Could a version of Grigor Dimitrov with a servebot -sque serve and a bigger FH have won Slams?

[NedStark]

Dimitrov is someone who has a very unreliable serve and clearly lacks firepower off both his serve and FH, despite being 1m91 (you know, same as Boris Becker). Even 1m80 Wawrinka served bigger than Dimitrov. I think these are the reasons why he turned into a grinder despite having a fairly aggressive game when he was younger - lacking “meat-and-potatoes” weapons (serve/FH/BH). Yet, his A-game, as seen in AO 2017 SF, is very respectable.

In comparison, his peer Milos Raonic, despite lacking almost everything Dimitrov possesses, has two powerful “meat-and-potatoes” shots - serve & FH, plus an aggressive approach to the game that earned him a Slam final.

I wonder could he have done a lot better, if not winning Slams, with a big bomb serve (like say, Becker serve, or if not, at least like Tsonga serve) and an actual big FH (combined with his athleticism, touch and BH slice). He clearly has the physical attributes to have such a huge serve and perhaps trying to copy Fed serve is the reason why his serve could never reach a higher level.

 

[Fabresque]

His problem was never really down to technique or lacking a specific shot.

His problem was always mental. His tennis IQ was always lacking and he didn’t know how to pace himself in long matches.

 

[NeutralFan]

With an Isner serve he would have won many slams, his ground game is actually not bad at all like Isner and has fine movement.

 

[Chanwan]

Could a non-Grigor win slams? Sure

 

[travlerajm]

Yes.

 

[DSH]

With an Isner serve he would have won many slams, his ground game is actually not bad at all like Isner and has fine movement.

I was always surprised that someone like Dimitrov didn't have much better mobility.
One of his great handicaps.

 

[Olli Jokinen]

Dimitrov is someone who has a very unreliable serve and clearly lacks firepower off both his serve and FH, despite being 1m91 (you know, same as Boris Becker). Even 1m80 Wawrinka served bigger than Dimitrov. I think these are the reasons why he turned into a grinder despite having a fairly aggressive game when he was younger - lacking “meat-and-potatoes” weapons (serve/FH/BH). Yet, his A-game, as seen in AO 2017 SF, is very respectable.

In comparison, his peer Milos Raonic, despite lacking almost everything Dimitrov possesses, has two powerful “meat-and-potatoes” shots - serve & FH, plus an aggressive approach to the game that earned him a Slam final.

I wonder could he have done a lot better, if not winning Slams, with a big bomb serve (like say, Becker serve, or if not, at least like Tsonga serve) and an actual big FH (combined with his athleticism, touch and BH slice). He clearly has the physical attributes to have such a huge serve and perhaps trying to copy Fed serve is the reason why his serve could never reach a higher level.

So basically Federer? Yes.

 

[accidental]

What you are describing is possibly the greatest player of all time. A 6’3 Federer with a Becker level serve

 

[Aretium]

He lacks weapons and doesn’t defend his backhand side as well as some. Not just mental strength.

Also I think roger defends his backhand side better than any other one handed, sure some attack better and hit bigger but dimi and tsitsi don’t do well under pressure on that side

 

[BVSlam]

No point to this hypothetical. The changes are way too big to think about a "what if" scenario. That's not Grigor Dimitrov anymore. Also, if he were truly capable of just making his serve and forehand bigger without completely losing control and consistency, he would have done so.

Being able to make some crazy trickshots is just one form of talent within the grander scope of playing tennis. He has a fine serve and forehand as it is. He's just not as good as utilising them fully as some of the greatest players. That, unfortunately, is also a subtalent in tennis that he doesn't have enough of to go to the heights of big champions.

Luck also plays a major role. Gaston Gaudio for example won RG at exactly the right time. Yet I really don't think Gaudio is anywhere near as good as Dimitrov despite having a slam and Dimitrov having not even a final. Dimitrov has the game for an incidental slam win, but it just didn't happen for him.

 

[SonnyT]

Not in today's game! Every servebot, from Isner to Opelka, plays a minor role in today's game.

 

[beltsman]

His problem was never really down to technique or lacking a specific shot.

His problem was always mental. His tennis IQ was always lacking and he didn’t know how to pace himself in long matches.

Perhaps the mental follows, at least in part, the ability. What I mean is that it is much easier to be mentally stronger if you have reliable weapons like a serve+1.

 

[Clay lover]

A lot of guys can win slams with a bigger forehand and a big serve lol - and a lot of them have a much better chance with those weapons than Dimitrov

 

[Clay lover]

No point to this hypothetical. The changes are way too big to think about a "what if" scenario. That's not Grigor Dimitrov anymore. Also, if he were truly capable of just making his serve and forehand bigger without completely losing control and consistency, he would have done so.

Being able to make some crazy trickshots is just one form of talent within the grander scope of playing tennis. He has a fine serve and forehand as it is. He's just not as good as utilising them fully as some of the greatest players. That, unfortunately, is also a subtalent in tennis that he doesn't have enough of to go to the heights of big champions.

