Why would I need to reduce vibration as a rec player.
Im paying the company not the other way around, so they should do it for me.
Even pro players are going with softer setups so stiffness can be a problem for anyone.
Last edited:
Bonjour from Babolat: Part Trois
- Thread starter Babolat Official
- Start date
Why would I need to reduce vibration as a rec player.
Im paying the company not the other way around, so they should do it for me.
Even pro players are going with softer setups so stiffness can be a problem for anyone.
Karma Tennis
Legend
I dunno. Perhaps because tennis is more than just running around and hitting balls on a court?
You are paying the company for a tennis racquet. The company isn't responsible for how you choose to use the racquet. You are.
Pro Players and / or their support teams take responsibility for the equipment they use. Perhaps every "tennis" player should. Otherwise, stick with Soccer or Basketball.
haqq777
Legend
The entire college circuit is full of latest Pure Drives. Same for top regionally ranked players. Saw some junior tournaments too that had players using it. It is a very popular stick and I have seen some really good players obliterate the ball with it. I wouldn't in a million years suggest that you can't play serious tennis with it.
I have also seen a ton of league level club players using it too and loving it so I don't know. I think in the end it is a matter of preference. Like my fav PD is 2012 version which apparently everyone hates. But I love it. Even have two with Play option.
Club lvl league, juniors are not serious tennis .
Its were the money starts at mens futures lvl at least.
And there is a significant drop in pure drives with this new one.
A lot of challenger players used old 2012 pure drive and was really popular tho.
Last edited:
Thats what i said i will go with the company who does that already for me , and this was my constructive criticism for babolat on their page.
I had pd 2018 and was not happy with it.
Has really bad control.
Last edited:
haqq777
Legend
I disagree. There is no significant drop - if anything most of the Open level tournament have a bunch more of these since the Babolat marketing is on point. Younger players want the latest and greatest. All you see are Blades, Pure Drives and recently Yonexes on the circuit. Only the older players used to older models want older models. You won't see a 22 year old playing a 2012 model. Most sponsored players play latest versions and brands push their latest models out to their sponsored players, that's no secret. I have seen many Open level tournaments, talked to stringers there, and I regularly attend college tournaments (former college player). The smurf blue PD is very popular. Not sure where you are getting all this from.
Also, I think you are obfuscating the two things you mentioned. You said it was worst one made for "serious" tennis and that it is too stiff for rec players. FYI, US College circuit is as serious as it gets. Same for regional rankings and even USTA leagues. Read up some rec threads on this very forum. Or for that matter try telling junior players it isn't "serious" tennis.
Junior players that get free stuff will sure play with it.
And to get sponsored today is a joke.
Im close to 40 and still beat atp ranked players and top 100 juniors in club matches so for me college lvl is not that serious.
Serious tennis starts top future lvl , for me at least.
And there i dont see guys playing with it.
Not as before thats for sure.
I remember 2008 apd had the similar problem with control.
No one played with it .
Last edited:
haqq777
Legend
If you think college tennis is not serious, I am not sure what to tell you. And yes, even at Futures tournaments, there are a ton of new Pure Drives. I was at Columbus Futures Tournament held at OSU tennis center. It was 25K prize money. Plenty of new Pure Drives.
And you are 40 years old and beat ATP ranked players? Um okay. Would love to see a video of you hitting to see how good you really are.
dr. godmode
Hall of Fame
I would also love to hear more about your experiences as an advanced, serious player.
sanister
Professional
So whooooose willing to place wager that we never see any evidence of this advanced serious gameplay???
ahahaha nice to see you all so impressed with this **** , just made my day.
I was top 300 atp , anyone in somewhat shape who was at this lvl can do it even at 35 plus.
And about new pure drive, sure some play with it but its not what it used to be in my opinion so take it or leave it,
If someone still wants to play with it with all the new great choices well you can.
I was top 300 atp , anyone in somewhat shape who was at this lvl can do it even at 35 plus.
And about new pure drive, sure some play with it but its not what it used to be in my opinion so take it or leave it,
If someone still wants to play with it with all the new great choices well you can.
Alexh22
Professional
No problem. We are all good here. what is your name ? I hope there is no secret as Top 300 is quite an achievement in my book.
Well ty, but to be fair i was just couple of spots below 300, but top 300 sounds better hahaha.
