Lew II
G.O.A.T.
In the last decade 10-2 at Slams plus 2-0 in yec finals.
Federer was annihilated when it most mattered.
Of course. It's a fantasy match so Fed wins.
2010 Wimbledon Berdych vs 2017 Wimbledon Fed
- Thread starter Nadalgaenger
- Start date
Federer was annihilated when it most mattered.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
It's almost like 2 years is a very negligible amount of time...
There were times in 2009 he played better than 2007. Times in 2012 he played better than 2010. Times in 2017 he played better than 2015. Times in 2019 he played better than 2017.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
This is just all kinds of pathetic. Let's say injured Fed had lost to Sandgren at the AO. Not even the most biased Fed fan would be saying he would've beaten Novak in the semis. That's the equivalent to what you're saying about injured 2017 Novak beating in-form Federer.
Krish0608
G.O.A.T.
Agree with everything but the last line. 2017 Federer was way better than anything 2019 had to offer, IMO.
Breakpointerer
Legend
You think that 2017 Novak beats 2017 Federer?
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
Peak for Peak, yes. I'll take 2017 (say, IW 17 vs Miami 19). But 2019 Fed played a better US Open and overall fall season.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
It's like asking if Djokovic would beat 2013 Federer. What difference would it make? Djokovic was not even able to reach a Slam semi from 2017 AO to 2018 RG.
When both in good enough form to reach a Slam semi or a YEC final, Nole won 13 matches out of 18, this is all we know as a fact.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Do you remember how good Fed 2017 was at Shanghai?
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
That's why I said overall.
2017 Shg > 2019 Shg
2019 Basel > 2017 Basel
2019 YEC > 2017 YEC
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
You found an example that suits you but you should look at the full picture. Do I have to check how many sets had dropped in the tournament Federer before playing Djokovic in Slams?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
You clearly don't have enough knowledge to argue this, so you better stop before you embarrass yourself even further.
J
joohan
Guest
True. I was a bit nervous all the way until the converted match point. Tricky waters...
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Nah, I don't think 2018 Nadal beats Fed at Wimb. Just because returning Djokovic struggled doesn't mean Fed would too.Had Wimbledon been held this year I'd have expected a Djokodal final. He **** the bed after the 1st two sets vs Roger but 2018 Nadal would've took him out and I think 2020 Rafa would've too but we were robbed of ever knowing
I mean I remember the insane argument 2 years ago claiming Fed wouldn't have stood a chance against either of these 2. What an asinine thing to say.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
His agenda was as clear as daylight the moment he said in the 2008 AO thread that Fed wasn't facing Roddick anymore....
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Berdych had a great chance to win Wimb 3 years ago and I think he would have.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
It's not crap though. Just because there is nobody to push Djokodal currently, doesn't mean they aren't affected by age.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
In terms of mental strength, 2007 also deserves a mention. He pulled some Djoko-like mental strength that year (though not in the same heroic way obviously).
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Slam semifinals reached at Slams:
Djokovic 37/60 (61.7%)
Federer 46/79 (58.2%)
Slam finals:
Djokovic 26/60 (43.3%)
Federer 31/79 (39.2%)
Nole also skipped just 1 slam in his career.
This thing that bad form Federer always reaches the end of a tournament while bad form Djokovic often loses early is just a myth created by people who don't accept the H2H score.
Djokovic 37/60 (61.7%)
Federer 46/79 (58.2%)
Slam finals:
Djokovic 26/60 (43.3%)
Federer 31/79 (39.2%)
Nole also skipped just 1 slam in his career.
This thing that bad form Federer always reaches the end of a tournament while bad form Djokovic often loses early is just a myth created by people who don't accept the H2H score.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
The bolded is the part I disagree with.
zagor
Bionic Poster
If he had gotten past Fed obviously, he was the 2nd most in-form player that tourney (Cilic was getting into too many slugfests and paid the price physically). Last time Berdman played some good tennis was 2017 unfortunately, before injuries forced him to retire recently.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
I know. Since tennis and everyone is evolving - what other AO titles would Djokovic AO20 level win?
