most of the time, strings importance is WAYYYYY overrated?
- Thread starter Rozroz
- Start date
The only important part of this. Pros will have 6 sticks strung, hit with two, and have them all redone just the same so that they're all fresh for their match.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
Yeah not to be confrontational, but Robbie Konig the other day on the Masters coverage commented that the top doubles guys may bring 2 - 3 racquets to the court. I've also read that the "Lendl-method" (swapping frames every X number of games and restringing obsessively)is not employed by the majority of pros as they just plain don't want to spend the money on strings.
I've also talked to some professional stringers and all have indicated that restringing natural gut that hasn't been hit with is a waste. The reason the pros do it is because they a) either make too much money and don't care or b) get it free and don't care.
I do appreciate your point though.
At this point, I wish Drakulie would chime in.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
I read it. Still, if you thing the frequency of breaking strings equates to winning percentage, you have either played to narrow a circle or not long enough.
SVP
Semi-Pro
With all due respect, son, I never said native English speaking grammar was required; your native tongue can be from the Planet of Lost Airmen as far as I'm concerned, as long as you can communicate coherently now.
Logic Dude
New User
I am going to back Mr. PVaudio on this one. His posts were perfectly coherent. He was making for discussion, yet you are calling him out for arbitrary mistakes that have no influence on whether you can read the post or not. As a non-native speaker, I can personally attest to the difficulty in learning English. There is no reason to digress from the point just so you can act condescending towards someone.
ChicagoJack
Hall of Fame
Hi Rozroz,
Sorry for the long read, but jeezy creezy, you've opened a pretty big can of worms here! String matters a whole bunch. I have absolutely no doubt about that. It is the heart and soul of the racquet. But I think there's a bunch of overlapping and tangled up issues here. Let's unravel, then observe from there.
Argument/Position 1 : Strings don't matter much because : Really good players can beat you with anything.
- True, but that says more about ability level than it does equipment choice. This is, essentially, one version of the eternal Swordsman vs The Sword debate. I'd guesstimate there's somewhere between 1.67 and 2.22 Gazillion Jillion TW threads discussing some variant of this debate in some form or another. There is a YouTube video somewhere that shows Andy Roddick playing with a frying pan and beating (in a tie break) what looks to be a 3.0 tennis player. That video is often posted as the jewel in the crown of the pro-swordsman / anti racquet geek debaters. When I saw that video however, I didn't come to the conclusion that racquets don't matter. I did come to several other conclusions though. A - Andy Roddick is really good. B - That guy was really bad. C - I could probably beat Andy Roddick if he was using a frying pan.
- So.. there's a guy that consistently, and maddeningly beats you using Xyz string, or only strings once per year, or worse yet, seems not to care about equipment at all. Me thinks this has more to do with an obvious talent level gap than it does string choice, or re-string frequency.
Argument/Position 2 : Strings don't matter very much because : String material makes little difference.
- I don't know if that's part of this specific conversation here, but I think that anybody who insists there's no dif in playing characteristics btwn Gut, Zyex, Nylon, Poly, or Kevlar, is just plain wrong. The only way you'd say that is from lack of honest inquiry.
- The magic fairy dust to sprinkle on your racquet in order to beat your nemesis is matching the string characteristics to your game, your stroke, your tactics. I suspect most of us already understand this at some level, and if you don't already suspect this, then I've got to ask the question, what the heck are you doing hanging out in a string forum? Go outside, play. Have fun, enjoy your game.
- You can even see the Pros doing some magic fairy dust sprinkling of their own, there are clear trends. It's no accident that the current ATP doubles points leaders, ranked 1-7 all use Gut mains poly crosses. It's no accident that as the game has evolved from 65 sq in woodies to 100 sq in Babolat PD's, full beds of Poly have reigned supreme on the singles pro tour with something like 70 out of every 100 choosing that flavor of string bed. For those of us who understand string basics, these observable trends make perfect sense, and there is quite a bit of matching strokes to racquets to string characteristics going on out there.
