How to beat a damn pusher.

[optic yellow]

The problem is: you are asking wrong questions.

For example. Question: which level can hit consistent topspin shots?
ALL.... wait... NONE.... (maybe leave out absolute beginner).

A 3.0 who learned to hit topspin, can hit top spin shots ALL day against a consistently fed ball, if he is not trying to get pace and depth of a 4.0.
A 4.0 can hit top spin shots ALL day against a consistently fed ball, if he is not trying to get pace and depth of a 4.5.
A 4.0 can hit top spin shots ALL day against a consistently fed ball, if he is not trying to get pace and depth of a 5.0.
A 5.0 can hit top spin shots ALL day against a consistently fed ball, if he is not trying to get pace and depth of a 5.5.

On a match... a 5.0 is not going to make silly errors when hitting neutral topspin balls against a 4.5. But everything changes when he is playing a match against another 5.0 at his same level, this is because of two reasons, a) He knows he has to do more to be assertive and in control of the point, so he is going for more b) The incoming ball is more assertive than before, and so it makes it harder from placement/depth/pace/heavyness of incoming ball.

This is why probably everyone answers that "magic consistency is 0.5 level above them"... because that is what they probably see when they play with that 0.5 level person above. And yea that 0.5 level person below, or same level misses too many... when they play with them.

So in summary...... one person control only "half" of the things on the court. How good or how bad he is on court is determined also by the person on the other side of the net.

A well trained coach, who can feed balls perfectly can make a 3.0 feel like a 5.0

This is not just in rec level. @optic yellow if you watch enough pro matches on TV, you see this all the time. Someone who was distroying opponents along the way on early rounds, and seems like untouchable, and superskilled, come up against big3 on their good day, and becomes nobody. That consistent attacking player immediately becomes a super errattic player, who cannot keep 3 balls in a row on court.

I see the concept you are trying to explain and agree with it. This does mean one level is defined by the ability to hit topspin and then from there subsequent levels are defined by the amount of overall heaviness the player is capable of putting on the ball?

 

[SV10is]

Yeah of course you are not going to try to overhit that ball, but spin it and place it, the more you are inside the court the less pace you need, because the court opens up, i was refering to that thing that a lot of rec players do, getting a short ball, just slice it to put it back in play, and get back again to continue the rally, if you cant take profit of a short ball somehow, you are doomed to just wait for your opponent to make a mistake

It depends on what the ball looks like, what shots you can reliably make and where you make contact. But a slice approach can be done well and it is not unlikely to earn you a feasible volley.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

What I just don't understand is why rating is used so frequently when people are talking about player skill if it has so much more to do with results. To answer your original question that is why I conflated them. It does seem like there is some real value in having a number that can represent player skill in the game that exists independent of some unique environmental condition if people are constantly misusing NTRP rating for this purpose.

Using NTRP instead of skills is what behavioral psychologists call a heuristic: a mental shortcut. If someone asks me "Have you played John Doe? How good is he?" and I reply "He's a mid-4.0.", the asker will have a decent idea of how good John is. He then might ask me about more specifics. If I only give him a set of skills, it won't be as concise: my description could lead him to conclude a level too high or too low [maybe more].

The more accurate the rating system [none are perfect], the closer the rating will reflect the skills.

Your example of environmental conditions is a spanner in the works: I'm a mid-4.5 but I'm not at all conditioned for heat and humidity nor altitude nor cold nor non-hard court nor indoors. Any combination of those would likely significantly degrade my game, at least until I could acclimate.

And these factors do not show up in any NTRP description. So in that sense there could be a regional difference due to such variables but I doubt it would lead to an entire NTRP level discrepancy and the effect would not be permanent.

 

[nyta2]

Just beat a pusher 6-3, 6-2 and you will all say that is not very impressive. That is my first point of this post, if you go out onto court expecting to destroy a pusher, win every point and win without trying, you will lose. In my defence I have won 8 in a row in my local singles league, 7 of them against junkers/pusher but I also dropped a set in most of those matches. Give pushers and especially junkers respect, otherwise you'ill lose.

