No offense taken, I'm a haloe, but my wife is Filipina. I disagree though, there are plenty of Hawaiians here,hundreds of thousands actually, and I have 11 Hawaiian nieces and nephews, for instance, so I'm not sure where that comment came from. I can't decipher anti-non-Hawaiian right now,it's late, even here. That seems like some kind of double negative. No, tennis is not the biggest sport here, but we produce more than our fair share of oline men, MLB players and volleyball players. We've produced some decent tennis players too(per capita) and there some good players in the pipeline, including some who are Hawaiian.
Yeah, BYUH. Foreign players. I know.
It's hard for players to travel to/from HI to compete. Most of the tennis players from hawaii's universities don't end up anywhere. i don't want to say their game suck after college, but they mostly end up doing really stupid jobs after school.
It's hard for players to travel to/from HI to compete. Most of the tennis players from hawaii's universities don't end up anywhere. i don't want to say their game suck after college, but they mostly end up doing really stupid jobs after school.
Once again, Dennis Lajola. Hawaiian played at Hawaii-Manoa. Ranked 589 in the world and 34th best American in the world right now. That's pretty good. he is also getting better, playing his best tennis after college.
I see alot of good points and arguments here. But all of the people are missing one point. The coaches at 90% of the schools are just stupid.
For Example, I have a good friend(american) who played at a mid major D1 in Illinois. In his second year he got sick and was done for that year and the next. He had 2 years remaining of tennis, he contacted the coach at a mid major school in Florida. But the coach told him he could only give him 40% scholarship because he was bringing 2 foreign players in. One of the players was a french kid, and since I live in France now I he asked me how good this kid was. Here in france we have a very comprehensive ranking system, it is 95% impossible to have your ranking higher then your actually level at that moment (barring injury, sickness, or other random problem). So I look the kids name up, his ranking was 4/6 (in france that is considered really weak, a social tennis ranking).
So this fault is the coach was stupid!! just no idea what he is doing...unfit for coaching a college team.
He was giving a 80% scholarship to a foreigner who has a agent from a recruiting service hyping him up. My friend is a much better player.
This is just one example of a coach who has no idea what he is doing.
But in my opinion this is 90% of those mid major schools who have 90% foreign players. Not only are the coaches lazy, they also have no idea how to evaluate talent, are if you can beleive it...have no idea how the ranking system works in France. If you are a college coach...you better learn how the french ranking system works. Its easy to understand, and its the best system as far as knowing what kind of player you are going to get.
I have absolutely no dog in the fight. I only played IM tennis in college (Michigan) and I am under no delusion that my 10 year old daughter is going to get a tennnis scholarship for college.
I am hoping that tennis will help her get into a college of her choice, but I have no expectations that she is going to get a scholarship for it. Nor do I want one, as she has very high academic achievements so far and she has a realistic chance of getting into an Ivy League school or local top public universities with full scholarship (academic, not athletic).
Back on topic. It is true for most college coaching (for any sport) that they just follow the herd. All of these college coaches recruit foreign players because that has been a successful strategy for many schools at the top.
If recruiting and "coaching up" American kids started paying off, everyone else will start copying that as well.
If you want less scholarships going to foreign players, all you have to do is to produce better American players. It is really not complicated.
I see alot of good points and arguments here. But all of the people are missing one point. The coaches at 90% of the schools are just stupid.
For Example, I have a good friend(american) who played at a mid major D1 in Illinois. In his second year he got sick and was done for that year and the next. He had 2 years remaining of tennis, he contacted the coach at a mid major school in Florida. But the coach told him he could only give him 40% scholarship because he was bringing 2 foreign players in. One of the players was a french kid, and since I live in France now I he asked me how good this kid was. Here in france we have a very comprehensive ranking system, it is 95% impossible to have your ranking higher then your actually level at that moment (barring injury, sickness, or other random problem). So I look the kids name up, his ranking was 4/6 (in france that is considered really weak, a social tennis ranking).
So this fault is the coach was stupid!! just no idea what he is doing...unfit for coaching a college team.
