De Facto Finals - Slam SF matchups that were the "true" title fight

eldanger25

Hall of Fame
To me, there are certain instances in Open Era history where a slam semifinal matchup was really the "de facto" final. I limit this to semifinal encounters rather than earlier because making it out of one's quarter of the draw is a triumph in and of itself, and shouldn't really be devalued to that degree.

My feeling is that for a de facto final to exist, you need (1) both semifinalists to have had substantial, recent success at the event (and possibly on tour generally); (2) a clear gap at the event between the two semifinalists and the player who emerged from the other side of the draw in the finals; and (3) a clear gap in quality between the "de facto" final and the actual final.

The paradigmatic recent example of this is of course RG 2013 between Nadal and Djokovic: it has all the ingredients of the above - two men with great recent success at the event; a first-time GS finalist on the other side in David Ferrer; and a lopsided difference in quality between the two matches.

Here are a few other candidates, in my opinion:

2005 Australian Open, Safin d. Federer

This may be a bit more controversial, but I think it holds - Federer was the defending champ; Safin was a 2x finalist; this was a rematch of their title fight encounter the year prior; Hewitt had had little success at the event beforehand; and Safin beat up on Hewitt far more convincingly than he did Federer.

1984 United States Open, McEnroe d. Connors

Also a bit more controversial, but I think it makes it over the line - Connors and McEnroe had between them won the last 6 Open titles - Connors '78, '82-'83, McEnroe '79-'81 - as well as 7 of the last 8 and 8 of the last 10. In fact, one or the other had appeared in every Open final since 1974 before this matchup. And although Ivan Lendl had made the two prior Open finals, he had not won the event yet, and had just won his first GS event at RG a few months earlier as a result of Mac's implosion. Finally, the 5 set corker between Connors and Mac way overshadowed Mac's dominant straight setter over Lendl in the final.

(Lendl would of course have his revenge on both at the Open the following year)

Without disrespecting Lendl, I do think this was the de facto final that year, particularly given the history at the event Mac and Connors had, as well as how close that match was relative to the final.

1998 United States Open, Rafter d. Sampras

Here's another good example - Rafter was defending champ; Sampras had won the event four prior times; Scud awaited the winner in his first slam final; and the five setter b/w Pistol and Rafter ultimately overshadowed Rafter's 4 set win in the final, which included him winning 12 of the last 14 games.


In contrast, I'm not sure you can count, say, Agassi v. Sampras at the 2000 AO SF as a de facto final, simply because Kafelnikov, the defending champ, was awaiting the winner - that seems to negate any claim of de facto final right off the bat.

I'm also not sure you can count Federer v. Nadal at RG 2005 as a de facto final, simply because neither had proven himself yet at the event when they met (it was the first final weekend appearance for both men). In other words, you've gotta look backwards from the date of the matchup, not use the benefit of hindsight to say - better career later = de facto final at the time.

Similarly, the CV gap between the Novak-Roger 2011 Australian Open SF and the Novak-Murray final doesn't make up for the fact that neither match was particularly close (even though the semi included a few tight sets). I think you could make a similar argument for their 2012 Wimbledon SF encounter (though that one is closer).

Any matches spring to mind to anyone else?

EDIT: Just to make it clear, one other condition here to my question is that the winner of the so-called "de facto" final has to go on and win the event outright as well. Thought that was self-evident, but apparently it isn't.
 
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eldanger25

Hall of Fame
2010 USO SF and 2011 USO SF

I think you can't call 2010 the de facto final because the winner of that SF match didn't go on to win the tournament. I suppose I neglected to include that as a factor here - thought it was self-evident.

And again, it's hard to call an SF matchup the de facto final when the fellow awaiting the winner is defending champ at the event (as was the case for Nadal 2011); plus the 2011 title fight was a rematch of the prior year's title fight.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
I think you can't call 2010 the de facto final because the winner of that SF match didn't go on to win the tournament. I suppose I neglected to include that as a factor here - thought it was self-evident.

And again, it's hard to call an SF matchup the de facto final when the fellow awaiting the winner is defending champ at the event (as was the case for Nadal 2011); plus the 2011 title fight was a rematch of the prior year's title fight.

If Federer not lost those multiple MP's , he would have gone on to win the title.

I forgot to add 2008 AO SF.
 

eldanger25

Hall of Fame
If Federer not lost those multiple MP's , he would have gone on to win the title.

I forgot to add 2008 AO SF.

I think the question of semifinal matches where the loser of that match would've beaten the eventual champion is a different question.

2008 AO SF is a better example - depends on how you feel about the fact that (1) Novak had little history at the event going into their match; and (2) the final between Djokovic and Tsonga was arguably closer.
 

Chico

Banned
Every Djokovic-Federer slam SF since 2008 to today. Yes every single one of them.
Djokovic-Nadal FO 2008.
Djokovic-Nadal FO 2013.
Djokovic-Murray AO 2012.

QF- Djokovic-Wawrinka AO 2014.
 
Every Djokovic-Federer slam SF since 2008 to today. Yes every single one of them.
Djokovic-Nadal FO 2008.
Djokovic-Nadal FO 2013.
Djokovic-Murray AO 2012.

QF- Djokovic-Wawrinka AO 2014.

sorry Chico but i dont agree on that one..........i do agree you should be a Mod!
 

BringBackSV

Hall of Fame
If Federer not lost those multiple MP's , he would have gone on to win the title.

I forgot to add 2008 AO SF.

How do you figure that Fed could have beaten Rafa in USO 10 or 11? I think Novak did Roger a favor by beating him those two times otherwise Rafa would have beaten Fed in the final of every major. At least with Novak stopping him, you can pretend that he would have been able to beat Rafa at the USO.
 

helloworld

Hall of Fame
How do you figure that Fed could have beaten Rafa in USO 10 or 11? I think Novak did Roger a favor by beating him those two times otherwise Rafa would have beaten Fed in the final of every major. At least with Novak stopping him, you can pretend that he would have been able to beat Rafa at the USO.

With Rafa's Godly 2010 USO serve, Fed would have been bagelled at least one set. real H2H between Roger and Rafa should have been much worse, but Roger was luckly that Rafa didn't make so many hard court finals in his early years.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
To me the true finals are meetings just like the one we are about to see.

At the moment Federer and Novak are playing by far better than anyone else. If they are at their best they will play the real "final". Everything else is an anti-climax.

If either Lopez or Simon beats the winner, we will all be shocked.
 

Bukmeikara

Legend
Here are a few other candidates, in my opinion:

2005 Australian Open, Safin d. Federer

I dont agree with this, the other SF was Roddick - Hewitt and both of them were former world number 1 and at the time they were number 2 and 3 + the fact the Hewitt was local.

The perfect example is Nadal - Djokovic RG 2013 and now Novak/Federer - SImon
 
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