ActualTennisPlayer · Jan 28, 2024

nolefam_2024 said:
He may say it but his 0 masters in clay says differently. I think it's just another excuse from Thiem. Just look at his masters list. 1 title in whole career.

2019-2020 thiem was different though. And he even said he prefers to have RG2019 back rather than AO2020 where he lost to Djokovic in 5.

nolefam_2024 · Jan 28, 2024

3loudboys said:
Pleased he’s not to down on himself. He played 2 top sets and the take away from the loss was that he has an aggressive game from the base or at net if he chooses to use it. Which he should given it’s success at the start.

That means he is not a pushbot.

@haters will not agree.

nolefam_2024 · Jan 28, 2024

ActualTennisPlayer said:
2019-2020 thiem was different though. And he even said he prefers to have RG2019 back rather than AO2020 where he lost to Djokovic in 5.

But he got double breadsticked. I don't know being fresh would immidietly change anything.

Djokovic_is_the_best#1 · Jan 28, 2024

MichaelNadal said:
Had to sleep after set 3. Yikes Danill tennis is cruel af, he was playing like he had the damn elder wand those first 2 sets

Never count out the Sinner!

smalahove · Jan 28, 2024

InsideOut900 said:
Yeah, but the match wasn't only about the 1st set. Medvedev was up 5-1 in the 2nd without even serving well. That was purely from dominating the baseline.

I rewatched the two first sets. From a neutral ball, Med was def not dominating from the baseline. He made few UEs and his CC running FH was going in.
He won those sets behind his first serve, whilst more often than not facing second serves from Sinner.

I'm not saying he didn't deserve those sets; I agree with Rovesciarate: "Daniil rolled the dice as he should have and almost made it!"

MichaelNadal · Jan 28, 2024

Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
Never count out the Sinner!

A fact well known to Agent Smith

pirhaksar · Jan 28, 2024

InsideOut900 said:
Through singing all the Sinner praises, people still don't realize we haven't really gained anywhere near as much as from this Slam as some would think regarding tennis moving forward.

At the end of the day, Sinner put down a miserable Djokovic that Zverev and Medvedev would have beaten just as easily. But push come to shove, Medvedev made him look like a junior for 2 sets.

There were really only 2 good outcomes out of this match, either Sinner crushes Medvedev in straights and tennis moves on to a newer playing standard or Medvedev just plays the match of his life and has his moment under the sun again.

And instead Medvedev faltered physically and Sinner upped his game from mediocre to alright and then to good in set 5 and could have still lost at the tail end of the 4th.

All we got was a new Slam winner that proved once again he cannot handle hot opponents and Medvedev got a heartbreaking loss where he literally left all he had on the court after a brutal SF with Zverev, who was a much tougher opponent.

Through all the animosities people may have toward Medvedev, the guy is already getting forgotten over the Sinner-Alcaraz new rise and his only fault was being the wrong guy at the wrong time since 2019 while actually being the 2nd best HC player of the last few years.

Med was the original king slayer, and deserves more respect than he gets. He arguably played the most important match of millions of peoples’ tennis and TTW lives..had he not stopped the evil Djoker from a CYGS the misery here would have been lmao worthy…well played Daniil tough luck but Sinner was not going to be denied, he was a wrecking ball, that match point FH blast made me go WTF!?

3loudboys · Jan 28, 2024

nolefam_2024 said:
That means he is not a pushbot.

@haters will not agree.

He was destructive in the first two sets … no pushing on show there. Surprised me tbh how aggressive he was… got more tools in the bag than many give him credit for.

duaneeo · Jan 28, 2024

I would've felt bad for men's tennis if a player who lost in straight sets to 34 year old Nole with a muscle tear and blew a 2-0 set lead to a rusty 35 year old Nadal had won the AO simply because neither oldie was in the final.

This outcome is affirmation that the 90s-born Top Gun simply isn't good in slam finals.

ibbi · Jan 28, 2024

It was a tough one. The 6th time of asking is the first time he gets a look in a major final against someone other than Nadal or Djokovic, and he had just played too much tennis in the first 6 matches to have enough left to compete at the end of this one. More sets played than anyone in the Open era, more hours on court than anyone in the open era, his 4th 5 setter of the tournament, his third in a row, and by the end he was still trying with everything he had, and after the 2022 final to have that happen to him again is just a heartbreaker.

Still, you can say he brought it on himself. He was too passive against Zverev till he was 2 sets down, and after he was SO brilliant in his aggression in the first set and a half or two today he just reverted too much to his defensive type to try and close it out, and Jannik made him pay. 142 to 141 points though, what can you say. It wasn't a particularly great match, but it was a hell of a fight with some crazy rallies.