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
Clay
USO (though both ended due to injury)
Apart from that yeah, 2017 rog was miles better
Breakpointerer
Legend
Yeah sure, not disputing that. It's completely beside the point though.It's like asking if Djokovic would beat 2013 Federer. What difference would it make? Djokovic was not even able to reach a Slam semi from 2017 AO to 2018 RG.
When both in good enough form to reach a Slam semi or a YEC final, Nole won 13 matches out of 18, this is all we know as a fact.
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Lew II
G.O.A.T.
@MeatTornado
2007 AO - Federer 0, Djokovic 1
2007 UO - Federer 2, Djokovic 3
2008 AO - Federer 2, Djokovic 0
2008 UO - Federer 2, Djokovic 4
2009 UO - Federer 2, Djokovic 2
2010 UO - Federer 0, Djokovic 2
2011 AO - Federer 3, Djokovic 1
2011 RG - Federer 0, Djokovic 1
2011 UO - Federer 1, Djokovic 1
2012 RG - Federer 4, Djokovic 5
2012 WI - Federer 3, Djokovic 1
2014 WI - Federer 1, Djokovic 4
2015 WI - Federer 1, Djokovic 2
2015 UO - Federer 0, Djokovic 2
2016 AO - Federer 1, Djokovic 2
2019 WI - Federer 3, Djokovic 2
2020 AO - Federer 5, Djokovic 1
Total sets dropped: Federer 30, Djokovic 34
Bad form Federer dropped less sets than Djokovic in the tournament before their meeting
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
This right here is a perfect example of the frequent irrelevance of earlier round struggles.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
You're talking about general form and I'm talking about injuries. Only a fool wouldn't think Djokovic wasn't injured in 2017 or that Federer wasn't injured in 2020.@MeatTornado
2007 AO - Federer 0, Djokovic 1
2007 UO - Federer 2, Djokovic 3
2008 AO - Federer 2, Djokovic 0
2008 UO - Federer 2, Djokovic 4
2009 UO - Federer 2, Djokovic 2
2010 UO - Federer 0, Djokovic 2
2011 AO - Federer 3, Djokovic 1
2011 RG - Federer 0, Djokovic 1
2011 UO - Federer 1, Djokovic 1
2012 RG - Federer 4, Djokovic 5
2012 WI - Federer 3, Djokovic 1
2014 WI - Federer 1, Djokovic 4
2015 WI - Federer 1, Djokovic 2
2015 UO - Federer 0, Djokovic 2
2016 AO - Federer 1, Djokovic 2
2019 WI - Federer 3, Djokovic 2
2020 AO - Federer 5, Djokovic 1
Total sets dropped: Federer 30, Djokovic 34
Bad form Federer dropped less sets than Djokovic in the tournament before their meeting
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Only eye test matters
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Why Is 2014 Djokovic better than 2020 Djokovic?
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Why is he worse? Clearly 2014 AO Wawrinka displayed a significantly better level of tennis than anyone Djokovic has played in 2020.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
2020 Djokovic hasn't even played much. But I would say he was a bit better in 2014 AO than in 2020. Just had the misfortune of running into Stan in the QF instead of later.
And yes, Thiem <<< Wawrinka.
And just for the sake of it, since there will be no Wimb this year, 2014 Wimb Djokovic > 2019 Wimb Djokovic.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
I didn't say he was worse. I think they are pretty similar.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Fine. What about 2019 Djokovic VS 2014?
2014 Djokovic was still going through his mental midget phase. He should have won, he was a break up in the fifth.
The Guru
Legend
I didn't say that? I just said I'd favor 2018 Nadal over 2019 Federer. Federer has a matchup advantage with Djoker and lost to a much worse version in a close that was similarly close (Fed was closer but it's kinda negligible). Nadal has a matchup disadvantage and pushed a much better Djoker to 10-8 in the fifth. 2019 W was just a poop show overall. I don't view the 18 SF at all the same way as 19 F. The 19 F was aggressively average the 18 SF was outstanding.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
I concur, but strongly doubt 2020 Djokovic would have been able to match 2014 Djokovic in consistency had the season proceeded normally. Djole was pretty great throughout most of 2014 other than somehow giving away the entire NA HC season (didn't he and Lena get married around the time? that'd explain some distraction). RG loss to Nad, W win over Fred, 4 masters wins + 2 SF losses to Fred, YEC dominant win.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I never said you did. That was an argument from 2 years ago after 2018 Wimb.
Federer doesn't have and never had any match-up advantage with Djoker. It's actually been quite the opposite: Fed enjoys the match-up with Nadal and doesn't handle the match-up with Djoker.
The dynamic of the Fedal rivalry has changed since 2017. Nadal no longer enjoys a match-up advantage with Fed, that's why I don't think his 2018 version beats Fed at Wimb. Fed actually prefers aggressive and slower Nadal over his younger version.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
He just played one of his worst Wimb in 2010. That's it.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
2014 Djokovic was more consistent across an entire season than 2019 Djokovic.
At the AO, tough to say. 2019 Djokovic GOATed, but 2014 AO Stan >> 2019 AO Nadal. 2014 Djokovic would have had no issues with that Nadal too.
2014 Wimb Djokovic > 2019 Wimb Djokovic. He beat a younger Fed without resorting to 3 tiebreaks.
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metsman
G.O.A.T.
2014 clearly better at the latter 3 majors and YEC and outside majors. For AO, 2014 Djoker would have taken 2019 Nadal and the rest of the jokers in that draw to the cleaners anyways. I don't think Djokovic post 16 is as good as the previous prime versions, he lost some movement and intensity to his ground game. That's how Fed was able to hang along for so long at Wimby whereas in 14-15 it felt like he was totally suffocated off the baseline.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
2020 Djokovic would have done better in the slams that's for sure. Since his comeback in 2018, Djokovic has dominated the slams like 2014 couldn't. It's a shame covid happened because I believe I have seen a Djokovic this year that has looked like he wants to win everything instead of just the slams, as was the case in 2018 and 2019.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
His last two slam wins were ugly five-setters against choking mugs, senilerer included. Djokovic wouldn't have gotten away with such muggery in 2014.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Was Djokovic better at the FO in 2014? People forget how good Djokovic was Last year up until the final. In 2014, he had an easier draw and struggled in a couple in of matches anyway.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Who would have stopped him? 2014 Federer is not beating 2019 Djokovic at Wimbledon. Maybe 2014 Dimitrov could, he was in good form in the semifinal. But Djokovic would still be the favorite.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic AO 2020 would have killed anyone at the AO 14 besides Wawrinka. People have short memories and seem to forget how bad Djokovic was in sets 2 and 3 against Wawrinka in 2014. It was actually a very similar match to the Thiem one this year. Put a more mentally strong Djokovic in that match against Wawrinka in 2014 and he doesn't give up a break in the fifth by missing like 3 routine FHs, and haven't even mentioned the muggery in the last game of the match.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Put a clutch Wawrinka instead of a choking Thiem in the fifth set and see what happens.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
2014 Wimby Djokovic is better than Last year's Djokovic. But I'm not so sure about Federer as he was mostly just servebotting in that match and was lucky that Djokovic choked otherwise it wouldn't have gone to five sets. 2019 Djokovic could beat 2014 Federer at Wimby IMO
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic 2014 was alright I'd say. Rare AO loss aside, there isn't much I would loudly complain about. 2013 on the other hand...
Certainly looked like he was going to have a better year than 2018 and 2019. Weeks at #1 and Tokyo were perfect motivation for him to step up in BO3. He's definitely been affected the most by this. Zverev saying the opposite just confirms it LOL.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
How exactly did Thiem choke? What Djokovic did in 2014 was way more of a choke.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic 2019 is a slightly less consistent 2014 Djokovic IMO. While 2013 Djokovic should be forbidden by law to talk about IMO.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
How is it trolling to ask why
Fed struggled mightily against Andreev at 2008 USO and against Benneteau at 2012 Wimbledon.
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