2012 Year End Ratings

Topaz

Topaz

Legend
tennis_tater said:
I think it depends on the what leagues the player played in. If the player played in Mixed Only and played at the national championships during November, I would think that the mixed matches during the month of November count for that player's ratings.
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I haven't heard that.

If a person only plays mixed, then they end up with a mixed exclusive rating.

If a person plays adult and mixed, then only their adult matches count toward their rating.

Every place holds their leagues at different times, as well. The cutoff is the same regardless of who is playing what...again, from my understanding.
 
Topaz

Topaz

Legend
Also, last year they had an announcement on Tennislink by now...kind of odd that there hasn't been one yet. Unless we are all counting on it being earlier than it is actually going to happen this time.
 
ncgator

ncgator

Rookie
nctennis (North Carolina USTA site) has a statement that "2012 Year End Ratings are schedule to be published on TennisLink AFTER Thanksgiving." I am expecting the year end ratings to come out late Monday afternoon...
 
T

tennis_tater

Semi-Pro
Topaz said:
I haven't heard that.

If a person only plays mixed, then they end up with a mixed exclusive rating.

If a person plays adult and mixed, then only their adult matches count toward their rating.

Every place holds their leagues at different times, as well. The cutoff is the same regardless of who is playing what...again, from my understanding.
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If someone plays mixed only and is going to get a mixed only rating, why wouldn't the USTA want the results of all the players who may have played mixed only going through nationals?
 
T

tennis_tater

Semi-Pro
tennis_tater said:
If someone plays mixed only and is going to get a mixed only rating, why wouldn't the USTA want the results of all the players who may have played mixed only going through nationals?
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And is it just a coincidence that the new ratings are release a week after the mixed nationals have concluded, and not a week after the men's/women's adult leagues national championships have finished?
 
schmke

schmke

Legend
tennis_tater said:
And is it just a coincidence that the new ratings are release a week after the mixed nationals have concluded, and not a week after the men's/women's adult leagues national championships have finished?
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It may be that they keep the window open for players that will receive a mixed exclusive rating until mixed nationals are complete, but for gender specific ratings still close it on 10/31. If anyone knows for sure, I'd love to hear.
 
Topaz

Topaz

Legend
downs_chris said:
i don't think any mixed counts....right?

if i'm not bumped, then there's something wrong with the system...haha
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Correct, just picking on your new favorite league.

Weren't you quite happy to not be bumped last year? Tired of sandbagging??? ;)

tennis_tater said:
If someone plays mixed only and is going to get a mixed only rating, why wouldn't the USTA want the results of all the players who may have played mixed only going through nationals?
Click to expand...

tennis_tater said:
And is it just a coincidence that the new ratings are release a week after the mixed nationals have concluded, and not a week after the men's/women's adult leagues national championships have finished?
Click to expand...

This is actually pretty common knowledge. If you only play mixed, you get a mixed exclusive rating. That will include all mixed matches, including nationals, so you have to have nationals first.

Rating are released after *all* nationals are completed. Adult, mixed, senior.
 
jonnyjack

jonnyjack

Semi-Pro
On the Norcal 40+ leagues, they have this message:

Player Registration will not open until New 2012 Year End Ratings are posted. We hope this will happen prior to December 1st.
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T

tennis_tater

Semi-Pro
Topaz said:
Also, last year they had an announcement on Tennislink by now...kind of odd that there hasn't been one yet. Unless we are all counting on it being earlier than it is actually going to happen this time.
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Seems like the ratings have come out the Monday after Thanksgiving each year for the past three or four years. I really don't remember them coming out much later...but as you noted, there's usually a notice posted on Tennis Link 5-7 days in advance telling you when ratings will be published. That being said, I would guess they aren't coming out tomorrow and will likely come out sometime next week.
 
Cindysphinx

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
So far, nothing.

This is a problem. As a captain, I need to get my team registered by Dec. 14. I don't want to do that until I know who won't be a 4.0 next year.
 
njsigman

njsigman

Rookie
The Tennis Link website seems to be crawling today. Not sure if it is because they are putting the ratings in or just traffic to the site in anticipation...

The USTA must love the idea of all of its league members awaiting the release of the ratings. Like waving candy in front of a baby..

Some transparency to the process and some definitive dates would be nice but I'm not holding my breath..
 
schmke

schmke

Legend
njsigman said:
The Tennis Link website seems to be crawling today. Not sure if it is because they are putting the ratings in or just traffic to the site in anticipation...

The USTA must love the idea of all of its league members awaiting the release of the ratings. Like waving candy in front of a baby..

