Active players more talented than Federer
- Thread starter Federer20042006
- Start date
tennis_badger
Rookie
Definitely yes by far, but in baseline domain.
tennis_badger
Rookie
G
Golden
Guest
The spirit of Clarky lingers...
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
Make another thread, OP.
It's been hours.
It's been hours.
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Deleted member 307496
Guest
Bender
G.O.A.T.
He's definitely very talented. He is simply unfortunate to be on the short side, by tennis player standards.
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Deleted member 307496
Guest
Disagree.. he has no variety or B game..
Candide
Hall of Fame
Excellent thread. I think it's been proved conclusively on these boards that Federer is a moderately talented professional with preternatural luck who may have sold his soul to the devil in order to achieve so much success with so little.
I'm quite certain that any 5.5 level player here on TT (I think that's about 80% of posters - but not me) would probably more naturally gifted than this fortunate, Faustian git.
I'm quite certain that any 5.5 level player here on TT (I think that's about 80% of posters - but not me) would probably more naturally gifted than this fortunate, Faustian git.
Federer20042006
Banned
I'm talking about when they discuss Federer on TV...not some PR stuff when they're being diplomatic.
McEnroe's real opinion becomes clear when he says that Nadal has a better backhand AND volleys than Federer.
McEnroe's real opinion becomes clear when he says that Nadal has a better backhand AND volleys than Federer.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
What's the point of being a blatant troll? Boredom?
Yeah. I mean, obviously all greats have to have a lot of talent and they work hard.
Also, I don't like that only some things are considered talent here.
I think talent comes in many shapes. Nadal is very talented to me, in a lot of aspects of the game even more than Federer. Running fast and being a great fitness specimen is talent. Having great defense is talent. Mental toughness and discipline is also talent. What about him being able to play with a left hand? That is talent too.
After all, you are as talented as your weakest link. You can have the best car in the world, but if you have one bad tire, it won't help you.
Federer doesn't have mental toughness talent or fitness talent relative to Nadal. So, his overall talent is as good as his weakest link.
Tony Nadal said once, that results are good indication of overall talent. Maybe he is on to something and we need to revisit what talent means.
I admire your anti-trolling skills. You need more talent and skills to be great anti-troll than to be a troll.
So, nice work mister President.
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
He's a poor man's Karlovic, really.
thomasferrett
Hall of Fame
The list is incomplete;
Karlovic: better backhand, better movement
Volandri: better serve, better forehand
Almagro: better mental strength, clutchness and intangibles
Karlovic: better backhand, better movement
Volandri: better serve, better forehand
Almagro: better mental strength, clutchness and intangibles
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
Teacher, please teach this young helpless soul how trolling should be done
Trolling? Au contraire mon ami, I believe I was gently offering our troll some much-needed guidance.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Corrected.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
PrinceMoron
Legend
Fixed it for you.
I will explain exactly what is wrong with the above:
1. none of the players above does anything better at the net than Federer. Volleys, 1/2 volleys, overheads, touch, approach shots, ... of these players, Federer is the best at the net and by a wide margin over most of these players.
2. Day in and day out, Federer serves as well or better than everyone on the list. Prime Federer over the course of a season serves better than these guys. Yes, if Tsonga or Cilic are zoning, they can have the odd day when they out serve Federer. But, day in and day out, these guys are much less consistent and have far more off days. That's why they don't win majors or as many majors.
3. Federer's FH is among the best on this list.
4. Federer probably only has 1 rival in mental toughness and that's Nadal. People tend to give Nadal the advantage in mental toughness against Federer due to the head to head but the head to head swing is not due to mental toughness. It is due to these factors: 1. Federer got to Nadal a lot on clay where he lost while Nadal didn't get to Federer as much on grass or fast courts early in Federer's career, 2. Nadal is left handed allowing him to "relatively" exploit Federer's 1 HBH. Federer has won 17 majors and his career is much more consistent than anyone on the list above, and you don't do that without mental toughness.
