NADAL V FEDERER H2H

peakin11mugs

Semi-Pro
Yes it is outdoor skewed but all the Majors are outdoors so unless something changes Nadal has massive bragging rights 22-9.

He also has massive bragging rights of being outside top 10 in AO, WIMB and US while fed is literally no1 and 2 in AO.

Why is he not top 10?

That alone means he is a one trick pony and not a GOAT. He will never be in GOAT discussion being outside of top 10 at 3 slams and all hardcourt mastera and not being top 50 at WTF

Why has he never beaten djoker at AO yet djoker has beaten hind AO FO, WIMB, US, WTF, All masters played together
 
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Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Thats massive ownership. I now see why there is vitriol towards Nadal. Jealousy it appears. I didnt realise it was such a massive gap. Wow.

Thanks for posting.
And thank you for joining. Now for the more important question, which gummybears do you prefer?
 

aman92

Legend
He has 5 Wimb
Nadal is not top 10 AO
not top 10 WIMB
at best top 6 US
Non factor WTF (0 titles)
Is not top 10 any HC masters

Summary one trick pony. Not in GOAT discussion
He has 5 Wimbledon finals and 2 titles...name me 10 players above him in the open era.

Similarly 4 Aus Open final and a title, which are the 10 players above him?
 

peakin11mugs

Semi-Pro
He has 5 Wimb

He has 5 Wimbledon finals and 2 titles...name me 10 players above him in the open era.

Similarly 4 Aus Open final and a title, which are the 10 players above him?

I’m talking about actual titles won. And I am doing that as a concession to vamos brigrade. If we start to include grand slam finals reached nadal loses so bad the debate isn’t even interesting. Just a taste nadal total semis entire career 26. Fed did 23 in a row lol. lol he did nadals entire career in a consecutive stretch LMAO Let’s not talk about slam finals lol
 
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peakin11mugs

Semi-Pro
Three USO 2 Wimbledons? One trick pony? That's hilarious.

Simple test. Take away EVERYTHING fed has EVER achieved on his best surface grass. What’s left? GOAT player 11 GS, 27 masters, 6 WTF sand most of his no 1 weeks unaffected by missing out grass swing.

Amazing thing is do the same with HARD or INDOORS what’s left is a GOAT player

Do the same with nadal on clay. He’s not even a ATG and basically without clay swings mathematically he would not even have a single week at no1

Dictionary definition of one trick Pony - they are nothing without their strength. Take your pick rénové Feds grass or his hardcourt or his indoors he is GOAT. Nadal without clay is not even an ATG
 

BlueClayGOAT

Semi-Pro
Nadal has held his own against them on his lesser preferred surfaces more or less, but crushed them on clay.

What a man.

Are we still debating greatness based on H2H in 2017?

Rafa is obviously far less accomplished than the other two outside clay. He has a high peak level, but he has never managed ruthless consistency outside clay.

But you know, that's not important on TTW, because any idiot can make semis and finals on all surfaces year after year after year, what really matters is performing great once in a while and improving H2H numbers and going missing the rest of the time by losing in the early rounds to mugs.

I cannot believe how underrated consistency is on this forum. In my estimation, it's what separates the GOATest from the GOATs. It takes unbelievable versatility and ability to turn in great performances 24x7 in all conditions.


Now Rafa is a titan of a player, one of the absolute GOATs. But he is not nearly as accomplished as Novak and Federer across surfaces.


Rafa has NEVER defended a title off clay in his entire career. Think about that, especially given the predominance of HC on tour. Federer and Djokovic have both defended titles on clay.
 

peakin11mugs

Semi-Pro
Three USO 2 Wimbledons? One trick pony? That's hilarious.

On his own he’s great. With your butteurs obsession to fed abaolutely hes one trick pony. Fed is literally most successful at WIMB, US, WTF, most individual masters. And is no 2 at AO

Nadal is no 1 at 1 surface and 1 slam and 2 masters. That is all. One trick pony. Dictionary definition.

Take away that surface he has no records left. For fed you pick I don’t even have tonwhat surface you wanna take away and he is still a goat. Go on erase his hardcourt career - grass GOAT. erase HC erase indoors
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Are we still debating greatness based on H2H in 2017?

Rafa is obviously far less accomplished than the other two outside clay. He has a high peak level, but he has never managed ruthless consistency outside clay.

But you know, that's not important on TTW, because any idiot can make semis and finals on all surfaces year after year after year, what really matters is performing great once in a while and improving H2H numbers and going missing the rest of the time by losing in the early rounds to mugs.

