2010 Wimbledon Berdych vs 2017 Wimbledon Fed

[SQA333]

Berdych was a problematic matchup for Federer until time, when Fed changed the racquet in 2014 (97 square-inch frame). After that, he lost no match with Berdych. I'm sure, that Federer 2017 would win a hypothetical match over Berdych 2010, probably in four sets.

It's interesting how much Fed struggled against Berdych from the period of 2010 - 2013 especially on outdoor HC. His second serve was continuously being eaten up and he'd try to overpower Berdych to no avail.

 

[metsman]

It's interesting how much Fed struggled against Berdych from the period of 2010 - 2013 especially on outdoor HC. His second serve was continuously being eaten up and he'd try to overpower Berdych to no avail.

2nd serve return was also a liability. What used to be a short slice that would give the bigger hitters fits turned into a mid court floater to be teed off on.

 

[Third Serve]

OP has a pretty clear agenda here. Of course, though, this can easily be countered by the fact that players don't ever decline (or improve, if you'd like to go that direction) in a completely straight line. Take the following examples:

2010 Wimby Fed: One of his worst Wimbledon tournaments; went five with Falla and got dumped out of the tournament rather too easily.
2011 Wimby Fed: Not a bad tournament from him, though far from his best. The Tsonga match was brutal. -Improved from 2010-
2012 Wimby Fed: Definitely a much better performance than the previous two, after a shaky match with Benneteau. Beat a good Djokovic and a very good Murray in the final rounds. -Improved from 2011-
2013 Wimby Fed: lol. -Declined from 2012-
2014 Wimby Fed: Much better than 2013, though that isn't saying too much. Still not at his best or even as good as in 2012 but he delivered some solid performances and even took Djoker to five. -Improved from 2013-
2015 Wimby Fed: I consider this version of Fed to be even better than in 2014, especially before the final. Other than that, ditto. -Improved from 2014-
2016 Wimby Fed: He struggled a lot here, but that was mostly because of the injury. -Declined from 2015
2017 Wimby Fed: Pretty clean tennis here; didn't drop a set. Probably not as good as 2012 but I'd say it's at least on par with 2015. -Improved from 2016-
2018 Wimby Fed: Nice enough in the early rounds, but his form took a massive turn for the worse in the Anderson match. -Declined from 2017-
2019 Wimby Fed: Despite some iffy opening matches, Fed played pretty well up until the final. Even in the final, he played pretty well except for the big points which really punished him in the end. -Improved from 2018-

This "decline" or "evolution" of Fed's performance at Wimbledon is in no way linear (although, overall, it definitely trends worse). His best showing was pretty clearly 2012 but there were some gaps between his good performances.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

It's not crap though. Just because there is nobody to push Djokodal currently, doesn't mean they aren't affected by age.

I think we are in complete agreement that neither the guy in my profile picture or any of the #NextGen guys are ATGs comparable to the Big 3.

However, the argument that the field is crap now is entirely unsubstantiated.
If you’d ask the TTW experts about Nole’s status as an ATG in 2010 you would have been mocked. In those days, he was basically looked at as a one slam wonder.
Nole 2019 was much better in his 30s than he was in 2009 when he didn’t even make a slam final.
Don’t tell me that 2009 Kohlschreiber was better than 2019 Thiem or that 2009 Haas was better than 2019 Fed at Wimbledon.

Age is NOT the obstacle it was a few decades ago when guys had no clue about sports science. There is way too much money involved in the game for the guys getting paid to keep their athletes in top shape and extend their shelf lives.

So are Tom Brady and Lebron also benefiting from a weak field?

Can you explain why the field would be weaker when there is more money/prestige in tennis than ever before?

 

[Nadalgaenger]

OP has a pretty clear agenda here. Of course, though, this can easily be countered by the fact that players don't ever decline (or improve, if you'd like to go that direction) in a completely straight line. Take the following examples:

2010 Wimby Fed: One of his worst Wimbledon tournaments; went five with Falla and got dumped out of the tournament rather too easily.
2011 Wimby Fed: Not a bad tournament from him, though far from his best. The Tsonga match was brutal. -Improved from 2010-
2012 Wimby Fed: Definitely a much better performance than the previous two, after a shaky match with Benneteau. Beat a good Djokovic and a very good Murray in the final rounds. -Improved from 2011-
2013 Wimby Fed: lol. -Declined from 2012-
2014 Wimby Fed: Much better than 2013, though that isn't saying too much. Still not at his best or even as good as in 2012 but he delivered some solid performances and even took Djoker to five. -Improved from 2013-
2015 Wimby Fed: I consider this version of Fed to be even better than in 2014, especially before the final. Other than that, ditto. -Improved from 2014-
2016 Wimby Fed: He struggled a lot here, but that was mostly because of the injury. -Declined from 2015
2017 Wimby Fed: Pretty clean tennis here; didn't drop a set. Probably not as good as 2012 but I'd say it's at least on par with 2015. -Improved from 2016-
2018 Wimby Fed: Nice enough in the early rounds, but his form took a massive turn for the worse in the Anderson match. -Declined from 2017-
2019 Wimby Fed: Despite some iffy opening matches, Fed played pretty well up until the final. Even in the final, he played pretty well except for the big points which really punished him in the end. -Improved from 2018-

This "decline" or "evolution" of Fed's performance at Wimbledon is in no way linear (although, overall, it definitely trends worse). His best showing was pretty clearly 2012 but there were some gaps between his good performances.

The standard argument is that Fed massively declined in a short span from 2006 to 2008 and that decline continued non stop until the present.
Is that correct in your eyes? Your decline chart is based on the premise that Fed’s age is the key reason for his decline, which is perfectly plausible, but I think you’d agree that Fed 2017 would win 2010 Wimbledon. Berdych had a high level but Nadal exposed him in the final.
So IF, 2017 Fed is better than 2010 Fed at Wimbledon, then why would the age-related decline from 2006 to 2008 be so significant?
If so, then how could a severely weakened Fed have had a 92% win percentage and have won Wimbledon 2017 without even dropping a set—something he’d never achieved?

 

[Nadalgaenger]

OP has a pretty clear agenda here. Of course, though, this can easily be countered by the fact that players don't ever decline (or improve, if you'd like to go that direction) in a completely straight line. Take the following examples:

2010 Wimby Fed: One of his worst Wimbledon tournaments; went five with Falla and got dumped out of the tournament rather too easily.
2011 Wimby Fed: Not a bad tournament from him, though far from his best. The Tsonga match was brutal. -Improved from 2010-
2012 Wimby Fed: Definitely a much better performance than the previous two, after a shaky match with Benneteau. Beat a good Djokovic and a very good Murray in the final rounds. -Improved from 2011-
2013 Wimby Fed: lol. -Declined from 2012-
2014 Wimby Fed: Much better than 2013, though that isn't saying too much. Still not at his best or even as good as in 2012 but he delivered some solid performances and even took Djoker to five. -Improved from 2013-
2015 Wimby Fed: I consider this version of Fed to be even better than in 2014, especially before the final. Other than that, ditto. -Improved from 2014-
2016 Wimby Fed: He struggled a lot here, but that was mostly because of the injury. -Declined from 2015
2017 Wimby Fed: Pretty clean tennis here; didn't drop a set. Probably not as good as 2012 but I'd say it's at least on par with 2015. -Improved from 2016-
2018 Wimby Fed: Nice enough in the early rounds, but his form took a massive turn for the worse in the Anderson match. -Declined from 2017-
2019 Wimby Fed: Despite some iffy opening matches, Fed played pretty well up until the final. Even in the final, he played pretty well except for the big points which really punished him in the end. -Improved from 2018-

This "decline" or "evolution" of Fed's performance at Wimbledon is in no way linear (although, overall, it definitely trends worse). His best showing was pretty clearly 2012 but there were some gaps between his good performances.

So based on this, do Berdych 2010 and Tsonga 2011 win the 2017-2019 Wimbledons over old or crap field?

 

[travlerajm]

The argument is often advanced that Federer has consistently declined year by year. Hence, his 2017 form would be inferior to his 2010 avatar (so goes the argument).

Berdych, for his part, was in great form at 2010 Wimbledon and ambushed the two greatest Wimbledon champs of our era with back to back wins before falling to Nadal in F.

2017 Wimbledon Federer had his easiest draw and although he play a good Berdych in SF, the 2010 form was more formidable.

So who wins this match and why?

no tie option?

 

[Gazelle]

One won the tournament in straights, other lost the final in straights...hmm who would win...difficult pick.