My name is not important,
just because i played longer, bit faster or sacrificed my future playing crap futures doesnt mean i know more does it .
Even in real life as a coach i make far less money then some coaches that can barely play since my experience doesnt make difference in most cases.
Its very relative stuff .
Was just making a point that i can use the racquet on high lvl and it was bad, I think that much i can tell.
Im sure some string set ups or some customization can help a bit but with so much better frames why bother if you buying it.
Last edited:
Alexh22
Professional
Well I was just asking for some more proof on your top 300 claim. If you cannot provide even the slightest info to back that up I guess I just have to see this as a so-called atp top 300 ... on a forum. Your top300 view is now inrelative
@Babolat Official. This declined quickly huh?
Haha fair enough, its same for everybody who wants privacy on forum.
You just believe them or you dont.
Why do you think that
I am sure that I had a Pure Control Zylon. Not Pure Storm.
Are you sure it was 70 RA unstrung?
Last time I've seen the Pure Control on TWE, though not Zylon, it had 59 RA published.
I'll be honest that I don't remember anymore the stiffness rating of the PC Zylon, but seeing the 59 RA for Pure Control, I assumed it was in a similar range.
Either way, with RA around 70 or around 59, I was able to play a few years, hitting the ball harder than I do nowadays, without any discomfort, while the Pure Aero gives me more and more pain in the left wrist when I hit BH.
Tried Gravity Tour and MP, and with same strings, at similar tension the pain disappears. Actually the Gravity is strung at a bit higher tension.
String = RPM Blast Rough
Tension used for PA = 23 kg (mains) / 22 kg (crosses)
Don't remember the tension used in Gravity, but I guess around 25/24 kg.
P.S.
This link mentions RA = 62 for one of the Pure Controls.
Tennis Warehouse - Babolat Pure Control Racquet Review
www.tennis-warehouse.com
So, a bit difficult to believe that the Zylon PC had RA of 70.
haqq777
Legend
Pure Control Zylon 360 had an unstrung RA of 70 and strung RA of 67, like I mentioned earlier.I am sure that I had a Pure Control Zylon. Not Pure Storm.
Are you sure it was 70 RA unstrung?
Last time I've seen the Pure Control on TWE, though not Zylon, it had 59 RA published.
I'll be honest that I don't remember anymore the stiffness rating of the PC Zylon, but seeing the 59 RA for Pure Control, I assumed it was in a similar range.
Either way, with RA around 70 or around 59, I was able to play a few years, hitting the ball harder than I do nowadays, without any discomfort, while the Pure Aero gives me more and more pain in the left wrist when I hit BH.
Tried Gravity Tour and MP, and with same strings, at similar tension the pain disappears. Actually the Gravity is strung at a bit higher tension.
String = RPM Blast Rough
Tension used for PA = 23 kg (mains) / 22 kg (crosses)
Don't remember the tension used in Gravity, but I guess around 25/24 kg.
P.S.
This link mentions RA = 62 for one of the Pure Controls.
Tennis Warehouse - Babolat Pure Control Racquet Review
So, a bit difficult to believe that the Zylon PC had RA of 70.
The last gen of Pure Controls that you cited were softer. But those were the last gen and not older ones which I was pointing to. They were the least popular too because they lacked in everything and were an odd mix of Storms and Controls. Older Pure Controls were either low 70s (Swirlys for example at 72) or no lower than 70 (like the Team and Zylon 360). Unstrung off course.
I played regularly with older PCTs and PC which on paper were very stiff. Still have a couple of those. Never had any issues either. Absolute beasts and would obliterate the ball.
Faris
Professional
Very interesting, thanks for all the info haqq. What were the Storms like when these last generation of Pure Controls were launched?Pure Control Zylon 360 had an unstrung RA of 70 and strung RA of 67, like I mentioned earlier.
The last gen of Pure Controls that you cited were softer. But those were the last gen and not older ones which I was pointing to. They were the least popular too because they lacked in everything and were an odd mix of Storms and Controls. Older Pure Controls were either low 70s (Swirlys for example at 72) or no lower than 70 (like the Team and Zylon 360). Unstrung off course.
I played regularly with older PCTs and PC which on paper were very stiff. Still have a couple of those. Never had any issues either. Absolute beasts and would obliterate the ball.
