What really is the situation for Federer in Cincinnati

Mr. Anderson · Jul 28, 2008

I read in the news today that should Federer not reach the Final in Cincinnati right now, he will lose the ranking; does this mean that even if Nadal loses his first match and let's say Federer loses in semi's he loses the ranking? Or is all this supposing nadal reaches the final too?

VGP · Jul 28, 2008

Nadal needs to win the tournament and Federer has to lose before the semifinals....

mjane777 · Jul 28, 2008

if Nadal lose secound round (bye at first), 35 points, Fed has to reach final, 350 points

soyizgood · Jul 28, 2008

Anything that total up to a 305pt advantage for Nadal earns Nadal #1.

Ex: Nadal makes the final = 495 pts if he win, 345 pts if he loses
Fed loses in round 2 = 495 pt loss for Federer

Nadal_Freak · Jul 28, 2008

Olympics and Cincinnati will be decisive on who gets number 1.

Nadal-GOAT · Jul 28, 2008

It doesn't matter when Nadal becomes #1 today, tomorrow, next week, etc. Once he becomes #1, he is going to stay there and break all records.

fastdunn · Jul 28, 2008

I am almost 100% sure Nadal's priority is US Open and Olympic. Definitely not winning Cincinatti and taking over no 1.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nadal loses early at Cincinatti.

Nadal_Monfils · Jul 28, 2008

When do last year's Toronto points come off? Nadal would probably take the #1 spot then, right?

miyagi · Jul 28, 2008

fastdunn said:
I am almost 100% sure Nadal's priority is US Open and Olympic. Definitely not winning Cincinatti and taking over no 1.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nadal loses early at Cincinatti.

I would like to see Nadal go one or two rounds further in Cinci to close the gap then loose so he can get some rest for the olympics and USO....

But I think he might need to try to go deep in Cinci to get used to the faster harder courts....

Satch · Jul 28, 2008

Nadal-GOAT said:
It doesn't matter when Nadal becomes #1 today, tomorrow, next week, etc. Once he becomes #1, he is going to stay there and break all records.

actually i think that Fed and Nad will be shifting between #1 and 2 at least a couple of times...

P_Agony · Jul 28, 2008

fastdunn said:
I am almost 100% sure Nadal's priority is US Open and Olympic. Definitely not winning Cincinatti and taking over no 1.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nadal loses early at Cincinatti.

I really hope Nadal losses early and Federer wins. it can really give him some confidence going to the Olympics and the US Open. However, with the way Nadal's been playing lately, it seems as if nobody can beat him. The only one who had a chance is Djokovic, but like Federer, he didn't play very well in Toronto.

daddy · Jul 28, 2008

I am not sure anyone answered this correctly. Because of the schedule this year, points that Nadal and Federer earned in Rogers cup and Cincinati last year are not going to be deducted until the 13th of August. Because of this the situation right now is that Federer has 6605 pts instead of 6255 he should have if last year Rogers cup is deducted. Rafael should have 6080 so the REAL difference is not 300 pts, it is 275 pts.

Long story short, Roger needs to win cincinati and hope rafa does not gather 275 points he needs. Otherwise if Roger does not win he will be 2nd by the 13th of August 100%. Example - he loses in semi final - he will lose enough points to slip to nr2 in rankings, even if nadal loses in his first match in 2nd round.

montx · Jul 28, 2008

There are probably many variables in this equation or one. But If many variables account on this these are my thoughts -

1) Federers playing form - he is not on form. Unforced errors are high. His backhand is unreliable and not a weapon it was. His versatility and flexibility to continue making changes to his game is not evident enough.

2) Federer's Morale and state of mind - We are obviously seeing a rattled Federer, he's lost his focus and his unforced errors in the games he plays are very high. His serve is no longer key because he is living high in doubt. Doubting himself is also something the media and other players are trying to push him to accept. They want him out of the way. His character seems one of assertiveness which in my opinion is good. It may be one thing that might pull the tide back his way if he can block out the noises from the outside and the doubts on the inside. I think the doubts on the inside carry the greater weight and that is obviously introduced from the outside.

