What is with the nostalgia over Serve and volley?

steenkash

steenkash

Hall of Fame
Whenever I talk to the older generation tennis fans, they always like to talk about the 'good old days' of tennis, where the points were quick and the courts were much faster. In all honestly rather than seeing a couple of players with repetitive tactics, I much prefer the variation of the modern game. Thank god for players like Ivan Lendl for starting this new phase of baseline players, because I want to see my money's worth and see a long game of tennis with variation, rather than a quick exchange and goodbye (how it is with all my girlfriends).
 
A

Anaconda

Hall of Fame
steenkash said:
Whenever I talk to the older generation tennis fans, they always like to talk about the 'good old days' of tennis, where the points were quick and the courts were much faster. In all honestly rather than seeing a couple of players with repetitive tactics, I much prefer the variation of the modern game. Thank god for players like Ivan Lendl for starting this new phase of baseline players, because I want to see my money's worth and see a long game of tennis with variation, rather than a quick exchange and goodbye (how it is with all my girlfriends).
Click to expand...

There is no variation nowadays.


/thread.
 
librarysteg

librarysteg

Hall of Fame
Edberg was my first favorite player so I have a big soft spot for serve and volley. I don't prefer it over other styles of play, though. Now that serve and volley seems so rare, I do enjoy catching matches with a lot of serve and volley because it feels like a novelty. I wish so many players didn't seem downright afraid to come to the net once in a while. It's a good trick to have in their bag even if they don't use it regularly.
 
steenkash

steenkash

Hall of Fame
librarysteg said:
Edberg was my first favorite player so I have a big soft spot for serve and volley. I don't prefer it over other styles of play, though. Now that serve and volley seems so rare, I do enjoy catching matches with a lot of serve and volley because it feels like a novelty. I wish so many players didn't seem downright afraid to come to the net once in a while. It's a good trick to have in their bag even if they don't use it regularly.
Click to expand...

I think players like Tsonga and Djocovic do go for the old 'chip and charge' and 'serve and volley' at times. Its much more interesting when they mix it up.
 
T

Tammo

Banned
Of there was a tourney of 90% s and v everyone would get tired of it and complain. That's just the way TTW is
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
steenkash said:
I think players like Tsonga and Djocovic do go for the old 'chip and charge' and 'serve and volley' at times. Its much more interesting when they mix it up.
Click to expand...

What are we calling "at times?" Like once every 1000 points (or more?)

As for the nostalgia, it's exactly that. Nostalgia. It's hard to combat against with logical reasoning because people are often in denial. See 90's clay for a good example of this.

Nostalgia often causes people to overrate things simply because they liked said things when they were children, and didn't know any better.
 
steenkash

steenkash

Hall of Fame
Steve0904 said:
What are we calling "at times?" Like once every 1000 points (or more?)

As for the nostalgia, it's exactly that. Nostalgia. It's hard to combat against with logical reasoning because people are often in denial. See 90's clay for a good example of this.

Nostalgia often causes people to overrate things simply because they liked said things when they were children, and didn't know any better.
Click to expand...


Your argument seems balanced, may I take it you don't favor just one style of play?
 
estigma2001

estigma2001

Hall of Fame
Edgerg almost won RG with his style, Rafter was amazing i remember tryin to emulate his playing! and the last one that i like was Dent!
 
S

Say Chi Sin Lo

G.O.A.T.
steenkash said:
Whenever I talk to the older generation tennis fans, they always like to talk about the 'good old days' of tennis, where the points were quick and the courts were much faster. In all honestly rather than seeing a couple of players with repetitive tactics, I much prefer the variation of the modern game. Thank god for players like Ivan Lendl for starting this new phase of baseline players, because I want to see my money's worth and see a long game of tennis with variation, rather than a quick exchange and goodbye (how it is with all my girlfriends).
Click to expand...