Yeah I understand it.Hi Matt,
Nice! Definitely curious to hear how it plays. I haven't been stringing as much as I'd like, just busy in my department since our manager left in June. I wasn't happy to hear about the situation at Roland Garros, but I'm sure there were good reasons on both sides that the contract wasn't renewed. I'm hopeful this is just start of something new and better instead of thinking of it as the end of something. I'm sure there will be more opportunities for us down the road and I just hope to be a part of them
Josh
Hopefully see you over in Wimbledon next year or there abouts in Europe! Stay well
haqq777
Legend
No problem at all. The Pure Storms were discontinued when they released these last gen Pure Controls. But the last two versions of Pure Storms were GT (2009 and 2011) and they played brilliant. Many fans here including myself, @topspn, @sanister to name a few. I didn't like the Carbon Xtreme version before the GTs as much.
sanister
Professional
Yeah, love those!! I played with pure storm tours but then after my injury went with regular pure storms to lower the static weight...they sure don't make em like those. Loved the feel and feedback. I don't use newer babolats, feel hollow and tinny comparatively
Pure Control Zylon 360 had an unstrung RA of 70 and strung RA of 67, like I mentioned earlier.
The last gen of Pure Controls that you cited were softer. But those were the last gen and not older ones which I was pointing to. They were the least popular too because they lacked in everything and were an odd mix of Storms and Controls. Older Pure Controls were either low 70s (Swirlys for example at 72) or no lower than 70 (like the Team and Zylon 360). Unstrung off course.
I played regularly with older PCTs and PC which on paper were very stiff. Still have a couple of those. Never had any issues either. Absolute beasts and would obliterate the ball.
thanks for the specs.
Either way, comparing that old PC, which was strung with different strings, and I played at younger age, is not fair vs current situation.
Currently, facts are:
-> since some time during the summer, I started to have pain in the left wrist (I am a righty) -> feeling it while hitting the BH
-> at the beginning it would appear occasionally, now stays regularly when I play with PA
-> with APD, same strings (RPM Blast Rough), I didn't have any sort of pain, but soon after switch from APD to PA, I had on a few occasions pain in the right wrist, then all OK, now left wrist
-> I was testing the Gravity during a total of 4 weeks during autumn. Same strings (RPM Blast Rough), no pain in the left wrist
so, so far all the evidence leads to the PA as being the culprit.
P.S.
As I sold my PC on ****, I checked the mails, and it was mentioned Babolat Soft Control, which has an RA of 62 according to TW racquetfinder.
Not sure if I played with Zylon, or it was my hitting partner back then who played with Zylon, while I could have played with Soft Control, which would be of similar stiffness like Gravity.
Or perhaps I had both, Zylon and Soft Control, and for whatever reason decided to sell first Zylon first and keep the SC.
Either way, those were different times, when I used different strings, and was younger.
haqq777
Legend
No problem.
I am a fan of the 2013 APD (see my signature). I didn't like the previous gen PA, but for different reasones. Just did not like how it played. Did not play with it long enough to truly understand it, or develop any pain etc. It can also be that some people are more susceptible to elbow/arm issues. For example, I understand how strings can change a way the racquet plays. For sure. But I have always been a full poly guy and remember using Cyber Flash and PHT (sometimes even BBO) in my 72 RA Swirlys and never felt even a twinge. I am 36 years old right now. My main racquet of choice these days is 2013 APD. Not exactly a soft noodle. And I string with full bed poly. So wrist/elbow/arm issues can vary greatly from person to person.
Also, Soft Control later morphed into Pure Storm Team around late 2004. Different mold and beam thickness (Soft Controls were 19 and Storm Teams were 21.5), but Soft Controls were great platform racquets and much closer in spec to Pure Storms (low 60 RA, static weight, close to even balance etc) than Pure Controls. But both your Zylon and Soft Control would have different feedback. One would play crisper than the other given you strung them up same.
Gravity Pro and MP both are great racquets. Definitely softer than Pure Aero and you can tell instantly. I did a demo for both, even played with MP for a while. Nice racquet but I ended up selling mine. If it suits your arm and game, I don't see a reason why you shouldn't play with it.
