Why Sinner is SinneGOAT

Rovesciarete · Oct 12, 2020

Player	Matches	RiP%	RiP W%	RetWnr%	Wnr FH%	RDI	Slice%	1st: RiP%	RiP W%	RetWnr%	RDI	Slice%	2nd: RiP%	RiP W%	RetWnr%
Diego Sebastian Schwartzman	13	79.5%	50.8%	3.0%	61.1%	2.40	8.1%	76.1%	44.4%	2.2%	2.36	11.1%	91.2%	59.9%	4.6%
Gael Monfils	13	73.0%	44.7%	4.3%	73.7%	2.36	18.0%	69.9%	40.3%	2.8%	2.30	26.1%	86.0%	51.8%	7.5%
Alex De Minaur	12	72.4%	48.0%	2.9%	41.4%	2.40	25.3%	68.7%	45.0%	1.1%	2.33	30.9%	89.7%	52.2%	6.6%
Casper Ruud	10	72.0%	47.2%	2.0%	43.8%	2.17	11.1%	68.1%	45.1%	1.2%	2.17	16.5%	84.5%	50.4%	3.8%
Roger Federer	10	71.2%	50.1%	4.3%	58.5%	2.05	15.3%	66.6%	50.1%	4.6%	1.98	23.2%	84.9%	50.2%	4.1%
Alexander Zverev	18	70.6%	46.0%	2.0%	41.9%	2.16	22.2%	64.6%	42.0%	1.3%	2.10	32.7%	88.5%	51.7%	3.5%
Rafael Nadal	13	70.3%	48.6%	2.7%	43.3%	2.33	10.0%	63.8%	42.2%	1.9%	2.29	14.6%	89.8%	57.9%	4.5%
Dominic Thiem	18	69.9%	49.8%	2.6%	61.2%	2.22	13.3%	66.4%	47.4%	2.5%	2.15	20.7%	85.7%	54.0%	3.0%
Daniil Medvedev	13	69.4%	46.8%	1.9%	57.1%	2.27	19.7%	62.4%	40.7%	1.2%	2.24	36.0%	90.3%	54.8%	3.6%
Novak Djokovic	19	69.4%	53.0%	1.9%	60.0%	2.18	20.6%	66.5%	49.1%	1.3%	2.17	27.1%	85.8%	59.0%	3.3%
Jannik Sinner	15	68.6%	52.4%	2.1%	61.9%	2.39	20.9%	65.4%	50.2%	1.5%	2.39	30.7%	83.1%	55.6%	3.6%
Andrey Rublev	14	68.4%	48.2%	4.9%	64.3%	2.30	17.6%	62.2%	45.7%	1.7%	2.30	27.9%	87.0%	51.5%	11.4%
Denis Shapovalov	14	68.2%	47.2%	2.4%	43.3%	2.24	8.5%	66.3%	43.7%	1.6%	2.14	13.5%	80.9%	53.1%	4.2%
Felix Auger Aliassime	11	68.1%	45.8%	2.4%	59.1%	2.23	13.0%	64.2%	43.8%	1.7%	2.18	21.7%	79.8%	48.6%	3.7%
Stefanos Tsitsipas	20	64.6%	46.4%	3.2%	60.4%	2.29	12.8%	59.3%	43.2%	2.6%	2.23	16.0%	81.1%	50.9%	4.7%

Rovesciarete · Oct 12, 2020

Combined with the overall Win percentage we get a pretty good picture. His results have been biased as a arguably played a bit more weaker opponents but he seems to be among the top returners of the game. He should be a bit higher if RG was all included as the surface facilitated returns...