I cannot believe how underrated consistency is on this forum. In my estimation, it's what separates the GOATest from the GOATs. It takes unbelievable versatility and ability to turn in great performances 24x7 in all conditions.


Now Rafa is a titan of a player, one of the absolute GOATs. But he is not nearly as accomplished as Novak and Federer across surfaces.

Nadal is only 31. Imagine how many Slams he'll have when he's 36!

But being serious, although Nadal's consistency has had a different tempo to Federer's and Djokovic's there's no doubt he himself is extremely consistent but for a couple of recent years + injury breaks.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
Nadal has more HC majors than lendl in a harder era.
:confused::confused::confused:
I'm ill, so I've got nothing better to respond to than your troll thread and troll post.

1) We're talking US Open, now you're trying to change the conversation to HC majors, but sure - let's do that.
1a) In case you don't know/have forgotten, there was just one HC major for the vast majority of Lendl's pro career.
1b) Once the AO changed to HC in 1988, Lendl won it in 89 and 90 and made another final in 1991.
2) Lendl made the US Open final 8 years straight, winning 3 of them.
3) Lendl never won a HC slam without meeting a top-25 player.
4) Lendl beat guys like McEnroe, Edberg, Wilander, Becker, Connors, Noah and Mecir. And lost to guys like McEnroe, Connors, Becker and Wilander. Sure - not a tough era :rolleyes:.
4a) Lendl beat Noah, Connors and McEnroe in succession for his first US Open-title. Please remind me of a tougher HC slam win for Rafa?
4b) In 86, he beat Gilbert, Leconte, Edberg and Mecir. And in 87 it was McEnroe, Connors, Wilander. Again, please remind me of a tougher HC slam win for Rafa?
5) Lendl's got 5 HC slams and 6 HC RU's to Rafa's 4 HC slams and 4 HC RU's - and had the AO changed to HC sooner, there's little doubt those numbers would be even better for Lendl.

Case closed. Now go back to your cave and troll elsewhere.

P.s., you're lack of Lendl-knowledge reminds me of a fellow VB-member, see my signature (@clayqueen).
 

BlueClayGOAT

Semi-Pro
But being serious, although Nadal's consistency has had a different tempo to Federer's and Djokovic's there's no doubt he himself is extremely consistent but for a couple of recent years + injury breaks.

Compared to the rest of the tour, of course he's consistent- he's one of the top 2 or 3 players ever. But compared to the other ATGs, no, he isn't that great outside clay. It's just a fact.

He's got 'just' 8 HC Masters despite there being 6 out of 9 Masters on HC. No WTF titles.

Has got fewer HC slams than a lot of ATG players, despite him not skipping the AO for prestige reasons and having 2 HC slams to play per year throughout his career unlike some of the 70s and 80s greats who had to play the USO and AO on grass often.

His grass game was great from 2006-11, then dropped off a cliff and has never been the same.
Never defending a title outside clay is quite damning, really.

Is Rafa great? Of course he is, but his greatness does not include consistency outside his preferred surface.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Compared to the rest of the tour, of course he's consistent- he's one of the top 2 or 3 players ever. But compared to the other ATGs, no, he isn't that great outside clay. It's just a fact.

He's got 'just' 8 HC Masters despite there being 6 out of 9 Masters on HC. No WTF titles.

Has got fewer HC slams than a lot of ATG players, despite him not skipping the AO for prestige reasons and having 2 HC slams to play per year throughout his career unlike some of the 70s and 80s greats who had to play the USO and AO on grass often.

His grass game was great from 2006-11, then dropped off a cliff and has never been the same.
Never defending a title outside clay is quite damning, really.

Is Rafa great? Of course he is, but his greatness does not include consistency outside his preferred surface.

Which other ATGs are we comparing him to? I agree he's not the most consistent across surfaces but there are only two Open Era players close to Nadal in Slams (and that's pushing it TBH) in Sampras and Fed, and Sampras had even less success on his weakest surface than Nadal, albeit showing more balance across his two strongest surfaces. Comparing him to Federer is a very high standard indeed, but I agree that Federer and Djokovic are overall more consistent players and that's represented by their #1 accolades overall - not that Nadal is a million miles away though. I compare those three as they're from the same era. Sampras managed 6 straight YE#1 in a weaker (less strong) field for top level ATG tennis talent.
 

BlueClayGOAT

Semi-Pro
Which other ATGs are we comparing him to? I agree he's not the most consistent across surfaces but there are only two Open Era players close to Nadal in Slams (and that's pushing it TBH) in Sampras and Fed, and Sampras had even less success on his weakest surface than Nadal, albeit showing more balance across his two strongest surfaces. Comparing him to Federer is a very high standard indeed, but I agree that Federer and Djokovic are overall more consistent players and that's represented by their #1 accolades overall - not that Nadal is a million miles away though. I compare those three as they're from the same era. Sampras managed 6 straight YE#1 in a weaker (less strong) field for top level ATG tennis talent.


