Is Murray the greatest British sportsman ?

T

Tennisgods

Hall of Fame
BorgTheGOAT said:
If we consider Lewis a Brit than surely he is greater than Murray. He was on top of his sport for several years and can be mentioned in GOAT debates without a problem, two things Murray does not have. Boxing is not a joke sport either.
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Confession coming up; I have an issue with boxing and motorsport in this debate. Just not a huge fan of guys punching each other to be honest. And driving fast cars around? Jesus. But I appreciate that I don’t get to choose what applies and what doesn’t, so fair do’s.

I don’t know, I just think Murray was battling history...Fred Perry was an awful long time ago. All that pressure at Wimbledon. There had been good snooker players, good racing car drivers, good boxers before all those more recent big names. Britain hadn’t had a male Wimbledon champion for so long. And our record in Davis Cup was so embarrassing. He led British tennis to success, it was never just about him. In an individual sport, he’s stood tallest when representing the country, Davis Cup and 2 Olympic Golds!

I just think he’s right up there, one of the greatest if not the greatest Brit sportsman.
 
T

Tennisgods

Hall of Fame
ibbi said:
I don't know that there is one guy I'd pick outright, but as a tennis fan I'm partial to Fred Perry. Ronnie (and Hendry before him) are the two greatest snooker players that ever lived with a stupid long list of records. Daley Thompson's got to be up there, Coe, Lennox Lewis, Redgrave, and the long list of cricketers I'd never discount because those former colonies are all pretty gosh darn good! I also hate Lewis Hamilton with a passion, but it pains me to say he's up there too. That's not even getting into all the footballers.

Murray has been revolutionary for British sport, but seeing how he climbed from boy who could barely make it through a 5 set match, to one of the strongest players on tour, ender of generations long droughts in the Davis Cup and at Wimbledon makes me wonder why he couldn't climb higher still? It's not physical, it's mental. He was made to look ordinary by not 1, not 2, but 3 of his peers, and I'm not sure you should be able to say that about the greatest of all time.
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Daley Thompson, good call. Gotta be right up there. And of course Perry’s record arguably eclipses Murray’s (hard to compare across eras, so different).

I think Murray had to build himself into a machine to keep up with modern tennis and that, as you point out, it maybe didn’t come naturally in that sense, the physical side. Hence breaking himself in the end! But he’s let no one down, especially not us Brits. He’s one of our best, without question. Not trying to say he was a mental giant, but he certainly stood tall often enough to earn his place.
 
T

Tennisgods

Hall of Fame
Mainad said:
You're not just splitting hairs you're plain wrong. Northern Ireland is part of the UK and all parts of the UK are British.
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My understanding is different, it’s the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Northern Ireland is part of the UK, not Great Britain. But no worries if i’m wrong (I most likely am!) Best was a great footballer but he’s arguably better remembered for off field exploits than any contribution he made to British sport.

Anyway, who knows. Today’s match was a fitting end, if indeed it is.
 
T

Tennisgods

Hall of Fame
Mainad said:
You're not just splitting hairs you're plain wrong. Northern Ireland is part of the UK and all parts of the UK are British.
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Just checked, looks like you’re right; under the Good Friday agreement, citizens can choose to be British citizens, Irish citizens or both! I stand corrected.
 
iopzzza

iopzzza

Rookie
Ryan Giggs , Ronnie О'sulluvian... After all Ryan is the most decorated player in history of football :) Nothing againsy Andy though
 
Grey Wolf 87

Grey Wolf 87

Rookie
kevaninho said:
What? The guy who learned his trade in Canada, with Jamaican parents, and represented Canada at the Olympics? LOL

He only became British for his career.
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So?

The question was who is the greatest British sportsman.

Even by your explanation, he is still British...regardless of how or why that came to be.
 
kevaninho

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
Grey Wolf 87 said:
So?

The question was who is the greatest British sportsman.

