"The guy is a damn pusher" is the scarlet letter of a 3.5

TimeToPlaySets

TimeToPlaySets

Legend
By the time one gets to 4.0, they have learned the secret rule of winning tennis.
"Hit the ball inside the white lines"
This obscure arcane rule is not known by lower ranked players, or so you'd think.

3.5 on the other hand, does not understand how to win matches.
They just smash and lose. They seem to hate the pusher because he's not playing real tennis.

To get to 4.0, you need to dial back your strokes and keep the ball in.
As a result, I have never heard a 4.0 player bash a pusher.
The 4.0 respects the pushers consistency.

"The guy is a damn pusher" is the scarlet letter of a 3.5
 
vex

vex

Legend
OP needs rehab for his addiction to posting inane repetitive threads on the interwebs. Do they treat for his disorder?
 
Z

zaph

Professional
TimeToPlaySets said:
By the time one gets to 4.0, they have learned the secret rule of winning tennis.
"Hit the ball inside the white lines"
This obscure arcane rule is not known by lower ranked players, or so you'd think.

3.5 on the other hand, does not understand how to win matches.
They just smash and lose. They seem to hate the pusher because he's not playing real tennis.

To get to 4.0, you need to dial back your strokes and keep the ball in.
As a result, I have never heard a 4.0 player bash a pusher.
The 4.0 respects the pushers consistency.

"The guy is a damn pusher" is the scarlet letter of a 3.5
Click to expand...

Are you a 4.0 level player? Nope, so you're don't know what you are talking about. Pure pushing is a limited way of playing tennis, because you are relying on you opponent missing easy paceless balls.

I can bunt with this best of them and when I try it against anyone decent, I get crushed.

Yes you need consistency, placement matters, that is the reason they talk about hitting at 80% in the rally and having a rally shot. That isn't the same as simply pushing.
 
Z

zaph

Professional
TimeToPlaySets said:
"Hitting at 80% is what stupid Pushers do"
Go big or go home
Click to expand...

Pushing is something you see at our level, it players who arm the ball, prod it and block it back. It is not the same as hitting within yourself and staying in a rally.

It is your life, if you want to try and get to a higher level by pushing it is your business. You will be wasting your time.

We have some pretty good pushers at my club, it is hilarious to watch them torment new members who assume they are easy meat from their poor form. They use to bagel me, but that is kind of my point. They don't do that anymore, because their game style is a deadend. They haven't improved in all the years I have known them.

I am not saying that learning how to push is a bad thing, I have done it, it helped me understand how to beat them and improved my defence. However you cannot reach the higher levels of tennis with flawed technique. Eventually you will hit a wall and will have to improve your strokes or stop improving.
 
TimeToPlaySets

TimeToPlaySets

Legend
zaph said:
Pushing is something you see at our level, it players who arm the ball, prod it and block it back. It is not the same as hitting within yourself and staying in a rally.

It is your life, if you want to try and get to a higher level by pushing it is your business. You will be wasting your time.

We have some pretty good pushers at my club, it is hilarious to watch them torment new members who assume they are easy meat from their poor form. They use to bagel me, but that is kind of my point. They don't do that anymore, because their game style is a deadend. They haven't improved in all the years I have known them.

I am not saying that learning how to push is a bad thing, I have done it, it helped me understand how to beat them and improved my defence. However you cannot reach the higher levels of tennis with flawed technique. Eventually you will hit a wall and will have to improve your strokes or stop improving.
Click to expand...
What level did you progress to?
What level were the pushers with bad form? 3.5 or 4.0?
 
Rattler

Rattler

Hall of Fame
TimeToPlaySets said:
What level did you progress to?
What level were the pushers with bad form? 3.5 or 4.0?
Click to expand...

Pushers exist at every level....EVERY level....

That doesn’t mean they win, or go deep in tournaments

Players who blast the ball...also exist at every level...(see above)

You make these posts where you proclaim to have unlocked this secret knowledge...and maybe you have for you, if so your results will show it...but still you come off as a blowhard know-it-all wannabe.


Sorry dude...it’s the truth, and you may not like it
 
TimeToPlaySets

TimeToPlaySets

Legend
Rattler said:
Pushers exist at every level....EVERY level....