3) The performance of the other players - while Fed is taking a beating in terms of his tennis, other players have the limelight off themselves and are allowed to play with less stress. The stress afforded to Federer may yet again point him out to be yet a diamond to be mined and someone who might sparkle through all of this or more likely it may expose all the weakness of him and he may buckle under the pressure. It is certainly a distraction to have so much to deal with and I imagine its too hard to just be simple and roll with it.

4) Federers Age - There is one thing still on Federer's side, which is not afforded others. He is still young and can make it through this patch.

5) Betters - Would I bet on Fed to win? No. Do I want him to win? Yes. So I don't bet. Tennis is a game where there is no draw. You either win or lose and its much like life though life does afford people a draw now and again.

I hope my opinion is a valuable one and not offend anyones viewpoints. Its just something to throw out their and to consider. I am a die hard Fed fan, I'm glad to have a passion about someone's tennis career and I have delighted in the roller coaster he has been going through and I hope he can go out on top on his terms and not those of everyone gunning him down. If he goes out the loser, I still vouch for him as the Best from the little I have seen.

Nadal_Freak · Jul 28, 2008

It's pathetic that some are rooting for Fed to hold the number 1 position despite we all know he doesn't deserve it. It would be a crime if that Nadal doesn't get the number 1 spot. The rankings shouldn't matter and Nadal should pace himself.

daddy · Jul 28, 2008

montx said:
There are probably many variables in this equation or one. But If many variables account on this these are my thoughts -

1) Federers playing form - he is not on form. Unforced errors are high. His backhand is unreliable and not a weapon it was. His versatility and flexibility to continue making changes to his game is not evident enough.

2) Federer's Morale and state of mind - We are obviously seeing a rattled Federer, he's lost his focus and his unforced errors in the games he plays are very high. His serve is no longer key because he is living high in doubt. Doubting himself is also something the media and other players are trying to push him to accept. They want him out of the way. His character seems one of assertiveness which in my opinion is good. It may be one thing that might pull the tide back his way if he can block out the noises from the outside and the doubts on the inside. I think the doubts on the inside carry the greater weight and that is obviously introduced from the outside.

3) The performance of the other players - while Fed is taking a beating in terms of his tennis, other players have the limelight off themselves and are allowed to play with less stress. The stress afforded to Federer may yet again point him out to be yet a diamond to be mined and someone who might sparkle through all of this or more likely it may expose all the weakness of him and he may buckle under the pressure. It is certainly a distraction to have so much to deal with and I imagine its too hard to just be simple and roll with it.

4) Federers Age - There is one thing still on Federer's side, which is not afforded others. He is still young and can make it through this patch.

5) Betters - Would I bet on Fed to win? No. Do I want him to win? Yes. So I don't bet. Tennis is a game where there is no draw. You either win or lose and its much like life though life does afford people a draw now and again.

I hope my opinion is a valuable one and not offend anyones viewpoints. Its just something to throw out their and to consider. I am a die hard Fed fan, I'm glad to have a passion about someone's tennis career and I have delighted in the roller coaster he has been going through and I hope he can go out on top on his terms and not those of everyone gunning him down. If he goes out the loser, I still vouch for him as the Best from the little I have seen.

Good contribution from pretty much all the important angles. thanks for the analysis, I was going for raw numbers in my post above yours, you added this so we completed the prologue.

TheTruth · Jul 28, 2008

montx said:
There are probably many variables in this equation or one. But If many variables account on this these are my thoughts -

1) Federers playing form - he is not on form. Unforced errors are high. His backhand is unreliable and not a weapon it was. His versatility and flexibility to continue making changes to his game is not evident enough.