- So the art is matching string material characteristics to the player, the racquet, the game, the stroke. It is hard work, and requires quite a bit of time, effort and money to figure out. Nothing good comes easy. The folks that claim there is no difference are most likely the folks who are poo poo - ing an arduous process, and have not done the work.
3. Argument/Position 3 : Strings make very little difference because: Frequency of re-stringing makes very little difference. That's actually a very interesting topic, which involves a pretty nuanced answer. I'll save that for another day. This post is already so long that nobody will read it LOL.
- Hope this helps, Jack
Sorry for the long read, but jeezy creezy, you've opened a pretty big can of worms here! String matters a whole bunch. I have absolutely no doubt about that. It is the heart and soul of the racquet. But I think there's a bunch of overlapping and tangled up issues here. Let's unravel, then observe from there.
Argument/Position 1 : Strings don't matter much because : Really good players can beat you with anything.
- True, but that says more about ability level than it does equipment choice. This is, essentially, one version of the eternal Swordsman vs The Sword debate. I'd guesstimate there's somewhere between 1.67 and 2.22 Gazillion Jillion TW threads discussing some variant of this debate in some form or another. There is a YouTube video somewhere that shows Andy Roddick playing with a frying pan and beating (in a tie break) what looks to be a 3.0 tennis player. That video is often posted as the jewel in the crown of the pro-swordsman / anti racquet geek debaters. When I saw that video however, I didn't come to the conclusion that racquets don't matter. I did come to several other conclusions though. A - Andy Roddick is really good. B - That guy was really bad. C - I could probably beat Andy Roddick if he was using a frying pan.
- So.. there's a guy that consistently, and maddeningly beats you using Xyz string, or only strings once per year, or worse yet, seems not to care about equipment at all. Me thinks this has more to do with an obvious talent level gap than it does string choice, or re-string frequency.
Argument/Position 2 : Strings don't matter very much because : String material makes little difference.
- I don't know if that's part of this specific conversation here, but I think that anybody who insists there's no dif in playing characteristics btwn Gut, Zyex, Nylon, Poly, or Kevlar, is just plain wrong. The only way you'd say that is from lack of honest inquiry.
- The magic fairy dust to sprinkle on your racquet in order to beat your nemesis is matching the string characteristics to your game, your stroke, your tactics. I suspect most of us already understand this at some level, and if you don't already suspect this, then I've got to ask the question, what the heck are you doing hanging out in a string forum? Go outside, play. Have fun, enjoy your game.
- You can even see the Pros doing some magic fairy dust sprinkling of their own, there are clear trends. It's no accident that the current ATP doubles points leaders, ranked 1-7 all use Gut mains poly crosses. It's no accident that as the game has evolved from 65 sq in woodies to 100 sq in Babolat PD's, full beds of Poly have reigned supreme on the singles pro tour with something like 70 out of every 100 choosing that flavor of string bed. For those of us who understand string basics, these observable trends make perfect sense, and there is quite a bit of matching strokes to racquets to string characteristics going on out there.
- So the art is matching string material characteristics to the player, the racquet, the game, the stroke. It is hard work, and requires quite a bit of time, effort and money to figure out. Nothing good comes easy. The folks that claim there is no difference are most likely the folks who are poo poo - ing an arduous process, and have not done the work.
3. Argument/Position 3 : Strings make very little difference because: Frequency of re-stringing makes very little difference. That's actually a very interesting topic, which involves a pretty nuanced answer. I'll save that for another day. This post is already so long that nobody will read it LOL.
- Hope this helps, Jack
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Oh no, I did not say that this is a rule of thumb or that most do this. I'm just saying that the comment about pros using strings for a year likely is not true when many restring the same day having not even used the racquet.
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sundaypunch
Hall of Fame
fortun8son
Hall of Fame
I think that the mental aspect of the game is often underrated by the equipment-centric posters that frequent this site.
Racquets and strings are very important to those who care about that sort of thing.
Obviously, your nemesis does not. To him, they are just tools.