That doesn’t mean they win, or go deep in tournaments

Players who blast the ball...also exist at every level...(see above)

You make these posts where you proclaim to have unlocked this secret knowledge...and maybe you have for you, if so your results will show it...but still you come off as a blowhard know-it-all wannabe.


Sorry dude...it’s the truth, and you may not like it
Click to expand...
I have unlocked secret knowledge.
You should pay me for this wisdom.
That is the only part I don't like.
Would you like to PayPal me or venmo?
 
Rattler

Rattler

Hall of Fame
TimeToPlaySets said:
I have unlocked secret knowledge.
You should pay me for this wisdom.
That is the only part I don't like.
Would you like to PayPal me or venmo?
Click to expand...

I’m sure you have...and rainbows and unicorns fly out of your ponytail when you play.

But first things first guy...I’ve seen you play (that video of you and NYtennisaddict...

Your serve has a serious hitch, a novice could tell your forehand will breakdown under pressure (with that ridiculous backswing), your backhand is non-existent as is your footwork.

So you’ve stated numerous times that you spent five grand (or more) on lessons...can you get your money back? Or are you the proverbial ‘fool and his money?’


Really I wish you well guy...but if you speak to people in person with the same condescending attitude (having done NOTHING to ever back it up). Well I’m surprised that someone along the way hasn’t broken your jaw to teach you a lesson.
 
TimeToPlaySets

TimeToPlaySets

Legend
Rattler said:
I’m sure you have...and rainbows and unicorns fly out of your ponytail when you play.

But first things first guy...I’ve seen you play (that video of you and NYtennisaddict...

Your serve has a serious hitch, a novice could tell your forehand will breakdown under pressure (with that ridiculous backswing), your backhand is non-existent as is your footwork.

So you’ve stated numerous times that you spent five grand (or more) on lessons...can you get your money back? Or are you the proverbial ‘fool and his money?’


Really I wish you well guy...but if you speak to people in person with the same condescending attitude (having done NOTHING to ever back it up). Well I’m surprised that someone along the way hasn’t broken your jaw to teach you a lesson.
Click to expand...

$2500.

Are you going to pay me for my secret knowledge? Lessons ain't cheap, ya know..

I'm gonna take 3 lessons a day this summer.
 
T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
I played my first usta league singles match in many years last night. I had only been on a tennis court once in the past month due to work schedule and travel. But I agreed to play because my 4.5/5.0 over-40 team was short players.

My opponent was solid 4.5 with extensive usta singles history. He had much better forehand than me, but was a couple of years older than me.

I started out fine, hitting normal groundstrokes, won a few no-ad deuce points to lead 5-1, then lost one at set point. Then while serving at 5-2, I suddenly started to lose confidence in my forehand. Realizing I was tightening up and there was not much I could do about it given my rusty condition, I made a conscious decision to switch into pusher mode.

I walked over mid-game and switched racquets from my blade to my 6.1 95 18x20 (more players racquet feel to get better touch).
I dropped the next 3 games but I could see my opponent starting to wilt as I dinked and moonballed him side to side and up and back.
I got to set point at 6-5, no-ad deuce and played an epic/sorry 200+ Stroke rally point that ended in my favor when I finally approached the net.

After a 20 minute delay ( due to court bump), we resumed, with my match as the rubber match for the team. My opponent seemed on the verge of tapping out from cramping from the beginning of the set, so I kept purposely extending the rallies, but somehow the dude kept competing.

He finally seized up with full body cramps as he plowed into the back curtain when I drop-shot/lobbed him one last time on match point. I felt a bit ashamed at the display of ugly tennis I subjected my team to, but they were all grateful for my decisive win.

But after 2.5h+ of singles last night, I decided to cancel my scheduled singles for tonight to avoid high injury risk. I was on verge of cramping myself.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
travlerajm said:
I played my first usta league singles match in many years last night. I had only been on a tennis court once in the past month due to work schedule and travel. But I agreed to play because my 4.5/5.0 over-40 team was short players.

My opponent was solid 4.5 with extensive usta singles history. He had much better forehand than me, but was a couple of years older than me.

I started out fine, hitting normal groundstrokes, won a few no-ad deuce points to lead 5-1, then lost one at set point. Then while serving at 5-2, I suddenly started to lose confidence in my forehand. Realizing I was tightening up and there was not much I could do about it given my rusty condition, I made a conscious decision to switch into pusher mode.

