Are flexible frames finally making a comeback?

[goosala]

The past 30 years of frame design have seemed to be about making the frame stiffer and more powerful. A few makes have made flexible frames such as Yonex and Pro Kennex but the vast majority have been about stiffness and power. Prince has re entered the flexible and feel realm with their Textreme line of frames which I really like. Wilson has their Clash line. I hope that this trend continues for us older players who still hit the crap out of the ball and want a soft frame with feel and is fully weighted above 12 ounces.

 

[Arzivu]

Hopefully the trend towards these flexible frames will grow even more.I am very satisfied from the prince phantom line.Such comfortable and arm friendly rackets.Wilson is taking a step in this direction with clash also.Let's see if babolat will make a similar move although i doubt it..

 

[A_Instead]

It appears that wilson and prince are going in that direction...but it looks like Wilson found a solution to offer flex and pop/power...a trait that is difficult to achieve in most cases..

 

[Dartagnan64]

The big problem is people have become addicted to their polyester strings for spin. These strings are so low powered that it drove manufacturers to power up their frames with stiffness for energy transfer and lightness for RHS. That was a recipe for arm disaster amongst the masses.

The secret is to make the frame flexible enough to tolerate Poly strings but powerful enough to overcome polyesters intrinsic lack of power.

My solution has been to gravitate to Prince Frames and use Gut/poly hybrids at low tensions. But Wilson may have solved the conundrum with a flexible racket that is meant for low power poly strings. Time will tell if they've done it. Reviews are all over the place right now.

But getting power, spin, control and comfort together in one package is the dream of all players and racket makers. Right now everything is a compromise and you choose based on priorities.

 

[teachingprotx]

I sure hope all the manufactures give us way more flexible offerings from this point forward .. don’t take anything away that’s working for them but add a “ soft line “ would be cool acrosss the board
Like this wilson ps 97 soft
Bab pure drive soft
Head mid prestige soft
So on and etc..think there’s better words to identify flexy frame version like just give the RA AS THE NAME *
Example
Aero drive 44
Or head instinct 55
Whatever they want to call it I’m good with it just please give us more flex y’all !

 

[vsbabolat]

HEAD could sell a flexible frame in the PT57A tomorrow but they won’t

 

[teachingprotx]

What is the lowest Ra reported for the pt 57 A = RA

 

[teachingprotx]

If you say it’s 57 I’m gonna die of embarrassment

 

[vsbabolat]

What is the lowest Ra reported for the pt 57 A = RA

I have a batch that reads 51RA strung on a Babolat RDC machine. On court they feel identical to my 56RA strung frames

 

[jmacdaununder2]

Would like to know the real tech behind the Clash; could just be old school added fibreglass percentage with more sophisticated placement for all I know. I really doubt they spent extra to obtain softer graphite prepregs for mass retail though.

 

[vsbabolat]

Would like to know the real tech behind the Clash; could just be old school added fibreglass percentage with more sophisticated placement for all I know. I really doubt they spent extra to obtain softer graphite prepregs for mass retail though.

It also depends on the orintaion of the carbon fibers in the layup.

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

Well, for every low flex frame that is introduced, there appear to be 7-8 existing frames that are being stiffened up[emoji21]. So I have to answer your question in the negative, sadly.

Don't even mention Prince to me, as the latest tours are stiffer and very string sensitive now.

 

[Tao69]

Could be the market is moving, the introduction of light stiff rackets with free power opened up the game to a lot of people not able to swing the more traditional heavy frames. It’s quite possible that the injuries that occur as a result of these frames is proving counter productive and they’re adjusting their products to suit.

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

Could be the market is moving, the introduction of light stiff rackets with free power opened up the game to a lot of people not able to swing the more traditional heavy frames. It’s quite possible that the injuries that occur as a result of these frames is proving counter productive and they’re adjusting their products to suit.

So what you are suggesting is that there is a "triage" lineup of rackets? That may prove correct.

Upon further thought, I think that is what is really happening: a general drift to stiffer frames but with this submarket for ultra flexible frames.

 

[Tao69]

Well commercially it makes sense to meet the market demand, quite possibly the majors are seeing the niche market for flexible frames grow and want to capture market share. So the more boutique brands will have to step up their game as competition increases.

 

[teachingprotx]

I have a batch that reads 51RA strung on a Babolat RDC machine. On court they feel identical to my 56RA strung frames

Oh yes I have the same things going on with some of my fave head frames too . Some can be as much as 3-5 pts stiffer but seemingly feel the same to me ..
so go figure

 

[teachingprotx]

Well commercially it makes sense to meet the market demand, quite possibly the majors are seeing the niche market for flexible frames grow and want to capture market share. So the more boutique brands will have to step up their game as competition increases.

Oh I do hope you are correct

 

[ron schaap]

If i need wet noodles i go to an asian supermarket

 

[fuzz nation]

The big problem is people have become addicted to their polyester strings for spin. These strings are so low powered that it drove manufacturers to power up their frames with stiffness for energy transfer and lightness for RHS. That was a recipe for arm disaster amongst the masses.

The secret is to make the frame flexible enough to tolerate Poly strings but powerful enough to overcome polyesters intrinsic lack of power.