That's fair enough.
What i meant was that if you take away performance outside their best surfaces, Nadal seems to suffer more in comparison with other ATGs.
I'm not sure what that means, or even if it's anything really significant.
But it's a fact.
 

peakin11mugs

Semi-Pro
Compared to the rest of the tour, of course he's consistent- he's one of the top 2 or 3 players ever. But compared to the other ATGs, no, he isn't that great outside clay. It's just a fact.

He's got 'just' 8 HC Masters despite there being 6 out of 9 Masters on HC. No WTF titles.

Has got fewer HC slams than a lot of ATG players, despite him not skipping the AO for prestige reasons and having 2 HC slams to play per year throughout his career unlike some of the 70s and 80s greats who had to play the USO and AO on grass often.

His grass game was great from 2006-11, then dropped off a cliff and has never been the same.
Never defending a title outside clay is quite damning, really.

Is Rafa great? Of course he is, but his greatness does not include consistency outside his preferred surface.

Never reached all four slam finals in a year. Yes really. One time in whole career has got four semis OR better. Yes really one time

Outstanding champion no doubt. Consistent he is not. And compared to fed basically in everything he is trumped
 

peakin11mugs

Semi-Pro
:confused::confused::confused:
I'm ill, so I've got nothing better to respond to than your troll thread and troll post.

1) We're talking US Open, now you're trying to change the conversation to HC majors, but sure - let's do that.
1a) In case you don't know/have forgotten, there was just one HC major for the vast majority of Lendl's pro career.
1b) Once the AO changed to HC in 1988, Lendl won it in 89 and 90 and made another final in 1991.
2) Lendl made the US Open final 8 years straight, winning 3 of them.
3) Lendl never won a HC slam without meeting a top-25 player.
4) Lendl beat guys like McEnroe, Edberg, Wilander, Becker, Connors, Noah and Mecir. And lost to guys like McEnroe, Connors, Becker and Wilander. Sure - not a tough era :rolleyes:.
4a) Lendl beat Noah, Connors and McEnroe in succession for his first US Open-title. Please remind me of a tougher HC slam win for Rafa?
4b) In 86, he beat Gilbert, Leconte, Edberg and Mecir. And in 87 it was McEnroe, Connors, Wilander. Again, please remind me of a tougher HC slam win for Rafa?
5) Lendl's got 5 HC slams and 6 HC RU's to Rafa's 4 HC slams and 4 HC RU's - and had the AO changed to HC sooner, there's little doubt those numbers would be even better for Lendl.

Case closed. Now go back to your cave and troll elsewhere.

P.s., you're lack of Lendl-knowledge reminds me of a fellow VB-member, see my signature (@clayqueen).

Lol these facts are lost on a deluded troll

I accept differences of opinion. Absolutely nadal or anyone even a random 252 ranked player could be someone’s favourite and fed be boring and crap to someone. However to think nadal is better than fed apart from on clay you have to be either ignorant or have some weird inferiority complex and are projecting and need the underdog nadal to be GOAT as it resembles you
 

aman92

Legend
I’m talking about actual titles won. And I am doing that as a concession to vamos brigrade. If we start to include grand slam finals reached nadal loses so bad the debate isn’t even interesting. Just a taste nadal total semis entire career 26. Fed did 23 in a row lol. lol he did nadals entire career in a consecutive stretch LMAO Let’s not talk about slam finals lol
Yeah...putting you on my ignore list right away
 

peakin11mugs

Semi-Pro
Hahahahahha triggered by Fed's stats

Can't blame you, many of Roger's numbers are so good they look made up

It’s just a tennis forum and tennis players I’m not fussed about that. But seriously for this @aman92 and @DRII guy in life I actually worry about them. Just crying and ignoring facts you don’t like and making your own narrative based on made up crap. Lol they’ll be saying Murray is GOAT with his 2 Olympic
Golds next. If your a VBrigrader who thinks nadal is GOAT youve got some issues. Obviously fav player whoever you want and think fed is rubbish and boring yeah absolutely personal preferrance but to think nadal is a GOAT get the heck out of here.
 

