Jackuar
Hall of Fame
Out of topic. How do one post gifs? I couldn't seem to get it working...
Andy Murray is much better than Courier and Gustavo Kuerten he is tied with Agassi
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Out of topic. How do one post gifs? I couldn't seem to get it working...
Terenigma
G.O.A.T.
Upload the gif you wanna use somewhere to host it (i usually use imgur) then click the picture icon next to the smiley icon and post the link to the gif you wanna use in there. Try to keep the gif as small and to the point as possible. Don't post huge long gifs or a massive list of gifs because it lags the site and will make the moderators hate you.
I'd say Murray's weak serve leaves him not at his best at the end of Slam in many cases. Much easier for a big player like Roddick of even Safin to deliver. Again its not all about Federer.Courier played in a weakish window on tour. It just really comes down to Murray's weak serve for most of his career.
Over the span of time from the 1991 French Open-1993 Australian Open, when Courier won his 4 Majors, the 5 best players were likely Courier, Edberg, Sampras, Lendl, and Becker. The rest of the top 10 likely included Agassi, Ivanisevic, Stich, Chang, and Korda. It was an incredibly strong era.
nah
NatF
Bionic Poster
You're living in the past. The level of play is constantly improving, Murray is the best player ever moving just ahead of Djokovic.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
Not at all. Murray is a rhythm player in an era of homogeneous style of tennis that suits his game. With faster courts, less rhythm, Murray will be out of sorts. It is no coincidence Agassi had a highly unexpected successful spell in his later years - because the game was slower, more BL players, and he had more time and space.
Even an ageing Federer beats Murray comfortably - because he mixes up his game and gives him no rhythm. All these points say A LOT.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Murray's best surface is grass and Federer has never played peak Murray - lucky for him.
That's because peak Murray was never allowed to engender itself when under the clutches of Federer's game.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Well as you know we studied this with ELO and on clay it wasn't all that strong. US Open field in 1993 and 1994 was weak. We've not formally looked at the Australian Open, but with no Sampras or Agassi in 1992 and no Agassi in 1993 and the likes of Christian Bergstrom and Brett Steven in the QFs I doubt it rates well against the Australian Open of Murray's time. Chang, Agassi, Goran did not make QFs in 1993 or 1992 (no Korda 1992) and courier decimated Korda in their 1993 QF. In 1992, Courier played Mansdorf, got a walkover Krajicek, and then beat Edberg in final. Becker, Stich, and Lendl not really factors. I'd rate Murray much, much higher than Courier.
Of course, Murray with 6 Majors would be ahead of Courier. But, as things currently stand, Courier is ahead of Murray.
In 1991, Courier won the French Open by beating Rostagno (career-high #13 in November 1991), Ferreira (got as high as #6; Australian Open SF in 1992), Larsson (career-high #10, clay titles in '90 and '92), Martin (career-high #4), Edberg (#1, French Open finalist in 1989, Hamburg winner in 1992), Stich (would go on to win Wimbledon and Stuttgart Outdoor and finish the year at #4), and Agassi (#4, French Open finalist in 1990, titlist in 1999).
In 1992, Courier won the French Open by beating Kroon, Muster (won Monte Carlo in 1992, 1995 French Open winner), Mancini (career-high #8, Rome titlist in 1989, finalist in 1991), Medvedev (career-high #4, 1999 French Open finalist, won Genoa, Stuttgart, and Bordeaux in 1992), Ivanisevic (career-high #2, lost Rome final in 1993 to Courier), Agassi (French Open finalist in 1990 and 1991, titlist in 1999), and Korda (#7, Munich finalist in 1992).
Those are pretty solid draws.
Agassi played at the French Open 10 times between 1988 and 1999. In those 10 appearances, he won a title, made 2 other finals, 2 other semifinals, and 1 other quarterfinal. Those are solid results in 6/10 years. The other 4 years, his results were: 1989: 3rd round loss to Courier in 4 sets (good loss); 1994: 2nd round loss to Muster in 5 sets (good loss), 1996: 2nd round loss to Woodruff in 5 sets (bad loss), 1998: 1st round loss to Safin in 5 sets (good loss). Then, after a 2nd round loss to his old nemesis Kucera in the 2nd round in 2000, Agassi reeled off 3 straight QFs at the French from 2001-2003.
Meles
Bionic Poster
The field was weak based on the players who made QFs. Muster in 1992 wasn't seeded, but won Monte Carlo so Courier had a very tough 2nd round opponent I'd presume. Edberg for 1991 was no chump on clay either. With a young Agassi as his big rival I'm not really impressed with Courier's path to victory.
