Djoker the current benchmark of all round tennis?
- Thread starter JSummers
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Clarky21
Banned
You do realize that changing of the guard includes Nadal? He's even more washed up than the guy you hate most because at least the guy you hate most is actually playing and winning titles. Where's Nadal? I've asked you this before and gotten no answer from you,so I don't expect you'll answer me this time,either. Actually,your silence is all the answer I need.
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Clarky21
Banned
Who gives a crap? He also lost his ranking to the same 31 year old guy that you and Vero like to say is on his way out,and also lost to him more than once this year,including at Wimby. He's also dishonest,and is a cheater big enough to rival Lance Armstrong.
He is not the most rounded player. He has things he doesn't do all that great so how can he be?
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Clarky21
Banned
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I don't think Nadal will ever dominate hard court. Win a big one here and there perhaps, but dominate the season on hard? It has never been the trend in his career. No reason why it should be now. He can continue dominating clay though. Nadal and Djoko are not mutually exclusive because they don't dominate the same surface (although I'd agree they can challenge each other on all). The change of guard is between Fed and Djoko because unlike Nadal, Fed has been the dominant hard court player for quite a while and he's not anymore.
Clarky21
Banned
You are in serious denial. When Nadal doesn't win a darn thing next year,and once again loses on clay(including RG) to Djesus,I am going to laugh heartily at you for saying junk like this. I should also say that all of this is contingent on if Nadal ever even comes back. You are in for a rude awakening my dear Fed hater.
And Nadal is not winning SQUAT on hardcourt ever again. Stop the denial.
Btw,Fed is 6 years older than Djesus yet he still beats him sometimes. Think about it.
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GOAT BAAH!!!
Professional
....In the least, he's the benchmark of baseline mastery. As other posters have mentioned, his comfort off both wings and speed/flexibility make it exceptionally difficult to boss him around from the baseline. No need to run around forehands/backhands. On the other hand, Federer's single hander is useless above shoulder level, Nadal's improper biomechanics caused his backhand to decline considerably since pushing off his right knee with the torque necessary to rip it kills him and Murray would rather engage in a 5757887892929292922927474749494 shot rally than rip a forehand up the line. Del po has the weapons but not the movement. Ferrer has the movement but not the weapons....
Djoker has it all covered to excel in the modern era.
Djoker has it all covered to excel in the modern era.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Somebody is seriously butthurt out there. Oh the rage 
I believe Nadal will come back and dominate the clay season again this year but if he doesn't I hope Djoko does. He's the second best player on red clay at the moment.
Fed can still beat Djoko? On hard? Not when it matters the most. He lost to him the last 4 times they played in the 2 most important events on hard (AO and USO) and just got straight setted by him at his last bastion and best hard court event (six wins): WTF. Fed is clearly losing his grip. He may even lose grass to Murray on top of Nadal getting back to his best. Tough luck :twisted:
I believe Nadal will come back and dominate the clay season again this year but if he doesn't I hope Djoko does. He's the second best player on red clay at the moment.
Fed can still beat Djoko? On hard? Not when it matters the most. He lost to him the last 4 times they played in the 2 most important events on hard (AO and USO) and just got straight setted by him at his last bastion and best hard court event (six wins): WTF. Fed is clearly losing his grip. He may even lose grass to Murray on top of Nadal getting back to his best. Tough luck :twisted:
kaku
Professional
quoted for truth
Djokovic isn't perfect in all areas of the court. He excels at baseline rallies though, the best at the moment
Clarky21
Banned
Somebody is seriously butthurt out there. Oh the rage
I believe Nadal will come back and dominate the clay season again this year but if he doesn't I hope Djoko does. He's the second best player on red clay at the moment.
Fed can still beat Djoko? On hard? Not when it matters the most. He lost to him the last 4 times they played in the 2 most important events on hard (AO and USO) and just got straight setted by him at his last bastion and best hard court event (six wins): WTF. Fed is clearly losing his grip. He may even lose grass to Murray on top of Nadal getting back to his best. Tough luck :twisted:
Coming from the most Butthurt Fed hater on here,that's quite hilarious. :lol:
Funny how you forgot all about the Cinci final this year when Djesus Armstrong ate a bagel. Why leave that one out? It doesn't count,but the WTF final does? You are ridiculous,Vero.
Nadal is done. Get it through your head.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Cincy matters less than AO, USO and WTF but good for Fed to still get some crumbs. He has to hurry because his window of opportunity is clearly closing.
Clarky21
Banned
Way to attempt to wiggle out of that and try to down Fed's win. It was the final of a masters. On Djesus Amrstrong's best surface. He still lost and ate a gluten filled bagel in the process. It counted just as much whether you want to admit or not.