My solution has been to gravitate to Prince Frames and use Gut/poly hybrids at low tensions. But Wilson may have solved the conundrum with a flexible racket that is meant for low power poly strings. Time will tell if they've done it. Reviews are all over the place right now.

But getting power, spin, control and comfort together in one package is the dream of all players and racket makers. Right now everything is a compromise and you choose based on priorities.

I know what you mean, but I always had the impression that it was sort of the other way around. Light and stiff racquets were being churned out more and more, but once the word got out about poly strings allowing players to "buy more control", that's when the popularity of those strings really exploded. No biggie - I think that the two trends have gone hand in hand in a sort of co-dependence.

I stuck with my favorite syn. guts when the whole poly thing was taking off. A pal of mine who was in the string business back then quickly warned me off of the polys when I asked about them. He had already been through that full blown case of tennis elbow that we all fear when he tried the string in his own racquets. He gave me a good deal of insight on the general properties of the polys including his cautions so that I'd be careful with them in the future as I got into stringing more racquets myself.

I think I read about poly strings being introduced a long time ago (maybe the late 80's or early 90's?), but they didn't take off immediately because not many players could take advantage of them yet. They seemed to take off as the gear got lighter and stiffer as well as swing technique moving in a more modernized direction.

Yaddah-yaddah... I'd bet that softer racquets could find a solid place in the market. The caveman clubs of yesteryear may be pretty much gone, but it's still the case that frames with decent heft can readily produce powerful shots. Extra flex in a racquet gives me more control, so a combo of moderate flex and "enough" heft to be stable through the ball seems to have no downside. Especially considering that I don't need to string with poly looking for more control - so that checks the arm-friendly box, too.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I know what you mean, but I always had the impression that it was sort of the other way around. Light and stiff racquets were being churned out more and more, but once the word got out about poly strings allowing players to "buy more control", that's when the popularity of those strings really exploded. No biggie - I think that the two trends have gone hand in hand in a sort of co-dependence.

The way I heard it was that polyester came about in 1997 to combat the serve and volleyers with big serves (Sampras for instance). They allowed a heavy spin laden ball to dip over the net at their feet and be virtually unvolleyable. That kept volleyers back and allowed baseline grinders to control the game. As far as I recall, pros were still using heavy rackets in those days. My understanding is the Aeropro and Pure Drive Roddick were about 4-5 years later, designed to give more power with the poly strings. Before that Babolat had Pure Drive, Pure Control and Pure Power rackets with the Pure Control being the players frame and the other two being rec players rackets.

Most Wilson and Head users around then were using Pro staffs and Prestiges and Radicals in the late 1990's

But I agree that it was a very hand in hand thing but I'm pretty sure it was poly first before the mass stiffening of frames.

 

[Crocodile]

The idea of flexible, comfortable and good power is a good thing for tennis. We want as many people playing well and be pain free. I am fully behind the move to more flexible frames and racquets with feel.

 

[Kevo]

The secret is to make the frame flexible enough to tolerate Poly strings but powerful enough to overcome polyesters intrinsic lack of power.

I've found this to be very string and tension sensitive. I've gravitated toward lower powered, more flexible frames for some time now. I also tend to like polys, partially for the lower power and control and partially for the additional spin. I've found that power is not so hard to come by if you actually swing the racquet. I think having so many rec players out their swinging power frames has really hampered their learning. They don't really learn how to stroke the ball because they are instead learning to hold back to keep the ball in play.

In any case, I think it remains to be seen whether flexible frames are making a comeback. I'll believe it when something around RA 50 or lower is likely to be found in your average retail shop. That would be a good sign there's real hope. In the meantime I'll be hoarding my favorite graphite/fiberglass frames from the 80s.

 

[Ultra 2]

Poly strings came out in the 80's (maybe earlier) and my first experience with one was the Prince Poly (green string). Players back then were swinging through the ball rather than around the ball these days so it was scarcely used. To sustain that increased looping motion of the modern swing, a stiffer frame, lower swing weight and a thinner grip became more popular. Couple that with the non arm friendly attributes of using poly, I feel that's why people going back to a more arm friendly frame.. just a guess.

For the most part, I hated using poly until I recently strung up a leaded 13+ oz PS85 with LXN ALU BBO @ 48. I finally got the comfort, control, and spin I was looking for, but it would never be my daily driver.

My guess is that players are going back to more flexy frames to offset the harshness of poly.. or others just want that plush feel.

 

[IowaGuy]

Wasn't Guga the first ATP pro to use poly strings?

If not, who used them before Guga?

 

[rafa_prestige89]

Wasn't Guga the first ATP pro to use poly strings?

If not, who used them before Guga?

I'm not sure if he was the first to use it, but he was the first successful for sure.

 

[donnayblack99]

The Prince Phantom frames are delicious.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Poly strings came out in the 80's (maybe earlier)

True, poly was around for a long time. It was the cheap plastic string that they threw in el cheapo department store rackets. But the concept of using full poly strings in a professional match was more a late 90's phenomenon when it was noted that a lot of spin didn't come from strings "grabbing" the ball but from the snap back of strings. Polyester with its superior snap back started to make its way into pros rackets and I think it was Guga that truly made them popular as his heavy topspin decimated the field at the French Open.

In any event the game really changed around polyester strings and I think the rackets simply followed suit for the most part to maximize the defending baseline grinding style. I think its hurt a lot of rec players arms in the process.