I walked over mid-game and switched racquets from my blade to my 6.1 95 18x20 (more players racquet feel to get better touch).
I dropped the next 3 games but I could see my opponent starting to wilt as I dinked and moonballed him side to side and up and back.
I got to set point at 6-5, no-ad deuce and played an epic/sorry 200+ Stroke rally point that ended in my favor when I finally approached the net.

After a 20 minute delay ( due to court bump), we resumed, with my match as the rubber match for the team. My opponent seemed on the verge of tapping out from cramping from the beginning of the set, so I kept purposely extending the rallies, but somehow the dude kept competing.

He finally seized up with full body cramps as he plowed into the back curtain when I drop-shot/lobbed him one last time on match point. I felt a bit ashamed at the display of ugly tennis I subjected my team to, but they were all grateful for my decisive win.

But after 2.5h+ of singles last night, I decided to cancel my scheduled singles for tonight to avoid high injury risk. I was on verge of cramping myself.
Click to expand...

Congrats on solving a tough problem real-time!
 
T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
TimeToPlaySets said:
You changed your strategy while leading 5-1 ?
Click to expand...
Almost every game had gone to deuce, and at 5-2, my opponent had just discovered that my forehand was getting shakier and he had started to pick on it. If I kept try to hit out against a backboard opponent who never made unforced errors, it was obvious that the momentum would have turned fast. I think my best chance to close it out given my rusty state was to set up the prevent D and turn the match into a physical battle rather than a skills contest.
 
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Wise one

Wise one

Hall of Fame
TimeToPlaySets said:
By the time one gets to 4.0, they have learned the secret rule of winning tennis.
"Hit the ball inside the white lines"
This obscure arcane rule is not known by lower ranked players, or so you'd think.

3.5 on the other hand, does not understand how to win matches.
They just smash and lose. They seem to hate the pusher because he's not playing real tennis.

To get to 4.0, you need to dial back your strokes and keep the ball in.
As a result, I have never heard a 4.0 player bash a pusher.
The 4.0 respects the pushers consistency.

"The guy is a damn pusher" is the scarlet letter of a 3.5
Click to expand...


I remember playing a fellow at the clay courts who was maybe 3.0 or 3.5 about 9 years ago. He wanted to play a lot of matches, so he signed up to the club singles league (which I organized), but most of the players were 4.0 or higher. I beat him easily playing my s/v-touch game (volleys, drop shots, lobs, sliced approach shots, etc.). I ran into him later, and he said that he had lost to someone else who hit the ball harder and looked more formidable, but he felt that my game was more effective. He said that he thought he had no chance against me after a few games. This is part of learning how to improve. I'm not a 'pusher' by any means, but I don't swing wildly or cower at the baseline. I used to. But I got better.

 
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Traffic

Traffic

Hall of Fame
Hm, played my first USTA doubles match of the year. Boy did I suck. No net play is the kiss of death in doubles.
To our opponents credit, they had very few unforced errors. They didn't do anything spectacular. But just kept the ball in play and volleyed ok.

They and our team had the same goal. Get the ball over the net one more time than the opponent. None of us were bunting the ball. But no one was crushing it either.

Everyone strives for the "pusher" style at this level. But it's not about bunting the ball over. And I don't think that's what OP is referring to. It's just not crushing the ball to try to put the point away quickly.
 
tlm

tlm

G.O.A.T.
I play a grinder style that some would call pushing, but so far I am 3-1 in the 4.0 league that I am playing in.
 
tlm

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Traffic said:
Hm, played my first USTA doubles match of the year. Boy did I suck. No net play is the kiss of death in doubles.
To our opponents credit, they had very few unforced errors. They didn't do anything spectacular. But just kept the ball in play and volleyed ok.

They and our team had the same goal. Get the ball over the net one more time than the opponent. None of us were bunting the ball. But no one was crushing it either.

Everyone strives for the "pusher" style at this level. But it's not about bunting the ball over. And I don't think that's what OP is referring to. It's just not crushing the ball to try to put the point away quickly.
Click to expand...

Good point there is a difference between pushing and playing smart.
 