It's called efficiency kid.
 
librarysteg

librarysteg

Hall of Fame
mattennis said:
Because when I watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u9Mx1YEuUk I come....

In former eras you could see all kind of styles, points, surfaces....there was a huge variation of techniques, strategies...

Now you basically see only one thing, again and again and again and again and again....everywhere, in every tournament.
Click to expand...

Great stuff. It's always fun when a S&V is returning serve from a baseliner...that's sort of the best of both worlds right there. You get a few good baseline rallies and then the S&V finds their opening to come into the net and end the point. There's nothing boring about that to me.
 
M

mattennis

Hall of Fame
With players like Stich, Becker, Sampras, Philippoussis,....you could see all kind of points, because they used to serve-and-volley on first serves but they stayed back on second serve and played baseline rallies.

Pioline, Ferreira, Washington...were other all-court players (more or less baseliners, but they could serve-and-volley properly when needed and they used to mix it up depending on surface and rival).

For example, here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED6zx87SeoU and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyxqCNPBDdg only about 25% of points are serve-and-volley (the points where Sampras was serving and it was a first serve), the other 75% of points were baseline rallies that could end with one of the players at the net after some shots, or mainly it could end with a baseline winner shot.

Today, when you watch Djokovic-Murray, Murray-Nadal or Djokovic-Nadal you watch the same point again and again and again and again....two players ripping powerful top-spin shots from the baseline until one of them fails.
 
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xan

xan

Hall of Fame
Steve0904 said:
What are we calling "at times?" Like once every 1000 points (or more?)
Click to expand...
well djokovic does it when he feels he needs to change something in his game. when he is down 3 break points or something like that. sadly its not a part of his usual game and uses it more of as a surprise tactic.
 
V

Vrad

Professional
As others have pointed out, it's not really nostalgia for S&V as such, but nostalgia for an era when there was far more variety than in today's game.
 
vive le beau jeu !

vive le beau jeu !

Talk Tennis Guru
steenkash said:
Whenever I talk to the older generation tennis fans, they always like to talk about the 'good old days' of tennis, where the points were quick and the courts were much faster. In all honestly rather than seeing a couple of players with repetitive tactics, I much prefer the variation of the modern game. Thank god for players like Ivan Lendl for starting this new phase of baseline players, because I want to see my money's worth and see a long game of tennis with variation, rather than a quick exchange and goodbye (how it is with all my girlfriends).
Click to expand...
laughing-seal-rofl.jpeg
 
Doubles

Doubles

Legend
A match between two guys who won't leave the baseline is boring, just as a match between two guys who do nothing but s and v would be too. Variety is what makes a match interesting.
 
M

mattennis

Hall of Fame
And it is funny how those who did NOT watch tennis in the 90s think that it was mainly serve-and-volley style.

Here, one year later, another M-1000 final between nº1 Sampras and nº2 Agassi on slow hard courts of Indian Wells.

S n V were less than 25% of total points. The majority of points were excellent baseline rallies (with flatter shots than today, that's why their shots don't seem to slow down too much through their trajectory, compared to today's mega-top-spin shots).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-9QRYzaziM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEbjgzQJQl8
 
U

ultradr

Legend
steenkash said:
Whenever I talk to the older generation tennis fans, they always like to talk about the 'good old days' of tennis, where the points were quick and the courts were much faster. In all honestly rather than seeing a couple of players with repetitive tactics, I much prefer the variation of the modern game. Thank god for players like Ivan Lendl for starting this new phase of baseline players, because I want to see my money's worth and see a long game of tennis with variation, rather than a quick exchange and goodbye (how it is with all my girlfriends).
Click to expand...

What variations ? It's all medium-slow tennis with same type of players.
All polyester induced top spin baseline game on slow bouncy surfaces.

We had quick exchanges on grass and indoor, long rallies on long clay season,
combination of both on quick and medium speed hard courts.

70s - 90s, that's how tennis meant to be played, IMHO.
 