He was giving a 80% scholarship to a foreigner who has a agent from a recruiting service hyping him up. My friend is a much better player.
This is just one example of a coach who has no idea what he is doing.
But in my opinion this is 90% of those mid major schools who have 90% foreign players. Not only are the coaches lazy, they also have no idea how to evaluate talent, are if you can beleive it...have no idea how the ranking system works in France. If you are a college coach...you better learn how the french ranking system works. Its easy to understand, and its the best system as far as knowing what kind of player you are going to get.
Actually the coaches are smart, they take money from the foreign recruiters.
Why do American college kids have to compete against the top kids from the world?
Our collegiate athletic teams compete within the U.S., not the world.
The players pay the recruiters. College coaches are not allowed to accept money from recruiters.
That is not true. There are plenty of foreign kids who get basketball scholarships. The numbers are small because US kids are better in general, but there are a lot of basketball teams with one or two foreign players on the roster.
The same holds true for football as well, it is just that superior foreign kids in football is very rare.
The kids are competing with the world already.
That is not true. There are plenty of foreign kids who get basketball scholarships. The numbers are small because US kids are better in general, but there are a lot of basketball teams with one or two foreign players on the roster.
The same holds true for football as well, it is just that superior foreign kids in football is very rare.
The kids are competing with the world already.
That is not true. There are plenty of foreign kids who get basketball scholarships. The numbers are small because US kids are better in general, but there are a lot of basketball teams with one or two foreign players on the roster.
The same holds true for football as well, it is just that superior foreign kids in football is very rare.
The kids are competing with the world already.
Actually the coaches are smart, they take money from the foreign recruiters.
You are alleging on a public forum violations of NCAA rules.........and possibly criminal activity. If you have information about possible criminal activity and don't bring it to the attention of the authorities, that is a crime in many jurisdictions.
It is hoped you have informed the NCAA and law enforcement about the information you have so something can be done about it...............if true.
You are alleging on a public forum violations of NCAA rules.........and possibly criminal activity. If you have information about possible criminal activity and don't bring it to the attention of the authorities, that is a crime in many jurisdictions.
It is hoped you have informed the NCAA and law enforcement about the information you have so something can be done about it...............if true.
In which country do you live in?
Here in America, we have what's called, freedom of speech!
I am hoping that tennis will help her get into a college of her choice, but I have no expectations that she is going to get a scholarship for it. Nor do I want one, as she has very high academic achievements so far and she has a realistic chance of getting into an Ivy League school or local top public universities with full scholarship (academic, not athletic).
Back on topic. It is true for most college coaching (for any sport) that they just follow the herd. All of these college coaches recruit foreign players because that has been a successful strategy for many schools at the top.
If recruiting and "coaching up" American kids started paying off, everyone else will start copying that as well.
If you want less scholarships going to foreign players, all you have to do is to produce better American players. It is really not complicated.
True, but not reality. What is the value of a 200k scholarship to a family in say, Germany?
Uh oh. Tennishacker and Misterbill are at it and it's only page 7. What's the over-under on this thread making it? Page 10?
The Udub coach was very clear about this : She has to have top 20 players or she's bringing in the hired guns. Doesn't matter how good the other players are outside the top 20, she has to compete with Stanford, UCLA, USC so it has to be top 20. What do you suggest we do, increase the number of top 20 players ? Maybe have 50 top 20 players ?
I think the American kids are improving, but the games rigged against them, They can't all be top 20.
Yes, but I'm talking about tennis teams that are 80-100% foreigners.
I'm for foreigners, just in moderation.
The Udub coach was very clear about this : She has to have top 20 players or she's bringing in the hired guns. Doesn't matter how good the other players are outside the top 20, she has to compete with Stanford, UCLA, USC so it has to be top 20. What do you suggest we do, increase the number of top 20 players ? Maybe have 50 top 20 players ?
I think the American kids are improving, but the games rigged against them, They can't all be top 20.
That does not make sense.
If the top 50 American players are better than the "hired guns" that she can bring in, she would recruit those players. Like you said, she is simply trying to compete against other top programs.