Z

zaph

Professional
TimeToPlaySets said:
What level did you progress to?
What level were the pushers with bad form? 3.5 or 4.0?
Click to expand...

I can't answer your question, because I am British. USTA levels are standard on this forum, but we don't use them.

I am good enough to win matches at lowest tier LTA events, but even that doesn't say much, because these are open to players of wildly different levels. Some are club players who have played little competitive tennis, others play allot of tournements, others are young players trying to get ranking points.

The latter can be of a very high standard and against a few I have barely won a point. However considering they have ambitions of playing at a high level and far more talent than I will ever have; this doesn't really bother me.
 
Traffic

Traffic

Hall of Fame
tlm said:
Good point there is a difference between pushing and playing smart.
Click to expand...
We finally cleaned up our act the 2nd set. Our opponents had very little UE. Most points were won on forced errors from good volley. Groundstrokes were solid, but no one was going for the one-shot kills.
 
F

Frank Silbermann

Professional
TimeToPlaySets said:
(Most 3.5's) ... just smash and lose. They seem to hate the pusher because he's not playing real tennis.
... To get to 4.0, you need to dial back your strokes and keep the ball in. ...
Click to expand...

"Dialing back your strokes to keep the ball in" is what I call "pushing." Such people win at all levels.

It's just that at higher levels, people can look good and hit pretty good shots while pushing. Non-pushers (i.e. those who apply a lot of muscle to the racket) can't beat anybody, except at the lowest levels of the game, and even then, it's only until they meet someone who dials back their strokes to keep the ball in.
 
Dartagnan64

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
vex said:
Have u even seen a vid of this guy beating a 3.5 in a real USTA match?
Click to expand...

I've seen him lose to a 4.5 and not make a total fool of himself which is more than I've seen from most posters on this board.

But his pusher threads are getting a bit dreary. Especially since its not clear that there is even a standard definition of the beast.

To me pushers are guys that just bunt balls back and never hit with spin or pace, mostly playing defensively and always quick with the lob. To others, pushers are baseliners with solid groundstrokes that never step into the court to hit winners and just await your inevitable self destruction.
The former are annoying to play against, the latter are a solid workout for both your brain and heart.
 
Traffic

Traffic

Hall of Fame
Dartagnan64 said:
I've seen him lose to a 4.5 and not make a total fool of himself which is more than I've seen from most posters on this board.

But his pusher threads are getting a bit dreary. Especially since its not clear that there is even a standard definition of the beast.

To me pushers are guys that just bunt balls back and never hit with spin or pace, mostly playing defensively and always quick with the lob. To others, pushers are baseliners with solid groundstrokes that never step into the court to hit winners and just await your inevitable self destruction.
The former are annoying to play against, the latter are a solid workout for both your brain and heart.
Click to expand...
I feel like TTPS's own definition of "pusher" has probably evolved since 6mos ago. I'm sure back last spring/summer, it was bunting and slicing back. But I think his definition is probably not taking 100% swings to get try for a winner shot. But rather dialing back with a moderate stroke that has high percentage.

Jumping around with the "pusher" banner just makes for added discussions. Maybe sometimes too a little too often. But I have my "don't play with poly too long in your racquet" rant going all the time and sound like a broken record for those "new" to exploring re-stringing their racquets.
 
navigator

navigator

Hall of Fame
I'm trying to think of a single reason why someone would even care if they were called a pusher... Who... cares? It's a mind over matter issue. You shouldn't mind because that person's opinion doesn't matter.
 
U

ubercat

Hall of Fame
I played my mate who's been learning to play over the last 3 months yesterday.

Is amazingly talented already has some natural kill shots. But he's been getting cocky because he is a proud guy. So I gave him a 3 game handicap on each set and only served flat midpace. And delivered the reality check.

I bunted, sliced, looped and lobbed. He s seen me smack the ball plenty of times. And he's naturally one of those guys who wants to lay the SmackDown and thinks power tennis is the only way to win. I don't meet many real pushers in my comp but I do meet plenty of fellow junk ballers

I love to turn my opponents pace shots back into moon balls. But I have a Lights Out forehand and a good sliced smash which is why I regard myself as a junk baller rather than a pusher.

Anyway my own reality check is soon enough. Back to the a grade in two weeks time. Playing all those 25 year olds with my 50-year-old legs.
 
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