2) Federer's Morale and state of mind - We are obviously seeing a rattled Federer, he's lost his focus and his unforced errors in the games he plays are very high. His serve is no longer key because he is living high in doubt. Doubting himself is also something the media and other players are trying to push him to accept. They want him out of the way. His character seems one of assertiveness which in my opinion is good. It may be one thing that might pull the tide back his way if he can block out the noises from the outside and the doubts on the inside. I think the doubts on the inside carry the greater weight and that is obviously introduced from the outside.

3) The performance of the other players - while Fed is taking a beating in terms of his tennis, other players have the limelight off themselves and are allowed to play with less stress. The stress afforded to Federer may yet again point him out to be yet a diamond to be mined and someone who might sparkle through all of this or more likely it may expose all the weakness of him and he may buckle under the pressure. It is certainly a distraction to have so much to deal with and I imagine its too hard to just be simple and roll with it.

4) Federers Age - There is one thing still on Federer's side, which is not afforded others. He is still young and can make it through this patch.

5) Betters - Would I bet on Fed to win? No. Do I want him to win? Yes. So I don't bet. Tennis is a game where there is no draw. You either win or lose and its much like life though life does afford people a draw now and again.

I hope my opinion is a valuable one and not offend anyones viewpoints. Its just something to throw out their and to consider. I am a die hard Fed fan, I'm glad to have a passion about someone's tennis career and I have delighted in the roller coaster he has been going through and I hope he can go out on top on his terms and not those of everyone gunning him down. If he goes out the loser, I still vouch for him as the Best from the little I have seen.

Very enjoyable post!

fastdunn · Jul 28, 2008

Federer is not old. But not exactly young at less than a month shy of 27.

Looking at the current top 10. He is on the older side, 3rd oldest after Blake, Davydenko. 3 players just 1 year younger than him and 4 players between age of 21-23. And this top 10 list could get a lot yournger by the end of this year, I think.

IMHO, the current game, power baselining is young man's game. Federer will face even tougher challenges once top 10-20 are filled with players who are a few years younger than him.

Cup8489 · Jul 28, 2008

honestly, i want federer to hold the ranking. i mean, 234 weeks at no 1 is phenomenal, but i want him to make it longer..

but at the same time, nadal deserves it, completely. no one has ever had to work this hard just to be number 1 in the world. it used to be that if you won two grandslams in the same year, you automatically would be considered number 1. i mean, he's having to win two masters series titles right after wimbledon, or else olympics/us open.

but he deserves it.

tenis · Jul 28, 2008

Actually, Federers game start to go south last year before Indian Wells. A day before this tournament, he practised at Petes home in LA and than went to desert and...lost to Canas (I gues). To much celebrity living, playing show matches w. Pete (leave that when you'll retire!)and samehow he forgot, the other ATP guys are getting better and catching up (a few losses to lower players). Change of coaches, sometime no coach...And it was getting worse and worse, than the mono. These days he has no sparks on his mental and physical part, sad to watch him now.
But, he is still my favorite!!!!!

Mr. Anderson · Jul 28, 2008

mjane777 said:
if Nadal lose secound round (bye at first), 35 points, Fed has to reach final, 350 points

Jeez, Federer truly is in a pickle right now lol, but maybe this ranking maintaining thing doesn't matter too much for him, as I recall I read an article when he won AO '06 in which he said that tennis was his 4th favorite sport, and that he didn't care one way or another if he was or wasn't #1, but maybe he doesn't think like that now, because back then he wasn't in danger of being replaced.

Nadal_Freak said:
It's pathetic that some are rooting for Fed to hold the number 1 position despite we all know he doesn't deserve it. It would be a crime if that Nadal doesn't get the number 1 spot. The rankings shouldn't matter and Nadal should pace himself.

The hell? Doesn't deserve it!? How can you say that, there is no crime here, tennis rankings have always been merit-based, not like other sports where they vote for the best players, so everyone stands where they are justly because of all the effort they put in achieving what they achieved

mickee10 · Jul 28, 2008

montx said:
There are probably many variables in this equation or one. But If many variables account on this these are my thoughts -

1) Federers playing form - he is not on form. Unforced errors are high. His backhand is unreliable and not a weapon it was. His versatility and flexibility to continue making changes to his game is not evident enough.

