Dedans Penthouse
Legend
Fed's got the GS record and a broader range of titles while Nadal's got the h2h by a wide margin. So who's the GOAT, or should we wait until they're both done playing?
GOAT: Federer or Nadal?
- Thread starter Dedans Penthouse
- Start date
Tennis_Hands
Banned
I am torn between two answers.
1) It is a amazing
2) Connors in 5
What do you think?
1) It is a amazing
2) Connors in 5
What do you think?
forzamilan90
Legend
AO: Federer, Agassi, Djokovic
FO: Nadal
W: Federer, Sampras
USO: Federer, Sampras, Connors
tough choice, brother
FO: Nadal
W: Federer, Sampras
USO: Federer, Sampras, Connors
tough choice, brother
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
Haha, you got me - well played.
fednad
Hall of Fame
GOAT was one that my grandmother had years back.
It had big horns and could take 360 degree turn at one position.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
2000 posts are you're still yet to comprehend that the head to head doesn't matter. Whole achievements matter such as winning majors or holding the #1 ranking.
If you disagree please explain why Nadals has a 0-0 h2h with Sampras and Federer a 0-0 h2h with Laver.
How can any of them possibly be GOAT if they have only a 50% record against different-era candidates?
17-12 and 302-102 are the only h2h stats that really matter here.
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Dedans Penthouse
Legend
Spot on kanamit! We need many more of these GOAT threads.
There you have it folks. Fed and put it to bed.
Were yuo durnk or stnoned when yuo psoted taht??
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
I think this is an excellent thread.
Personally, I think if any of these can stake a serious claim currently to being the best ever, it's Roger. Nadal is now firmly in the top 10 maybe even 5 of the Open Era and in 2 or 3 years we may see him as being a greater player than Roger Federer.
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Connors in 5 is the is a amazing right answer out of da the 2 oplions options.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
We'll answer that question after they both retire.
Duncan Bell
Hall of Fame
Well, Nadal's won more Monte Carlo's so..I guess Nadal?
Sorana fan
Banned
Best thread ever
underground
G.O.A.T.
1-8-2-1
4-1-7-5
4-1-7-5
Povl Carstensen
Legend
That is a pretty convincing way to look at it.
Murrayfan31
Hall of Fame
Djokovic>Nadal>Federer
Why did you have to bring your death into all this ?
Goat only matters while you're alive.
Some dead dude probably thinks Bill Tilden or someone was the GOAT.
Someday every poster on here will be dead and then some dude might rip off 4 consecutive CYGS's and render the entire discussion moot.
mind.blown.
heftylefty
Hall of Fame
Works for me. Any Questions?
Dear Djordje
Rookie
I really feel it! This is the thread that will finally end the debate of who the true GOAT is.
rosewallGOAT
Banned
I probably wouldnt have either top 3 with Gonzales, Laver, and Rosewall. Probably they are 4th and 5th right behind them with Federer 4th just ahead of Nadal in 5th for now.
pds999
Hall of Fame
One thing is absolutely for sure: Djokovic is not in the equation at all, not even close. He may come to be in time, but it is a bit of an insult to Nadal and Federer to include him right now. 6 slams and an inferior H2H against either. In fact, take 2011 out of the equation (which let's be fair Djok hasn't looked like repeating since) and he is even further off. If you are including Djokovic then you may as well be including Wilander and Edberg.
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Murrayfan31
Hall of Fame
Djokovic has many more slams in him. And he just like Federer wins many RG's if it wasn't for Nadal.
One thing is absolutely for sure: Nadal is not in the equation at all, not even close. He may come to be in time, but it is a bit of an insult to Sampras and Federer to include him right now. 12 slams and inferior weeks at #1 and YE#1's. In fact, take 2010 out of the equation (which let's be fair Nad hasn't looked like repeating since) and he is even further off. If you are including Nadal then you may as well be including Laver, Borg, McEnroe, Connors, and Agassi.
RF20Lennon
Legend
As of now Fed but it will be definitive once they both retire.
Rosol > Nadal > Federer > Djokovic
Or
Djokovic > Murray > Federer
It means Rosol is GOAT
NikeWilson
Semi-Pro
Well when it comes to numbers, Federer's 17 Slams trumps Nadal's 12. Most casual fans and non-tennis fans will stop there.
But when you take a closer look, you have to take into consideration that Federer played against a very weak field from 2003-2007.
The weakest field in tennis history. There was really no true formidable foe that was talented enough to challenge Federer back then.
But when you take a closer look, you have to take into consideration that Federer played against a very weak field from 2003-2007.
The weakest field in tennis history. There was really no true formidable foe that was talented enough to challenge Federer back then.
axel89
Banned
finally someone who believes in weak era federer era was a cOMPLETE JOKE
That's very debatable. What makes you think his era was weak? Is there good evidence that his opponents were weaker than ones Sampras played against in 1993-2000?
Here is a representative from Federer's era vs. one from Nadal's era:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdGD7xihsmw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO5VJ4tO0sg
There is no GOAT, and note that I'm distinguishing between Greatest and Most Successful. Federer comes closest, as he's the most successful - his weakest Slam is Roland-Garros, with 1 title, and 5 finals losses against the greatest clay court player who ever lived.
But questions about his H2H are valid, as well as the different eras, which is the main thing that makes a GOAT impossible to declare. Borg's achievements, for example, make him a very strong candidate, winning on vastly different surfaces for a long stretch.
But if you lined up all the all-time greats and put them in a single era with the same training and equipment, who knows who would actually come out on top? It could be Fed, or Laver, or Borg, or Sampras, or [gasp] even Nadal.
But questions about his H2H are valid, as well as the different eras, which is the main thing that makes a GOAT impossible to declare. Borg's achievements, for example, make him a very strong candidate, winning on vastly different surfaces for a long stretch.
But if you lined up all the all-time greats and put them in a single era with the same training and equipment, who knows who would actually come out on top? It could be Fed, or Laver, or Borg, or Sampras, or [gasp] even Nadal.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
And when Donald Young retires.
RNadal has never won Cincy, RFederer has multiple titles in Cincy. Cincy is known as the real slam
namelessone
Legend
The fifth slam you mean.
Candide
Hall of Fame
What he said.
Federer is pretty much the greatest for now, but we will have to see how Nadal ends his career. It's possible he outdoes Federer by winning a few more RGs and a few slams outside his realm as well. Either way, it's pretty insane that a kid dominated a slam since he was 18, and became a grown man 10 years older and still pretty much dominated it the entire time. Only one guy could beat him, in a fluke but noteworthy effort.
And even if Nadal beats the slam record, the level of play will probably continue to increase as long as the ATP continues for a few more decades. Players the caliber of a Federer or Nadal may pop up more often in the future, natural tennis creatures who have access to even better training methods and fine-tuned techniques than those of today.
And even if Nadal beats the slam record, the level of play will probably continue to increase as long as the ATP continues for a few more decades. Players the caliber of a Federer or Nadal may pop up more often in the future, natural tennis creatures who have access to even better training methods and fine-tuned techniques than those of today.
Yeah, because Federer raised the level of play higher than it had been before. It took a while for the field to catch up, even Nadal. It's like Bolt smashing the 100m record. It'll be a while before the next person breaks 9.5.
If people really want to talk about level of play, then level of play in 20 years will be even higher. It's all relative and for now Federer is pretty much the best. Unless Nadal beats his record. And someone else might win fewer slams in the future but play in a much tougher field.
Edit: whoops double.