Luka888
Professional
lol, true dat. Could someone remind me when was the last time Murray def. Nole, Fed or Rafa at some big 'events' ... my memory is bad. #1 my ars.With Federer out for the year, Nadal having uncertainties and Djokovic losing in the 3rd round of a slam, is this the start of Murray's dominance?
Is this the beginning of the Murray era?
What Murray era? It doesn't exist and it never will. He might be able to keep that #1 for a week or so.
Gosh, I miss Fed and Rafa ... Nole should be fine if he smartens up a bit.
Brits going crazy on this board, funny stuff but whatever. This is a super trolling thread.
Bukmeikara
Legend
Nadal wont stand a chance against inform Murray offclay and he still lost their last match.
Federer is great and all but you can't expect that getting older he would still dominate Andy - I mean if he defeated Raonic this year I expected a very sound defeat for him against Andy - in a baseline era, being 35-36 Roger is close to doomed against the inform scott.
Nole may recapture the number 1 but it's obvious that he lost the mental edge he had over Andy and you can likely expect that their matches would be 50-50 as before 2014 and not 85-15 like post 2013. Murray made 8 finals in the last 9 tournaments he played and not once Novak was there to meet him. That is not a small sample! Another one is the fact that Andy had two 20+ strikes of wins which is done only by Federer, Djokovic and Nadal in the past. Djokovic may still be the same player but his motivation certanly isn't once he understands how far is Roger infront of him - he would probably win his occasional Slam but the "hunger" would hardly ever come back being 30 and all. On the other hand Andy is in a new position for him, eager to make his name count even more and he should be able to sustain his top level for a year or two before fading away.
Personaly in the next years besides the obvious choice of Djokovic to regain his ranking I believe only Nishikori stands an actual real chance to be number 1 in that period.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
If Murray lets his # 1 ranking slip at the WTF, there will be one more similarity with Kuerten, actually.
1991: QF: Edberg, SF: Stich, F: Agassi
1992: QF: Ivanisevic, SF: Agassi, F: Korda
Three of these six matches were against all time greats, with Agassi winning the 1999 French and making 2 other finals, and Edberg making the 1989 final. The other three matches were against Major champions who all reached #2 in the world, with Stich later making a French Open final.
Sartorius
Hall of Fame
You don't necessarily need to upload a pic (@Terenigma). Find the gif on web, right click on it and copy the address link, paste the link via the image button in the reply box.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
I disagree. In my view, Agassi's late success was due to an attitude/competitiveness adjustment thanks to his ATG wife. Further, in my view, Agassi had the most effective fast court ground game of all time due to his impeccable eye/hand coordination and compact windup on both sides. I can't think of another player, of any era, whose game was less affected by court speed than Agassi's, except for perhaps Laver and Rosewall.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Aha! I've long suspected that NatF's true identity is . . . Ian Anderson.
nadalfan2013
Professional
Goldray is also greater than Bronzokovic.
We'll have to agree to disagree, but for me it was extremely telling.
Agassi had an effective fast court game. An excellent fast court game. But it was becoming less effective with age....And then the courts got slower...
NatF
Bionic Poster
He had the best groundstrokes but I don't think his movement (which is a bit underrated) is quite good enough for him to have the most effective fast court ground game of all time. I'd probably go for Federer in that regard, Connors would be close to the top as well.
If you're talking about the best fast court game of all time, that person will have to be vying for Sampras' helm.
NatF
Bionic Poster
I'm talking just ground game.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
That's a good point.
SinjinCooper
Hall of Fame
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Fed at his best had the best fast court ground game hands imo. At his best his BH is a strength not a weakness and he's pretty much impenetrable because his movement/FH are so great. See the first set of the 03 TMC final or the 05 USO final where Agassi was playing well and still got blitzed.
Agassi I think had the most consistently great groundstrokes of all time, definitely more consistent than Fed's throughout the years but Fed firing on all cylinders is right there too, maybe above because of how dominant his FH can be that his BH doesn't really matter, and his movement is much more dynamic even compared to peak Agassi.
And Borg should be in this discussion as well. I would take his fast court ground game over Connors and Agassi although he had a better first serve than either and he was more steady than federer. It could be him actually.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
He played some baseline tennis and played it really well in both 01 and 03. The court itself maybe wasn't as fast as it was in the 80's but the racquets made the game faster.
But I do agree the answer might be Borg. I would still lean Federer but that opinion is biased as we never got to see Borg played with modern equipment and he was doing crazy things with the pieces of crap they played with back then. Borg is definitely my pick for best baseliner across all surfaces.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
By "impossible" I assume you mean except for Agassi who won Wimbledon as a total baseliner the year before Courier got to the final and who had a serve nowhere as good as Courier's?
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Murray is the best male Olympic tennis player in history.
Let's see if Nadal can live up to "MuryGoat" next year.
Tennfan123
Legend
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