Novak Djokovic	19	69.4%	53.0%	1.9%	60.0%	2.18	20.6%	66.5%	49.1%	1.3%	2.17	27.1%	85.8%	59.0%	3.3%
Jannik Sinner	15	68.6%	52.4%	2.1%	61.9%	2.39	20.9%	65.4%	50.2%	1.5%	2.39	30.7%	83.1%	55.6%	3.6%
Diego Sebastian Schwartzman	13	79.5%	50.8%	3.0%	61.1%	2.40	8.1%	76.1%	44.4%	2.2%	2.36	11.1%	91.2%	59.9%	4.6%
Roger Federer	10	71.2%	50.1%	4.3%	58.5%	2.05	15.3%	66.6%	50.1%	4.6%	1.98	23.2%	84.9%	50.2%	4.1%
Dominic Thiem	18	69.9%	49.8%	2.6%	61.2%	2.22	13.3%	66.4%	47.4%	2.5%	2.15	20.7%	85.7%	54.0%	3.0%
Rafael Nadal	13	70.3%	48.6%	2.7%	43.3%	2.33	10.0%	63.8%	42.2%	1.9%	2.29	14.6%	89.8%	57.9%	4.5%
Andrey Rublev	14	68.4%	48.2%	4.9%	64.3%	2.30	17.6%	62.2%	45.7%	1.7%	2.30	27.9%	87.0%	51.5%	11.4%
Alex De Minaur	12	72.4%	48.0%	2.9%	41.4%	2.40	25.3%	68.7%	45.0%	1.1%	2.33	30.9%	89.7%	52.2%	6.6%
Denis Shapovalov	14	68.2%	47.2%	2.4%	43.3%	2.24	8.5%	66.3%	43.7%	1.6%	2.14	13.5%	80.9%	53.1%	4.2%
Casper Ruud	10	72.0%	47.2%	2.0%	43.8%	2.17	11.1%	68.1%	45.1%	1.2%	2.17	16.5%	84.5%	50.4%	3.8%
Daniil Medvedev	13	69.4%	46.8%	1.9%	57.1%	2.27	19.7%	62.4%	40.7%	1.2%	2.24	36.0%	90.3%	54.8%	3.6%
Stefanos Tsitsipas	20	64.6%	46.4%	3.2%	60.4%	2.29	12.8%	59.3%	43.2%	2.6%	2.23	16.0%	81.1%	50.9%	4.7%
Alexander Zverev	18	70.6%	46.0%	2.0%	41.9%	2.16	22.2%	64.6%	42.0%	1.3%	2.10	32.7%	88.5%	51.7%	3.5%
Felix Auger Aliassime	11	68.1%	45.8%	2.4%	59.1%	2.23	13.0%	64.2%	43.8%	1.7%	2.18	21.7%	79.8%	48.6%	3.7%

Elimanted all the players with less the 10 games!

Rovesciarete · Oct 12, 2020

I found it fascinating that only players like de Minaur, Schwartzman and Monfils are the only one playing returns as deep as Sinner. I did also not realize that his slice rate was so high, I would have put it at mostly 15%...

Schwartzman and Shapovalav really stand out on how little the slice back.

thomasferrett · Oct 12, 2020

Dominic & Andrey said:
Maybe he will be the fusion of Berdych's groundstrokes and Djokovic's mental toughness

Even if Berdych had Djokovic's mental toughness he wouldn't be a great player. Berdych's main problems were a lack of physical talent as well as poor mental strength. His strokes weren't heavy at all, just quite pacey but flat (that's why he hit quite a fast shot despite slow racket head speed). Also he moved like a tin can on the court and had no defence. Those are glaring holes in his actual game, not just his mental toughness.

Cortana · Oct 12, 2020

He has a new fan.

He will replace Djokovic for me.

UnderratedSlam · Oct 12, 2020

No mention of his being German?

UnderratedSlam · Oct 12, 2020

Rovesciarete said:
I found it fascinating that only players like de Minaur, Schwartzman and Monfils are the only one playing returns as deep as Sinner. I did also not realize that his slice rate was so high, I would have put it at mostly 15%...

Schwartzman and Shapovalav really stand out on how little the slice back.

Tough to slice when you're a little taller than the net.

Schwarz is awesome, playing as well as he does with his height.

UnderratedSlam · Oct 12, 2020

Cortana said:
He has a new fan.

He will replace Djokovic for me.

He seems more like a replacement for Fedfans.

Rovesciarete · Oct 12, 2020

I will watch now the returns of Sinner more closely in the next games. Frankly his stats look a bit too good, I guess due to the opposition although he faced also some strong guys. I can not believe that he is among the best returners of the last twenty years. The numbers should return to the lower mean but on the other hand he is generally growing.

His serve looks actually rather weak for a guy of his size despite having made big strides compared to 2018.

Player	Matches	RoP W%	RiP%	RiP W%
Bjorn Borg	28	38,68%	73.40%	52.70%
Diego Sebastian Schwartzman	79	37,82%	73.30%	51.60%
Jannik Sinner	20	37,73%	72.00%	52.40%
Rafael Nadal	382	37,69%	74.20%	50.80%
Novak Djokovic	363	36,94%	70.90%	52.10%
Marcelo Rios	28	36,93%	71.30%	51.80%
Michael Chang	43	35,31%	70.20%	50.30%
David Nalbandian	39	35,26%	67.80%	52.00%
Roger Federer	515	35,05%	69.00%	50.80%
David Goffin	56	34,37%	66.10%	52.00%
Lleyton Hewitt	109	34,09%	67.50%	50.50%

Cortana · Nov 14, 2020

Srsly, this guy is the next big thing. Will win a slam in 2021/2022.

Jaferd · Nov 19, 2020

Cortana said:
Srsly, this guy is the next big thing. Will win a slam in 2021/2022.

Totally agree. His forehand and backhand are superb and he just needs a stronger serve to be very competitive. He's also going to get stronger in a couple of years. He's my top pick of all the next gens.

BackhandDTL · Nov 19, 2020

So much praise yet you spelled his name incorrectly

Deleted member 771911 · Nov 20, 2020

I like him a lot but his performance at RG versus Nadal makes me think he might not be as good as we are making him out to be.

Cortana · Nov 20, 2020

Devtennis01 said:
I like him a lot but his performance at RG versus Nadal makes me think he might not be as good as we are making him out to be.

You mean that he was troubling him more than Novak in the final? What's bad about being better than Djokovic at RG?

Deleted member 771911 · Nov 20, 2020

Cortana said:
You mean that he was troubling him more than Novak in the final? What's bad about being better than Djokovic at RG?

Let's not compare. Whataboutery never cuts it in a discussion.
Let's think instead of how well Sinner played in set 1 and then did not take his chances.

Start da Game · Nov 20, 2020

reading the title i thought for a second that sinneGOAT is actually sinner posting on talk tennis........

BeatlesFan · Dec 14, 2020

New article from today:

Jannik Sinner’s 2021: the Italian ready to emulate Roger Federer

At 19 years-old Jannik Sinner has numbers of crazy precocity. The Italian entered the record book in front of a tennis legend like Roger Federer. It was in fact on February 4th, 2001 when a very young Roger won his first title in a hard-fought match against Frenchman Julien Boutter with the result of 6-4 6-7 (7) 6-4.

On that occasion there was a few days left and Federer turned exactly 19 years and 6 months and Jannik was even faster than the Swiss Maestro. It was a different story for Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic who were even faster than Sinner.

The world of tennis in this 2020 has stood still for almost six months and who knows if Sinner could even anticipate these crazy numbers. November 14, 2020 could have been an incredibly important date for the world of men´s tennis: that was when Jannik Sinner defeated the Canadian Vasek Pospisil and conquered the ATP 250 in Sofia, his first career tournament.

But all this came out in the light of two years of constant improvements, under the wise guidance and management of Riccardo Piatti. The victory at the ATP next Gen Finals 2019 and the quarter-finals at Roland Garros 2020, where he lost in three sets against the eventual champion Rafael Nadal, put Jannik Sinner´s 2021: the Italian ready to emulate Roger Federering the Spaniard in difficulty especially in the first two sets.

That was perhaps the most difficult match for Rafa, during the Parisian fortnight that earned him his 20th Grand Slam.

A good dose of physique (being structured), talent and mental strength is Sinner. An incredible aspect for a young tennis player, especially for what we have seen after Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray and Stan Wawrinka, with the new generation struggling to take the legacy of these champions.

Rivers of words have been spent for all the younger tennis players of recent years: most of all Jannik Sinner seems to have the qualities to be the new star after the Big Three. The Italian looks like one that can handle pressure and tension.

His words after the triumph in Sofia are emblematic: “It is always special when a tennis player wins a tournament, this week I felt good and it was all special. Playing finals like these, winning 7-6 in the third is always tough.

But then if you win, I think it´s better to win like that rather than 6-16-1. I am happy with how the match went, I tried to stay there on every point and it was a special day. I thank the team that supports me on and off the pitch, I am happy to share this success with all of you and with them.

Congratulations also to Vasek, I know that today is really tough for you, I hope I can play more great matches like this against you and I wish you the best. Today was a really tough match, it´s nice to win my first title in the same week I won the Next Gen Atp Finals last year.

The camp this week was crazy and I am really very satisfied.” Humility, talent and desire to win: if this is not a winning mix …

https://chochilino.com/sport/tennis...1-the-italian-ready-to-emulate-roger-federer/

Rafa4LifeEver · Dec 14, 2020

BeatlesFan said:
New article from today:

Jannik Sinner’s 2021: the Italian ready to emulate Roger Federer

At 19 years-old Jannik Sinner has numbers of crazy precocity. The Italian entered the record book in front of a tennis legend like Roger Federer. It was in fact on February 4th, 2001 when a very young Roger won his first title in a hard-fought match against Frenchman Julien Boutter with the result of 6-4 6-7 (7) 6-4.

On that occasion there was a few days left and Federer turned exactly 19 years and 6 months and Jannik was even faster than the Swiss Maestro. It was a different story for Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic who were even faster than Sinner.

The world of tennis in this 2020 has stood still for almost six months and who knows if Sinner could even anticipate these crazy numbers. November 14, 2020 could have been an incredibly important date for the world of men´s tennis: that was when Jannik Sinner defeated the Canadian Vasek Pospisil and conquered the ATP 250 in Sofia, his first career tournament.

But all this came out in the light of two years of constant improvements, under the wise guidance and management of Riccardo Piatti. The victory at the ATP next Gen Finals 2019 and the quarter-finals at Roland Garros 2020, where he lost in three sets against the eventual champion Rafael Nadal, put Jannik Sinner´s 2021: the Italian ready to emulate Roger Federering the Spaniard in difficulty especially in the first two sets.

That was perhaps the most difficult match for Rafa, during the Parisian fortnight that earned him his 20th Grand Slam.

A good dose of physique (being structured), talent and mental strength is Sinner. An incredible aspect for a young tennis player, especially for what we have seen after Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray and Stan Wawrinka, with the new generation struggling to take the legacy of these champions.

Rivers of words have been spent for all the younger tennis players of recent years: most of all Jannik Sinner seems to have the qualities to be the new star after the Big Three. The Italian looks like one that can handle pressure and tension.

His words after the triumph in Sofia are emblematic: “It is always special when a tennis player wins a tournament, this week I felt good and it was all special. Playing finals like these, winning 7-6 in the third is always tough.

But then if you win, I think it´s better to win like that rather than 6-16-1. I am happy with how the match went, I tried to stay there on every point and it was a special day. I thank the team that supports me on and off the pitch, I am happy to share this success with all of you and with them.

Congratulations also to Vasek, I know that today is really tough for you, I hope I can play more great matches like this against you and I wish you the best. Today was a really tough match, it´s nice to win my first title in the same week I won the Next Gen Atp Finals last year.

The camp this week was crazy and I am really very satisfied.” Humility, talent and desire to win: if this is not a winning mix …

https://chochilino.com/sport/tennis...1-the-italian-ready-to-emulate-roger-federer/

I wish Good luck for the Italian teenager

USO · Apr 13, 2021

Tomorrow every true tennis fan is counting on you Sinner!

Omega_7000 · Apr 13, 2021

If Sinner doesn't get injured along the way he is bound to be a multi Slam winner

Omega_7000 · Apr 13, 2021

USO said:
Tomorrow every true tennis fan is counting on you Sinner!

It would be so good for tennis if he can pull it off but I fear we may end up with disappointment

USO · Apr 13, 2021

Omega_7000 said:
It would be so good for tennis if he can pull it off but I fear we may end up with disappointment

Sinner has a good shot tomorrow! I feel it.

daphne · Apr 13, 2021

Cortana said:
He has a new fan.

He will replace Djokovic for me.

Med 4 me.

Omega_7000 · Apr 13, 2021

USO said:
Sinner has a good shot tomorrow! I feel it.

His presser post match

USO · Apr 13, 2021

Omega_7000 said:
His presser post match

Over 16 minutes?

Sorry, it's too long for an interview unless it's Fedal.

Lendl and Federer Fan · Apr 13, 2021

SinneGOAT said:
Let me tell you all a story. The story of a little known Italian kid with a beautiful head of hair and... skiing!?! This Italian Stallion’s rise from skiing to the (superior) sport of tennis was an interesting sprint to the top. From small beginnings to a $250,000 earnings, this is the story of Jannick Sinner, and why Sinner is SinneGOAT.

Watched him play at Miami recently, a very impressive clean ball Stryker, Sinner will be top 3 when he is 25 or sooner.

SinneGOAT · Apr 13, 2021

USO said:
Tomorrow every true tennis fan is counting on you Sinner!

Tomorrow I’m either gonna wake up the happiest fan on Earth or sad. It’s gonna be tough, good thing is I’ll wake up when the match is over.

Jason Swerve · Apr 13, 2021

You're right. Sinner "is Sinne" a GOAT at all.

SonnyT · Apr 14, 2021

UnderratedSlam said:
No mention of his being German?

He's much closer to being Austrian than German! The Tyrol Sinner's less German than the Swiss Federer!

dr325i · Apr 14, 2021

SinneGOAT said:
Tomorrow I’m either gonna wake up the happiest fan on Earth or sad. It’s gonna be tough, good thing is I’ll wake up when the match is over.

Why are you quiet today?
Did you really expect a different outcome?

dr325i · Apr 14, 2021

USO said:
Sinner has a good shot tomorrow! I feel it.

As usual, your feelings exposed you...

Third Serve · Apr 14, 2021

SinneGOAT · Apr 14, 2021

dr325i · Apr 14, 2021

SinneGOAT said:

It is OK, by the time Sinner is 27, the big 3 will be gone.
Plenty of time for him

BeatlesFan · Apr 14, 2021

Cortana said:
Srsly, this guy is the next big thing. Will win a slam in 2021.

The likelihood is he won’t get past the third round in any slam this year. He’s not getting anywhere close to winning one for years. Djokovic just destroyed him at MC, which shoes he’s nowhere near slam winning material. His fitness isn’t close to winning 7 matches in BO5.

SinneGOAT · Apr 14, 2021

BeatlesFan said:
The likelihood is he won’t get past the third round in any slam this year. He’s not getting anywhere close to winning one. Djokovic just destroyed him at MC, which shoes he’s nowhere near slam winning material.

Well duh Djokovic beat him, it’s not like he was beat in the 2nd round by some nobody outside the top 100. QF of French Open come to mind? He’s only 19, expect bigger things when he starts getting into his 20’s.

Omega_7000 · Apr 14, 2021

dr325i said:
It is OK, by the time Sinner is 27, the big 3 will be gone.
Plenty of time for him

Yeah but he really needs to dispatch them in big tournaments if he is aiming to be an all time great. Otherwise people will look at him as someone who got lucky to peak after the big three retired...

blablavla · Apr 14, 2021

dr325i said:
It is OK, by the time Sinner is 27, the big 3 will be gone.
Plenty of time for him

they won't
unless some youngsters start defeating them week in, week out

blablavla · Apr 14, 2021

BeatlesFan said:
The likelihood is he won’t get past the third round in any slam this year. He’s not getting anywhere close to winning one for years. Djokovic just destroyed him at MC, which shoes he’s nowhere near slam winning material. His fitness isn’t close to winning 7 matches in BO5.

what if he gets access to latest advances in medicine? and all of a sudden his results will go up?

USO · Apr 14, 2021

dr325i said:
As usual, your feelings exposed you...

Sinner won by default after Djokovic embarrassed himself with the cringeworthy boob throw into empty crowds.

Tennis_Hands · Apr 14, 2021

SinneGOAT said:

Don't worry, if he plays like this, Sinner has a realistic chance of beating Djokovic, if they meet at RG this year. Our boy played well today.

dr325i · Apr 14, 2021

Tennis_Hands said:
Don't worry, if he plays like this, Sinner has a realistic chance of beating Djokovic, if they meet at RG this year. Our boy played well today.

Exactly!
Because Djokovic played his best clay tennis today! What’s the chance he will repeat that in 2021??

Rovesciarete · Apr 14, 2021

A bit like after the defeat against Nadal and Shapo this setback gives me greater confidence in Sinner. It was a closer run thing then the score suggested and the most glaring weaknesses can be mended. His ATP ranking will improve making the draws increasingly easier.

I‘m actually pretty sure now that without any big injury Sinner will be Top 4 within 4 years and remains so for many many years. Slams are more difficult to project.

jussumman · Apr 14, 2021

He has potential to win some majors.

Aabye5 · Aug 9, 2021

Is this now the Official Sinner Thread?

Sinner News - in addition to grabbing his first 500 title (and the youngest to win one to boot), with his new ranking he also is primed to play in Turin, meaning there will be potentially 2 Italians at the YEC. Not bad for a young gun who isn't quite 20.

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/sinner-fedex-atp-rankings-9-august-2021

https://www.atptour.com/en/news/sinner-nitto-atp-finals-august-2021-update

SinneGOAT · Aug 9, 2021

I forgot this thread existed

TheNachoMan · May 6, 2022

Ah, 2020. Back when Sinner was hyped to the moon. He was a false prophet, we have the real deal now.

beltsman · May 6, 2022

TheNachoMan said:
Ah, 2020. Back when Sinner was hyped to the moon. He was a false prophet, we have the real deal now.

That's not quite true. He's living up to being the next Berdych perfectly

Lleytonstation · May 6, 2022

TheNachoMan said:
Ah, 2020. Back when Sinner was hyped to the moon. He was a false prophet, we have the real deal now.

From one propaganda to another.

Sinner is so 2020.

Airspun · Jul 14, 2023

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