What changed for Djokovic from July 2014 to change career trajectory ?

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Djokovic's mentality improved immensely. He has often said that marriage and especially the birth of his son brought an incredible amount of stability to his career. When he returned after the birth of his son, he looked so mentally serene, confident and in control of his emotions. I felt that the moment he returned and spoke about how he has this very relaxed but still focused mindset and how having a family has helped him from an emotional and mental perspective.

Having such a strong powerful energy in his outside life for me created the Zen Djokovic, something I used to call him when he returned. He was checking out mentally less and less, while the frustrations were there at certain points, he was doing much better at gathering his emotions and channelling them into his tennis. He started to clutch out wins that he simply didn't have the mindset correct for in the previous seasons. The overall game was improving under the influence of Becker also, who helped him create a blue print for beating Nadal, among other things.

A good coach player relationship can do wonders, and Djokovic had an incredible amount of respect and admiration for Becker, who was a wealth of untapped knowledge in regards to not only strategies, but also the psychology of the game and how to deal with certain issues. There is no way the Djokovic of the past would have dealt with over 20K NYC fans out for his blood the way he did in 2015 for example. Becker gave him a drive and focus of his own, which only enhanced Novak's own aura out there.

The more he won, the more his aura grew, the more players felt beaten before they even played him, kind of like Federer and Nadal before him. He also grew more a player as far as shot selection was concerned to make up for a slight decline in his physicality that he had back in 2011.
 

DjokoLand

Hall of Fame
Between the start 2011-2015 he went from 1-8 slams in 4 years so it’s not a big jump. He only had 2 slams at 24.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Athletes can extend their shelf life due to fitness, science, coaches and technological advances. But one does not defy age.

How do we explain having twice the success after age 27 ?

The only parallel we have seen in Serena Williams and there everyone acknowledges that her competition is completely different between what she had in the first half of her career and the next.
You are talking about one single player having this level of success. There are always outliers. And it’s not like Novak wins everything.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Navratilova actually improved in her later years.

I don't think any sane person will say Djokovic after 2018, when winning 5 majors is a better player than what he was before.

Would any sane person say he hadn't improved parts of his game at 27 and 28, and when he won 5/6 Slams?
 

UnforcedTerror

Hall of Fame
Well he started winning finals instead of losing them. That's the difference simply.

Becker really fixed what was wrong with Djokovic's head.
 

FedeRadi

Rookie
You are considering different time spans. So raw data are not very significative and H2Hs are skewed by pre-prime Djokovic.

Elo trajectory for the average player(Born in '60s and '80s):
felix1.png

(Source: Heavy Top Spin)

You can notice that career peak, nowadays, is 26/27 years old, but decline is way slower than rise. The level at 24 is similiar to the level at 33.

If you takes data from 24-27 Djokovic and 27-Nowadays Djokovic they don't differ so much.
Post "theoretical peak" Djokovic is slighty better, and I think it has to do with competition(2011-2014 was probably the most competitive era in tennis, with, maybe, early 80s).
 
O

OhYes

Guest
Clown, no one asked you to come into my thread. Buzz off now.
It's beyond my imagination that you still can dwell here so wretched and crumbled after all those pathetic losses your fav had lately, and all those hopes you showed in match threads. What in world pushes you forward ? Some imaginary legacy ? Beautiful backhands ? :cautious: Go hide you pathetic excuse of a fan.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
I don't think anything magical happened, though the addition of Becker might have been a significant catalyst. Anyone who saw Djokovic play at the level he did in 2011 knew he was a very great player. All ATG's have ups and downs (Nadal 2015, Fed 2013), and Novak came back big time in 2015. The fact he had no younger players as a rival also helped his results considerably.
 

duaneeo

Legend
Djokovic was 27 years and 2 months at Wimb 2014. Pretty much peak for any tennis player is over in tennis history.

Why is his career graph UNIQUE in open era ?

With the absence of strong Lost-Generation/Next-Generation players, the current top-3 players in mens tennis are the same players who were top-3 two generations earlier in 2007! Federer and Nadal started consistently winning slams 8 and 6 years earlier than Djokovic, and by 2014 Wimbledon their battle-worn games had declined to the point that Nole could finally dominate their rivalries:

Djokovic's H2H vs Fedal up to USO2010: 2-9
Djokovic's H2H vs Fedal from 2011 - RG2014: 6-6
Djokovic's H2H vs Fedal from Wim2014 - present: 9-0
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
It's beyond my imagination that you still can dwell here so wretched and crumbled after all those pathetic losses your fav had lately, and all those hopes you showed in match threads. What in world pushes you forward ? Some imaginary legacy ? Beautiful backhands ? :cautious: Go hide you pathetic excuse of a fan.

