Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Rafa can keep that bud open record!2-1 budgood morning!
CYGS is not the Ultimate Achievement in Tennis, DOMINATING 3 Generations is .....
- Thread starter Sunny014
- Start date
D
Deleted member 748597
Guest
You don't agree that Nishikori is an ATG? Obviously not the Tier 1 ATG, but still an ATG.
UnforcedTerror
Hall of Fame
Oh ****, you're right Nishikori's bank account is on another level compared to many other ATGs so he should definitely be included in each GOAT list there is.
Sunny014
Legend
Bank Accounts will be checked for guys who held slams record in their careers at least for 1 day and also if possible the weeks at 1 record as well, that way we know they earned money for their tennis skills and not because of them being a one eyed king among blind men in their country.
The point is, this is not about bank account, it is about brand value which signified iconic status, so if the greatest player of all time doesn't have an iconic status big enough then it means his records did not have the impact that they should have had..... it is simple
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Melzer beat Joker from 2-0 down, so good self own there I guess. And that’s still better than Karatsev (playing in his first main draw of a major), and Shapo wetting the bed on every BP chance.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Different achievements hard to compare, basically longevity vs concentrated dominance. In terms of difficulty though winning 13 titles at ANY slam (which basically per definition includes dominating three generations) is harder to achieve. We have seen CYGS and even if Novak does not win it this year it will happen again at some point. 13 titles at one slam is unique until now and I seriously doubt anyone of us will see another player in his lifetime who will repeat this feat.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
It’s like the next generation of trolling!Have to give credit to the OP for basically rotating which fanbase to troll next.
Sunny014
Legend
Right
Dominating 3 generations at a stretch, that is like close to 2 decades.
Never seen before on any surface and never shall be seen again, NCYGS/CYGS has happened in a few times in ATP and WTA, shall happen again.
Strale
Semi-Pro
That is 13 slams and with high probability it might become 14...Also it is achieved in less time than 13 FO of Nadal.
So Djokovic is superior confirmed.
O
OhYes
Guest
If it's just, then it is understandable why nobody after Laver did it.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
2000 reasons why Nishikori is ATG. Coming soon.
Madinolf
Rookie
Strale
Semi-Pro
I dont consider Laver's achievement in the same tier as Djokovic's...Nole had it tougher (if he wins it).
O
OhYes
Guest
Me too. As if they played 2 different sports. Not in the same league.
killerboss
Professional
Nadal dominated slam head to head when the players were all in their 20s and not a million years old. Nadal also has the generic numbers in and around the same ballpark as his rivals. Djokovic needs to seperate himself from the slamcount for there to be no argument on GOAT.
Strale
Semi-Pro
Of course i never imagined he could even win 1 slam on his entire career...
Sunny014
Legend
Holding 4 slams together, anyone can do it....
Don Budge did it
Laver did it twice (must be very easy back then)
Mcenroe almost did it (he was stopped by zoning ATG Lendl and in his time AO was skipped)
Connors would also have done it but only 3 slams that year, that prevented him....
Steffi did it
Serena did it
Navratilova did it
Novak did it
Fed would have done it 2 times back to back but Nadal who was at his peak stopped him, if Fed had the luxury of playing geriatric nadal of 2021 or injured nadal of 2015 then Fed would have done it twice
Holding 4 slams anyone can do...... no big deal
13 SLAMS ON ONE SURFACE..... NO ONE CAN EXCEPT RAFAEL NADAL ....
O
OhYes
Guest
So except those from midle ages, WTA, and "almost did it but someone prevent it bohooo", nobody else did it.
Good to know your filters
RaulRamirez
Legend
Yes, what Rafa has done on clay, in general, and at RG in particular, has been remarkable...but why the need to denigrate Novak's (possible) CYGS and what he already achieved (the NCYGS) -- neither of which has been achieved (talking men only) since Laver.
Now, if you asked me, I would guess that the NCYGS and maybe even the CYGS (whether achieved by Novak or not this year) will be achieved before someone will win a single major 13 or more times. But, this is apples, and maybe zucchini -- how does one compare them.