And I am sure you wouldn't be trumpeting your favorite player if he had won that Cinci final dishing out a bagel in the process. Yeah,right. :lol:
And if anyone is getting crumbs it's Nadal,whose last bastion has been taken from him by Djesus Armstrong. He's never going to win anything again,and I'm glad. You'll be getting what you want then,and I can then laugh at you as well. :lol:
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N
NadalAgassi
Guest
I mentioned this on another thread but a Masters event is actually an average event for a top player today. In a normal year a player will play 5 or 6 events bigger than a Masters and about 4 or 5 less important than a Masters. That said in the last year Federer has beaten Djokovic in slams on both clay and grass, so he probably would have a chance to do so on hard courts too, especialy when he had match point to do so last year, but as he gets older than is going to be less and less likely, and might (not for sure, but might) not ever happen again.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Somebody is seriously butthurt out there. Oh the rage
I believe Nadal will come back and dominate the clay season again this year but if he doesn't I hope Djoko does. He's the second best player on red clay at the moment.
Fed can still beat Djoko? On hard? Not when it matters the most. He lost to him the last 4 times they played in the 2 most important events on hard (AO and USO) and just got straight setted by him at his last bastion and best hard court event (six wins): WTF. Fed is clearly losing his grip. He may even lose grass to Murray on top of Nadal getting back to his best. Tough luck :twisted:
Last 3 HC majors they've played, not 4. And in two of those losses, he had match points, and has beaten him on hardcourts in that span (after US Open 2010 he beat him three straight times, and beat him this year at Cincy).
I don't see you using this logic when comparing Fed and Murrays rivalry (i.e saying Murray can't beat Fed in a big match would be just as accurate, because he's 0-3 in slam encounters, 1-9 in sets and 1-3 at the WTF.)
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TheFifthSet
Legend
It matters less, yes, but whenever you BAGEL someone, it's clear you will still be a threat to them on that surface. Anybody that thinks Federer isn't a threat to Djokovic on hardcourts is simply being unreasonable and coy.
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Mainad
Bionic Poster
Does the Olympic final count as a big match?
TheFifthSet
Legend
Yes, it does IMO. I'm not of the opinion that Murray can't beat Federer in a big match, I'm just including that for arguments sake. Vero thinks Federer isn't a challenge to Djokovic on a hardcourt in big matches, yet sings Murray's praises for how often he beats Federer in Masters Series, despite the fact that over the past couple of years has lost most of the big matches to Federer. See what I'm trying to say?
When Murray beats Fed at Masters Series, it's a big deal, and "impressive." When Federer beats Djokovic, it's brushed off as a smaller event, and no indicator as to what will happen at slams.
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Clarky21
Banned
Exactly. Vero needs to take off her Fed Hater glasses and get with it. She's talking out of both sides of her mouth.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
To be honest, I'm not too sure about Federer v Djokovic these days. After all, its 2 years now since Federer last beat Djokovic in a hardcourt event (2010 WTF semi-final) although he should have won their 2010 and 2011 USO semis (had match points in each). Currently I feel he is more likely to beat Murray as their WTF semi recently showed.
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TheFifthSet
Legend
It's only been like 4 months (Cincinnati).
Although I see why you see it this way. Personally I think if Federer comes out guns blazing, he has a good chance against anybody on hardcourts, even now.
Djokovic has horrendous overheads, bad volleys and a very weak slice backhand.
The problem with today's tennis is that the elements above are optional in winning tournaments and becoming world #1. The baseline is the only dimension left competitive. Federer is the only anomaly in top 10, the next "all-court player" is Fish (27) followed by Stepanek (37), Dimitrov (48 ), Llodra (52), and a few (very few) lower-ranked players.
The problem with today's tennis is that the elements above are optional in winning tournaments and becoming world #1. The baseline is the only dimension left competitive. Federer is the only anomaly in top 10, the next "all-court player" is Fish (27) followed by Stepanek (37), Dimitrov (48 ), Llodra (52), and a few (very few) lower-ranked players.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Sorry, completely forgot about 2012 Cincy for some reason.
I agree. Taking this year's Cincy final into account (which I forgot) Federer is 1-1 v Djokovic on hardcourt this year and 2-1 v Murray. If he continues to play at the level he's shown for most of this year, he's still a potential threat to either.
smiley_face
Rookie
Want it or not, but all-around tennis is dying. Look at Tsonga, he's also a great all-court player with great serve and volley skill (I still remember the semi final of Aus Open 2008 when he dominated Nadal with amazing points at the net) but he chooses to stay behind the baseline because he knows that moving towards the net is like a suicide.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Sorry, completely forgot about 2012 Cincy for some reason.
No worries no worries
Yup, no doubt. He'll probably lose more often than he'll win at this point in his career on HC, but nobody would take him lightly.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
This is it exactly. It all depends on which version of Federer comes out to play at his age. When Federer comes out and plays his best or close to it and has shades of brilliance as in his prime days, he can beat Djokovic on any surface. A lot depends on his serve at this stage. If he serves very well consistently he has a good chance.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Sorry, completely forgot about 2012 Cincy for some reason.
I agree. Taking this year's Cincy final into account (which I forgot) Federer is 1-1 v Djokovic on hardcourt this year and 2-1 v Murray. If he continues to play at the level he's shown for most of this year, he's still a potential threat to either.
Yep. He is 3-2 vs Murray this year and 2-3 vs Djokovic but according to veronique he can't compete with either.
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