2) Federer's Morale and state of mind - We are obviously seeing a rattled Federer, he's lost his focus and his unforced errors in the games he plays are very high. His serve is no longer key because he is living high in doubt. Doubting himself is also something the media and other players are trying to push him to accept. They want him out of the way. His character seems one of assertiveness which in my opinion is good. It may be one thing that might pull the tide back his way if he can block out the noises from the outside and the doubts on the inside. I think the doubts on the inside carry the greater weight and that is obviously introduced from the outside.

3) The performance of the other players - while Fed is taking a beating in terms of his tennis, other players have the limelight off themselves and are allowed to play with less stress. The stress afforded to Federer may yet again point him out to be yet a diamond to be mined and someone who might sparkle through all of this or more likely it may expose all the weakness of him and he may buckle under the pressure. It is certainly a distraction to have so much to deal with and I imagine its too hard to just be simple and roll with it.

4) Federers Age - There is one thing still on Federer's side, which is not afforded others. He is still young and can make it through this patch.

5) Betters - Would I bet on Fed to win? No. Do I want him to win? Yes. So I don't bet. Tennis is a game where there is no draw. You either win or lose and its much like life though life does afford people a draw now and again.

I hope my opinion is a valuable one and not offend anyones viewpoints. Its just something to throw out their and to consider. I am a die hard Fed fan, I'm glad to have a passion about someone's tennis career and I have delighted in the roller coaster he has been going through and I hope he can go out on top on his terms and not those of everyone gunning him down. If he goes out the loser, I still vouch for him as the Best from the little I have seen.

Excellent post. One thing I've noticed from Federer fans is that their remarks are largely insightful and intelligent, a reflection of the player they support.

Just a small point to rehash is that he does have EBV. It's possible he still could be symptomatic. His immune system might have been compromised by both the physical and mental stress prolonging his recovery period. His whole uncharacteristic season, including any self doubts from the various sources you mentioned may have started with this virus.

If Federer were ever to consider PED's of any type now would be the time for mood enhancing drugs such as beta blockers. I think it's a real testament to the sportsmanlike qualities he has displayed throughout his career that he obviously hasn't taken this route.

I expect he will go to the number two spot shortly which will enable him to relax more and play better down the road. I should say EVEN better...

Nadal_Freak · Jul 28, 2008

Mr. Anderson said:
Jeez, Federer truly is in a pickle right now lol, but maybe this ranking maintaining thing doesn't matter too much for him, as I recall I read an article when he won AO '06 in which he said that tennis was his 4th favorite sport, and that he didn't care one way or another if he was or wasn't #1, but maybe he doesn't think like that now, because back then he wasn't in danger of being replaced.

The hell? Doesn't deserve it!? How can you say that, there is no crime here, tennis rankings have always been merit-based, not like other sports where they vote for the best players, so everyone stands where they are justly because of all the effort they put in achieving what they achieved

Nadal won both French Open and Wimbledon. Add Hamburg and Toronto to it and no way Fed should be in the lead. Fed has won 2 small tournaments. Ridiculous he is still in the lead. You all are looking like fools saying he deserves his ranking. The points totals he's gotten for not winning is too high.

SirBlend12 · Jul 28, 2008

Nadal_Freak said:
It's pathetic that some are rooting for Fed to hold the number 1 position despite we all know he doesn't deserve it. It would be a crime if that Nadal doesn't get the number 1 spot. The rankings shouldn't matter and Nadal should pace himself.

Two bad Slam finals doesn't merit saying he isn't deserving of his rank. He earned it and held it for almost 5 years.

Don't get me wrong, I think Rafa is an incredible player who has bent over backwards to be the best, but so has Federer.

As for deserving, I would be hard pressed to find another professional athlete that was more gracious, tactful and gentlemanly than Roger.

Nadal_Freak · Jul 28, 2008

SirBlend12 said:
Two bad Slam finals doesn't merit saying he isn't deserving of his rank. He earned it and held it for almost 5 years.

