If Murray wins Paris and WTF, would you consider him the player of the year?
- Thread starter kragster
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Hmm, no. I think his reward is and should be that he's in a great position to become no. 1, but his first part of the year just was significantly worse than Novak's. He was way way worse on clay, and on grass they didn't meet because Rog was better than both. He would be HC player of the year though.
tennisenthusiast
Hall of Fame
Being a *******, I consider Federer to be the player of the year.
Last 2x he has played federer he won convincingly, without any signs of struggle.
Last 3 matches between him and djoko it has been extremely close, with Murray winning 2/3.
Murray is the best at this moment in time. Not the best throughout the entire year by any means, but he is playing the best tennis as of now.
Last 3 matches between him and djoko it has been extremely close, with Murray winning 2/3.
Murray is the best at this moment in time. Not the best throughout the entire year by any means, but he is playing the best tennis as of now.
Sorry. So okay, he's second best on grass (only just) and best on hards, but only fifth on clay I guess, so my point still stands. His clay season just wasn't good enough compared to Nole's. But it's def. close, which the points would show if he wins it all.
Purely titles based, he should be above Nole of course, since WTF and Olympics are most important after slams.
batz
G.O.A.T.
IMO Noel is POTY - it just gets cemented if he wins WTF. That said, there is an arguemnt to be made for Murray if he wins WTF. The argument is that there were 6 big prizes up for grabs this year and if Murray wins WTF he'll have won 3 of them - with the balance split between 3 other players.
But I agree that as of right now, Noel is clear POTY.
I never said that, i said i think he is the world's best player.
underground
G.O.A.T.
Yes Murray has been great this year, but you can't compare to what Fed has done this year at his age.
batz
G.O.A.T.
Yep - if Sexi wins the WTF you could also make an argument for him being POTY.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Yeah i feel if Murray wins the Wtf player of the year is between Novak and him but Murray having a breakthrough year would probably win official player of the year.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
I guess that should do it.
First Slam, Olympic gold medal, first Paris title, first WTF title. That's 4 firsts and at least 3 of them are pretty big firsts! I don't really think anyone but the most die-hard Murrayphobes could begrudge him if that turns out to be the case. I doubt even Djokovic and Federer would begrudge him!
First Slam, Olympic gold medal, first Paris title, first WTF title. That's 4 firsts and at least 3 of them are pretty big firsts! I don't really think anyone but the most die-hard Murrayphobes could begrudge him if that turns out to be the case. I doubt even Djokovic and Federer would begrudge him!
Terenigma
G.O.A.T.
I think Murray, Federer and Djokovic have all had an equally good year, you could make arguements for each of them being the best player this year and noone could realistically argue.
With that said tho, the WTF is the decider, i think whoever wins the WTF is the player of the year. If murray wins paris and the WTF then no arguement can be made against him being the player of the year.
With that said tho, the WTF is the decider, i think whoever wins the WTF is the player of the year. If murray wins paris and the WTF then no arguement can be made against him being the player of the year.
Smasher08
Legend
Let's review the contenders:
Djoker -- clearly declined from last year. Had a horrible loss today. Tied with Fed for most MS1000s but won Toronto just by showing up. May not finish YE #1.
Muzz -- player of the moment. Won USO and Olympics. Had a horrible year until SW19. Benefitted the most from the absence of Nadal.
Sexi -- comeback year. Tied for most MS1000s, took over #1 and can mathematically retake it. Turned 31 in August and played through injuries. Key wins over Djoko after the clay season.
Verdict: Whoever wins at the O2 should take it, regardless of ranking. Otherwise imo Fed is the strongest contender.
Oh . . . I almost forgot the fourth contender.
Rosol -- came out of nowhere and in the course of one match rocked the tennis world to its very foundations, the effects of which will still reverberate throughout the early part of next year. Not bad for a career journeyman who'd never made it out of qualies.
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tennisenthusiast
Hall of Fame
So, you feel Djokovic may not end #1? And, Federer has chance of reclaiming it before the year or early next year?
Backhanded Compliment
Legend
That's the way I see it but the real stakes are who will be #1 come February. If Murray can take the WTF it puts him in an excellent position.
Desertman
Hall of Fame
Win or not, I already consider him 2012 player of the year.
To overcome a 76 year wait for a Grand Slam title with the weight if 60 million people on your shoulders, and to win your home Olympic title is amazing. These two wins far exceeds anything that the other three contenders have done this year.
To overcome a 76 year wait for a Grand Slam title with the weight if 60 million people on your shoulders, and to win your home Olympic title is amazing. These two wins far exceeds anything that the other three contenders have done this year.
beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
Hahaha, Murray still gets no respect from TW.
Sorry mate, I disagree. He has manage to consistently beat the top 3 unlike the rest the players above
Gonzo_style
Hall of Fame
NO, he didn't reach semi final on clay in any tournament!
tennisdad65
Hall of Fame
He already is POY for me. He got 2 out of the 5 big wins. Even if Fed wins WTF, it does not compare to the breakthrough aspect for Murray.
I didn't say h is a horrible player, just not up to par with the 3 best player in the world IMO. And when did he consistently beat the top 3? that you beat them once in a while doesnt mean consstency, otherwise he would be number 1, look at his loses this year:
Shangai final to djoko
Tokio at S to Raonic (15 in the world)
Cinci at R16 with Chardy No 38.
Toronto at R16 with Raonic.
Wimmbledon F to Federer.