I am not a coward like you,remember ? You, along with your ilk went into hiding 2 years at a stretch and came back to gloat when Wimb 18, happened .

Federer's losses will not bother me at all. His success, style and substance on the court will be something to behold for ever and ever.

Now stop yapping and get out.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
With the absence of strong Lost-Generation/Next-Generation players, the current top-3 players in mens tennis are the same players who were top-3 two generations earlier in 2007! Federer and Nadal started consistently winning slams 8 and 6 years earlier than Djokovic, and by 2014 Wimbledon their battle-worn games had declined to the point that Nole could finally dominate their rivalries:

Djokovic's H2H vs Fedal up to USO2010: 2-9
Djokovic's H2H vs Fedal from 2011 - RG2014: 6-6
Djokovic's H2H vs Fedal from Wim2014 - present: 9-0

Wow.. The last to age has so much advantage to enjoy !!
 

Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
A better Wawrinka and also Nadal at RG.

Fed was the same both years, average at best and Murray was at pigeon level following surgery.
Fed was better in 2015. That's not even a dicussion. Especially from Wimledon to the USO. Murray was losing to Djokovic and Federer but that's pretty much it. While in 2014 he couldn't beat a lot of players.

Wawrinka was the same in both years. If anything he was slightly better at RG 15 than at AO 14.

Nadal being trash in 2015 doesn't make up for the rest of the players.
 

6august

Hall of Fame
I don't know about this, but I know something else:

Among Big 3, Nadal and Djoko won their maiden Slams before 20yo - despite having the amount of talent in their whole bodies less than Kyrgios has in one finger. Meanwhile, Federer, the most talented player of all time, hasn't won anything until 22!

Moreover, Fred peaked very late but got old very soon. Left his prime at 27yo and become a Grandpa at 29 (29!!!).

Tennis in particular and the world in general is full of surprises.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Fed was better in 2015. That's not even a dicussion. Especially from Wimledon to the USO. Murray was losing to Djokovic and Federer but that's pretty much it. While in 2014 he couldn't beat a lot of players.

Wawrinka was the same in both years. If anything he was slightly better at RG 15 than at AO 14.

Nadal being trash in 2015 doesn't make up for the rest of the players.
He was about the same level effectiveness vs Djokovic. I didn’t notice any significant improvement from Fed in his game.

murray sucked as usual in their AO match
 

doparrained

New User
27 is not old in tennis today at all. At worst it is mid career. People talk about Thiem as one of the up and comers still and he turns 27 this year.

I wouldn't be surprised if we tallied all the slam winners in mens and womens tennis this decade if there were more combined after the 27th birthday than before. In fact I am almost sure of it.

Djokovic winning more than half of his slams after turning 27 is not a surprise. In fact in todays game it is quite normal.
 
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OhYes

Guest
I am not a coward like you,remember ? You, along with your ilk went into hiding 2 years at a stretch and came back to gloat when Wimb 18, happened .

Federer's losses will not bother me at all. His success, style and substance on the court will be something to behold for ever and ever.

Now stop yapping and get out.

If being a coward means that you choose smart where you can read good things and feel fine overall, then I am such coward, and I'm proud of it. I don't need to be part of your petulant dance macabre so you or anybody else on this forum would call me 'true fan'. Not a kid anymore.

As for you and your bravery, we saw what happened after Wimby 2019. It doesn't take to be fortune teller and imagine scenery around here when Fed's 20 gets passed by 2 players.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
If being a coward means that you choose smart where you can read good things and feel fine overall, then I am such coward, and I'm proud of it. I don't need to be part of your petulant dance macabre so you or anybody else on this forum would call me 'true fan'. Not a kid anymore.

As for you and your bravery, we saw what happened after Wimby 2019. It doesn't take to be fortune teller and imagine scenery around here when Fed's 20 gets passed by 2 players.

Hey coward , glad that you accept you are one . At least some honesty can do you good

As far as we are concerned , we were there then , we are here now and will be there in future .
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
27 is not old in tennis today at all. At worst it is mid career. People talk about Thiem as one of the up and comers still and he turns 27 this year.

I wouldn't be surprised if we tallied all the slam winners in mens and womens tennis this decade if there were more combined after the 27th birthday than before. In fact I am almost sure of it.