MeatTornado · Jan 28, 2024

RF-18 said:
A 2nd slam would have kick started maybe something bigger for Med, but now I really don't know where he goes from here. It's like a killing blow losing another final like this.

I've given up on thinking like that now. One also would've thought his USO 21 title would kick start something bigger, but he immediately followed that up with the same type of AO disappointment that he had today. So even if he won today, I doubt it would've changed much going forward, positively or negatively.

mike danny · Jan 28, 2024

pirhaksar said:
Med was the original king slayer, and deserves more respect than he gets. He arguably played the most important match of millions of peoples’ tennis and TTW lives..had he not stopped the evil Djoker from a CYGS the misery here would have been lmao worthy…well played Daniil tough luck but Sinner was not going to be denied, he was a wrecking ball, that match point FH blast made me go WTF!?

Don't forget that Med started the CYGS quest to begin with.

jackson vile · Jan 28, 2024

Ouch!

InsideOut900 · Jan 28, 2024

mike danny said:
Don't forget that Med started the CYGS quest to begin with.

Beating a Novak playing like that in AO is above Medvedev anyway, so there is no point to this.

mike danny · Jan 28, 2024

InsideOut900 said:
Beating a Novak playing like that in AO is above Medvedev anyway, so there is no point to this.

But not even making it competitive when Novak was also carrying an injury?

ForumMember · Jan 28, 2024

nolefam_2024 said:
Thiem always bended for Nadal in RG.

But this Medvddev did the opposite. Still nolefams feel bad for him. Very sad.

Noone bends of Ndal at RG. Nadal makes everyone bend.

Djokovic_is_the_best#1 · Jan 28, 2024

mike danny said:
But not even making it competitive when Novak was also carrying an injury?

True and Meddy was on a high winning streak. It was similar to sinner end to 2023. I admit Meddy lay an egg that final.

DSH · Jan 28, 2024

Hamnavoe said:
I don't. Can't stand him. Thanks Sinner for taking out the thrash.The only good thing he ever did was stopping Djokovic from a farce Calendar Grand Slam.

The Russian octopus will always be in our hearts for such a gratifying divine action.

BeatlesFan · Jan 28, 2024

thrust said:
Also, I never root for Russians to win ANYTHING!

I do.

Krish872007 · Jan 28, 2024

InsideOut900 said:
The final was almost a copy of the USO 2020 final in a sense. First 2 sets, 1 player is great and the other subpar, next 2 sets, 1 player is good and the other mediocre. Sinner raised his level in the 5th, while Medvedev sank even lower, so they never had a stretch where both played well at the same time, hence why all sets had a clear winner.

I was almost on board until you brought up the US Open 2020 final - this match does not deserve to be compared to that monstrosity of a chokefest, where both players did their absolute best to donate the match. There was actually decent tennis played and some absolutely lung busting rallies

Sinner deservedly took this one home. Whilst I do feel a bit bad for Med this is entirely his own doing. Had he played that aggressive brand of tennis from the start of the tournament he wouldn't have set all these unwanted records of time on court, most sets lost, losing from 2-0 up twice in a Slam final

abmk · Jan 28, 2024

mike danny said:
But not even making it competitive when Novak was also carrying an injury?

novak injury only seriously affected him in taylor match. at worst lingering affects vs Rao/Z or precautions.
he looked 100% vs Karatsev and Med in AO 21.

Either way Med did lay an egg in that final.

Krish872007 · Jan 28, 2024

TennisFan3 said:
Medvedev deserved to win. If he has the legs, he would have won easily. It's cruel when the winner is decided by the fitness and luck of the draw. Meddy had a tough draw as well.

The winner was in reality decided by playing style and tactical prowess throughout the fortnight

Absolutely no excuse for Med dropping sets left right and centre until the QFs though. Ruusuvuori, Borges, Atmane? LOL
Hurkacz and Zverev were legitimately tough but even there he had opportunities to end them quicker had he not played so passive

I also wouldn't say Sinner had luck of the draw considering he was the one who had to go through Khachanov, Rublev and Djokovic.

a10best · Jan 28, 2024

It's a lot easier to play better in the semis than in the final. Nerves come in the final which leads to fatigue. They're so close to realizing their dream.
I still think Medvedev will get another slam and hopefully this year. He deserves it.

Rosstour · Jan 28, 2024

Med is an ill-behaved prat and I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers his dalliance with the underaged girl in NYC a few years back. He's "good for the game" I guess but he doesn't deserve any sympathy.

Mustard · Jan 28, 2024

I felt even more sorry for Dominic Thiem after the 2020 Australian Open. Thiem was flat for the fourth and fifth sets, as the title agonizingly slipped from his grasp.

Frankly, I feel bad for Medvedev

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