Either way, I think we agree that older Babolat were no slouch
marceloriosfan
Rookie
what a well thought out and articulated opinion
marceloriosfan
Rookie
dr. godmode
Hall of Fame
@Babolat Official do you have any more info on the 2020 Pure Aero VS? Release date, have you played with it yet? What are they trying to produce with this stick?
Karma Tennis
Legend
Josh has already said the the Release Date is March 3rd 2020. Not long to go now.
What a well thought and articulated post.
Well you you got me there, I didnt see it coming.
I might need to change a forum.
liriel
Semi-Pro
Sorry to interrupt but I'd love to play a Babolat. Haven't tried Aero (should I? what's the main difference between PD and aero, I can't demo aero!) but tried PD lite and regular. Unlike you guys, I'm a recreational player, have been playing in the summer only for quite a few years so I should play better but I'm just so-so, no serious club player wants to play with me as a partner in doubles (and singles duh). My game depends on the opponents, I'm often missing sweetspot, you name it. I loved the pure drive but heard "oh, i'm a guy and play 295g and you - a female want to 300? it's too much". maybe he's right, after all I demoed it for a few minutes only. I so wish there was a 285 g version of it.
About the STIFFNESS. It felt stiff. Stable but a little too stiff. How to string it/make it less stiff? So far I have no health issues *knocks on wood*. Or would I get used to it?
About the STIFFNESS. It felt stiff. Stable but a little too stiff. How to string it/make it less stiff? So far I have no health issues *knocks on wood*. Or would I get used to it?
djNEiGht
Legend
I believe PD is power/control VS Aero power/spin
liriel
Semi-Pro
I know it's the worst question but what's more important for someone who often misses sweet spot and the ball itself or hits the frame.. More spin or control? For the record I'm still learning how to generate a spin so a spin-machine would be great
but control..
djNEiGht
Legend
sweet spot - practice. as you practice you will be able to get spin and control. As players get better, then they will get to know if they are a flat, spin, heavy spin player.I know it's the worst question but what's more important for someone who often misses sweet spot and the ball itself or hits the frame.. More spin or control? For the record I'm still learning how to generate a spin so a spin-machine would be great
Since you are interested in the Babolat line, be cautious on the strings so you can get what ever comfort you can while you improve your game. synthetic gut is my suggestion and can serve you well through many levels of play.
liriel
Semi-Pro
Thank you, I'm still not "sold" on Babolat, I'll demo others too. What strings would you recommend?
Aero has way way better control, spin and comfort and all the power is there you will ever need, no real weakness except for ultra flat players and players who played all their life with different setups. If someone offered me aero i take it any day.
Pure drive is just easy to pick up and blast shots that is why mostly women use it hehe...pure drive lite is a much better option then pure drive , it has some control and its easy to pick up and play. Light versions are very cool and I would use it if I didnt play against 5.0 and above players,
If you miss off center then softer frame is better like new aero.
Last edited:
Being better player then most here means nothing really . There are way better posts then i wrote and way better reviews then i can ever make.
Maybe it would give my posts bit more credit in short run but in long run it would mean nothing.Coz many give better info then me.
So its a trade off I will not make...
what is your playing style? that's the question
Pure Aero - it's a spin monster, that has quite a lot of power. Control comes mostly from spin.
Pure Drive - it's a power monster, yet has a lot of spin
Pure Strike - it's in the middle ground, not as powerful as PD, not as much spin as PA, yet a more versatile frame, allowing for more directional control as well for easier volley than the previous 2, with thinner beam
If your game is centered around hitting groundies all day long, as hard as you can, with as much spin as you can, then PA might be your best friend.
Though Thiem is doing quite the same with Pure Strike.
If you want to play the "all court" style, then PA / PD might help you in some areas like service & groundies, yet be a tad difficult for other areas like volley for example.
And no, volley is not impossible with these 2 frames, it's just the thing that there are better options for volley.
From Babolat range, you probably shall have a closer look at Pure Strike range, or PA VS, PD VS.
Also, if you prefer to hit flat shots, then PA / PD, might not help you with that, you would probably be better with Pure Strike range, or PA VS, PD VS.
As for stiffness.
It's not black and white.
If you search the internet, you'll see that some sources actually do recommend stiffer rackets.
Long story made short, there are many variables, and probably nobody knows it all.