Pyrolysis

Rookie
It’s just a tennis forum and tennis players I’m not fussed about that. But seriously for this @aman92 and @DRII guy in life I actually worry about them. Just crying and ignoring facts you don’t like and making your own narrative based on made up crap. Lol they’ll be saying Murray is GOAT with his 2 Olympic
Golds next. If your a VBrigrader who thinks nadal is GOAT youve got some issues. Obviously fav player whoever you want and think fed is rubbish and boring yeah absolutely personal preferrance but to think nadal is a GOAT get the heck out of here.
I don't understand why they do it to themselves
 
Not sure if this has been broken down but it is interesting.

Clay: Nadal 13-2 Federer
Outdoor hard: Nadal 8-5 Federer
Indoor hard: Federer 6-1 Nadal
Grass: Federer 2-1 Nadal

So outdoors its Nadal 22-9 Federer. All the Majors are outdoors albeit three do have a roof so if Nadal and Federer play and roof is closed Federer will be favourite. But if not closed Nadal is favourite.

What puzzles me is ive read the h2h is clay skewed. Looking at the above thats inaccurate as they have played less than half their matches on clay.
It's not Federer's fault he has a bad matchup against Nadal. Life is unfair sometimes.
 
Nadal has an overwhelming and crushing advantage over Federer AND Djokovic in the Slams (it's actually not even close). The H2H is already damning enough but if you look at just the Slam H2H the figures become exceedingly damning and it soon becomes clear who the best of the era is.

There can only be one.


















Andy Murray
I was going to write a scathing reply about your Nadal gloating, but you got me with your last line. :D
 

Lexibra

New User
It isn't even a bad match-up outside of clay either lol.

Very even anywhere else. To Nadal's credit, he's more formidable on grass vs Fed than Fed is vs him on Clay.

But still, anywhere else, it's a good matchup
Not indoors. That was the point of the thread really. I had hoped it might lead to an interesting technical discussion about the difference of playing indoors and outdoors as the disparity cant just be down to wind.
 

peakin11mugs

Semi-Pro
Not indoors. That was the point of the thread really. I had hoped it might lead to an interesting technical discussion about the difference of playing indoors and outdoors as the disparity cant just be down to wind.

The “technical” discussion is nadal tanks 3 months comes back when opponents are in a natural down swing and then wins the 2 matches, disappears 3 months in his weaker tournaments, loses 2 rinse and repeat. Net result losing record against djoker, mueller, davednko and mild to moderate advantage over federer who gets to finals of anything and everything on any surface or condition for 8 consecutive years. Nadal has never done this for 12 months. Literally 12 months. Never reached four slam finals in a year lol. That alone means he isn’t goat.
 

Lexibra

New User
The “technical” discussion is nadal tanks 3 months comes back when opponents are in a natural down swing and then wins the 2 matches, disappears 3 months in his weaker tournaments, loses 2 rinse and repeat. Net result losing record against djoker, mueller, davednko and mild to moderate advantage over federer who gets to finals of anything and everything on any surface or condition for 8 consecutive years. Nadal has never done this for 12 months. Literally 12 months. Never reached four slam finals in a year lol. That alone means he isn’t goat.
That hardly makes sense. Could you edit it a bit please. Thank you.
 

peakin11mugs

Semi-Pro
That hardly makes sense. Could you edit it a bit please. Thank you.

Executive summary: Nadal is a one trick pony (dictionary definition) and a weak clay era champion basically

His h2h is basically tank 3 months wait for opponent to decline, win 2 matches, tank 3 months lose 1 match. Rinse and repeat for a career.

When there’s nowhere to hide eg Djokovic you lose 7-0 twice without winning a single set. You lose 7 finals in a row and lose RG
 

Lexibra

New User
The “technical” discussion is nadal tanks 3 months comes back when opponents are in a natural down swing and then wins the 2 matches, disappears 3 months in his weaker tournaments, loses 2 rinse and repeat. Net result losing record against djoker, mueller, davednko and mild to moderate advantage over federer who gets to finals of anything and everything on any surface or condition for 8 consecutive years. Nadal has never done this for 12 months. Literally 12 months. Never reached four slam finals in a year lol. That alone means he isn’t goat.
I made out bits of it eventually. Federer missed three months this year..the whole clay swing. So you seem to be criticising him.

The last part suggests you are a Djokovic fan? Djokovic held all four Majors at once i.e he actually won, so according to you he is GOAT? It is a three way debate certainly. 2018 will soon start.
 

peakin11mugs

Semi-Pro
I made out bits of it eventually. Federer missed three months this year..the whole clay swing. So you seem to be criticising him.

The last part suggests you are a Djokovic fan? Djokovic held all four Majors at once i.e he actually won, so according to you he is GOAT? It is a three way debate certainly. 2018 will soon start.