He's gotten used to using ordinary strings until they break.
He would probably resist modern innovations and, moreover, they'd likely damage his game.
I've seen this in other fields, too.
For example: Pete Townsend uses old school, heavy gauge strings that most modern guitarists would find unplayable.
That what his style was built upon and he sticks with it.
Racquets and strings are very important to those who care about that sort of thing.
Obviously, your nemesis does not. To him, they are just tools.
He's gotten used to using ordinary strings until they break.
He would probably resist modern innovations and, moreover, they'd likely damage his game.
I've seen this in other fields, too.
For example: Pete Townsend uses old school, heavy gauge strings that most modern guitarists would find unplayable.
That what his style was built upon and he sticks with it.
MikeHitsHard93
Hall of Fame
I play oftenly with 3.0s or lower. I have NEVER broken a string playing against one of them. The only time I break string is when I play against my 3.5-4.0 regular hitting partner. Our levels are about the same and we both bash from the baseline. It gets fun!
COPEY
Hall of Fame
fortun8son
Hall of Fame
I had to think about this one before writing.
If I was stringing for the other guy, I'd just give him what he's always used (as long as it isn't discontinued), or a reasonable facsimile at his usual tension...once a year.
If I was stringing for the other guy, I'd just give him what he's always used (as long as it isn't discontinued), or a reasonable facsimile at his usual tension...once a year.
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sansaephanh
Professional
Amen jack. I think i love you with my man parts.
As for argument 3, Let's just say that there are a million other factors restringing a resource consuming commodity.
EVEN IF WE COULD have instant (Add hot water and wait 5 mins for fully plump strings at a preferred tension!) gratification source of stringing and no more factors making it a hassle, people frequently restring so they could have the consistently (and subjectively) great to amazing feel they wanted from the strings that "didn't matter."
^run on sentence, but I'm tired and stupid by the nature in which I have grown.
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
thanks.
i can try to explain my position again in order to be more clear (regarding the highlighted parts):
when I play i recently learned to feel the change in strings tension, going dead, trampolined, etc. i can feel those changes and i can feel i have to adjust or be extra careful in order to keep the ball in or whatever.
but that's what i cannot accept. this is no excuse whatsoever.
if it's the level of play that makes the old guy handle his shots pretty much the same all the time, well then maybe i'm frustrated a bit
that's why i was wondering if besides the feel and fun of a fresh good stringjob is it really worth it? it's frustrating that i cannot adjust my game and start wondering about my strings, no?
about hanging out in the string forum: i mostly doing that when deciding on good reels to buy for a long period of time. other than that i totally don't care about it afterwards and just go and play.
about frequency of stringing: i think we could all say that after 6-8 hours or even less we would prefer a new string bed.
that makes me even more frustrated. it's too much money and time wasting, instead of just playing. is it not being spoiled? i totally prefer having a string for as long as possible and just play...
and please- i KNOW it's fun changing strings and experimenting. and i totally dig the FUN FACTOR of great strings. i'm not talking about that. it's just that since i started with poly hybrids the inevitable cycle of re-stringing became more apparent. so watching the old guy bagel me with my quality hybrid makes me mad
fortun8son
Hall of Fame
"You are correct to question, Grasshopper. It is not all as others would have you believe."- Master Po
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bad_call
Legend
I had to think about this one before writing.
If I was stringing for the other guy, I'd just give him what he's always used (as long as it isn't discontinued), or a reasonable facsimile at his usual tension...once a year.
appears that your time "sleeping in a hole in the road" has benefited your posting.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
Agreed........
Power Player
Bionic Poster
I never said that one time!! Lol..god some of you guys are hilarious.
I said if you play at the 4.5 level 6 hours a week you will most likely be dealing with some heavier pace and the chances of strings surviving an entire year are low. That is it. I never once mentioned win % or anything. How long have you been reading the english language for?