The reason why she is limiting it to top 20 players is because those are the only players better than the "hired gun" players she can bring in from overseas.
Sports is just about the most pure form of meritocracy we have in our society.
If UW coach does not win with her methods, she will be fired and replaced with somebody else.
If having more American kids on the squad means more wins, coaches WILL recruit more American kids.
Exactly. They don't recruit players because they like their personalities. They are using their judgement on who will most likely win. If they don't do that, ultimately the coach is the one that is gone. Then the next coach will have to figure it out.
Interesting that the Winthrop program was brought up. The women have won how many conference titles? 18? And why should he change his recruiting methods? Because SC is such a hotbed of talent dying to go there?
Sports is just about the most pure form of meritocracy we have in our society.
If UW coach does not win with her methods, she will be fired and replaced with somebody else.
If having more American kids on the squad means more wins, coaches WILL recruit more American kids.
Does any country in Europe or anywhere else have even one university program where US players can get a free ride for playing tennis?
Nope, never have, never will.
Except that generally, half the programs are winners and half the programs are losers. The coaches of the loser programs will look for any edge within the rulesto get back in with the winners. So if it is her, it will be someone else, until the rules are changed.
Does any country in Europe or anywhere else have even one university program where US players can get a free ride for playing tennis?
Nope, never have, never will.
First, I struggle with the concept that Foreign competition helps Americans play better tennis.
If a team is 100% comprised of foreigners, how does that help Americans?
Or if the team has 2 Americans and the rest are foreigners, how does that help the other Americans who didn't make the team?
I am sorry, but I am having a hard time understanding what you are trying to say here...
Why do you believe that universities care about helping Americans play better tennis?
Personally, I don't know if what USTA is doing today is going to help or hurt American tennis in the long run, but at least USTA does (and should) care about making American tennis better. Universities couldn't care less. USTA can ask for caps, but I highly doubt NCAA will listen. Even NFL cannot coordinate athletic programs with NCAA, why do you think USTA can?
My point was that the USTA, the governing board for tennis in this country, at best doesn't seem to care,
about the rest of the juniors in this country. And therefore, we will not be receiving any support in this area.
Wayne Bryan in his open letter that circulated the internet brought up this problem,
and Patrick in his very detailed response letter back to Wayne ( and the viewing public) ignored the issue.
Here this years women's conference result, from last to first, with the number of foreign players and number of US players :
School, Foreign Players, American Players
CU 5 2
Washington 5 2
Oregon 6 4
Utah 2 7
Arizona State 3 5
Arizona 5 3
Washington State 8 2
Cal 6 4
UCLA 1 12
Stanford 0 8
USC 1 10
Market forces do not appear to be working.
Can you or anyone name an American tennis playing junior that was denied all tennis scholarship opportunities after exhausting all avenues available to play (NCAA DI & DII, NAIA and NJCAA), due to internationals playing U.S. College tennis?
http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/USTA_Intl_SA_FAQ_FINAL_CLEAN.pdf
Never can, never will.
My point was that the USTA, the governing board for tennis in this country, at best doesn't seem to care,
about the rest of the juniors in this country. And therefore, we will not be receiving any support in this area.
Wayne Bryan in his open letter that circulated the internet brought up this problem,
and Patrick in his very detailed response letter back to Wayne ( and the viewing public) ignored the issue.
The reason he did not address it is two fold. #1 Internationals playing college tennis in the U.S. raise the level of the game. Thus the Americans who strive to compete against the best and not have things given to them, have to raise their level of play. #2. It's really not as big a problem a people make it up to be when you get right down to it. See the proof. http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/USTA_Intl_SA_FAQ_FINAL_CLEAN.pdf
Your document shows that any US junior ranked worse than 300 has little chance. Yet there are at least 1,000 US high school players who actively trained and played tennis and would like to have a tennis college scholarship. Many come from middle class cash-strapped parents.
Andfor - I think this is a bit dated...
Copying the first table -
According to the NCAA’s 2006-2007 Student-Athlete Race and Ethnicity Report (the most recent data available to the public):