Lol for you own sake don’t use fed as an example. At age 36 he did what nadal did since age 19. Fed 18 out 19 consecutive slams nadal never four slam finals in a row lol

Yes Djokovic is better than nadal. He’s beaten nadal at AO, FO, WIMB, US, WTF, All shared masters. Closest thing to fed and can beat both fed and nadal anywhere.
 

Lexibra

New User
Executive summary: Nadal is a one trick pony (dictionary definition) and a weak clay era champion basically

His h2h is basically tank 3 months wait for opponent to decline, win 2 matches, tank 3 months lose 1 match. Rinse and repeat for a career.

When there’s nowhere to hide eg Djokovic you lose 7-0 twice without winning a single set. You lose 7 finals in a row and lose RG
Didnt Nadal go 6-1 over Djokovic and 4-1 in Majors after that?

Weak era? Most would point to 2003-2006.

Nadal has 3 USO and 2 Wimbledons and 1 AO. The only player if im not mistaken to have won a Major at least twice on each surface. Yet you say a one trick pony. I am struggling to take you seriously and i see now why someone else put you on their ignore list. I wont though. Defeats the objective of a forum.
 

Lexibra

New User
Lol for you own sake don’t use fed as an example. At age 36 he did what nadal did since age 19. Fed 18 out 19 consecutive slams nadal never four slam finals in a row lol

Yes Djokovic is better than nadal. He’s beaten nadal at AO, FO, WIMB, US, WTF, All shared masters. Closest thing to fed and can beat both fed and nadal anywhere.
Remind me how being 4 behind is better than being 3 behind.? Again that logic doesnt really stack up. You seem to be saying Nadal and Djokovic are ahead of Federer. As i say its a three way debate so we will soon find out in around 5 years time.
 

augustobt

Legend
The only player if im not mistaken to have won a Major at least twice on each surface. Yet you say a one trick pony. I am struggling to take you seriously and i see now why someone else put you on their ignore list. I wont though. Defeats the objective of a forum.
People even had any doubts this is TennisATP? No other moron in the world would bring such stupid statistics and the quote on ignore list is pure gold. Come on, jackass, at least try harder when making a double account :rolleyes:
 

peakin11mugs

Semi-Pro
Remind me how being 4 behind is better than being 3 behind.? Again that logic doesnt really stack up. You seem to be saying Nadal and Djokovic are ahead of Federer. As i say its a three way debate so we will soon find out in around 5 years time.

Logic fail. No we know now that federer is the GOAT right now. In 5 years time we will know IF nadal or djoker was able to become the GOAT. Key difference. Just as Zverev, shapavolov (insert any player) isn’t GOAT now lol without doing the GOAT things. Fed is GOAT now. He has done it. How do we know Djokovic isn’t better than nadal? Do we have to wait five years? How about Murray?

Secondly exactly. Thanks for proving my point your saying Djokovic isn’t better than nadal with 4 slams less and a leading h2h and 3 superset period of utter domination (7-0, 7-0 etc). Well with your same logic nadal isn’t better than fed. Also as he is not top 10 at three slams, the WTF, every single masters bar 2, three surfaces (indoor the their surface but if not ok 2 surfaces) he will never be the GOAT under any circumstances. You can discuss his clay acclompihsments that’s it.
 

peakin11mugs

Semi-Pro
Remind me how being 4 behind is better than being 3 behind.? Again that logic doesnt really stack up. You seem to be saying Nadal and Djokovic are ahead of Federer. As i say its a three way debate so we will soon find out in around 5 years time.

5 years = 20 slams. What if wawrinka wins all 20 do we need to wait 5 years to see if wawrinka is GOAT no fed. But then we have to wait 5 years until Zverev retires.

Fail. We know fed is GOAT. We don’t wait 5 years. In 5 years we know if nadal or djoker ever became GOAT. Djoker maybe. Nadal never. His one trick pony status excludes him from any goat discussion. He needs to get top 10 on grass and HC first and indoors where he is not top 100 (Has 1 title for comparison davcednjkyo leads h2h and has 6 indoor titles)
 

anhtuanngo

Semi-Pro
Didnt Nadal go 6-1 over Djokovic and 4-1 in Majors after that?

Weak era? Most would point to 2003-2006.

Nadal has 3 USO and 2 Wimbledons and 1 AO. The only player if im not mistaken to have won a Major at least twice on each surface. Yet you say a one trick pony. I am struggling to take you seriously and i see now why someone else put you on their ignore list. I wont though. Defeats the objective of a forum.
Funny...he uses the same argument as @TennisATP
 
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