Power Player
Bionic Poster
rozroz, ill add this. If your game is not based on pace and spin to keep the ball in the lines, there is no reason to buy poly. If you are redirecting shots and basically playing a defensive placement style with finesse shots mixed in there, I am rather sure you could just use Syn gut and be fine. Do you have to restring that syn gut every 6 hours? No, just play it til it breaks if you want and enjoy.
Will that syn gut last an entire year? I have not seen it. I play with guys who play that style and their strings still break.
Will that syn gut last an entire year? I have not seen it. I play with guys who play that style and their strings still break.
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
i do play with pace spin and slice, so i benefit from poly.
.
besides, hybrid gets more quality in less price (2 decent reels)..
i could invest in a high priced multi but it will end pretty fast.
i guess i can break a full multi in 2 weeks
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anubis
Hall of Fame
Some folks just don't care about strings. They string their racquet with regular old POS syn gut once a year and they're done with it. They don't care about "feel", they aren't "connoisseurs" of strings, racquets and the tools of the trade. They just go out there and play tennis.
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
if that's good enough to stand against and defeat 4.5 players i truly envy them.
COPEY
Hall of Fame
And some of those folks play extremely well regardless - don't forget that part. I know several of them, and in fact, I used to be one of them.
Heeeeeey, you can take that to the thread in the Tips forum where they're talking about LOVING mikeler's pants size. :lol:
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
that's exactly my point. and just now i was playing (not HIM thank god) and felt my BHB7 trampoline on me... it DID change my game and i just can't control my shots. time to change AGAIN
mikeler
Moderator
What the H is going on today?
SVP
Semi-Pro
I'm a person of color born in the good ol' USA and I know that English is the stupidest language. No condenscencion meant by my post; I'm trying to understand the post.
mad dog1
G.O.A.T.
yeah, this 60 yr old flat hitter is a much better player than you. he's probably got better technique and way better timing which are probably the main reasons. therefore his peak potential is much higher than yours regardless of what kind of strings he uses.
for example, i'm sure andre agassi even at 60 years old can bagel everyone of us forever regardless of what string he has in his racquet because his technique and timing are just outta this world compared to mere mortal rec players like us.
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
you claim he has good technique.
i already said this guy never learned any technique. he has TERRIBLE technique. but he somehow gets the job done very good.
and he has 9 years more experience than me. and full of confidence. that's the differences. all this is obvious. i was referring to the strings mainly.
once i'll feel better to confront him again i'll video the match.
fortun8son
Hall of Fame
The strings are only part of it.
He's comfortable, not searching.
~IT'S ALL IN YOUR MIND~ Whooo!:twisted:
He's comfortable, not searching.
~IT'S ALL IN YOUR MIND~ Whooo!:twisted:
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
again.. the whole debate is how actually big is strings/performance ratio.
is it 10%?
that's what i would guess. even less.
if it was bigger than that, it's simply a paradox saying a guy would play a year on dry, no tension strings and still feel comfortable and precise with them.
only other option is either he talks nonsense and changes in less than a year, or that his performance goes a bit down as time goes by and he's too numb to feel it or consciously address it.
Logic Dude
New User
That's just it. Pointing out how he used come one instead of come on is quite simply petty. If you honestly can't understand what he is saying, you either have a very weak grasp on the English language or you are just looking for something to make fun of. Every one of his posts are completely readable, you just seem to want to point out every grammatical flaw.
It would be akin to me asking what you mean by ol'. It's obviously not proper grammar. What are you trying to say? I now have no idea what your post is about.
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
lol good one.
on top of that, he can easily check how many times i posted 'come on' spelled right to know it was just a one time typo.
fortun8son
Hall of Fame
Rozroz
How many sets did you get from that tangled reel that had to be cut up?
How many sets did you get from that tangled reel that had to be cut up?
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
wow, how did you remember that????
you crazy dog.
i got the same amount i think.. just cut it down to separate sets and then taped them back again to roll back onto the reel.
the problem is that cutting to exact 12m is an exaggeration cause you can usually use only 11m for a job.. so it's kind of wasting at least one stringjob all around.
actually i still use this reel cause i mix it with the BHB7.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
If I may step in....