London at r32 whit mahut no 65.
RG at Q aginst ferrer no 6.
Rome R16 against Gasquet no 22.
Barcelona Q aganinst raonic.
Monte carlo Q against Berdych No 7.
Miami F against Djoco.
Indian wells R64 agains lopez No 92.
Dubai F against Federer.
AO S against Djoko.
And he won:
only OG and USO.
He got consistently Owned by Raonic, a 20th ranking player, how can you call that player of the year? Roger and Djoko had a better year. Only fanatism will say otherwise.
rainingaces
Legend
It does not bare thinking about.
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
Even if Federer won the WTF I would not consider him as having a better year than Novak. Novak has 3 slam finals to only 1 for Roger, and both have 3 Masters with Novak more overall good results in those too. The WTF title alone would not overcome that.
Murray I would only consider above Novak if he won BOTH Paris and the WTF. Without a Masters title he would not have a better year than a guy with 3 Masters titles and the best slam record even with the Olympic and WTF wins.
As for who would win the ATP and ITF awards, they usually only deviate from the official rankings if it is a clear case, so I doubt Djokovic would not win both regardless. Only Murray would have an outside shot to win them (or one) if he won both Paris and the WTF.
Novak is already guaranteed the year end #1 ranking btw even if he goes 0-3 at the WTF.
Murray I would only consider above Novak if he won BOTH Paris and the WTF. Without a Masters title he would not have a better year than a guy with 3 Masters titles and the best slam record even with the Olympic and WTF wins.
As for who would win the ATP and ITF awards, they usually only deviate from the official rankings if it is a clear case, so I doubt Djokovic would not win both regardless. Only Murray would have an outside shot to win them (or one) if he won both Paris and the WTF.
Novak is already guaranteed the year end #1 ranking btw even if he goes 0-3 at the WTF.
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
if that is the case the guy with 1 slam, 3 slam finals, and semis of the other slam, is obviously Player of the Year as well.
kishnabe
Talk Tennis Guru
Murray won in London you know.....he can do again this year.
Murray can win WTF while Federer knocks out Djokovic in the SF stage. Murray then takes out tired old Federer from his exhausted bout with Djokovic easily.
TheF1Bob
Banned
Muzzas fitness is lame compared to the others, including old man Fed. Winning Paris then London?
Fat chance. 8)
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Player of the second half IF Fed and Nole decide to tank WTF.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Well, he has a 10-8 H2H v Federer. How's that for consistency? Does anybody else apart from Nadal boast a H2H against the world's greatest player like that? And he's beaten Djokovic, the current #1, in 3 out of 6 encounters this year and almost, and should, have beaten him in 4. Can anybody else you know of claim that??
ONLY USO and Olympics?? You make it sound so routine? How many other players have won the Olympics and a Grand Slam back to back? Federer and Djokovic have never managed it. Nadal is the only other current player who has!
Owned by Raonic?? He lost to him at Barcelona in straights on what is by far his worst surface, clay.That is true. But he destroyed him at the USO and held 2 match points against him in Tokyo which he should have converted. That hardly adds up to 'ownage' does it?
Gonzo_style
Hall of Fame
Murray is the best player of the second half, no doubt about that! Problem is first half, Federer and especially Djokovic had a much much better results!
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
All but 1 of Murray's victories over Federer were from 2008 onwards, and very little of that time was Federer ever the Worlds best player. It was most often Nadal, and when not Nadal it was most often Djokovic.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Yeah actually the area Murray has been lacking by his own standards and top 4 standards in this year is beating the guys he is way better than. I mean most of the time he's done it but he's kind of worsened in masters events and beating the lower ranked guys, but improved in slams and beating the top 4. Kind of strange. But he's done a fine job vs the top 4, I believe 2-2 vs Federer and 3-3 vs Djokovic.
I don't really see the significance of winning olympics and a slam back to back, why is that any better than winning a slam and a slam back to back? Plus there were tournaments inbetween which neither Nadal or Murray won. Plus Olympics being every 4 years means there is much less opportunity. I mean Djokovic and Federer didn't win the olympics at all, so not like their ability to win one of the nearest slams has been tested.
I thought Murray spanked Raonic at USO.
Duncan Bell
Hall of Fame
I love Murray, but if clay season was in the second half of the year, and HC was first half, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. He's hot right now, and probably the best HC/indoor player, but he's well off the pace on clay. Grass he is 2nd/3rd best.
And he isn't very good on carpet.
And he isn't very good on carpet.
batz
G.O.A.T.
4 of Murray's 10 wins over Roger came when Roger was ranked number 1 in the world. I'm not getting what Roger's ranking has to do with Murray's consistency against him.
kalyan4fedever
Legend
Who will beat murray in paris remains to be seen
augustobt
Legend
The same way he was spanked in Barcelona.
The title of "player of the year" includes the results of all the swings of the year. Slow-HC, Clay, Grass, "fast"-HC and Indoors.
How about Andy's clay season? Owned by Raonic on Barcelona, didn't play Mardid, spanked by Berdych in Monte Carlo, defeated by Gasquet on Rome and beaten by David in Paris.
As far as I remember, he didn't reach a single semi-final during the clay season. That's massive against him for this kind of award.
batz
G.O.A.T.
Yep - that's exactly what Murray himself said when asked if he was POTY - he simply didn't do enough on clay.
kalyan4fedever
Legend
Bump for apparent reason ,:twisted: this should keep murr ****s off the boards a little while
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