Federer "gamesmanship" and Nadal gamesmanship+cheating were not the same.

AM95

AM95

Hall of Fame
Why?

Because.

Federer's "gamesmanship" did not involve faking two injuries.

Federer's "gamesmanship" was simply going to the bathroom. He took a long time, yes. But this disrupted his own already poor rhythm, and in-fact, he was broken in his second service game.

The reason Federer won his match at the AO was because of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh2KD5EOU7I&feature=related#t=9m50s

its already linked for your conveniece.

That backhand miss was the turning point in the match. Cahill and Gilbert both spoke about it ( i will try to find this)

_________________________________________________________________

Lets talk about Nadal and his gamesmanship and cheating:

Nadal called out the trainer at around 5-4 in the third set complaining of pain in his bicep/forearm. Ok, perfectly acceptable. The trainer is waived off because treatment will begin after the end of the set. Ok, that seems fair, doesnt want to distrupt the rhythm of the match.

Nadal calls trainer out at 2-1 with PP serving. This time the "injury" is in his knees. Ok...so which one is it. There is no treatment for the forearm injury and only the knees are treated.

Later we find out later that during the MTO, Nadal is given a silent warning that he needs to stop being coached. Nadal complains and tells his box to stfu.

After the MTO, Nadal breezes through the set and PP can barely get a first serve in

Fifth set, Nadal gets a code violation for illegal on court coaching.

So what do we see from this match. Gamesmanship is ok. Players should be able to overcome it. If Federer did commit gamesmanship, Davy overcame it and broke him but later choked.

Nadal's gamesmanship is fine too, although i dont like it because he does it in every match (fist pump UE, taking extra time between changeovers, serves). However, Nadal literally cheated today. He was caught red-handed and i want nadal-****s, like CMM and babbbete to admit it.
 
L

LeoR

Banned
Do you want a kleenex or something?

Classless thread I find. You are excusing someone who has admitted taking a time out for his own advantage and accusing someone who pulls out of the Davis Cup because he is concerned with his knees.
 
C

CMM

Legend
AM95 said:
Nadal literally cheated today. He was caught red-handed and i want nadal-****s, like CMM and babbbete to admit it.
Click to expand...

boomcrop.jpg


Meh.
 
AM95

AM95

Hall of Fame
LeoR said:
Do you want a kleenex or something?

Classless thread I find. You are excusing someone who has admitted taking a time out for his own advantage and accusing someone who pulls out of the Davis Cup because he is concerned with his knees.
Click to expand...

where has nadal admited this?

only thing i found was this

The German questioned Nadal's injury breaks.
"You have to ask him what it was. But I didn't feel any difference afterwards or before. I thought he was moving great. I only could say if I would be injured like this once I would be happy. I don't know. Maybe he had something. Maybe it was just a clever part to take a time-out there."

Nadal denied any gamesmanship.
"I never call the physio when I don't have nothing, not one time in my career," he said. "If I call the physio today, it was because it was bothering me a lot, the knee."
Click to expand...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i0099BjC_GidfbnjmjMFDXAq0FiwD9GJ6GG80

oh so rafa tell me about the bicep issue that you had?
 
babbette

babbette

Legend
Man you people are idiots! You've discussed this at lenght in the results section all day now you make your threads in this sections as if your views are facts and you discuss it further at lenght. It is not that freaking serious and seriously I can't imagine anything worst then spending all night here and this discussing what was already said by the same posters in the results section. :roll:
 
D

Deleted member 3771

Guest
AM95 said:
Why?

Because.

Federer's "gamesmanship" did not involve faking two injuries.

Federer's "gamesmanship" was simply going to the bathroom. He took a long time, yes. But this disrupted his own already poor rhythm, and in-fact, he was broken in his second service game.

The reason Federer won his match at the AO was because of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh2KD5EOU7I&feature=related#t=9m50s

its already linked for your conveniece.

That backhand miss was the turning point in the match. Cahill and Gilbert both spoke about it ( i will try to find this)

_________________________________________________________________

Lets talk about Nadal and his gamesmanship and cheating:

Nadal called out the trainer at around 5-4 in the third set complaining of pain in his bicep/forearm. Ok, perfectly acceptable. The trainer is waived off because treatment will begin after the end of the set. Ok, that seems fair, doesnt want to distrupt the rhythm of the match.

Nadal calls trainer out at 2-1 with PP serving. This time the "injury" is in his knees. Ok...so which one is it. There is no treatment for the forearm injury and only the knees are treated.

Later we find out later that during the MTO, Nadal is given a silent warning that he needs to stop being coached. Nadal complains and tells his box to stfu.

After the MTO, Nadal breezes through the set and PP can barely get a first serve in

Fifth set, Nadal gets a code violation for illegal on court coaching.

So what do we see from this match. Gamesmanship is ok. Players should be able to overcome it. If Federer did commit gamesmanship, Davy overcame it and broke him but later choked.

Nadal's gamesmanship is fine too, although i dont like it because he does it in every match (fist pump UE, taking extra time between changeovers, serves). However, Nadal literally cheated today. He was caught red-handed and i want nadal-****s, like CMM and babbbete to admit it.
Click to expand...

crying-baby.jpg
 
AM95

AM95

Hall of Fame
babbette said:
Man you people are idiots! You've discussed this at lenght in the results section all day now you make your threads in this sections as if your views are facts and you discuss it further at lenght. It is not that freaking serious and seriously I can't imagine anything worst then spending all night here and this discussing what was already said by the same posters in the results section. :roll:
Click to expand...

funy this is, is that if federer did that this entire forum would turn on itself. thats hypocrisy at its finest
 
B

Berundi

Banned
It's pretty clear that Nadal cannot rely on talent alone to win slams, which is why he has to resort to this. He did it at W07 and 08 too.
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
Rippy said:
He didn't do it at 07, since he broke his own momentum with that one.
Click to expand...

WB 07, the moment where the MTO master tripped on his own feet:)

You see, what actually happened is that he misinterpreted a tony signal and took the MTO when Fed would be unaffected by it, Federer only gets affected by this on clay and at 5-1. That's why he was crying in the locker room afterwards, he had lost his second WB final because of a misunderstanding with the hand signals.

He cut his own momentum when he should have been cutting Fed's.
 
D

dmt

Hall of Fame
Berundi said:
It's pretty clear that Nadal cannot rely on talent alone to win slams, which is why he has to resort to this. He did it at W07 and 08 too.
Click to expand...
. He has won all 7 of his slams fair and square. At wimbledon 07 the momentum was with nadal before he called his trainer so your argument there is pointless. He has won his 7 majors on his ability alone, sorry if that bothers you.
 
Last edited:
M

mindgrinder

New User
AM95 said:
Why?

Because.

Federer's "gamesmanship" did not involve faking two injuries.

Federer's "gamesmanship" was simply going to the bathroom. He took a long time, yes. But this disrupted his own already poor rhythm, and in-fact, he was broken in his second service game.

The reason Federer won his match at the AO was because of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh2KD5EOU7I&feature=related#t=9m50s

its already linked for your conveniece.

That backhand miss was the turning point in the match. Cahill and Gilbert both spoke about it ( i will try to find this)

_________________________________________________________________

Lets talk about Nadal and his gamesmanship and cheating:

Nadal called out the trainer at around 5-4 in the third set complaining of pain in his bicep/forearm. Ok, perfectly acceptable. The trainer is waived off because treatment will begin after the end of the set. Ok, that seems fair, doesnt want to distrupt the rhythm of the match.

Nadal calls trainer out at 2-1 with PP serving. This time the "injury" is in his knees. Ok...so which one is it. There is no treatment for the forearm injury and only the knees are treated.

Later we find out later that during the MTO, Nadal is given a silent warning that he needs to stop being coached. Nadal complains and tells his box to stfu.

After the MTO, Nadal breezes through the set and PP can barely get a first serve in

Fifth set, Nadal gets a code violation for illegal on court coaching.

So what do we see from this match. Gamesmanship is ok. Players should be able to overcome it. If Federer did commit gamesmanship, Davy overcame it and broke him but later choked.

Nadal's gamesmanship is fine too, although i dont like it because he does it in every match (fist pump UE, taking extra time between changeovers, serves). However, Nadal literally cheated today. He was caught red-handed and i want nadal-****s, like CMM and babbbete to admit it.
Click to expand...
*Warning* ******* in R&D * Run for your lives*
 
B

Berundi

Banned
dmt said:
. He has won all 7 of his slams fair and square. At wimbledon 07 the momentum was with nadal before he called his trainer so your argument there is pointless. He has won his 7 majors on his ability alone, sorry if that bothers you.
Click to expand...

If he wins this W, it won't be fair and square. He cheated. I think that much is clear to all except blind worshippers of Nadal.
 
D

dmt

Hall of Fame
Berundi said:
If he wins this W, it won't be fair and square. He cheated. I think that much is clear to all except blind worshippers of Nadal.
Click to expand...

actually if you consider what nadal did as cheating, then his opponent cheated too.
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
Omega_7000 said:
It really is unbelievable that some people still think Rafa had a legitimate injury...:neutral:
Click to expand...

What does injury mean to you? He had a tight quad, in an area that has troubled him before, he got it massaged for three minutes and came back on court. Most MTO's are for small things that you feel can hamper your game, they can't really do anything for you on court if you have something major, now can they?

If you have something big or which you feel could worsen if you play more, you retire from the match.
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
dmt said:
actually if you consider what nadal did as cheating, then his opponent cheated too.
Click to expand...

It's rediculous to paint Petzschner and Nadal with the same paint brush. Rafa is the one who has the history of calling fake injury when he's down in the match. Plus, Rafa cheated for on court coaching.

Your comparison between the two players is just an attempt to minimize Rafa's guilt. You know Rafa was wrong but don't want to admit it. We know.
 
rovex

rovex

Legend
TMF said:
It's rediculous to paint Petzschner and Nadal with the same paint brush. Rafa is the one who has the history of calling fake injury when he's down in the match. Plus, Rafa cheated for on court coaching.

Your comparison between the two players is just an attempt to minimize Rafa's guilt. You know Rafa was wrong but don't want to admit it. We know.
Click to expand...

Your German press must be unhappy with Nadal...
 
D

dmt

Hall of Fame
TMF said:
It's rediculous to paint Petzschner and Nadal with the same paint brush. Rafa is the one who has the history of calling fake injury when he's down in the match. Plus, Rafa cheated for on court coaching.

Your comparison between the two players is just an attempt to minimize Rafa's guilt. You know Rafa was wrong but don't want to admit it. We know.
Click to expand...

yes we know toni should shut up and nadal even told his team to shut up? What more should he do, beat up his team or something?

And why didnt rafa fake injuries vs federer in 2007 masters cup, vs Tsonga in aussie open 08, or vs del potro at us open 09? Or at last years end of year championships when he lost every match?
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
rovex said:
Your German press must be unhappy with Nadal...
Click to expand...

Sorry, but many fans in here share the same view point aren't coming from German.

It's too obvious not to accept it. Even if I try real hard to defend Rafa, it would make me look silly. And I'm not going to do that. Anyone wants to look silly, be my guess!
 
rovex

rovex

Legend
TMF said:
Sorry, but many fans in here share the same view point aren't coming from German.

It's too obvious not to accept it. Even if I try real hard to defend Rafa, it would make me look silly. And I'm not going to do that. Anyone wants to look silly, be my guess!
Click to expand...

All i was saying was that i am sure your German press was annoyed about what Nadal did. Doesn't mean i disagreed with it. And since your from Germany you'd know more than I of what the press there made of it.
 
jackson vile

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
AM95 said:
Why?

Because.

Federer's "gamesmanship" did not involve faking two injuries.

Federer's "gamesmanship" was simply going to the bathroom. He took a long time, yes. But this disrupted his own already poor rhythm, and in-fact, he was broken in his second service game.

The reason Federer won his match at the AO was because of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh2KD5EOU7I&feature=related#t=9m50s

its already linked for your conveniece.

That backhand miss was the turning point in the match. Cahill and Gilbert both spoke about it ( i will try to find this)

_________________________________________________________________

Lets talk about Nadal and his gamesmanship and cheating:

Nadal called out the trainer at around 5-4 in the third set complaining of pain in his bicep/forearm. Ok, perfectly acceptable. The trainer is waived off because treatment will begin after the end of the set. Ok, that seems fair, doesnt want to distrupt the rhythm of the match.

Nadal calls trainer out at 2-1 with PP serving. This time the "injury" is in his knees. Ok...so which one is it. There is no treatment for the forearm injury and only the knees are treated.

Later we find out later that during the MTO, Nadal is given a silent warning that he needs to stop being coached. Nadal complains and tells his box to stfu.

After the MTO, Nadal breezes through the set and PP can barely get a first serve in

Fifth set, Nadal gets a code violation for illegal on court coaching.

So what do we see from this match. Gamesmanship is ok. Players should be able to overcome it. If Federer did commit gamesmanship, Davy overcame it and broke him but later choked.

Nadal's gamesmanship is fine too, although i dont like it because he does it in every match (fist pump UE, taking extra time between changeovers, serves). However, Nadal literally cheated today. He was caught red-handed and i want nadal-****s, like CMM and babbbete to admit it.
Click to expand...

You are a total fruit cake LOL

Petzschner called for injury time outs as well

There was no coaching get real!

Federer out right cheated and then admitted that was his intention.
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
dmt said:
yes we know toni should shut up and nadal even told his team to shut up? What more should he do, beat up his team or something?

And why didnt rafa fake injuries vs federer in 2007 masters cup, vs Tsonga in aussie open 08, or vs del potro at us open 09? Or at last years end of year championships when he lost every match?
Click to expand...

Nadal yell out "shut up" was an attempt to tell the umpire that it's not his fault, but his uncle. I know what he's up too. He wants coaching, but when getting caught, he act as if he didn't want it but his coach is to blame. Rafa is really slick, you know that.

You expect rafa to call EVERY injury timouts when he's down is a solid proof? No, there's number of matches that he did the same thing yesterday. And that's good enough evidence to prove out point. Plus, none of the timeout were never called when he's up 2 set to 0. Wonder why???
 
D

dmt

Hall of Fame
TMF said:
Nadal yell out "shut up" was an attempt to tell the umpire that it's not his fault, but his uncle. I know what he's up too. He wants coaching, but when getting caught, he act as if he didn't want it but his coach is to blame. Rafa is really slick, you know that.

You expect rafa to call EVERY injury timouts when he's down is a solid proof? No, there's number of matches that he did the same thing yesterday. And that's good enough evidence to prove out point. Plus, none of the timeout were never called when he's up 2 set to 0. Wonder why???
Click to expand...

but if memory serves me correct, he was winning 4-1 at wimby 07 before he called his trainer, right? I mean yes he was down 2 sets to 1 but he was winning the 4th rather easily and the momentum was with him. I havent see this match in a while though so i am not sure. So is calling your trainer when you are up 4-1 and the momentum is with you "cheating" as well?
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
dmt said:
but if memory serves me correct, he was winning 4-1 at wimby 07 before he called his trainer, right? I mean yes he was down 2 sets to 1 but he was winning the 4th rather easily and the momentum was with him. I havent see this match in a while though so i am not sure. So is calling your trainer when you are up 4-1 and the momentum is with you "cheating" as well?
Click to expand...

Still, he was playing catch up in 2007. In that match he had the trainer wrap tape around his knee for precaution. But the match yesterday was different...there's no evidence of him having problem with his knee(and his arm). After the timeout,hHe played better and Petzchner was never the same guy. That's the fact.
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
dmt said:
yes we know toni should shut up and nadal even told his team to shut up? What more should he do, beat up his team or something?

And why didnt rafa fake injuries vs federer in 2007 masters cup, vs Tsonga in aussie open 08, or vs del potro at us open 09? Or at last years end of year championships when he lost every match?
Click to expand...

According to TW, he somehow knew that he would lose these matches and he didn't bother but he knew that a 4th set timeout at 2-1 with PP would definitely gift him the break as he read PP and knew he would crumble. He can only fake injuries against lower ranked guys.
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
TMF said:
There's no evidence of him having problem with his knee(and his arm). After the timeout,hHe played better and Petzchner was never the same guy. That's the fact.
Click to expand...

How do you know this? Are you Nadal?

Did it ever occur to you that PP played worse because his serve was already starting to go, before Nadal's MTO? He nearly got broken in his first service game in the fourth, saving 2 BP's.

And what would it take for you to definitely say "yes this guy clearly has something bothering him in his arm or quad" ?

I hope you do know that most MTO's are for minor things but that can bother the player at hand. Your arm shouldn't be falling off and your leg shouldn't be broken for you to call the trainer. If it is anything major, you have to retire or risk further injury.

I wonder what people's reaction would be if Nadal would serve, get broken, have his arm checked out and then his opponent would gift the re-break. It would probably be an outrage still.
 
TheTruth

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
Omega_7000 said:
It really is unbelievable that some people still think Rafa had a legitimate injury...:neutral:
Click to expand...

No, unbelievable that people feel so threatened.

Not one person on this forum knows his extensive medical history, or how he was feeling in the moment.

To speculate, call someone a cheat, and be so downright cruel is what is unbelievable.

I can't imagine feeling an ounce of the vitriol I see witnessed on this board on a daily basis.

but, then I'm glad I don't know these people in the real world.
 
TheTruth

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
jackson vile said:
This is a good one LOL


Oh no honest, Roger is fair and square even though he admitted to cheating.:shock:
Click to expand...

Amazing, and they still don't see how they come off. Roger actually admitted it, but somehow they twist it into something else.

I guess he would have to pan to the camera and say, "To my fans at TW, I really did cheat. Seriously." Lol!
 
P_Agony

P_Agony

Banned
TheTruth said:
Amazing, and they still don't see how they come off. Roger actually admitted it, but somehow they twist it into something else.

I guess he would have to pan to the camera and say, "To my fans at TW, I really did cheat. Seriously." Lol!
Click to expand...

No, he didn't admit it, but if you think that was cheating and Nadal's tacitcs from yesterday were clean, then wow, god bless biased opinions :)
 
P_Agony

P_Agony

Banned
namelessone said:
I can't believe that some people are still pissed about Federer's ****.

Do you people have nothing better to do?
Click to expand...

If I were a *******, I would try to find something else, like attacking Fed for his loser attitude at times after he loses or the stuff he said about Jankovic. Plenty of stuff to bash Fed over, but sportsmanship isn't one of them.

OT - is there any new development on the Hanescu indident? I totally forgot about it with all the Rafa/Petz stuff going on.
 
namelessone

namelessone

Legend
P_Agony said:
If I were a *******, I would try to find something else, like attacking Fed for his loser attitude at times after he loses or the stuff he said about Jankovic. Plenty of stuff to bash Fed over, but sportsmanship isn't one of them.

OT - is there any new development on the Hanescu indident? I totally forgot about it with all the Rafa/Petz stuff going on.
Click to expand...


WIMBLEDON, England (AP) -Victor Hanescu has been fined $15,000 by Wimbledon officials after a spitting incident in his third-round match.The Romanian was fined $7,500 Saturday for unsportsmanlike conduct after swearing and spitting in the direction of hecklers in the crowd. He was fined an additional $7,500 for not using ``best efforts'' at the conclusion of Friday's match against Germany's Daniel Brands.The Romanian foot-faulted and served a series of double-faults in the final game of his match before retiring while trailing 0-3 in the fifth set. He said he had a leg muscle injury.Hanescu has 10 days to appeal.