SVP, to illustrate Logic Dude's point, with regard to those born in the United States, we're all persons of color. What do you mean?
Dang Rabbit, you beat me to the punch with your reply. I agree, we are all of some sort of color. I was going to make that post myself.
Also,I didn't get that with the " of color" remark and also the "English is the stupidest language" statement either.
How about the one language of just clicking noises and sounds. That one probably is at pretty much the top of my list, NOT English.
Also,I didn't get that with the " of color" remark and also the "English is the stupidest language" statement either.
How about the one language of just clicking noises and sounds. That one probably is at pretty much the top of my list, NOT English.
Muppet
Legend
I beg to differ. I am of Northern European descent, born in the good ol' USA. I personally have no color. (Just kidding, lol)
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LOL, I stand corrected.
D-money
Rookie
Sorry my post should've been written in a more sarcastic font.
fortun8son
Hall of Fame
Remember, they publicized the rule of you should restring as many times a year as you play in a week because people didn't restring that often. So for him, the restrining would be 3x per year instead of 1x per year.
It was pretty common with smaller headed rackets and tighter string patterns for even very good players to rarely break strings. SynGut doesn't die like poly and any performance degradation is very gradual, so players don't notice it.
Big spin on open string patterns is what breaks strings. Flat hitters, especially if they don't hit exceptionally hard don't break strings nearly as quickly. Flat hitters are not as dependent upon exceptional string performance in getting the maximum amount of spin.
For the old guy, it really doesn't make much difference what strings he uses.
It was pretty common with smaller headed rackets and tighter string patterns for even very good players to rarely break strings. SynGut doesn't die like poly and any performance degradation is very gradual, so players don't notice it.
Big spin on open string patterns is what breaks strings. Flat hitters, especially if they don't hit exceptionally hard don't break strings nearly as quickly. Flat hitters are not as dependent upon exceptional string performance in getting the maximum amount of spin.
For the old guy, it really doesn't make much difference what strings he uses.
SteveI
Legend
Hi,
I know many players that have very basic games. Short flat strokes.. play with underspin off the BH side. Flat serves.. but with great placement. These players almost never break a string.. might be playing with the wrong gripsize.. etc. These guys just go out and play tennis run like heck.. and figure out how to win as many points as possible. Strings are not important to their games. However if you have modern strokes.. play with spin and pace.. and use spin and pace to control your shots... yes strings, tension and the proper match to your frame is everything.
That is my take on it.
Depends... is the answer..
I would not worry about this guys gear... I would try to find out how to beat him. Study his game.. see how your weapons match his weaknesses... and vise versa. There are many ways to win matches.
Enjoy!!
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
Hi,
I know many players that have very basic games. Short flat strokes.. play with underspin off the BH side. Flat serves.. but with great placement. These players almost never break a string.. might be playing with the wrong gripsize.. etc. These guys just go out and play tennis run like heck.. and figure out how to win as many points as possible. Strings are not important to their games. However if you have modern strokes.. play with spin and pace.. and use spin and pace to control your shots... yes strings, tension and the proper match to your frame is everything.
That is my take on it.
Depends... is the answer..
I would not worry about this guys gear... I would try to find out how to beat him. Study his game.. see how your weapons match his weaknesses... and vise versa. There are many ways to win matches.
Enjoy!!
i agree on your theory too. that's basically what i thought to begin with but wanted to clear my head.
'flatters' are hard for me. hate those low bouncing DTL's i cannot reach.
i must do some serious homework before i go at him again.
only thing that worked was breaking his backhand and hit deep ALL THE TIME. once those don't work he just dismantles my game.
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
thanks. yes that pretty much summons it up.
SteveI
Legend
Hi,
You need to get the ball up as much as possible to the BH side and attack. Do not not let him have the middle of the court. Good luck.... Read Brad Gilberts Winnng Ugly....great stuff for taking a game apart!!
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
you telepathic ******* you!
right in the middle of reading it. one of my best bay deals ever (1$)