5. In his prime, Federer was perhaps the greatest moving of all time on grass and fast hard court. As Laver said, he appear to float over the court. And, this includes Monfils and Nadal who may be faster but not as efficient in movement as they frequently end up 15 feet behind the baseline.
To me, talent implies a gift or genetic aptitude to play great tennis. Many of the players above such as Djoko, Nadal, Murray and others are very "workman like" in their play. Yes, they have gifts that allow them to be world class and major winners but it looks like work and grind. Federer is the best shot maker of all these guys and his style looks more "talented" than all of these guys.
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
We don't have accurate scale measuring talent one possess so it has been and always will be subjective debates.
I don't put Federer in his own top tier of talent as majority does getting influenced by his achievements. IMO, he's top tier talent I've seen and the players I could place in his tier with comparable talent are: Marat Safin, David Nalbandian, Grigor Dimitrov and Pete Sampras..
I don't put Federer in his own top tier of talent as majority does getting influenced by his achievements. IMO, he's top tier talent I've seen and the players I could place in his tier with comparable talent are: Marat Safin, David Nalbandian, Grigor Dimitrov and Pete Sampras..
Federer20042006
Banned
2. Federer's serve is about smarts and placement, though, and his placement is better largely because he doesn't hit so hard. I don't consider those talents - I consider those the product of hard work and being intelligent. Federer doesn't have a live arm the way Andy Roddick or Goran Ivanisevic did. He's a crafty server.
3. Federer's forehand itself was never the greatest shot - it was the fact that he created angles so well with his movement/footwork. With the decline in movement came the decline in forehand. Andre Agassi was still killing forehands when his back was shot. That's because his forehand itself was monstrous. Guys like Berdych and Del Potro don't move nearly as well as Federer did, but they can blast forehands because they have tremendous power with the stroke itself.
4. I agree Federer is mentally tough. I consider that separate from talent.
5. Federer never moved as well as Nadal/Djokovic, really. All that floating never beat those two. He needed to serve brilliantly to beat them, because he won't get the better of them from the back.
smoledman
G.O.A.T.
I guess you never saw tennis from 2004-2007.
LazyNinja19
Banned
Most definitely. I'd also rate him behind:
John Isner: the distance between his actual height and how low he can crouch to hit some balls.
Fernando Verdasco: the ability to hit left handed
Bernard Tomic: the way he can party
Jack Sock: the way he can make people ignore him
Yen-Hsun Lu: Asian looks, Federer can never do that
Tommy Hass: he is way better talented in getting injured
Talent = Luck. It's luck being born with right genes. So, why does our culture admire talent so much, since it's luck. Nobody did anything to deserve their talent, so I don't know why people give them credit.
jiddy-p
Semi-Pro
You've got to be kidding right? What about Delpo? He's at least a few, if not a whole bunch, of centimeters more talented than Federer at body height.
Other players with significantly more talent than Federer:
E. Bouchard: She's just leagues more talented than Fed at being a girl. She's also way hotter than Fed! Is he even trying?
Hewitt: This guy is probably the GOAT at being blonde. Just way more talented than Federer, they're not even in the same ballpark. This is Feds best blonde lol. Is he even trying?
Andy Murray: Competitive eating. Federer is just not so talented when it comes to competitive eating. Murray on the other hand can eat more bagels in a single season than all the top 10 combined.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't think so. He is so good cause he worked for it, but of caurse had the talent. But talent hasn't only made him what he is now.
But he worked hard because he had the talent to work hard. Some people don't have talent for such intrinsic motivation.
When you are talented at something you see that you are good at it and that motivates you.
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The OP is a well known troll, that's obvious. So, don't take what he says too seriously. We are just having fun here.
2. Federer serve is extremely fluid and his 2nd serve kick is tremendous. He outserved Roddick at Wimbledon including number of aces. His average MPH was around 117-118 during in long Wimbledon run which is plenty quick when you consider he was getting near 65% in.
3. In his prime, Federer FH was explosive. I believe the term "liquid whip" was used to describe the FH. Yes, Del Po hits faster but in totality Federer FH is better than Del Po's.
5. You need to rethink "All that floating never beat those two". Federer beat Nadal the first 2 times they played at Wimbledon pretty handily. And as late as 2012 old man Federer beat Djokovic handily at Wimbledon. And, Federer has beaten Djokovic at USO several times. Certainly, Federer's movement on grass was greater than both of these guys by a considerable margin. Of all current players, Federer is the best mover on grass and in his prime was better on fast hardcourts like USO than Djoko and Nadal. Federer moves in an attacks the short ball better than Nadal or Djokovic as that is the money play on grass and hard courts. Nadal's sole win on grass was the 2008 mono year for Federer and Nadal just barely won that by the thinnest of margins.
Federer20042006
Banned
I guess you never saw tennis from 2001.
The difference between the likes of 01 Federer and 04-07 Federer was, as someone from his team put it, "legs." Federer worked his butt off to develop the legs and the footwork that allowed him to take a rather tame forehand and turn it into a shot he hit numerous winners with.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Variety for the sake of variety is overrated, and is a poor indicator of talent. In fact I am tempted to say that it isn't an indicator of talent at all. There is a correlation, but that's as far as it goes. Plenty of people who can hit all the shots in the book immaculately, and yet choose not to use them it matches because of reasons other than tactical ones, such as personal preferences.
That is, unless that is caused by the inability to hit certain shots, like Djokovic and overheads.
Ferrer has no B game partly because he doesn't have the firepower that others in the top ten have. He's pretty much forced to grind because he usually can't outhit anyone from any part of the court. If he were a foot taller, he'd be a Spanish Djokovic with better overheads.
I also think people here equate good-looking strokes with talent. I think that's a poor way to judge talent. Ferrer has workman-like strokes, so people equate him with hard work. I think that's a poor or even an unfair assessment.
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smoledman
G.O.A.T.
Ferrer IS the hardest worker on tour because he has to overcome his height problem and inability to just blast winners all over the court. How is that a bad thing? He does the MOST with the LEAST.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
The guy is plenty talented but lacks a bit of power. That is partly because of height (although he's got a great serve despite that disadvantage).
Ferrer grinds because of only one major limitation, which is his height. He's not particularly deficient in any area, although he's got quite a few weapons. Very clean hitter, hits very early, rock solid on both sides, and despite his height still has quite a bit of firepower. No doubt he's a hard worker, but I think you've missed my point entirely.
On a side note, I wonder if labels are attributed to players because of who they are. Ferrer's serve is actually pretty decent in my opinion, but most here would attribute that to hard work. Federer's serve is stellar compared to his size but most here would attribute that to talent. Hewitt in his peak had a deceivingly great serve but we'd be divided as to whether it was down to talent or hard work. If we didn't know these players at all or were asked to evaluate without being able to see the player or the stroke itself, would we label them differently? I think we just might.
harryz
Professional
In their primes
Pancho Gonzales beats both of them. He played professionally for over 15 years of his career as there was no Open tennis, and another several into his 40s after 1970. Was arguably the best player in the world overall for 10+ of them. Had he not joined Kramer's tour and stayed an amateur, the slam count competition nonsense would be quite different.
Pancho Gonzales beats both of them. He played professionally for over 15 years of his career as there was no Open tennis, and another several into his 40s after 1970. Was arguably the best player in the world overall for 10+ of them. Had he not joined Kramer's tour and stayed an amateur, the slam count competition nonsense would be quite different.
Engelworks
Rookie
Good start but the list is incomplete. I would add Ferrer: better forehand put-away, better backhand variety, better height.
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Deleted member 688153
Guest
smoledman
G.O.A.T.
Takes one to know one, no?
:lol:
I am not a troll. I'm a sincere tennis patriot who only has the good of this forum in mind at all times!
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