Luck also plays a major role. Gaston Gaudio for example won RG at exactly the right time. Yet I really don't think Gaudio is anywhere near as good as Dimitrov despite having a slam and Dimitrov having not even a final. Dimitrov has the game for an incidental slam win, but it just didn't happen for him.

Well I'd argue Gaudio is a better player on clay than Dimitrov

 

[Fabresque]

Perhaps the mental follows, at least in part, the ability. What I mean is that it is much easier to be mentally stronger if you have reliable weapons like a serve+1.

Someone mentioned it but at that point he’d literally just be Federer, and yes he’d win slams. Plenty of them.

 

[beltsman]

Someone mentioned it but at that point he’d literally just be Federer, and yes he’d win slams. Plenty of them.

Yeah I agree this is not a very fun hypo but just wanted to make that point. His FH should be a better shot than it is, though.

 

[Martin J]

No point to this hypothetical. The changes are way too big to think about a "what if" scenario. That's not Grigor Dimitrov anymore. Also, if he were truly capable of just making his serve and forehand bigger without completely losing control and consistency, he would have done so.

Being able to make some crazy trickshots is just one form of talent within the grander scope of playing tennis. He has a fine serve and forehand as it is. He's just not as good as utilising them fully as some of the greatest players. That, unfortunately, is also a subtalent in tennis that he doesn't have enough of to go to the heights of big champions.

Luck also plays a major role. Gaston Gaudio for example won RG at exactly the right time. Yet I really don't think Gaudio is anywhere near as good as Dimitrov despite having a slam and Dimitrov having not even a final. Dimitrov has the game for an incidental slam win, but it just didn't happen for him.

At least he got an open path to the WTF title, facing arguably the weakest draw in the history of that tournament, so he wasn't that unlucky after all.

 

[Martin J]

Well I'd argue Gaudio is a better player on clay than Dimitrov

Gaudio is clearly better on clay I would say.

 

[heavyD]

If he was a servbot with a better forehand he wouldn't be Grigor Dimitrov. He would be Milos Raonic who we could start a thread titled "If Milos Raonic had Djokovic's body and endurance would he have won slams", etc, etc.

 

[robthai]

His fragile mind was his greatest enemy. Dimitrov always had the game to win slams.

 

[Chanwan]

His fragile mind was his greatest enemy. Dimitrov always had the game to win slams.

Lendl concurs

Lendl: A fit Dimitrov could be world No. 1 | Tennis.com

Lendl says Dimitrov is talented enough to top the rankings, but p

www.tennis.com

 

[ghostofMecir]

His problem was never really down to technique or lacking a specific shot.

His problem was always mental. His tennis IQ was always lacking and he didn’t know how to pace himself in long matches.

It was definitely mental, but it was also physical and technical.

Take the usual comparison people make with Federer. Federer‘s FH, even the diminished one with the new racket and of course lost movement to it is just tiers above GrIgor’s as he takes it so much earlier. On the BH, Federer half-volleys so many balls standing right on the baseline and returns much better getting back balls in play. Lastly, though Federer is shorter, his serve is Tiers above Grigor’s in that the toss is GOAT tier, i.e., cannot tell where he’s hitting it and the placement is GOAT tier.

Even a Dmitrov with his shaky mentality with the above traits would win slams though you could argue that his mentality would be stronger if he DID have the above physical/technical skills,

 

[Chanwan]

It was definitely mental, but it was also physical and technical.

Take the usual comparison people make with Federer. Federer‘s FH, even the diminished one with the new racket and of course lost movement to it is just tiers above GrIgor’s as he takes it so much earlier. On the BH, Federer half-volleys so many balls standing right on the baseline and returns much better getting back balls in play. Lastly, though Federer is shorter, his serve is Tiers above Grigor’s in that the toss is GOAT tier, i.e., cannot tell where he’s hitting it and the placement is GOAT tier.

Even a Dmitrov with his shaky mentality with the above traits would win slams though you could argue that his mentality would be stronger if he DID have the above physical/technical skills,

This

 

[TheNachoMan]

Could I win a slam if I had world class movement, serve, forehand, backhand, volleys, mentality and fitness?

 

[Sephiroth]

No amount of ability can counter tennis IQ, so no

 

[Sephiroth]

Could Ned Stark stop his head getting guillotined if he didn't go to King's Landing?

 

[jm1980]

No amount of ability can counter tennis IQ, so no

It's more the other way around, i.e.: no amount of tennis IQ can counter (lack of) ability

 

[Blahovic]

Dimitrov already has all the skills and athleticism to win slams (see AO 2017 SF, one of the most slept on matches of the decade), he just didn't have it mentally.

 

[Picmun]

Ask @ArcspacE

 

[Picmun]

What the hell is wrong with Dimitrov?

It's a fascinating observation. I too cannot get my head around the decline of his serve. In 2009-2011 it was a weapon, now it's a liability. His serve was pretty good until he switch his racquet

tt.tennis-warehouse.com

 

[Picmun]

Poor Dimitrov... got destroyed again LOL!