One more point. People concede that Rafa is "King of Clay", but often, in the next breath, do so in a way that diminishes his other accomplishments or seeks to marginalize clay. Now, if you (generally) want to say that he can't be the mythical GOAT because of not enough weeks at #1 or no WTF titles, I disagree, but that's somewhat reasonable. If you say he can't be GOAT due to "clay skew", I very much disagree, and find that less reasonable.
Now, if you asked me, I would guess that the NCYGS and maybe even the CYGS (whether achieved by Novak or not this year) will be achieved before someone will win a single major 13 or more times. But, this is apples, and maybe zucchini -- how does one compare them.
One more point. People concede that Rafa is "King of Clay", but often, in the next breath, do so in a way that diminishes his other accomplishments or seeks to marginalize clay. Now, if you (generally) want to say that he can't be the mythical GOAT because of not enough weeks at #1 or no WTF titles, I disagree, but that's somewhat reasonable. If you say he can't be GOAT due to "clay skew", I very much disagree, and find that less reasonable.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
But why? That's the ultimate achievement in tennis. To build a billion dollar brand!
Sunny014
Legend
So except those from midle ages, WTA, and "almost did it but someone prevent it bohooo", nobody else did it.
Good to know your filters
If so many people can do it or come close to it and only be stopped by more formidable opposition than what Novak is facing then surely it must not be that big a deal.
I donno whats the hype
Martina Navratilova once won 6 out of 7 slams played at a stretch, can we imagine anyone do that??? Is CYGS bigger than that ??
gadge
Hall of Fame
Lol no one ever said rafas record on clay especially at RG is mediocre. Everyone pretty much agrees no body dominated a single surface like he did, you’re just doing this to denigrate Novak’s potential CYGS to feel better.
If it were so easy why fed and Rafa struggled to do it?? They haven’t even come close to this
If it were so easy why fed and Rafa struggled to do it?? They haven’t even come close to this
Sunny014
Legend
If Fed had geriatric Rafa of 2021 or injured Rafa of 2016 skipping FO back in his time of 06-07 then Federer would have won 8 slams in a row, i.e 2 CYGS back to back, LOL
This CYGS is overrated by Nole fans
100% True, Nole has to seperate himself from the pack with 24-25 slams to be considered that.
gadge
Hall of Fame
Coulda shoulda woulda
and Rafa got his ass kicked by a 37 year old fed when he was in his early 30s
Sunny014
Legend
Talk of Clay.
How comes Rafa dominated 16 years on it ?
3 generation of athletes came and failed.
Federer was the best clay courter from his gen and Rafa stole 4 slams on clay in Federer's peak
Djokovic was the best clay courter from his gen (excluding Rafa of course) and Rafa stole 5 slams on clay in Novak's Peak
Thiem was/is the best clay courter from his gen and Rafa stole 4 slams on clay in Thiem's Peak
itrium84
Hall of Fame
I prefer Novak domination over entire tennis field for 10+ years over Rafa's domination over clay tennis solely for 15 years. Novak is tennis GOAT, Rafa is clay GOAT - we all knew that before this thread.
gadge
Hall of Fame
For the love of god, no one not even a single person challenges rafas clay court dominance but it’s not an argument for GOAT status
Sunny014
Legend
Novak's master who has beaten him at the AO, USO and on Clay
In his own peak Novak was Stan's bunny
O
OhYes
Guest
You really compare 1960's with 2020's ? You really ccompare WTA with ATP ?
You must be desperate then. And it's amusing to watch.
How about compare it with relevant thing - ATP from 1980's till now. And don't give me could've, should've examples cause it can go both ways
O
OhYes
Guest
Yeah once gassed, once injured. Stan rules thoughNovak's master who has beaten him at the AO, USO and on Clay
In his own peak Novak was Stan's bunny
))Rafa is clay god. That is established for ever. There is no comparable case
in tennis for that
However , being so good at clay doesn't mean you are the best tennis player.CYGS requires you to master all surfaces and keep winning everything. It is a great challenge to do so.
