I really think it is nothing more than a huge myth. Yes Murray beat Djoko in straight sets in 2013 Wimbledon final but he has to thank Del po for that. Del po match in semis took 4hours 43 minutes.İt is the longest semis match in Wimbledon history. Novak was like zombie in that match. Novak has 2 Wimbledon titles 3 finals in total. Novak put Nadal on his place 2011 Wimbledon final,Nadal like or not 2nd best player on grass for the last decade and Murray looked hopeless against Nadal most of the time in Wimbledon.I would like to know what really makes Murray better than Novak on grass. His second serve which is nothing more than joke or his weaker forehand.İn my book Murray by no means better Djoko on grass and would really like to know why there is a huge myth about him that he is better than Djoko on grass.
What makes you think that Murray is better than Djoko on grass?
- Thread starter mistik
- Start date
Inanimate_object
Hall of Fame
Murray seems to be the better grass player, but marginally so. I don't buy the idea that Murray is somehow much better grass player than Djokovic.
BringBackSV
Hall of Fame
He can thank Delpo huh? Man, Novak fans sure like to make excuses for him.
AnotherTennisProdigy
Professional
Murray's game is better suited to grass than Djokovic's. Don't mistaken this with him being superior than him on grass, that's more debatable.
I think people come to this conclusion based on their forms at the moment. It took Djokovic five sets to beat Murray on clay (Murray's worst surface), it's not unreasonable to think Murray will have the advantage if they meet on grass.
EDIT- (Just saw the Delpo bit, lol...)
I think people come to this conclusion based on their forms at the moment. It took Djokovic five sets to beat Murray on clay (Murray's worst surface), it's not unreasonable to think Murray will have the advantage if they meet on grass.
EDIT- (Just saw the Delpo bit, lol...)
I am not Djokovic fan but you cant deny that Del Po match softened Djoko as a player in the final.
As a fan of Djokovic, I believe Murray got a lot of help at the US Open. Even the British commentators prayed for wind in the fifth set.
Wimbledon, however, was a different story; Murray played well, deserved the win and got the job done quick (which he needed to do). Djokovic going the distance doesn't matter; His recovery is great, Murray played aggressive and won.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
The 11-1 whipping in recent times cannot be overlooked.
I expect Novak to beat Andy.
I expect Novak to beat Andy.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Oh yes I can and I will deny it. Did that five set SF at the AO 2012 vs Murray soften Djokovic's performance for the six hour final vs Nadal?
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Payback is coming soon. Murray is close.
Oh yes I can and I will deny it. Did that five set SF at the AO 2012 vs Murray soften Djokovic's performance for the six hour final vs Nadal?
İt should have softened it.:twisted::twisted:After that match everyone get suspicious about Novak. Which is normal.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
I am suspicious about all of the top players. :twisted:
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Oh yes I can and I will deny it. Did that five set SF at the AO 2012 vs Murray soften Djokovic's performance for the six hour final vs Nadal?
Was 18 months earlier in completely different conditions ccO.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
I couldn't care less. That excuse has to be one of the lamest ever for a player in his prime.
Maybe Murray camp put gluten on Novaks food:twisted: who knows ??
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I get the impression you don't think there's ever any reasonable excuse for any player losing a tennis match ccO?
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Pretty much. If you step on the court you are fit to play.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Haha, you're brutal ccO!! :lol:
RacquetAbuse101
Semi-Pro
BringBackSV
Hall of Fame
What if one gets injured or is fighting a legit injury? My problem here is these excuses are lame.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
These players at the top of the sport are fit as fiddles and have trainers and physios who have no other job than to make sure their player is fit. I am talking about a prime fit player, not somebody past his prime.
There are no excuses for Novak. He has professionals looking after him and he is the most flexible player who has ever played the sport. If he has any problems in finals, they are mostly mental or he has faced an opponent who was better on the day. Nothing to do with anything physical. The BS I read on here from fanboys is ridiculous. Accept losses and move on.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Every player fights some sort of small injury or niggle. If he steps on court that must mean he has decided he is fit enough to play. If a bad injury happens in the middle of a match, that is a different story.
Thats the common talk on this side. Murray on grass so good better than Djoko his best surface blah blah.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Where is Murray's OG on grass? You don't count an OG but you try and talk up Djokovic's Masters 1000 titles like they are the Holy Grail.