Getting this one started... will be the first of many comedic meltdowns in 2016 for this overrated clown. He puts the "baby" into "Baby Fed" that's for sure.

tt.tennis-warehouse.com

 

[BeatlesFan]

What you are describing is possibly the greatest player of all time. A 6’3 Federer with a Becker level serve

Becker himself said "tennis 90% mental." Dimi could have a Sampras serve and he wouldn't have won slams because he's been a choker and mentally weak his entire career. Beautiful game but his brain is not.

 

[NedStark]

Yeah I agree this is not a very fun hypo but just wanted to make that point. His FH should be a better shot than it is, though.

His serve as well

 

[T007]

What you are describing is possibly the greatest player of all time. A 6’3 Federer with a Becker level serve

Federer had a better serve than becker

 

[T007]

He should have won 2014 SF vs Djoker had he mentally been stronger. That was the downfall moment for him.

 

[NedStark]

Federer had a better serve than becker

No he did not, this is so obvious

 

[NedStark]

He should have won 2014 SF vs Djoker had he mentally been stronger. That was the downfall moment for him.

Agree with this though. It was not unwinnable. It could have been his moment.

On top of that, AO2014 QF.

 

[T007]

No he did not, this is so obvious

Stats don't lie. Even Becker never faced good returned of the caliber of Djoker,Nadal,Murray,hewitt

 

[T007]

Agree with this though. It was not unwinnable. It could have been his moment.

On top of that, AO2014 QF.

That was against Nadal. And I also remember He choked another one against Murray in AO lost after being 5-2 up.

 

[Olli Jokinen]

Stats don't lie. Even Becker never faced good returned of the caliber of Djoker,Nadal,Murray,hewitt

Stats could make a case for both of them. Personally, I would go for Federer. A flat, hard first serve isn't everything.
Becker: https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?playerId=1414&tab=statistics&season=1997
Federer: https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?name=Roger Federer&tab=statistics

 

[Oval_Solid]

dimitrov is kicking himself for copying fed instead of djoker

 

[T007]

Stats could make a case for both of them. Personally, I would go for Federer. A flat, hard first serve isn't everything.
Becker: https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?playerId=1414&tab=statistics&season=1997
Federer: https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?name=Roger Federer&tab=statistics

Stats show Boris was behind Federer key parameters like BPs saved,Service Game won,2nd serve points won.

 

[NedStark]

dimitrov is kicking himself for copying fed instead of djoker

Well, there was no Djokovic to copy when Dimi was 14-15.

Anw, he is among the few guys who are better off with a 1hbh, even though his BH is average at best.

Becker himself said "tennis 90% mental." Dimi could have a Sampras serve and he wouldn't have won slams because he's been a choker and mentally weak his entire career. Beautiful game but his brain is not.

Mental problems could also result from technical weaknesses. Having more strengths and less weaknesses will make you more confident and mentally stronger as they will help you out of troubles one day. I mean, a Sampras serve would have bailed him out of troubles a lot more than real life.

IMO, Dimitrov 2014 with either his 2017 version’s BH, or Becker-level serve and FH, would have won Slams (s) in 2014. 2014 was when his serve and FH peaked (but still not at the very very top) while 2017 was when his BH was at its best.

 

[NedStark]

It was definitely mental, but it was also physical and technical.

Take the usual comparison people make with Federer. Federer‘s FH, even the diminished one with the new racket and of course lost movement to it is just tiers above GrIgor’s as he takes it so much earlier. On the BH, Federer half-volleys so many balls standing right on the baseline and returns much better getting back balls in play. Lastly, though Federer is shorter, his serve is Tiers above Grigor’s in that the toss is GOAT tier, i.e., cannot tell where he’s hitting it and the placement is GOAT tier.

Even a Dmitrov with his shaky mentality with the above traits would win slams though you could argue that his mentality would be stronger if he DID have the above physical/technical skills,

Agree. And shaky mentality was also partially a result from technical/physical weaknesses.

Dimitrov already has all the skills and athleticism to win slams (see AO 2017 SF, one of the most slept on matches of the decade), he just didn't have it mentally.

Still lacked a serve comparable to someone at his height, though. Even in 2014 his serve was barely passable (for a 6ft3 dude).

 

[top10]

Dimitrov has the serve and the forehand (and then some to spare).
He lacks the fitness and the mentality…

 

[LaVie en Rose]

That one would be entirely different player.

 

[NedStark]

Well, I decided to revisit this thread after watching Eubanks’ recent run.

Eubanks was essentially the much worse version of the kind of hypothetical player I envisioned in this thread, and he pulled a QF run in his first main draw debut and pushing No.3 as much as he could. Raonic had a much better serve/forehand combo but was kinda too slow. At the same time, Dimitrov after 2014 had a very ordinary serve plus never attacked and put pressure on his opponents enough and instead played like a grinder.