Don't get me wrong, I think Rafa is an incredible player who has bent over backwards to be the best, but so has Federer.

As for deserving, I would be hard pressed to find another professional athlete that was more gracious, tactful and gentlemanly than Roger.

He is deserving of being number 2. Not number 1. It's a flawed system that rewards too many points for coming in second.

bangchu · Jul 28, 2008

Nadal_Freak said:
He is deserving of being number 2. Not number 1. It's a flawed system that rewards too many points for coming in second.

More like Nadal fans keep complaining. If Nadal/Federer situation reversed, none of this nonsense would had come up. When Nadal loses his future number 1 ranking, some of these chumps would still come up with idiotic whines.

Nadal_Freak · Jul 28, 2008

bangchu said:
More like Nadal fans keep complaining. If Nadal/Federer situation reversed, none of this nonsense would had come up. When Nadal loses his future number 1 ranking, some of these chumps would still come up with idiotic whines.

If Nadal kept losing to Fed, I would gladly accept that he is number 2. That is not what is happening though. Nadal has been beating Fed everywhere and yet the flawed ranking system continues to show Fed number 1. We all know who the true number 1 is right now.

mickee10 · Jul 28, 2008

Nadal_Freak said:
Nadal won both French Open and Wimbledon. Add Hamburg and Toronto to it and no way Fed should be in the lead. Fed has won 2 small tournaments. Ridiculous he is still in the lead. You all are looking like fools saying he deserves his ranking. The points totals he's gotten for not winning is too high.

Is the blog-rage? Do you own shares in Nadal? Perhaps you'd like to be part of his permanent wedgie.

Nadal_Freak · Jul 28, 2008

mickee10 said:
Is the blog-rage? Do you own shares in Nadal? Perhaps you'd like to be part of his permanent wedgie.

No. I just want Nadal to get what is deserved as well as many other fans of him want. People still use this "he was never number 1" comment all the time in their arguments. It is annoying.

DarthMaul · Jul 28, 2008

Nadal-GOAT said:
It doesn't matter when Nadal becomes #1 today, tomorrow, next week, etc. Once he becomes #1, he is going to stay there and break all records.

This is not going to happen. Injuries will hit him sooner or later. He's not moving as naturally as Federer does.

DarthMaul · Jul 28, 2008

Nadal_Freak said:
He is deserving of being number 2. Not number 1. It's a flawed system that rewards too many points for coming in second.

How easy for someone to erase five years of great work. The ranking system is fine.

Nadal_Freak · Jul 28, 2008

DarthMaul said:
This is what I am hoping will happen. Injuries will hit him sooner or later. He's not moving as naturally as Federer does.

Fixed. I don't talk about Fed getting injured but I believe he has a tender shoulder. I saw him bothered during and after that match with Nadal at wimbledon. I'm not going to say it will cut his career short though as injuries heal. At least 99% of them do.

DarthMaul · Jul 28, 2008

Nadal_Freak said:
Fixed. I don't talk about Fed getting injured but I believe he has a tender shoulder. I saw him bothered during and after that match with Nadal at wimbledon. I'm not going to say it will cut his career short though as injuries heal. At least 99% of them do.

Altering quoted text is not a nice thing to do.

Mr. Anderson · Jul 28, 2008

Nadal_Freak said:
Nadal won both French Open and Wimbledon. Add Hamburg and Toronto to it and no way Fed should be in the lead. Fed has won 2 small tournaments. Ridiculous he is still in the lead. You all are looking like fools saying he deserves his ranking. The points totals he's gotten for not winning is too high.

Nadal_Freak said:
He is deserving of being number 2. Not number 1. It's a flawed system that rewards too many points for coming in second.

Nadal_Freak said:
If Nadal kept losing to Fed, I would gladly accept that he is number 2. That is not what is happening though. Nadal has been beating Fed everywhere and yet the flawed ranking system continues to show Fed number 1. We all know who the true number 1 is right now.