Nobody is saying Murray is so much better on grass. They are currently comparable on grass and it seems to me that Murray is a little bit more comfortable on that surface than Djokovic is and seems to move a little bit better. That's all.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Yea people have been saying he is better for some time now. You hear it all the time.
You can add the OG if you want that still does not surpass Djokovic overall. So Djokovic actually has better results.
I sympathize with OP. You hear this all the time, and I don't know where people get this stuff from.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
I would say their results are pretty even right now with Djokovic slightly better because of the extra W title. If Murray wins another W I would put him slightly ahead of Djokovic because he will have 2 titles plus the OG.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Fair enough.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
It's a classic TTW myth that Murray is better than Djokovic based on the 2013 Wimbledon match and OG which had an extremely partisan crowd.
If I had to call it I would say Djokovic is marginally ahead of Murray even on grass, after all he has two Wimbledon titles to his name.
If I had to call it I would say Djokovic is marginally ahead of Murray even on grass, after all he has two Wimbledon titles to his name.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Oh dear, bit of a Novak fanboy, are we?
First off, Murray owes nothing to Delpo or anybody else for his Wimbledon win. If Djokovic couldn't put away Delpo in straight sets, that was his problem. Nothing to do with Murray.
Secondly, Murray had already beaten Djokovic on grass the year before at Wimbledon at the 2012 Olympics, again in straights, so his H2H v Djokovic on grass is 2-0 to Murray. Djokovic has yet to take a set off Murray on grass.
Lastly, although Djokovic is more accomplished at Wimbledon with 2 titles out of 3 finals, Murray has 5 titles on grass including a Wimbledon title, another final and an Olympic gold medal (beating Djokovic en route to winning it as I just said).
All in all, I think that kind of makes them equal on the surface as things stand so you need to wise up and start having a bit more respect for Murray and his game, especially his game on grass!
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
I expect Murray to take down Novak in 4 at Wimbledon should they play.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Because Djokovic is not a natural grass courter and Murray is.
Novak doesn't move as well on grass as he does on other surfaces either. Murray moves even better on grass.
Not to mention for his Wimbledon trophy in 2014, the only thing separating them, he had to beat a 33 year old Federer and still went 5 sets with him.
In terms of ability, Murray > Novak on grass.
PS - Del Potro is an excuse and is actually a good reason why Novak isn't that good on grass since Del Potro is typically terrible on the surface.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
I would be very happy to see that result in the final!
We can then declare Murray as greater than Djokovic on grass!
DolgoSantoro
Professional
While you can explain it any way you wish, Djokovic has been straight-setted by Murray every time they've played on grass. There's absolutely no guarantee that this would happen again if they played again, true. However, Murray just took Novak to 5 on his weakest surface and on Novak's second strongest. From this, I really wouldn't feel comfortable betting against Murray if they were to meet at Wimby.
Not a betting man, so that's probably irrelevant. I wholeheartedly hope they meet in the semis or final again so we can put this question to rest. Novak's resume is clearly (slightly) better, so it may be something of a Fedal situation.
Not a betting man, so that's probably irrelevant
. I wholeheartedly hope they meet in the semis or final again so we can put this question to rest. Novak's resume is clearly (slightly) better, so it may be something of a Fedal situation.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Oh dear, bit of a Novak fanboy, are we?
First off, Murray owes nothing to Delpo or anybody else for his Wimbledon win. If Djokovic couldn't put away Delpo in straight sets, that was his problem. Nothing to do with Murray.
Secondly, Murray had already beaten Djokovic on grass the year before at Wimbledon at the 2012 Olympics, again in straights, so his H2H v Djokovic on grass is 2-0 to Murray. Djokovic has yet to take a set off Murray on grass.
Lastly, although Djokovic is more accomplished at Wimbledon with 2 titles out of 3 finals, Murray has 5 titles on grass including a Wimbledon title, another final and an Olympic gold medal (beating Djokovic en route to winning it as I just said).
All in all, I think that kind of makes them equal on the surface as things stand so you need to wise up and start having a bit more respect for Murray and his game, especially his game on grass!
Mainad, are you sure you are not Judy Murray? :lol:
No, just kidding. Good post.