You can try playing with whatever racket you like, if you notice pain / discomfort, occurring repeatedly -> consider switching to a different frame. If not -> enjoy the game.
marceloriosfan
Rookie
so
seeing as we just want proof you were a top 300 player... not sure why you're getting defensive and being petty about this?
Alas, I'll try to explain, because this is a stupid thing to be arguing about in a forum on the internet about tennis rackets:
Being top 300 ATP is a cool/impressive accomplishment and we don't get that perspective in this forum. We value diversity of opinion and we believe yours will add to what makes this a great place for tennis junkies to connect and debate (and from time to time, troll and argue). That said, we want to make sure you are actually the level of player you claim to be. We don't worry as much about people lying about being a 4.0 or 5.0 because we come across players like that in person and in the forum relatively regularly. However, when things get heated, sometimes people get called out for video proof. Being top 300 is pretty unique and we want to make sure we are't getting trolled or lied to, so we can listen to your opinion and ask you questions knowing the answer comes from a credible source.
But that is all the energy I can spend on this. I concede. You've owned me and are superior on the tennis court and in forum banter. I'll take your word you were top 300 and look forward to having you as part of the community.
I think the current Pure Drive is the best since pre-cortex swirly and block letter. It's not the style of frame for everyone (I do't believe there is not one racket superior to all, it depends on the player and their game otherwise all the top 300 would use the exact same racket?) but there are serious players who are successful with it.
What do you think are the best rackets for serious players and why? Not just Babolat.
seeing as we just want proof you were a top 300 player... not sure why you're getting defensive and being petty about this?
Alas, I'll try to explain, because this is a stupid thing to be arguing about in a forum on the internet about tennis rackets:
Being top 300 ATP is a cool/impressive accomplishment and we don't get that perspective in this forum. We value diversity of opinion and we believe yours will add to what makes this a great place for tennis junkies to connect and debate (and from time to time, troll and argue). That said, we want to make sure you are actually the level of player you claim to be. We don't worry as much about people lying about being a 4.0 or 5.0 because we come across players like that in person and in the forum relatively regularly. However, when things get heated, sometimes people get called out for video proof. Being top 300 is pretty unique and we want to make sure we are't getting trolled or lied to, so we can listen to your opinion and ask you questions knowing the answer comes from a credible source.
But that is all the energy I can spend on this. I concede. You've owned me and are superior on the tennis court and in forum banter. I'll take your word you were top 300 and look forward to having you as part of the community.
I think the current Pure Drive is the best since pre-cortex swirly and block letter. It's not the style of frame for everyone (I do't believe there is not one racket superior to all, it depends on the player and their game otherwise all the top 300 would use the exact same racket?) but there are serious players who are successful with it.
What do you think are the best rackets for serious players and why? Not just Babolat.
marceloriosfan
Rookie
good post
only thing to add: string matters!!!
experiment with materials, hybrids, tensions, gauges, etc.
jmacdaununder2
Legend
My buddy's wife is always telling him he's in her top 300; apparently due to his elite speed
Well that was fun and clever as well.
I enjoyed it very much.
The thing with the current pure drive is that its really easy to play with as soon as you try it.
And people mix that easy to use with good in general.So if a pure drive hits 2 meters long its no biggie.
About serious players (which i consider high lvl futures about 300 atp since they can play some challengers as well which is a door to pro tennis)
you need a frame you can play futures 3 balls 11, 13 games change , and then challenger next week 7 , 9 games 6 balls change.
And that is huge.Dead balls vs new balls.
Challengers players are same quality as atp minus some consistency but they play faster since price money is crap and they take more risk.
Imagine playing first round for 300 dollars or for 30k dollars as in slams.
So control is crucial at challenger and at futures you need more power since dead balls.
Also you need to buy racket at this ranking same as everyone else in stock form since no one gets free stuff until below 200 atp.This goes for whole eastern europe for sure .
So you just take what everyone else is having.
And there are very few stock racquets that fit the bill.
Like old blades mostly 16x19 cv as well , or new ultra or burn.
black pure drive gt , six one wilson 18x20 , prestiges, new aero and such....
I Didnt play for almost 15 years tho and dont know what is popular now, but i do have 2 challenger lvl friends that played babolat pure drive
and they play yellow one now.And i was on couple of challengers last year and didnt see one.
Plus i tried it and was crap.
And a funny story , head flexpoint prestige mid was worst and slowest frame ever made but so many people used in futures and they played like crap with it,
Why?