What are you moaning about you nadal fan moron? Federer won 3 Grand Slams last year, Nadal 1. Federer reached all 4 Grand Slam finals the past 2 years 2006-2007, winning 3 GS each year, nadal both years only reached 2 GS finals, 4 total, compared to Federer's 8. Federer won the year end Masters Cup wrecking your nadal in the semis, so how dare you claim that nadal should be #1 by now and that it is a flawed system? Did he do all that which Federer did the last 2 years? Not even close. So just shup up and stop saying stupid crap which doesn't make sense, you're just hurt and jealous because your nadal hasn't been able and will not be able to pass Federer, so HAHAHA. Suck failure

Nadal_Freak · Jul 29, 2008

Mr. Anderson said:
What are you moaning about you nadal fan moron? Federer won 3 Grand Slams last year, Nadal 1. Federer reached all 4 Grand Slam finals the past 2 years 2006-2007, winning 3 GS each year, nadal both years only reached 2 GS finals, 4 total, compared to Federer's 8. Federer won the year end Masters Cup wrecking your nadal in the semis, so how dare you claim that nadal should be #1 by now and that it is a flawed system? Did he do all that which Federer did the last 2 years? Not even close. So just shup up and stop saying stupid crap which doesn't make sense, you're just hurt and jealous because your nadal hasn't been able and will not be able to pass Federer, so HAHAHA. Suck failure

If this was about who was the better player last year, Fed was clearly it. Right now, Nadal is the best player. I don't see how anyone can argue that since Fed hasn't surpassed Nadal in any tournaments in a long time.

Mr. Anderson · Jul 29, 2008

Nadal_Freak said:
Nadal won both French Open and Wimbledon. Add Hamburg and Toronto to it and no way Fed should be in the lead. Fed has won 2 small tournaments. Ridiculous he is still in the lead. You all are looking like fools saying he deserves his ranking. The points totals he's gotten for not winning is too high.

Federer has been dominant the last 4 years and now that this year he hasn't he's in the verge of losing the spot, so even that proves you wrong you idiot, the system gives to each one as he rightfully deserves, no more no less

Mr. Anderson · Jul 29, 2008

Mr. Anderson said:
Federer has been dominant the last 4 years and now that this year he hasn't he's in the verge of losing the spot, so even that proves you wrong you idiot, the system gives to each one as he rightfully deserves, no more no less

Wow go learn about the ranking points distribution buddy, if you knew anything about it you wouldn't be saying such idioticies

Mr. Anderson · Jul 29, 2008

Nadal_Freak said:
If this was about who was the better player last year, Fed was clearly it. Right now, Nadal is the best player. I don't see how anyone can argue that since Fed hasn't surpassed Nadal in any tournaments in a long time.

Yes nadal is the best player of the year so far, but because Federer did so well last year he still hasn't been able to pass him, just so you get an idea of what Federer has done and how good he is

Nadal_Freak · Jul 29, 2008

Mr. Anderson said:
Yes nadal is the best player of the year so far, but because Federer did so well last year he still hasn't been able to pass him, just so you get an idea of what Federer has done and how good he is

All Fed has from last year on the record is Cincinnati, US Open, and MC. The rest of the points are already wiped out. So based on this, Nadal should be number 1 but like I said. Too many consolation points.
Nadal's 52 week Titles to this points
2 Slams, 3 MS, and 2 small tournaments
Fed's 52 Week Titles to this point
1 Slam, 1MC, 1MS, and 2 small tournaments. Which looks more impressive?

Mr. Anderson · Jul 29, 2008

Nadal_Freak said:
All Fed has from last year on the record is Cincinnati, US Open, and MC. The rest of the points are already wiped out. So based on this, Nadal should be number 1 but like I said. Too many consolation points.
Nadal's 52 week Titles to this points
2 Slams, 3 MS, and 2 small tournaments
Fed's 52 Week Titles to this point
1 Slam, 1MC, 1MS, and 2 small tournaments. Which looks more impressive?

This is why I told you that now Nadal is on the verge of passing him, so let's leave it at that.

Clydey2times · Jul 29, 2008

Nadal_Freak said:
If this was about who was the better player last year, Fed was clearly it. Right now, Nadal is the best player. I don't see how anyone can argue that since Fed hasn't surpassed Nadal in any tournaments in a long time.

Only an idiot would think that Federer is deserving of the current number 1 ranking. There's little point in arguing with these people. The fact that they are bringing up what Federer has done in the past 5 years sums up how weak their argument is.

Rankings are not based on how much a player has achieved over a period of 5 years, 3 years, 2 years etc. Rafael Nadal has been far and away the best player on the planet this year. Federer hasn't even won a MS event this season, nevermind a GS. Nadal has been winning both MS and GS events, yet some people think Federer is worthy of the number 1 ranking? I can't even begin to tell you how absurd that is.

lonestar · Jul 29, 2008

Clydey2times said:
Only an idiot would think that Federer is deserving of the current number 1 ranking. There's little point in arguing with these people. The fact that they are bringing up what Federer has done in the past 5 years sums up how weak their argument is.

Rankings are not based on how much a player has achieved over a period of 5 years, 3 years, 2 years etc. Rafael Nadal has been far and away the best player on the planet this year. Federer hasn't even won a MS event this season, nevermind a GS. Nadal has been winning both MS and GS events, yet some people think Federer is worthy of the number 1 ranking? I can't even begin to tell you how absurd that is.

That's why there is a ranking and a race. Rafa is far ahead of the pack in the race, that's why he will get to the number 1 position sooner or later, unless Federer will have an incredible second half of the year and Nadal starts to slip tremendously. Is that so hard to understand?

The ranking and race system is fair, because it's the same for every player.

Clydey2times · Jul 29, 2008

lonestar said:
That's why there is a ranking and a race. Rafa is far ahead of the pack in the race, that's why he will get to the number 1 position sooner or later, unless Federer will have an incredible second half of the year and Nadal starts to slip tremendously. Is that so hard to understand?

The ranking and race system is fair, because it's the same for every player.

Federer hasn't won anything of note since Shanghai. He has won nothing for 3/4 of a season, yet is still the best player in the world apparently. Rafa has been dominating, yet is considered the second best player in the world. That, to me, indicates a flaw in the rankings.

I know how they work and in theory it sounds perfect. However, Rafa still being at number 2 after utterly dominating and consistently beating Federer in major finals makes a mockery of the rankings. It isn't right. Sure, he'll get the number 1 spot soon enough. My point is that Federer has no business being at number 1 just now. And this is coming from a neutral.

People seem to think the system is infallible. It's not. It is likely the best system there is, but in a situation such as this it is made to look very silly.

Tarsier · Jul 29, 2008

lonestar said:
That's why there is a ranking and a race. Rafa is far ahead of the pack in the race, that's why he will get to the number 1 position sooner or later, unless Federer will have an incredible second half of the year and Nadal starts to slip tremendously. Is that so hard to understand?

The ranking and race system is fair, because it's the same for every player.

Finally someone said that. Strange that so many TW members are unaware of this system and waste their time on arguing who deserves what when it's all already said and done - the ATP race defines who's the #1 player of the current year while the ATP rankings are based on the last 52 weeks overall performance. So far Rafa's #1 player of this year and he's bound to be #1 in the rankings unless he totally f***s up later in the season.

Clydey2times · Jul 29, 2008

Tarsier said:
Finally someone said that. Strange that so many TW members are unaware of this system and waste their time on arguing who deserves what when it's all already said and done - the ATP race defines who's the #1 player of the current year while the ATP rankings are based on the last 52 weeks overall performance. So far Rafa's #1 player of this year and he's bound to be #1 in the rankings unless he totally f***s up later in the season.

I know how the rankings work. I just think it defies all logic that Federer has more points, since he hasn't won anything for 3/4 of a season.

lonestar · Jul 29, 2008

Clydey2times said:
I know how the rankings work. I just think it defies all logic that Federer has more points, since he hasn't won anything for 3/4 of a season.

No, you obviously don't know how the rankings work. Last year from this day on till the end of the year, Federer has won Cincy, the US Open, Basel and The Masters Final, and has made it to the finals of Madrid. That's a lot of ranking points. In the same period, Nadal hasn't made a big impact on any tournament. That's why he has to defend very little ranking points and therefore has a big chance to become # 1 in the rankings.

So again, the ATP race defines who's the #1 player of the current year while the ATP rankings are based on the last 52 weeks overall performance.

Tarsier · Jul 29, 2008

Clydey2times said:
I know how the rankings work. I just think it defies all logic that Federer has more points, since he hasn't won anything for 3/4 of a season.

But he was close to the winner (I mean he was in the finals), wasn't he? Add to that the points he accumulated at the end of the last season and that's why he's still there... I know it looks unfair but just take it as Rafa's ill fate. This karma is even more awful if you compare Rafa's achievements (even when he was far behind Fed in the points) to other players who had a chance to go down in history as world's #ones - JC Ferrero, Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, etc... The player with 5 GS still has to wait for his turn to be called the one - God must be angry at Rafa for some reason...:???:

Nadal_Freak · Jul 29, 2008

lonestar said:
No, you obviously don't know how the rankings work. Last year from this day on till the end of the year, Federer has won Cincy, the US Open, Basel and The Masters Final, and has made it to the finals of Madrid. That's a lot of ranking points. In the same period, Nadal hasn't made a big impact on any tournament. That's why he has to defend very little ranking points and therefore has a big chance to become # 1 in the rankings.

So again, the ATP race defines who's the #1 player of the current year while the ATP rankings are based on the last 52 weeks overall performance.

Nadal made it to Paris Final and Shanghai Semifinals. So Nadal did make an impact. I still think the point totals for just reaching the final and not winning is too high. Either cut down the consolation points or increase the winner points.

Rhino · Jul 29, 2008

Nadal_Freak said:
It's pathetic that some are rooting for Fed to hold the number 1 position despite we all know he doesn't deserve it. It would be a crime if that Nadal doesn't get the number 1 spot. The rankings shouldn't matter and Nadal should pace himself.

It's not pathetic. A fan of any player will always root for them to do well, and in fact you have done the same thing for years rooting for Nadal to be #1 before he deserved it. The rankings are a good system and the players including Nadal, are happy with how fair they are. If you want the rankings to represent a shorter time period then look to the race points. Nadal would not want the system to be twisted around so that he can get the ranking, he wants to earn it by having the best results over a one year period, the same way all the greats have done throughout history.

Clydey2times · Jul 29, 2008

lonestar said:
No, you obviously don't know how the rankings work. Last year from this day on till the end of the year, Federer has won Cincy, the US Open, Basel and The Masters Final, and has made it to the finals of Madrid. That's a lot of ranking points. In the same period, Nadal hasn't made a big impact on any tournament. That's why he has to defend very little ranking points and therefore has a big chance to become # 1 in the rankings.

So again, the ATP race defines who's the #1 player of the current year while the ATP rankings are based on the last 52 weeks overall performance.

I do know how it works. I just think it's flawed. You needn't keep explaining it to me, since I'm familiar with how it all works.

Up until recently, I thought the system was fine. Yes, Federer has been consistently going deep and getting to finals. However, he hasn't won anything of note for 3/4 of a season. That is not befitting of a world number 1.

Tarsier · Jul 29, 2008

Clydey2times said:
I do know how it works. I just think it's flawed. You needn't keep explaining it to me, since I'm familiar with how it all works.

Up until recently, I thought the system was fine. Yes, Federer has been consistently going deep and getting to finals. However, he hasn't won anything of note for 3/4 of a season. That is not befitting of a world number 1.

He's gonna pay for it. Just be patient.

What really is the situation for Federer in Cincinnati

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