Some transparency to the process and some definitive dates would be nice but I'm not holding my breath..
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I'm sure it is traffic to the site. I've seen traffic to my blog entries about year-end ratings spike in the past few days so there is definitely interest out there and I'm sure a lot of those folks are hitting TennisLink too.

FWIW, I think they've usually had the new ratings posted by 5pm on the day they are released so we may be waiting another nearly 8 hours, but they've also put a notice up about the ratings coming out so in the absence of that this year, I'm not holding my breath that we'll see them today.
 
P

Playtennis

New User
I also remember a flag on site saying when ratings will be out. Maybe hey are intentionally not doing it sine site was jammed last year
 
J

JLyon

Hall of Fame
no bump ups in 4.5 in AR and apparently going 0-16 over a 3 year period is not enough to get bumped down. Think I am through with this crap computer ratings the USTA tosses out after 15 years of league. Tired of losing badly at some computer level while others go undefeated and never get bumped. Just pathetic.
4.5 player goes 14-0 4.5 and 0-3 5.0= no bump up
4.5 player goes 9-2, beating a DQ'ed 5.0 = no bump up
 
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Chivo

New User
I got bumped up, but still have 2 league matches this week at my old level..am I still allowed to play out the season?
 
schmke

schmke

Legend
JLyon said:
no bump ups in 4.5 in AR and apparently going 0-16 over a 3 year period is not enough to get bumped down. Think I am through with this crap computer ratings the USTA tosses out after 15 years of league. Tired of losing badly at some computer level while others go undefeated and never get bumped. Just pathetic.
4.5 player goes 14-0 4.5 and 0-3 5.0= no bump up
4.5 player goes 9-2, beating a DQ'ed 5.0 = no bump up
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For better or worse, the calculations are based on more than record, in fact your record specifically isn't an input to the algorithm, it is only based on games won/lost and the then-current ratings of the players involved in the match. So if you play weak opponents or win close matches, it is entirely possible to have an overwhelming winning record but not be bumped up. And the converse is true too.

But I'd be interested in taking a closer look at some specifics. If you don't mind, contact me at computerratings@techrunning.com to let me know more details about the players involved so I can see if I can explain it.
 
G

gmatheis

Hall of Fame
Chivo said:
I got bumped up, but still have 2 league matches this week at my old level..am I still allowed to play out the season?
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The only time new ratings prevent you from playing that I know of is if you advance to a combo sectional that takes place in the new year AND you got double bumped you now have to play at the middle level

i.e. you were playing as a 3.0 (like on a 7.5 combo team)but got bumped to 4.0 you would have to play in the sectionals as a 3.5
 
J

JLyon

Hall of Fame
schmke said:
For better or worse, the calculations are based on more than record, in fact your record specifically isn't an input to the algorithm, it is only based on games won/lost and the then-current ratings of the players involved in the match. So if you play weak opponents or win close matches, it is entirely possible to have an overwhelming winning record but not be bumped up. And the converse is true too.

But I'd be interested in taking a closer look at some specifics. If you don't mind, contact me at computerratings@techrunning.com to let me know more details about the players involved so I can see if I can explain it.
Click to expand...
sent you an email
 
D

dizzlmcwizzl

Hall of Fame
It looks like the total bump up was pretty significant here (middle states). With over 10% of all players getting moved up. and more than 7% of 3.5+ players getting moved up. Compare this to last year where less than 2% were moved up and this is a much more significant change.

Some movement either way 13.50%
Moved Up 10.68%
Moved Down 2.82%
Double Bump UP 2
 
D

dizzlmcwizzl

Hall of Fame
Well, sir I have never "bagged it" ... but it is true that I am now the worst of 4.5 instead of a good 4.0.

As far as my numbers are concerned ... I saved a copy of everyone ratings from the website on Sunday so that I could perform a little comparison when the new ratings came out. Then it was just some excel "magic" ....
 
Cindysphinx

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
On my 18-person combo team, only one lady moved up.

In the ladies 3.5/4.0 universe in my little corner of mid-Atlantic, there were a lot of people who didn't move up or who moved down. Very few move-ups, even of ladies who did well at nationals.
 
D

dizzlmcwizzl

Hall of Fame
The word on the street last year was that because our section representatives did so poorly at nationals in 4.0 and 3.5 that the section coordinator held us back a little ... which may explain why we had such a dramatic set of bumps this year.
 
tennismonkey

tennismonkey

Semi-Pro
dizzlmcwizzl said:
Well, sir I have never "bagged it" ... but it is true that I am now the worst of 4.5 instead of a good 4.0.