M

Mick3391

Professional
steenkash said:
Whenever I talk to the older generation tennis fans, they always like to talk about the 'good old days' of tennis, where the points were quick and the courts were much faster. In all honestly rather than seeing a couple of players with repetitive tactics, I much prefer the variation of the modern game. Thank god for players like Ivan Lendl for starting this new phase of baseline players, because I want to see my money's worth and see a long game of tennis with variation, rather than a quick exchange and goodbye (how it is with all my girlfriends).
Click to expand...

It would be nice to see a good combination. I get bored with fetchers getting into 30 hit rallies, but likewise bored with serve, win, serve, win. I like both, S&V is more exciting, but well I like the blend, like Conners/Laver, can't get more exciting than that!

My son and I were bored and turned off final of AO after two sets, likewise were bored with the 2001 Sampras/Fed match.
 
Fusker

Fusker

Rookie
Agree with the comments about the variation. It's not that I wish to see a bunch of serve 'n volleyers now, it's that the style has just about disappeared and the variety has been lessened as a result. I'd think the same thing if for whatever reason everybody played SnV and nobody baselined anymore.

But a classic serve and volleyer matched up against an aggressive baseliner is tennis' version of the mongoose and cobra. That is what I miss about the loss of the serve and volley game.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
mattennis said:
Now you basically see only one thing, again and again and again and again and again....everywhere, in every tournament.
Click to expand...

Yes....dreary baseline games from a legion of players who are either afraid and/or ignorant of the net....standing there all day long...........
 
Polvorin

Polvorin

Professional
Anaconda said:
There is no variation nowadays.


/thread.
Click to expand...

This.

The top players play exactly the same game on every surface now. At Wimbledon S&V specialists *used to* do well even if they were lower ranked players. Now coming to the net is actually taking a big risk, even on the grass.
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
steenkash said:
... I much prefer the variation of the modern game...
Click to expand...

You can't be serious!. There was so much more variety back in the day then we see now in the "modern game". There were plenty of baseline exchanges as well as S&V before racket technology (and court surface speed changes) screwed up the game. Of the modern players, Federer is one who still has a great deal of variety in his game. Along with his smooth footwork, his variety helps to keep him relatively injury-free.

This week I have been watching some ATP doubles up close (at the SAP Open). It is much more interesting that watching 2 modern players slug it out from the baseline.
 
T

Tiebreak100

New User
I agree, old school tennis is vastly overrated. Growing up in the Sampras era was not enjoyable. Repetitive and too quick - a snorefest.
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Tiebreak100 said:
I agree, old school tennis is vastly overrated. Growing up in the Sampras era was not enjoyable. Repetitive and too quick - a snorefest.
Click to expand...

Wrong era. This is not the time period that many are nostalgic for. In the 1990s the courts were still fast and the racket technology had brought so much power into the men's game that rallies (on fast surfaces) were very short. This is why there was a push for slower surface since the late 90s.
 
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C

CCNM

Hall of Fame
I could watch Spanish cutie Arantxa Sanchez Vicario's matches all day long-I love how she seemed to cover the entire court. But I must say with the long rallies there's always the excitement of "Is he going to return the ball? Is he....."
 
S

Say Chi Sin Lo

G.O.A.T.
Tiebreak100 said:
I agree, old school tennis is vastly overrated. Growing up in the Sampras era was not enjoyable. Repetitive and too quick - a snorefest.
Click to expand...

At least it was a power nap with the "Sampras Era snorefest."

I woke up from the Nadal/Djokovic AO 12 Finals, Djokovoic/Murray AO 12 Semifinals, and Djokovic/Murray USO 12 finals thinking it was the dawn of a new day.
 
pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Vrad said:
As others have pointed out, it's not really nostalgia for S&V as such, but nostalgia for an era when there was far more variety than in today's game.
Click to expand...

