It's scary to think that without 2020 cancellation, Djokovic is approaching Pete Sampras at Wimbledon now...
- Thread starter 6august
- Start date
Graf1stClass
Professional
He'd beat Pete in Wimbledon, so there's that.
all those guys played wimbledon almost double the times that pete played...eventually they were gonna catch up
Beckerserve
Legend
If if if...whataboutery.
P
PETEhammer
Guest
1- Nole is a grass great in his own right, congratulations. Only salty fans say otherwise
2- Pete played on fast grass which he is still the GOAT and BOAT of BY FAR. Modern grass is slow and bouncy, and that's what Fed and Nole won their Wimbers on. Apples and Oranges.
Pete's status isn't in any danger. He is still the best fast grasscourter in history which is much more prestigious than slow grass given that Becker, Borg, Laver, Edberg, Mac, Connors, Agassi, Rosewall, etc. all competed on it. When people think of Wimbledon history as tennis' hallowed ground where champions fought for the gold cup, it's the fast grass Pete DOMINATED they're thinking of.
Today's Wimbledon is the grass Federer fought Roddick for possession of. Rafa and Nole showing up and giving us epics in finals saved it from becoming an annual joke.
Feddy is the one who needs to watch his tail
2- Pete played on fast grass which he is still the GOAT and BOAT of BY FAR. Modern grass is slow and bouncy, and that's what Fed and Nole won their Wimbers on. Apples and Oranges.
Pete's status isn't in any danger. He is still the best fast grasscourter in history which is much more prestigious than slow grass given that Becker, Borg, Laver, Edberg, Mac, Connors, Agassi, Rosewall, etc. all competed on it. When people think of Wimbledon history as tennis' hallowed ground where champions fought for the gold cup, it's the fast grass Pete DOMINATED they're thinking of.
Today's Wimbledon is the grass Federer fought Roddick for possession of. Rafa and Nole showing up and giving us epics in finals saved it from becoming an annual joke.
Feddy is the one who needs to watch his tail
Last edited by a moderator:
Beckerserve
Legend
Wish becker had beat pete in 1995. Really felt after the 1st set it was on. Never understood why Boris did not just pepper petes BH on 1st serve especially to Ad court as Pete was vulnerable there. In the 80s it was Boris fav serve. Not sure why he in the 90s used the slice serve so much.
P
PETEhammer
Guest
Boris was another grass great obvs. and against just about anyone he would have won that '95 final. I think he didn't pepper the backhand because it would have become predictable and he wouldn't have been able to use it as a surprise tactic on big points. The other problem is if he serves to the backhand on the ad court he has to volley to the open court which is Pete's running forehand which nobody wants to go to lol
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
Well...
- 2020 happened and Wimbledon didn't so, whatever. That might be one of the few benefits of this current situation, for some.
- Winning on whatever this grass is isn't the same as whatever everyone played on for decades, previously.
- It helps when basically everyone under the age of 30 is mostly useless on grass
itrium84
Hall of Fame
I agree Pete is Wimbledon BOAT, as Novak is BOAT overall. Fed is still both, Wimbledon and overall GOAT.
Graf1stClass
Professional
Bollettieri had everyone one-dimensionalizing their game including doing slice serves as a default safety measure. The only exceptions I can think of are players who went into that partnership with diverse games already. You might've noticed how Kournikova went from having good, varied placement back to weak slice serves after her thumb injury gave her issues that her later coach (Slozil) could not fix. As well, Agassi was going down the same one-dimensional path until he dropped Bollettieri and joined with Gilbert. He then learned some tactics and started winning more than a chance Wimbledon -- but Kournikova stayed with the Bollettieri basics and never got a better coach after her injury. There is a similar reason Becker parted with the man, I would reckon.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Pete’s legacy as the fast grass Wimbledon GOAT and BOAT is secure.
on modern slow grass Fed is the GOAT... Djokovic is the BOAT since he leads Fed 3 - 0 in finals. Doesn’t get much more conclusive than that.
on modern slow grass Fed is the GOAT... Djokovic is the BOAT since he leads Fed 3 - 0 in finals. Doesn’t get much more conclusive than that.
beltsman
G.O.A.T.
You don't get it yet? This is inflation era. Numbers are meaningless. We are into a post-statistic era.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Its not a given that he'd have won there.
6august
Hall of Fame
Is this applied for all Big 3 or just Djokovic, sir?
P
PETEhammer
Guest
Can't say it any fairer than that.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
P
PETEhammer
Guest
But Federer whose competition consisted of baseliners of varying degrees of capability would beat Petros, no?What Sampras matches did you live through and watch? The answer is obvious:
beltsman
G.O.A.T.
All.
P
PETEhammer
Guest
I don't agree with this point of view, but it is a fair one in light of all the evidence. Don't forget about how lights-out terrifying Pete was on fast hard, and indoor carpet either. Definitely BOAT of one of those.
Last edited by a moderator:
itrium84
Hall of Fame
If we separate grass to fast and slow, obviously Pete is boat and goat on the fast one.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
That would be the ultimate match. The GOAT serve versus the GOAT return... And Pistol Pete would be victorious.
P
PETEhammer
Guest
That was in a recent conversation with Novak hosted by Henman. I don't know but I took Pete's comment to be pertaining to a neutral surface like hard/indoor hard since they were talking about WTF. But yeah, he did say that of the big 3, the ONLY one he scratches his head over how to play and beat is Novak for the reason you stated: the reach on the return. I think their matches prime for prime would be incredible.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
But Pete would still serve and volley against Djoker on 2000 Wimbly grass surface. Still attack and let the chips fall where they may... Particularly when playing at the baseline would simply not be an option against Djoker.
yea i do think he would have problems with him, djokovic is like a hewitt on steroids lol
Sunny014
Legend
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
It's not like Pete never dropped serve on grass. Novak's ROS would be an issue for him, even on 90s grass.
P
PETEhammer
Guest
I don't remember the stat but I think he was only broken a handful of times in all 7 Wimbledon finals. Full respect to Nole's return but on fast or modern grass I'll still back Pete.
There was a doc about Pete I watched recently where one of his trainers said he held NINETY TWO PERCENT OF THE TIME IN THE 90s. That is insane. Even Nole would have his hands full trying to return that serve and deal with the game behind it.
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
Very hard to answer the question no??
P
PETEhammer
Guest
He could play points selectively from the back, but that wasn't his style on grass where he went in on first and seconds.
I like Pete against anyone, including Nole, on grass be it fast or modern tbh.
P
PETEhammer
Guest
True...but Pete pre-99 injury is very different from Pete who struggled mightily v Hewitt in the 00s. Summer 99 Pete is terrifying to behold, let alone play and that's who I would pick to play Nole in a money match on grass or hardcourts for me.
P
PETEhammer
Guest
Of course, its hypothetical. I just think based off playing level Pete winning is fairly clear
Beckerserve
Legend
BOAT v GOAT...explain
Beckerserve
Legend
Also perhaps as Pete sliced the BH return alot and Boris was not great at punching his volleys like Edberg was hey maybe was wary of being a victim of the GOAT FH
P
PETEhammer
Guest
Best of all Time v Greatest of all Time
First one refers to having the highest playing level/being able to beat everyone. Greatest means most accomplished
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
What petehammer said. When I say BOAT I mean best/highest level. GOAT more relates to overall greatness and career accomplishments. Obviously subjective but think a few go by that.
Graf1stClass
Professional
I never "lived through" celebrities. I watched them on TV if they were on and usenetted them or caught them in the paper.What Sampras matches did you live through and watch? The answer is obvious:
Djoker would cream him.
Graf1stClass
Professional
Maybe Pete could edge something out, although I don't see it -- on this slow stuff now, he hasn't a chance. Djoker would at least have something to offer on the fast grass at his peak. He also had threatening a serve along with a far better return/groundie game. Pete has a much worse chance of breaking serve. Pete also declined much faster, it was a sight to see compared to now. How far Djokovic is stretching his age now is unbelievable.
Graf1stClass
Professional
Overall achievements and peak skill level.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Where are these free slams coming from?
ForehandRF
Legend
Fed fans are always acussed when it comes to hypotethicals, but other fanbases do it as well.
Beckerserve
Legend
BOAT then will be different per surface
P
PETEhammer
Guest
Modern medicine/training is a huge part of that though. They teach players how to play in a way that preserves the body, and have...methods of recovery that make it feasible to play again no harm done next round after a 5 set marathon match. Imagine how useful that kind of knowledge would be for a serve and volleyer? And the medicine? Especially for one with Thalassemia Minor?
Anyways, slow grass is the only place it would be a fair fight. You give Pete a Babolat with Poly, and he'll give Nole a great match at the very least. Remember, he's going to move extremely well on the surface since he's so suited to it, and that will be a huge part of the matchup as well.
P
PETEhammer
Guest
Yeah. Pete for Grass, Rafa for clay, Nole for anything they use Down Under lol, Pete for Indoor Carpet, Pete/Nole/Fedsicle for outdoor hard depeding on the venue and speed.
Beckerserve
Legend
Djokovic i would not say is BOAT on hard courts in North america in fact id argue Nadal is better. That argument is federer v sampras.
Indoor carpet is Becker.
P
PETEhammer
Guest
You think Boris's highest level indoors is higher than Pietros'? Even though Pietros won their most legendary match?
Interesting thought about Nadal. I tend to think Nole is much better on hardcourts in general if he's playing well. I don't think Nadal has ever shown the BOAT level of 2011/15 that Nole showed at the Open, although 2010 was a damn scary Nadal with a big serve. And yeah, Pete and Fed definitely are contenders for Hard BOAT. I think as with most things, Fed had a more consistently high level, whereas Pete's highest levels were higher and scarier ('95 Open for example)
Beckerserve
Legend
Nadal 2010 at USO was BOAT stuff.
1996 becker 2-1 sampras indoors when both were boating consistently so id say on carpet Becker at his best was unplayable.
Djokovic on US hardcourts never looks unbeatable. I have seen him live at USO and AO and honestly there is a massive difference in his level. He hits the ball so much cleaner in australia the sound off his racket is different.
I do think the height of bounce is a major factor. Hitting at waist height as opposed to cheat height really makes a difference.
Similar threads
- Poll