Again 13 slams vs CYGS is not even a comparison. But 21 grand slams including CYGS trump 20 with 13 at clay
in tennis for that
However , being so good at clay doesn't mean you are the best tennis player.CYGS requires you to master all surfaces and keep winning everything. It is a great challenge to do so.
Again 13 slams vs CYGS is not even a comparison. But 21 grand slams including CYGS trump 20 with 13 at clay
D
Deleted member 748597
Guest
Murray and 2015 Federer weren't mugs.
killerboss
Professional
Then how do you explain 4-3 2-1? In fact any current gen player winning 4 slams at same event would be hyped up as amazing and the next big thing by tennis experts and posters on here.
Sunny014
Legend
Murray in the FO final is mug level compared to Nadal and Lendl who stopped Fed (twice) and Mcenroe from winning all slams in those years
Anyway, 2015-2016 was still a good run, the 2021 one is a shame and bogus.
Texas Tennis Fan
Professional
Nadal is a great clay court player but has not won Wimbledon for more than 10 years, the AO since 2009, and has never won the YE championships. He also has few people who can challenge him on clay because there are no strong players on clay other than Djokovic and a younger Federer.
Want impressive? How about Djokovic having won 8 of the last 12 slams with the 4 losses including one injury (2019 USO), one DQ (imagine if that ball had hit her leg instead of her throat; 2020 USO), one loss to Thiem in a SF hurricane (2019 FO), and one loss to a rested Nadal in 2021 FO when the season was compressed and Djokovic was very tired). Not saying those losses may not have remained losses, but that record is pretty amazing.
Also, Nadal is only 11 months younger than Djokovic, so the old Nadal argument is beyond silly.
Want impressive? How about Djokovic having won 8 of the last 12 slams with the 4 losses including one injury (2019 USO), one DQ (imagine if that ball had hit her leg instead of her throat; 2020 USO), one loss to Thiem in a SF hurricane (2019 FO), and one loss to a rested Nadal in 2021 FO when the season was compressed and Djokovic was very tired). Not saying those losses may not have remained losses, but that record is pretty amazing.
Also, Nadal is only 11 months younger than Djokovic, so the old Nadal argument is beyond silly.
itrium84
Hall of Fame
And became GOAT despite those loses. Yeah, even GOATs lose matches. It's an uphill battle, filled with loss, downfalls and doubt. Ask ex-GOAT Federer, he will confirm.Novak's master who has beaten him at the AO, USO and on Clay
In his own peak Novak was Stan's bunny
itrium84
Hall of Fame
2015-16, the "good run", was BOAT period in whole tennis history. Previously unseen domination of one player. So yeah, it really was a pretty good run.
Now that’s worth discussing for once. However, this doesn’t mean the records aren’t what really counts of course, and you said it yourself: They don't have the impact that they SHOULD have. So what do you want to say, you recognize statistics as well, as everyone should.
Sunny014
Legend
When your wins are vs 34-35 yr old Fed and vs Moorey then you are no BOAT/SHIP, you are just one of the normal guys having an amazing season, nothing more.
People have had better seasons.
Sunny014
Legend
SinneGOAT
Hall of Fame
Lmaooooo “At the French Open” forgot that the French isn’t the only tournament?Nadal at the French Open has dominated 3 different Generation of Athletes "in their peak"
Generation 1 : Roger Federer and his Generation were at their peak in 2004-2009, Nadal won 4 FOs in this era.
Generation 2 : Novak Djokovic and his Generation were at their peak in 2010-2015, Nadal won 5 FOs in this era.
Generation 3 : Dominic Thiem and his Generation were at their peak in 2017-2021, Nadal won 4 FOs in this era.
No athlete ever has dominated 3 successive generations in their peak with such impunity as Nadal has.
This is the ultimate achievement in Tennis, not CYGS IMO.
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
I don't think he's all ATG, but I think in any other era, he would have at least one Slam, and probably more than Roddick.
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