What made the difference for me is I have stopped trying to blast pushers off the court from the baseline and embraced the short ball. Unless you are having a very good day, you are not going to overpower a pusher from the back of the court. Instead use your superior spin, power and control to move them about. Useless you say because a damn pusher never misses, so what is the point of moving them? You're doing it to get them to cough up a short ball you can actually attack.

It is much easier to beat a pusher when you are higher up the court because it takes some of their time away. My standard tactic is pretty obvious, get on the forehand, target their backhand corner and wait till they hit short. In the old days I would have either blasted long or into the net at this point, I dreaded the short ball. The reason I did this is I tried to hit a winner with sheer pace, I felt I had to hit it really hard to beat the human wall.

Don't do that, you are not playing Djokovic, it doesn't have to be that good. Instead pick a spot on the court and aim to place the ball there. Yes hit it with spin and a bit of power but don't blast it. Hit in a controlled way. I basically aim for these places in that situation. Down the line, short angled ball or straight at the pusher, depending on where I am on the court. The last sounds nuts, straight at the pusher, after all they never miss but it works. Do it right and it is like a body serve, they can't get out of the way.

Don't be afraid to take a leaf out of the pushers book, if you are off balance or in a bad position, swallow your pride and play defensive. For example, I struggle to generate pace with backhand, so if I get a paceless ball on the side I can't run round, I hit a deep slice to stay in the rally. If I am forced backwards from the forecourt, I run back and hit a moonball to stay in the rally. You have to believe you are better than the pusher and not be afraid of staying in the point till you can take control back.

On the serve I actually play two spin second serves, one hit harder than the other. This sounds crazy, why give up potential free points against a human wall? The reason is, the pusher very rarely hits a double fault, so if you do you can find the score board pressure starts to build up and crush you. I have confidence I can beat the pusher in the rally, so I don't need to risk missing the serve.

On their serves I recommend moving up the court, standing so most of the service boxes is on your stronger side and really attacking it. Just like the short ball, place it into one of the spots. The pusher is often most vulnerable straight after their service action and it is a good time to try and get the ball past them.

One last piece of advice, don't get lazy and stop moving your feet. If you expect the match to be easy and disrespect your opponent, you will lose. I am still guilty of this myself. For example I lost a point when I hit a very good backhand drive down the line. I was in the lead, so indulged myself a bit. I stood their admiring the shot like I was playing golf, never expecting my opponent to run it down. He did, shanked it off the frame and it turned into a dropshot down the middle and he won the point.

In the old days I would I have been outraged, how dare the damn pusher win that point, it wasn't fair, it was a brilliant shot. This time I was outraged at myself, I lost that point due to my arrogance, I should I have expected the ball to come back and moved so I had a chance of doing something about it. The pusher played well, they played good tennis, they put the work in and got the ball back. It was my fault that happened and I congratulated my opponent on his good play.

Basically I am saying, if you want to win you have to put maximum effort in, accept pushers are tough opponents and don't get down if you lose games or even drop a set. Be confident in what you are doing and most of the time you will eventually get the win.

was watching wta players at the bronx open practice recently... doing the same drills us rec folks do (cc, 2cross-1dtl, x drills, etc...)... they all "push" (aka don't miss), but they just "push" at a much higher quality

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

was watching wta players at the bronx open practice recently... doing the same drills us rec folks do (cc, 2cross-1dtl, x drills, etc...)... they all "push" (aka don't miss), but they just "push" at a much higher quality

Let's respect the english language and not use push or pusher to describe anything a professional tennis player does.

 

[LuckyR]

Let's respect the english language and not use push or pusher to describe anything a professional tennis player does.

I prefer "high consistancy" as it is more descriptive and not pejorative.

 

[optic yellow]

pusher = someone who hits back with a pushing stroke
backboard = someone who returns everything with a low error rate

Pushers are often backboards so I think that is where the conflation of terms comes from.