Djokovic winning more than half of his slams after turning 27 is not a surprise. In fact in todays game it is quite normal.
It is normal because mostly under 30 sucks.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I don't know about this, but I know something else:

Among Big 3, Nadal and Djoko won their maiden Slams before 20yo - despite having the amount of talent in their whole bodies less than Kyrgios has in one finger. Meanwhile, Federer, the most talented player of all time, hasn't won anything until 22!

Moreover, Fred peaked very late but got old very soon. Left his prime at 27yo and become a Grandpa at 29 (29!!!).

Tennis in particular and the world in general is full of surprises.
Nobody could have seen back yo back crap generations coming, so now 29 seems young.
 
O

OhYes

Guest
Hey coward , glad that you accept you are one . At least some honesty can do you good

As far as we are concerned , we were there then , we are here now and will be there in future .
What is worse, you don't even care what are you saying. Grown man having childish reasoning is not something to be proud of. Unless you're an idiot.
But go ahead, tell me how big coward I am bcs I choose what to do with my time and who to hang out with. :rolleyes:
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I sometimes like the hypocrisy of some people:

Fed dominates and then doesn't => weak era fraud who got exposed by superior competition.

Novak's record in slam finals isn't great and then it greatly improves => he improved his serve and mental strength, no talk of competition.

This forum is great.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
The day I also see your research publications

We had a bet and I will enforce it via TTW administration (and by any possible means) if required. No way that you could get away with it. You will not be here, I guarantee. There are 2 things that can save you, 1) Djokovic not reaching 21GS or 2) my death.
 

Enceladus

Legend
Djoker improved his service and mental strength, these are the reasons why his balance in the Grand Slam finals has radically improved. Notes about weaker competition are just sour grapes.
 

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
Murray went on to have his best year on the tour ever in 2016, winning Wimbledon, reaching 2 other major finals, and ending the year #1.
And Roger won 3/5 slams in 17/18 to reclaim the number 1 spot at the age of 36. Doesn't mean he was as good a player as he was at 24.

Its a very common opinion that 12/13 was peak Murray, even if the results were worse than 16.
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
I sometimes like the hypocrisy of some people:

Fed dominates and then doesn't => weak era fraud who got exposed by superior competition.

Novak's record in slam finals isn't great and then it greatly improves => he improved his serve and mental strength, no talk of competition.

This forum is great.
Lol, exactly. The competition in 2012-2013 was way tougher than in 2015-2016, it's not even close.
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
And Roger won 3/5 slams in 17/18 to reclaim the number 1 spot at the age of 36. Doesn't mean he was as good a player as he was at 24.

Its a very common opinion that 12/13 was peak Murray, even if the results were worse than 16.
Murray's 2016 is extremely overrated. He played 2 terrible slam finals in AO and RG, and these are the matches that really matter. Also lost to Nishikori at the USO. So he just won 1 slam that year, and this is a slam where his toughest opponent was Raonic. He played pretty well only in BO3 that year, not in BO5. To me it's 100% clear he was a much better player in 2012 than in 2016.
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
It is not Fed that is unique. Every single ATG declined after 26/27. Even Nadal had won 12 majors before 27 and won only 7 after, 4 of which were clay.

Only Djokovic career graph is different. Why ?

Weakest young generation ever, declining rivals (especially Federer who is 5 years his senior), relative mug as main rival in Murray.

When someone had the balls to stand up to him like Wawrinka, he often lost.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Murray's 2016 is extremely overrated. He played 2 terrible slam finals in AO and RG, and these are the matches that really matter. Also lost to Nishikori at the USO. So he just won 1 slam that year, and this is a slam where his toughest opponent was Raonic. He played pretty well only in BO3 that year, not in BO5. To me it's 100% clear he was a much better player in 2012 than in 2016.

Murrays extremely strong 2016 gets rarely talked about. How can it be overrated.

Three GS finals, won Wimbledon, won Olympic gold, won YECs, 3 masters, YE#1. He won 5 titles in a row to finish the year.
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
What bet is it?

If Djokovic wins 21 GS he/she needs to leave TTW forever; if Djokovic retires with 19 GS or less I have to leave TTW forever. If Djokovic wins 20 GS both can stay. Bet was agreed when Djokovic had 13 GS. I have the same bet with another 2 TTW posters. If he loses the bet, the precise moment of leaving TTW is set out to be the moment when Djokovic wins match point of his 21st GS.
 
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