Even by your explanation, he is still British...regardless of how or why that came to be.
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I prefer people who represented GB from the beginning. He only used a loophole to be British for funding :rolleyes:. But yeah I don't really care , its my opinion at the end of the day . ;)
 
lud

lud

Hall of Fame
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TheIntrovert

TheIntrovert

Hall of Fame
Jim Clark
Stirling Moss
Jackie Stewart
Mo Farah

@-NN- I’m speechless after reading so much ignorance to F1 in this thread
 
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RaulRamirez

RaulRamirez

Legend
As an American - and one who doesn't really follow snooker (of all things) and what we would consider (if unfairly) lesser sports - the first names that would come to mind for me would be - not necessarily in order - Fred Perry, Daley Thompson, Nick Faldo and Murray. Not sure if Beckham has done enough, or I'm missing a huge futbol star.
 
Otacon

Otacon

Hall of Fame
iopzzza said:
Ryan Giggs , Ronnie О'sulluvian... After all Ryan is the most decorated player in history of football :) Nothing againsy Andy though
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Yeah but never done anything with Wales, it's not his fault, but Euros and World Cup count a lot.
 
3lite

3lite

Professional
Objectively, he may be.

But we live in reality and I don't see the consensus ranking Murray above a George Best.
 
diggler

diggler

Hall of Fame
kevaninho said:
I guess you only count the world titles that Hamilton won, which btw, has only been 'dominant' the past 5 years, winning 4 of the last 5 titles.
Whats about the 5 seasons before them, where his best championship finish was 4th?
For a guy who was given everything from Ron Dennis, hes not been as dominant as he should've been.
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I don't know much about motor racing but Vettel used to win all the time now Hamilton wins all the time. It seems it is all about the car not the driver.
 
kevaninho

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
BlueB said:
I can't even fathom that someone is trying to pass snooker as a sport?

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
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I enjoy playing the game from time to time. But I couldn't possibly put it in the same bracket as tennis, football etc.
The same applies to darts.
 
S

snr

Semi-Pro
LOL @ anyone who considers Darts and Snooker a sport and not F1. (I consider them all sports for the record, but if pressed to order, I would have to put F1 above the other 2 in terms of physicality).

The physical shape both physical and mental you have to be in to sit in a car for those laps and also make the minute movements while under all those G's needs to be commended.

I'm not sure if you guys are car guys out there but as an avid tennis player, when I am exhausted after a day at the race track and I am under a fraction of the G's that an F1 car would go under. The focus required almost drains you physically too.

Funny, I've heard the opposite... that the only real sports are combat, mountain climbing and motor sports; the rest are games.
 
B

Bluefan75

Professional
snr said:
LOL @ anyone who considers Darts and Snooker a sport and not F1. (I consider them all sports for the record, but if pressed to order, I would have to put F1 above the other 2 in terms of physicality).

The physical shape both physical and mental you have to be in to sit in a car for those laps and also make the minute movements while under all those G's needs to be commended.

I'm not sure if you guys are car guys out there but as an avid tennis player, when I am exhausted after a day at the race track and I am under a fraction of the G's that an F1 car would go under. The focus required almost drains you physically too.

Funny, I've heard the opposite... that the only real sports are combat, mountain climbing and motor sports; the rest are games.
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That's the problem with F1 in a discussion like that. It is incredibly taxing, and does require a great deal of physical qualities. The problem is, it's difficult to separate the drivers when the cars are so vastly different. There are 4, or depending on the track, 6 cars that can win a given race barring major crashes. So, how many drivers in the back of the pack would do as well in the Merc/Scuderia?

At least snooker/darts, it's the man himself. Unless O'Sullivan has some magic cue we've never discovered....
 
S

snr

Semi-Pro
Bluefan75 said:
That's the problem with F1 in a discussion like that. It is incredibly taxing, and does require a great deal of physical qualities. The problem is, it's difficult to separate the drivers when the cars are so vastly different. There are 4, or depending on the track, 6 cars that can win a given race barring major crashes. So, how many drivers in the back of the pack would do as well in the Merc/Scuderia?

At least snooker/darts, it's the man himself. Unless O'Sullivan has some magic cue we've never discovered....
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Very fair. Its one of these sports where equipment varies differently. The best teams generally recruit the best drivers but that's hardly scientific.

My problem isn't disqualifying F1 from a discussion like this, it was more the fact that people said that F1 isn't a sport because people drive a car around...
 
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