I agree. Frankly too much serve and volley as well as too much baseline bashing is boring either way.

Here's an example of variety. Wilander and Mecir were both known for their great baseline game but watch the variety in their play here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2bzlj4ypvw

Here's another example in the 1984 US Open semi with McEnroe and Connors. Different styles but both players show amazing variety. McEnroe is serve and volleying but he shows an incredible array of shots. Connors also shows his great versatility.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TKUe_OA2ro

It's nice to see the contrast.
 
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Rhino

Rhino

Legend
I watched Ivanisevic vs Henman 2001 Wimbledon semifinal the other day. It's true, although it was a dramatic match, with Henman getting to within three points of a Wimbledon final, I thought the points were a bit repetitive and boring compared to today's point construction. Although I used to love it at the time.
 
S

Say Chi Sin Lo

G.O.A.T.
Rhino said:
I watched Ivanisevic vs Henman 2001 Wimbledon semifinal the other day. It's true, although it was a dramatic match, with Henman getting to within three points of a Wimbledon final, I thought the points were a bit repetitive and boring compared to today's point construction. Although I used to love it at the time.
Click to expand...

What point construction of today's game do you speak of? I don't see it.
 
P

Paul Murphy

Hall of Fame
steenkash said:
Whenever I talk to the older generation tennis fans, they always like to talk about the 'good old days' of tennis, where the points were quick and the courts were much faster. In all honestly rather than seeing a couple of players with repetitive tactics, I much prefer the variation of the modern game. Thank god for players like Ivan Lendl for starting this new phase of baseline players, because I want to see my money's worth and see a long game of tennis with variation, rather than a quick exchange and goodbye (how it is with all my girlfriends).
Click to expand...

Where is the variation in the modern game?
My favourtite tennis era was the 1980s - back then we had great S/V exponents like Mc, Edberg and Becker coming up against great baseliners like Lendl, Connors etc.
The contrast in styles is what made tennis so interesting.
It was great to see if Lendl could find a way past (or over) McEnroe for instance.
Nowdays, it's all the same - wasn't that AO final boring enough?
 
A

always_crosscourt

Banned
I'm with the OP - serve and volley is the most boring style ever. Also it requires no real thought.

As grinding and protracted as the endless baseline rallies of the modern era is - at least the smarter players have to think on their feet about how they're going to get the upper hand in a rally by hitting a couple of forcing shots and then driving home the winner. Sometimes you see a point getting worked and it's fun to watch. Other times they just hit CC until one of them dies.

With serve-and-volley there is hardly any thought because your tactics are mapped out before you even start the point.

3-shot rallies (and even worse, aces) are incredibly boring. At most you're going to see big serve, easy put away volley. Repeat hundreds of times. Where's the fun in that?
 
S

slowfox

Professional
pc1 said:
I agree. Frankly too much serve and volley as well as too much baseline bashing is boring either way.

Here's an example of variety. Wilander and Mecir were both known for their great baseline game but watch the variety in their play here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2bzlj4ypvw

Here's another example in the 1984 US Open semi with McEnroe and Connors. Different styles but both players show amazing variety. McEnroe is serve and volleying but he shows an incredible array of shots. Connors also shows his great versatility.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TKUe_OA2ro

It's nice to see the contrast.
Click to expand...

Sometimes I feel I'm stuck in the 80s, but with the above clips it's not necessarily such a bad thing. That's fun tennis to watch..!
 
Z

zam88

Professional
At some point if fast tennis is boring, and baseline bashing is boring... then what's interesting or good?

is any of it good?

Maybe tennis sucks?

As i kid i'd watch sampras matches and think to myself that the serve in tennis was too powerful and made the matches horrible.... but i also only watched wimbledon every year because it was always on around 4th of july and was on during the day.

But now matches like the 2012 AO final which is considered a great match was immensely boring to me.... and the AO final this year couldn't hold my attention either.