The rabid Djokovic fans would go apesh*t if that happened. It would be like the last nail in the coffin. :lol:
6
6-3 6-0
Guest
Djokovic is better than Murray on grasscourt unless proven otherwise. 2 GS titles beats 1 GS title + OG + whatever number of Queens titles Murray has. If Murray wins this year's Wimbledon, then he definitely has the edge. H2H doesn't matter when you lag by 1 GS title.
Personally, I wish Djokovic doesn't win anymore Wimby titles.
Personally, I wish Djokovic doesn't win anymore Wimby titles.
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sliceroni
Hall of Fame
I am starting to like Novak. But I am sick of hearing the same f**king excuses from his fans or coach when he loses "Oh he had to play a five setter in the previous match" or "He didn't have a day rest like his opponent did"
If you don't have enough reserves in the tank, you don't deserve the title.
...Didn't bother to read the previous posters. Apparently many feel the same way.
If you don't have enough reserves in the tank, you don't deserve the title.
...Didn't bother to read the previous posters. Apparently many feel the same way.
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batz
G.O.A.T.
I can absolutely see the argument that Nole has achieved more on grass if you only talk about Wimbledon wins - even then Murray made five straight Wimbledon semis - so he's been pretty consistent there. But there are other metrics which surely are also relevant. Their H2H is 2-0 to Murray on grass, 0-5 in sets. Novak has an 80% win record on the surface, Murray's is 83%.
Would it also be naughty of me to say that while Nole has 1 more Wimbledon title than Murray, he's never had to beat Murray to win one - the opposite is not true.
So to recap, there are arguments for and against both players - which for me makes the premise of OP just a tad silly.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Murray - better movement, volleys, lob, arguably a better backhand on grass too.
batz
G.O.A.T.
This makes perfect sense. No way does a guy who last week took 2 sets off Nole on his worst surface take more than 1 set off Nole on his best surface.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Where is his results then as oppose to djokovic?
Funny part is, djokovic is not actually a Grass Court player. But thanks to his completeness and adaptability he can have these results.
killerboi2
Hall of Fame
Djokovic is just about better than Murray on grass so far. More wimbledon titles than Murray is the reason why. However using the Del Potro match is ridiculous. Why was Djokovic taken to 5 sets by a man who's best achievement on grass is olympic bronze?
6
6-3 6-0
Guest
I never said/implied Murray was a mug on grass or that he was inconsistent lol. Whatever I said was in respect to Djokovic, not the rest of the field. What I am saying is that their H2H is irrelevant since Djokovic has achieved more on the grass (I think that personally, each to their own). IMO a single Wimbledon title > 'X' no. of other grass titles. Murray is the better player in their matchup as shown by the two matches but against the whole field Djokovic is the better one.
Now if Murray wins another Wimbledon, he will have clear edge on grass no question asked.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
I never said/implied Murray was a mug on grass or that he was inconsistent lol. Whatever I said was in respect to Djokovic, not the rest of the field. What I am saying is that their H2H is irrelevant since Djokovic has achieved more on the grass (I think that personally, each to their own). IMO a single Wimbledon title > 'X' no. of other grass titles. Murray is the better player in their matchup as shown by the two matches but against the whole field Djokovic is the better one.
Now if Murray wins another Wimbledon, he will have clear edge on grass no question asked.
That is what I was going to say.
H2h is irrelevant when Talking achievements as what is counted is against the whole Field and playing different matchups, not against one player. And in this case djokovic is ahead. So h2h arguments are invalid.
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D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Results:
- More titles on grass.
- Leads the H2H between them on grass.
Djokovic has the second Wimbledon.
Djokovic isn't a grass-courter. Slow HC is his specialty. Maybe clay too.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Pffff murrays other titles on Grass does not make up for djokovics 1 extra W title and one extra final.
H2h? What are you, following the footsteps of Nadal fans? H2h is irrelevant as Djokovic has done better against the Field and different matchups, wich murray has failed to do.
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
Well Murray did win the olympics and the final was a best of 5 match that he won in straight sets against Federer (who had a full day of rest btw between semi final and final (saying that before fatigue is used as a reason for Murray's win).
Yes olympics < Wimbledon but that still needs to be considered when we are talking about Murray on grass (no set lost in semi final and final is a great achievement)
Yes olympics < Wimbledon but that still needs to be considered when we are talking about Murray on grass (no set lost in semi final and final is a great achievement)
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