Kinda harsh if you ask me. How come the umpire isn't punished for not taking any action against those punks?
 
TheTruth

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
P_Agony said:
No, he didn't admit it, but if you think that was cheating and Nadal's tacitcs from yesterday were clean, then wow, god bless biased opinions :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I do, and imo, he did. He clearly said it, but the excuse around here is he was only kidding. That's rich.

I mean, c'mon this is the guy who when a teenaged Nadal first came on the scene was making some pretty snippy comments regarding his game and his "tactics." So, if you think I think he's a ******* of virtue, you're mistaken. I remember this incident and the toenail clipping incident against Tipsarevic. And there was also the one match where he stopped the momentum to get his feet taped, and on the next change of end stopped the match to get the tape taken off. You remember that? So when it comes to gamesmanship your boy is just as bad as any other pro other. Some of you just refuse to see it.

And biased opinions, what's odd about a guy who's always injured taking a medical timeout? What's so unusual about that?

An astute observer can see Petzschner was beginning to lose it in the fourth set.

I don't know why they did that to p a r a g o n. Weird.
 
TheTruth

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
P_Agony said:
If I were a *******, I would try to find something else, like attacking Fed for his loser attitude at times after he loses or the stuff he said about Jankovic. Plenty of stuff to bash Fed over, but sportsmanship isn't one of them.

OT - is there any new development on the Hanescu indident? I totally forgot about it with all the Rafa/Petz stuff going on.
Click to expand...

No one's attacking Fed. People are discussing the double standards. And everyone obviously doesn't think he's the best sportsman.
 
P_Agony

P_Agony

Banned
namelessone said:
WIMBLEDON, England (AP) -Victor Hanescu has been fined $15,000 by Wimbledon officials after a spitting incident in his third-round match.The Romanian was fined $7,500 Saturday for unsportsmanlike conduct after swearing and spitting in the direction of hecklers in the crowd. He was fined an additional $7,500 for not using ``best efforts'' at the conclusion of Friday's match against Germany's Daniel Brands.The Romanian foot-faulted and served a series of double-faults in the final game of his match before retiring while trailing 0-3 in the fifth set. He said he had a leg muscle injury.Hanescu has 10 days to appeal.

Kinda harsh if you ask me. How come the umpire isn't punished for not taking any action against those punks?
Click to expand...

Poor guy, I always liked his attitude. Calm, quiet, and looks like a very nice guy as well. He's always very respectful to his opponents and always tries his best. To guys like Fed and Nadal, $15000 is nothing, but to the lower ranked players it can be a painful amount of money to be taken. Umpire should get punished for doing squat when Hanescu clearly complained, more than once, and he was clearly being abused by those punks in the crowd.
 
P_Agony

P_Agony

Banned
TheTruth said:
Yeah, I do, and imo, he did. He clearly said it, but the excuse around here is he was only kidding. That's rich.

I mean, c'mon this is the guy who when a teenaged Nadal first came on the scene was making some pretty snippy comments regarding his game and his "tactics." So, if you think I think he's a ******* of virtue, you're mistaken. I remember this incident and the toenail clipping incident against Tipsarevic. And there was also the one match where he stopped the momentum to get his feet taped, and on the next change of end stopped the match to get the tape taken off. You remember that? So when it comes to gamesmanship your boy is just as bad as any other pro other. Some of you just refuse to see it.

And biased opinions, what's odd about a guy who's always injured taking a medical timeout? What's so unusual about that?

An astute observer can see Petzschner was beginning to lose it in the fourth set.

I don't know why they did that to p a r a g o n. Weird.
Click to expand...

What Federer said about Nadal's game once upon a time was dirty, and its a valid point to bash Federer over. However, this has nothing to do with the topic, which is labled "cheating". You have every right to think Fed cheated against Davy (I disagree), but if you think he cheated and at the same time you think Nadal's tactics yesterday were clean - that I cannot understand. You can't have it both ways.
 
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