Frankly.. i don't think any sporting event should go much over 3 hours.... i was even tiring of the 2009 Wimbledon with 2 of my favorite players... and of 2008 Wimbledon even though the match was ridiculously tense and high quality.

I am impressed with the players' focus. I wouldn't want to do a highly physical and mental job for 3-6 hours consecutively with very few breaks.
 
S

Sid_Vicious

G.O.A.T.
I think Serve and Volley is probably the most physically brutal style of tennis if you don't have an overpowering serve. I don't see how Patrick Rafter spent less energy than Nadal/Djokovic constantly approaching the net and throwing his body left and right to catch passing shots.
 
obsessedtennisfandisorder

obsessedtennisfandisorder

Professional
zam88 said:
At some point if fast tennis is boring, and baseline bashing is boring... then what's interesting or good?

is any of it good?

Maybe tennis sucks?

As i kid i'd watch sampras matches and think to myself that the serve in tennis was too powerful and made the matches horrible.... but i also only watched wimbledon every year because it was always on around 4th of july and was on during the day.

But now matches like the 2012 AO final which is considered a great match was immensely boring to me.... and the AO final this year couldn't hold my attention either.

Frankly.. i don't think any sporting event should go much over 3 hours.... i was even tiring of the 2009 Wimbledon with 2 of my favorite players... and of 2008 Wimbledon even though the match was ridiculously tense and high quality.

I am impressed with the players' focus. I wouldn't want to do a highly physical and mental job for 3-6 hours consecutively with very few breaks.
Click to expand...

some people are so clueless.
"no sporting event should go more than 3 hours" = LOL
is this what society is coming to with instant gratification then that's sad.
sport should be what it is....irrelevan tof what monetary baggage there is.
why tennis moved beyond wooden racquets is beyond me.
some dude called Head couldn't handle the fact he was a hacker who couldn't volley and play tennis to save himself so he played God...very sad.

the real point is a great serve can be returned if you stand further back.
but then if you did that...that would lead to easier volleys.
It's up to the returner to solve the problem

all this complaining about mid90's big/serve volley is all wrong.
chang/courier/agassi/rios were all doing well most of the year..

when rod laver was asked about how great fed was at WImBY 2009...
laver stated "well he keeps it in the court, doesn't he?"
good on you laver...real double meanings with that comment.
 
Feather

Feather

Legend
librarysteg said:
My childhood favorite too...we must be around the same age. I posted this point of Edberg's in a thread yesterday http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raZ-ltWuS9I. It shows that you still get some amazing baseline rallies/long points when watching a serve and volleyer.
Click to expand...

I saw that video when you posted, since it's about my God, Edberg

I just love him. He is my all time favorite. Despite being a Federer fanboy these days, I am not cent percent sure whom I like more. You don't forget your childhood heroes, do you?

S & V is my favorite form of play. I wish the technology has not advanced, the courts haven't slowed down, so that we can see more of S & V. S & V is pure heaven for me..

Age, lol, I don't know, we could be of same age. Nice to see a fellow Edberg fan
 
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J

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
It's not about Serve and Volley per se, as well as about VARIETY. I love a guy that can play insane defence one point, than serve and volley on the next. Or one guy that attacks the net all the time and the other scraping and grinding, and passing. It's about different styles that can be rewarded.
 
Minion

Minion

Hall of Fame
Tis one reason i love watching Llodra play - he varies his game beautifully:) It's always exciting to watch him. Sometimes you can almost see the surprise on todays baseliners when he plays them and brings his S&V game. They're probably wondering if they are allowed to ask the umpire: "Can he do that?":)

But sadly, todays tennis is mostly, as previously stated: bashing the ball as hard as possible from the baseline until someone makes a mistake - not all that great to watch:-? the late 80's and 90's tennis was the most exciting tennis era for me! Wilander, Cash, Edberg, Sampras, Lendl, LaConte etc... all legends!!!
 
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