As far as my numbers are concerned ... I saved a copy of everyone ratings from the website on Sunday so that I could perform a little comparison when the new ratings came out. Then it was just some excel "magic" ....
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lol. awesome stuff dizzl!

6717c258-d288-4b9c-aba3-afcdbd37f887.jpg
 
anubis

anubis

Hall of Fame
They're being stingy with bump ups in my area (mid-atlantic). No one on any of my teams (3 in total) got bumped (that's around two dozen individuals). I didn't get bumped either, even though my record is 11 wins and 4 losses, and I made it into the semis in a tournament. I only know of one person who got bumped, and my record was significantly better than his (not to mention I beat him in the regular season).
 
G

gmatheis

Hall of Fame
anubis said:
They're being stingy with bump ups in my area (mid-atlantic). No one on any of my teams (3 in total) got bumped (that's around two dozen individuals). I didn't get bumped either, even though my record is 11 wins and 4 losses, and I made it into the semis in a tournament. I only know of one person who got bumped, and my record was significantly better than his (not to mention I beat him in the regular season).
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Some areas are different but here in SC I'm pretty sure that if you play spring league then nothing else counts towards your rating.

No tourneys, combo, mixed, only spring league.

So did you go 11-4 in spring league?

my buddy who was 18-2 in spring (played in 2 cities and went 12-1, and 6-1) got bumped to 4.5 B and this was his first year at 4.0
 
D

dizzlmcwizzl

Hall of Fame
anubis said:
They're being stingy with bump ups in my area (mid-atlantic). No one on any of my teams (3 in total) got bumped (that's around two dozen individuals). I didn't get bumped either, even though my record is 11 wins and 4 losses, and I made it into the semis in a tournament. I only know of one person who got bumped, and my record was significantly better than his (not to mention I beat him in the regular season).
Click to expand...

I will say that I think there is some "dragging" by the USTA algorithm. By that I mean that during the 2011 season I had an outstanding season eventually going 26-3 and 7-2 in districts and sectionals but I did not get the bump. This year (2012) I had a good season but no where as good as last year and did get the bump.

I think that because I had played a lot of league matches before the 2011 season that getting bumped was a two year process ... first I had to raise my rating at the beginning of the season high enough that having a good season the following year would earn me the bump.
 
pennc94

pennc94

Professional
gmatheis said:
Some areas are different but here in SC I'm pretty sure that if you play spring league then nothing else counts towards your rating.

No tourneys, combo, mixed, only spring league.

So did you go 11-4 in spring league?

my buddy who was 18-2 in spring (played in 2 cities and went 12-1, and 6-1) got bumped to 4.5 B and this was his first year at 4.0
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You are focusing too much on win/loss record. It all depends on the quality of your opponent and the score. I have gone 15-2 each of the last 2 seasons at 4.5 and am still (rightfully) a 4.5.
 
OrangePower

OrangePower

Legend
Quick scan of players I know in Norcal... does not seem to be much movement this year.

Looking mainly at 4.5s, and also a few 4.0s that I had expected to be bumped up (but which mostly in fact did not get bumped up).
 
G

gmatheis

Hall of Fame
pennc94 said:
You are focusing too much on win/loss record. It all depends on the quality of your opponent and the score. I have gone 15-2 each of the last 2 seasons at 4.5 and am still (rightfully) a 4.5.
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I was just pointing out that his record was not that dominant, but another person who was more dominant did get bumped ... meaning there is some logic to the bumping/or lack thereof.

Without knowing his scores and opponents you cant go into more detail about why he wasn't bumped and others were now can you.
 
anubis

anubis

Hall of Fame
gmatheis said:
Some areas are different but here in SC I'm pretty sure that if you play spring league then nothing else counts towards your rating.

No tourneys, combo, mixed, only spring league.

So did you go 11-4 in spring league?

my buddy who was 18-2 in spring (played in 2 cities and went 12-1, and 6-1) got bumped to 4.5 B and this was his first year at 4.0
Click to expand...

I understand, and am not surprised if that's the case. My spring league is 6 wins, 2 losses. The person to which I was mentioning before had 4 wins and 4 losses in the spring league, and he got bumped. And, the people he lost to, I defeated in the spring season, and I also defeated him as well in the same season.

Very strange.
 
J

JLyon

Hall of Fame
gmatheis said:
He has a mixed only rating because he only played 2 matches in spring it looks like so he didnt establish a rating there.
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He appears to have been a recent bump to 4.5, but when you look at his mixed results there is nothing there that would jump out and scream bump.
 
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