Coz futures players only think how to get 5 or 10 points and make no excuses as rackets and such, in fact they know very little about rackets.
while rec players like to do that too much.
Last edited:
Karma Tennis
Legend
You know what the main difference between mediocre, good, and great players is?
It is ATTENTION TO DETAIL.
The players who end up having the greatest success are those who focus on attention to detail. And a big part of that in tennis is the equipment that a player users.
Tennis racquets, strings, clothing, shoes, etc. are simply tools that the player uses to ply their trade. The smart players pay a great detail of attention to these tools, in particular the racquets and strings.
Players who just follow the pack are just lazy. And we all know where lazy people usually end up?
Smart players focus on every match as if it is a fresh start. If they don't understand their equipment and how it can be configured to optimise their game, and maximise their chances of success ... then I say they are Journeymen who are wasting their time pursuing higher levels of the sport.
By all means, go and have a good time playing tennis, see the world, make new friends, enjoy the experience. But don't delude oneself into thinking they are destined for "Greatness". Because those who achieve greatness are the ones constantly refining their game and their equipment, not sightseeing.
I've said it before. I think Babolat makes fantastic racquets that are suited to a wide range of playing styles AND more importantly, make great base platforms for customisation. People who constantly whine about how they are supposedly too stiff, or too hollow, or too clunkly, blah blah blah, don't understand the potential of the products. They are probably better off looking elsewhere rather than constantly whinging.
It is ATTENTION TO DETAIL.
The players who end up having the greatest success are those who focus on attention to detail. And a big part of that in tennis is the equipment that a player users.
Tennis racquets, strings, clothing, shoes, etc. are simply tools that the player uses to ply their trade. The smart players pay a great detail of attention to these tools, in particular the racquets and strings.
Players who just follow the pack are just lazy. And we all know where lazy people usually end up?
Smart players focus on every match as if it is a fresh start. If they don't understand their equipment and how it can be configured to optimise their game, and maximise their chances of success ... then I say they are Journeymen who are wasting their time pursuing higher levels of the sport.
By all means, go and have a good time playing tennis, see the world, make new friends, enjoy the experience. But don't delude oneself into thinking they are destined for "Greatness". Because those who achieve greatness are the ones constantly refining their game and their equipment, not sightseeing.
I've said it before. I think Babolat makes fantastic racquets that are suited to a wide range of playing styles AND more importantly, make great base platforms for customisation. People who constantly whine about how they are supposedly too stiff, or too hollow, or too clunkly, blah blah blah, don't understand the potential of the products. They are probably better off looking elsewhere rather than constantly whinging.
Well thats was a quite a speech you gave there.
To bad didnt discover nothing new in your small moment of inspiration.
Gear makes sense when you are using your maximal potential in a game or close to it.
Then it becomes a big part.
Also players that can use their max potential are extremely rare and sporadic and make top 100 players, and that is why no country has primate in the sport.
In a case you game is not up there gear will only make you worse since if you think even for a second that problem is in a gear its game over.
Seen it happen many times on futures qually ,,, such players never got one point.No matter what you do if the quality is not there gear will not help you.
That is why 0.1 % college players end up in top 100 with all the nice gear they want.And some Romanians without grips and shoes end up top 100.
Your problem is you compare pro tennis with usual job or college success normatives which is simply not enough.
That being said in rec tennis gear plays much bigger part and can help to have more fun and stay healthy.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
how is the popularity of the new pure strike 2 ? I see so many players are switching to it locally. I seen even the intermediate players using it......LOL
Karma Tennis
Legend
You presume that the Top Pro. Players in the world are the best tennis players on the planet. When actually, the Top Pro. Players in the world are the best players in a subset of players who choose to play tennis professionally.
The other thing you fail to recognise, at any level a contest is a contest, a win is a win.
As I said, tennis equipment is simply a tool. Better tools will tend to produce better results, regardless of the level.
Well yeah there are like 6 billion plus of best players in the world or at least everyone that held racket once has a right to say that with your logic.
They just didnt choose to play pro.
Only problem is you cant define better tool since its very subjective same as you opinion on top players.
I rather be a failure that one of those millions who got nothing but excuses any day. At least I know i tried.
TennisHound
Legend
Edit
Last edited:
