Defeating a slice-master

[Sakkijarvi]

During my league match last night a slice-master destroyed the opponent one court over -- and the victim was undefeated coming into the match.

Player A was the victim. He is a retriever, gets to everything. He's basically "The Great Grigsby" from "Winning Ugly". Runs corner to corner, hates to be at the net. Seems to get to every shot. His serve is consistent but otherwise average. Two handed backhand. Likes to hit deep to you. Few unforced errors.

So this guy, 'A', ran into a buzzsaw in the form of a slice-master. Slice forehand. Slice backhand. Never came to the net either. He dropped the ball in short, then angled it to one or another corner. This guy, Player B, had 'A' running the whole time. Player A had problems with the low bounce, hitting many short balls into the net. He appeared to try and hit angled winners, but they often went out.

I didn't get the score but by appearances 'A' may have been the recipient of the dreaded double bagel.

I have to play mister slice, 'B', in a few weeks. Anyone that can give me some hints or pointers -- will be greatly appreciated. I am an all court player and can adapt my strategy as need...so thank you in advance for your feedback!

Sakki

 

[rogersampras]

Slice or loop it back to him, play it slow(yes slow) and safe and get enough time get back to position.
And when opportunity came(right placement/bounce/pace of your hitting zone), hit it hard and fast using your best shot-usually forehand.

 

[Sakkijarvi]

After some searching here I found mister 'B' fits this category:

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4 b. - Chop Shot-er Junk Ballers are found all over the Recreational and Club levels of tennis. These players have mastered the Chop Slice shot so well, they rarely bother hitting a flat or topspin shot. Chop Shot-ers can put their chopped slice deep, short, angled and lobbed. They are very good at “working the wind” with their chops and can run the 4.0 and below opponent into the ground with their accurate shooting.

Chop Shot-ers play very good “position” and rarely have to run for your silly attempts to blast them off the court. When you do succeed in running them, you sadly discover they are some of the quickest players afoot. They love it when you try to overpower them ... because they are masters at redirecting your power with their junk.

(A friend near the bottom of our ladder is 74 ... and proudly informs the 20- and 30-somethings on the ladder (after badly beating them) that the rest of us call him “Mr. Chop Shot.”)

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http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=58284

 

[IanRichardson]

you just have to be clever. It is highly unlikely you will be able to pick all of the slice balls up off your shoe laces and hit them back with power. Think about where you want the ball, and junk them right back. Trying to mindlessly pound the ball for a winner against a junk baller is a bad idea in my opinion.

 

[Geezer Guy]

I play 2 guys like this farily regularly. If I try and play their game, I lose. The only way I can win is to hit the ball HARD. On hard-hit balls, the will usually just block the ball back fairly flat. On the blocked-back ball I can usually hit either a winner or a ball that results in another blocked-back shot. Eventually, one of my shots will find open court.

However, if I DON'T give them pace they will put all sorts of slice and junk on the ball, and it's very hard to do anything with a shot like that.

If you're going to abandon your game and try to play their game - you're in trouble. You're better off making them play your game. However - you've got to be consistent. You can't make errors or you'll lose.

 

[DustinW]

Geezer Guy is right. If you try to beat him at his own game, you WILL lose. Just play your game and look for your opponent's weaknesses... they are there.

 

[Geezer Guy]

Hey - another Kansas City guy. Welcome aboard!

 

[Sakkijarvi]

Feedback = good

Keep pouring it on! I'm working the phones too for tips...and plan to hit with one of my 4.5 friends tomorrow night (I'm a '3.9' player at this point in a 4.0 league) -- so he can hit me these shots and give me a feel for it as a steady diet.

There's no way I'm going to try and beat someone at their own specialty. I'm really good at the net and am thinking along the lines of looking to hit with some pace to his backhand...then scoot in. I tend to sneak in once a player is committed to his stroke -- avoids a lot of lobs and I catch people still camped out in one corner.

Also, what I noticed was Player B didn't have to move his feet much -- he had the other guy running around madly. 'B' just serenely chopped right, then left, drop shot...hardly even seemed to work.

The ball stayed really low...but since it's Har Tru, it doesn't have the skip effect asphalt will. I am an experienced baseball middle infielder, can get LOW...head and hands down, sit down, all that.

I hope to get some pearls of wisdom so I can craft a good game plan.

Sakki

 

[rogersampras]

The most common mistake for club players is to hit the balls too hard but not consistant. That's what the "slice masters" wants, because he can usually cover the court stretching out using slices, waiting for you to make an error.

So, if you cannot hit through your opponent consistantly, just play it safe. Usually they do not have the weapon to attack you if you are not out of position. Wait for the perfect position to hit a winner. This is not playing on their terms, but just the opposite.

Another tip: Loop the ball higher and with less pace will make it hardar to hit a nice low bouncing slice.

 

[CrocodileRock]

I agree with Roger above. If you try to hit too hard, you will only make errors and beat yourself - then Player B won't have to. He'll just wait until you're finished, then claim the win.

I have three suggestions: Hit a lot of moonballs or lobs with topspin. It's impossible to effectively slice high balls. He will probably have to move back to hit it at waist level, and hit some short balls that you can put away.

Next, hit some drop shots. If he is allergic to the net, take advantage of it by making him camp out there. When he volleys weak, finish the point with a pass or a lob, or nail it right at him.

Finally, take the net yourself, if you are good at it, and use the angles to make him run until you can put away the weak shot.

All of these suggestions have one thing in common: Take him out of his comfort zone, and put him in his discomfort zone.

Good luck, and let us know what happens.

 

[Sakkijarvi]

<Good luck, and let us know what happens.>

Those are all great points, and appreciated! I will definitely come back to this thread and report after the match, which is in mid November.

 

[eman70]

moon balls with heavy topspin to the backhand.....

sneak in when you can (late) and put away his floaters.....

 

[SteveI]

moon balls with heavy topspin to the backhand.....

sneak in when you can (late) and put away his floaters.....

Bingo.... !!!! Great advice! Also serve and volley... but sneak in..

Steve

 

[RoddickAce]

Bingo.... !!!! Great advice! Also serve and volley... but sneak in..

Steve

I agree, it's funny how certain spins can cause so much trouble to other types of spin shots and how it counters the original strategy. So...what would be the strategy to counter the moonball? What would the "slice" guy do to stop the moonball tactic?

 

[matchmaker]

I agree, it's funny how certain spins can cause so much trouble to other types of spin shots and how it counters the original strategy. So...what would be the strategy to counter the moonball? What would the "slice" guy do to stop the moonball tactic?

I fully agree with the topspin aka moonball strategy, although you do not have to exaggerate the moonballs. Just deep and consistent topspin to the angles.

I had to play a slice master myself once. Funny thing is that my father had played him a few weeks before and he had destroyed my father. I applied the above tactics and I annihilated him. These slice masters like low, short balls and they cannot do anything with high and deep ones. In fact, who can make a point on such a ball.

You have to make the flaws in their game come out. Be patient and have him running from one side to the other with deep balls to the left and the right. When you have him pinned on the baseline work him with some angles and dropshots.

If you have a good serve I would not hesitate to come to the net if I were you. The serve is an unpredictable shot and the slice master will not be able to fully prepare on that, if you hit it well: quite hard, with kick, bouncing to shoulder height. If you do that you will get easy returns you can put away with volleys.

So, summary. Be patient on his service game. Deep topspin and consistency. On your service game you can be more agressive if your serve allows for that. Good luck and let us know how it went.

 

[eman70]

I agree, it's funny how certain spins can cause so much trouble to other types of spin shots and how it counters the original strategy. So...what would be the strategy to counter the moonball? What would the "slice" guy do to stop the moonball tactic?

beating a good "moonball" player is tough......however...

you need to take away the angles......keeping the ball low will help, keeping it in the middle will help (lessons the angle a moonballer can use).....

hitting the ball harder, if you can keep it in and out of the net will help....moonballers like to hit a "falling" ball and have to take a pretty big cut to generate the heavy topspin......

also....here's a big secret....instead of moving them side to side and hitting with consistent depth......hit the ball longer and shorter......makes it tough for a moonballer to be able to consistently hit the ball at the height he or she wants while it is falling.....if you can move the player slightly up and back....keep the ball low and in the middle, you can take away the moonball strokes.....

however, a real good player will be able to change and utilize several different tactics.......tennis is very much a thinking person's game

 

[Alexandros]

Take every opportunity to approach the net. Try to hit a deep sliced approach shot yourself, down the middle - you cut down his angles and he'll have a very difficult time passing you with a slice if you get into good position (be wary of the lob though, this is usually the way out for most junk ballers). Hit drop volleys and drop shots where you can, force him to come into the net himself as he doesn't like it.

 

[Shosho]

Yes it would be fun to watch your opponent try to slice a moon ball to his backhand....

 

[Sakkijarvi]

OT alert?

But are we drifting off-topic from chop slice guy with all this moonball mooning?

 

[BeHappy]

everyone else is wrong.

this guy can only slice so: he can't hit a low ball hard or else it will go long

soooo:

1)slice down the middle-easy put away

or

2)slice down the line to his worse wing- easy putaway

or best of all

3)angle, followed by slice approach, easy putaway, (he'll have to hit it on the run, lots of these guys can hit topspin shots if you give them time)

only use 1 and 2 if he can't hit topspin passing shots.

use 3 if he can

 

[CAM178]

#1: play your game.
#2: prey on his weakness.
#3: let his strong side get cold, and then hit to that once every several shots.
#4: run him. He likes to be in control, so take that control away. i.e. Does he like to have time to set up his slice? If so, take that time away. Or does he like the ball a certain height? Then don't give him that height.
#5. toy with him. That's what he LOVES about playing people: he is having fun with them. He beats them with junk, so laugh during points. Trust me: it's humorous for him. He knows his game is crap.
#6: serve and volley on big points. This will throw him off, and if all he has is slice, that takes away the pace.
#7: give him pace. Slice is about removing pace, so up your heat on your shots. Giving him pace removes the time he needs to set up the slice.

 

[Mick]

^^ good tips.

Also keep in mind that you can only beat the slice-master if you are an equal or better player than he is.

If he is a better player than you are then you are out of luck.

 

[desilvam]

But are we drifting off-topic from chop slice guy with all this moonball mooning?

yes

From the description of the slicers game, i would not be surprised if the slicer is able to run around and punish moonballs with a flat forehand on the rise.

 

[Mick]

yes

From the description of the slicers game, i would not be surprised if the slicer is able to run around and punish moonballs with a flat forehand on the rise.

i agree. i don't think someone who is good at slicing would have a problem handling moonballs.

 

[ananda]

there is already a thread going on about beating slicers. excellent details feedback. I too have to face a guy who slices on both hands.
I agree that slicing back to him is going to makethings difficult cos he will now have to scoop the ball up.
Giving him hard topspins or flat is no point cos he slices back and the ball dies in mid court.

1. Slice back so he has to lift /scrape the ball
2. Since the slice tends to float or go in net, therefore vary depth and pace which can force him into hitting out. Don't give him consistent pace or depth -- keep changing the rhythm.
3. Surely the backhand cannot be very good. slice him on his backhand.

 

[FedForGOAT]

If you give him too much topspin, he might very likely put too much backspin on his shot (your topspin is his bakspin) and hit a ball that will just bounce there in place and stay there for you to hit a winner.

 

[Cervantes]

Slicer

I find that most balls are difficult to slice return from up around the shoulders...it more or less gets blocked back with little or no spin. The trick is to hit extreme top so that our opponent can't reach it on the rise. In your case, if they aren't prone to come in, ideally you would hit hard top short so that by the time the ball reaches your opponent it's hard at their shoulders, forcing a weak return. Otherwise he would need to back off and let it drop at which point be behind the baseline. His return would then be defused.

I learned to hit the shoulder high kicker hard, 12 o'clock-6 o'clock, which creates tremendous underspin. But I've not seen it much from other players.

Try approaching with a slice or chip down the middle as this would force your opponent to hit up to you at the net.

Drop them so they need to approach diagonally from deep.

Kick your serve out wide then come in.

Pray for rain...


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro..."
Hunter S. Thompson

 

[gerikoh]

here's how i do it against a players who loves to slice and prolong rallies.

*practice your serve and make sure you hit a hard and fast one.
*make your first serves come in better than 75%.
*do a lot of net play and make sure you drop your shots as close to the net as possible when doing so.
*make sure you hit powerful and long shots as close to the opponent's baseline when doing rallies from the baseline.
*make your returns as flat and as hard as possible when he throws slices with you.
*be aggressive and do a lot of cross courts shots, let him be on the run.

 

[eman70]

you guys are missing the point with "moonballs" and perhaps that is too strong a word.....I don't care who you are talking about....it is very difficult to effectively slice a ball off the backhand side that is above your shoulder.....it produces a weak floater at best....more of a block.....

no you don't want to hit it so high that he can run around it but if you are good enough to put it in the backhand corner....even if he runs around it.....he'll be terribly out of position......

 

[Andres]

you guys are missing the point with "moonballs" and perhaps that is too strong a word.....I don't care who you are talking about....it is very difficult to effectively slice a ball off the backhand side that is above your shoulder.....it produces a weak floater at best....more of a block.....

No, it's not. It's difficult to hit TOPSPIN off a shoulder height backhand. Slice it would be the easier choice.

And since you can hit down, you can add extra spin, and the ball would bounce even lower.

 

[eman70]

No, it's not. It's difficult to hit TOPSPIN off a shoulder height backhand. Slice it would be the easier choice.

And since you can hit down, you can add extra spin, and the ball would bounce even lower.

I'm not planning on having a big arguement.......logic dictates that you are right.....however......a player who slices everything usually doesn't have a whole lot of strength which is why, particularily on the backhand that they don't hit topspin and/or flat......strength becomes a bigger issue with a ball above the shoulder......I would say that most people that like to slice and have a confident slice want to hit the ball "just" below shoulder level.....forcing them to hit the ball above their shoulder dictates that the racquet head has to be considerably above the wrist......this is not a strong position, particulily for a weaker player and while he/she may want to slice through the ball with power.......I think you will find that you end up with more of a block.......or a floater type of slice coming back that can be attacked......not to mention the fact that you may be able to wear down their arm a bit.....

as a player who likes to hit topspin off both sides I can assure you that unless you have the power to keep the ball above my shoulder all the way back to the fence.....that I'd love for you to hit balls that bounce above my shoulder........that gives me alll kinds of time to let the ball fall, hold it until the last second and hit any angle that I'd like.

certainly there are a variety of approaches to beating a "slicer" and certainly you need to be a better player....and yes if this guy is super strong and chooses only to hit slice and is able to carve up the high ball.......then you'll need to adopt a different strategy....however, I've found that most "choppers" really don't have other strokes and struggle with high balls....

As a player with a two handed backhand AND a one handed slice, I certainly can effectively slice a high (above my shoulder backhand) but back in the day I was also nationally ranked in the 18's, played #1 singles and #1 doubles on a nationally ranked NCAA II team etc.......if the chopper is as good as I used to be, and chooses only to chop, then you've probably got your hands full........

Furthermore....the way to play this game is to examine your opponent....determine what you feel his weaknesses may be, consider your strengths and then develop 2-3 different game plans that utilize this information......start with one plan...if it works....great....if not move to a different plan.....use that until it doesn't work anymore.....then perhaps go to a third plan.......and don't be afraid to go back to an earlier strategy that didn't work then.......it may work later in the match due to your opponent being tired, arm being wore down....not having the same "feel" they had earlier or you even hitting stronger or moving better........it's also important to mix up several of your "plans" from time to time.....you don't want to become predictable.....the key is to go into a match with several different ideas of how you can beat your opponent....and be ready to adapt "on-the-fly".......you must make adjustments throughout a match unless you are grossly over or under matched.........

 

[jaZZirat]

play at half court it will shorten the distance comming forward and eliminate the gap for his drops.

if he steps inside the baseline hit directly at his shoe laces

if he is behind the baseline use the topspin lob

you already know what his best shot is come to the net on every backhand. make a mental note of his tendacies and habits and exploit

every drop slice you get to tap back just over the net make it a habit that he will pick up on when he adjusts and comes forward then blast deep or at his laces

make sure you are mentally prepared with at least 6 or 7 different returns

 

[kevhen]

Hit up to clear the net but hit the ball at a slow pace so the slicer doesn't have anything to work with. Be ready to move forward against short slice, attack the net if you can since his passing shots won't be that fast. Don't go for angles on groundstrokes just use angles on finishing vollies. Relax get alot of balls back and don't try to hit hard but still hit up so you clear the net against those low slices. Don't get frustrated but keep working at understanding how to deal with sliced incoming balls.

 

[callitout]

Assuming you are not an "A" player, its going to be hard to simply come in off his low slice and punish him. A better play with low slice is to generate angle and wait for him to give you a higher ball once youve got him on the run then drive it (often behind this type of player).

I do agree that the reason you see this work so well at the club and not in most competitve play is that you can take the slice and approach off it and be in an offensive position. But at the "B" level your weak approach off his low ball will have you watching his passing shots and lobs go by for winners.

 

[counterpunchingrules]

if youre not a 4.5 or better and don't posess the adequate topspin needed to punish these pathetic bottom feeders of tennis, then make sure you NEVER hit angles. even your approach shots (and yes, coming to the net is a good idea), make sure you hit EVERYTHING down the middle. why?


take his angles away and see how happy he gets about that. he LIVES for when you pull him out wide so he can chase it down, and return it with an equally impressive angle, generally one to put you in trouble. start feeding him over and over down the middle, nice and deep, occasionally with a short ball (still in the middle, this is key) and watch how he starts making unforced errors. wont take many of those for the slicer to rethink his whole game, which is based on YOU not HIM making those errors. he will be begin to panic, deviate, and you can smile and know it's only a matter of time now


also, like many have already stated, the slicer and dicer are established masters of the lob. not pulling him off the court with your approach shot will not put him in auto mode, and he may try some riskier passing shots, all of which are difficult if hes standing in the middle of the court. their lobs are excellent, so take that away from them. dont make them feel on the defensive so they dont use it.
hope this helps

 

[fridrix]

I play 2 guys like this farily regularly. If I try and play their game, I lose. The only way I can win is to hit the ball HARD. On hard-hit balls, the will usually just block the ball back fairly flat. On the blocked-back ball I can usually hit either a winner or a ball that results in another blocked-back shot. Eventually, one of my shots will find open court.

However, if I DON'T give them pace they will put all sorts of slice and junk on the ball, and it's very hard to do anything with a shot like that.

That is exactly what I'd recommend, esp. if they are playing with a big snowshoe type racquet, which can't handle too much pace. Also, keeping it right down the middle will reduce their angles a bit. But when scooping up those low balls sometimes it's better to go for a softer, sharply angled topspin shot.

 

[fridrix]

Hit a lot of moonballs or lobs with topspin. It's impossible to effectively slice high balls. He will probably have to move back to hit it at waist level, and hit some short balls that you can put away.

I like this idea.

 

[smoothtennis]

There's no way I'm going to try and beat someone at their own specialty. I'm really good at the net and am thinking along the lines of looking to hit with some pace to his backhand...then scoot in. I tend to sneak in once a player is committed to his stroke -- avoids a lot of lobs and I catch people still camped out in one corner.

You have to be really careful here with this strategy. I played a VERY good chop-slice master recently in a tournament, and was everything you described, and lefty to boot. I have good strokes and accuracy, so I employed the 'hit with some pace to his backhand, and scoot in' strategy initally. He killed that. He took my pace, and choped it straight down the line with accuracy, hitting quite a few outright winners right off the bat.

I figured out he was 'setting up' on me. So I then decided to start MOVING him before I tried anything. This was the key that unlocked his game.

Once I had him on the move, those deadly accurate chops ceased for the most part. If I could get him to take three or four steps to a ball, then I would step into the court, and start pressuring him.

Also, definately approach down the middle most of the time and don't close too close to net on the first volley!

It took me an entire set up to 5-5, to finally figure this out - first time I had played a good chop-master. But my real strategy was simple. You KNOW you can't go making any errors too much right? I was seeking the balance that would allow me to add 'just enough' pace to the ball, to get him a 'little' off balance side to side. The rest fell into place once I found that combination of pace and safety. It was not my A-pace shot, but it was not my C-paced shot either. It was hard work!

 

[Sakkijarvi]

Smooth on the money

You have to be really careful here with this strategy. I played a VERY good chop-slice master recently in a tournament, and was everything you described, and lefty to boot. I have good strokes and accuracy, so I employed the 'hit with some pace to his backhand, and scoot in' strategy initally. He killed that. He took my pace, and choped it straight down the line with accuracy, hitting quite a few outright winners right off the bat.

I figured out he was 'setting up' on me. So I then decided to start MOVING him before I tried anything. This was the key that unlocked his game.

Once I had him on the move, those deadly accurate chops ceased for the most part. If I could get him to take three or four steps to a ball, then I would step into the court, and start pressuring him.

Also, definately approach down the middle most of the time and don't close too close to net on the first volley!

It took me an entire set up to 5-5, to finally figure this out - first time I had played a good chop-master. But my real strategy was simple. You KNOW you can't go making any errors too much right? I was seeking the balance that would allow me to add 'just enough' pace to the ball, to get him a 'little' off balance side to side. The rest fell into place once I found that combination of pace and safety. It was not my A-pace shot, but it was not my C-paced shot either. It was hard work!

Smooth,

Your post landed right on the mark for my match last night. I played a pickup match with one of my vendors, under the lights in Wilton, CT. He's a 4.5, very experienced. I'm newly minted 4.0 league member with a .500 record. He hits a chop slice, is a junkballer, if you can call him that at that level. Comes to the net behind slice approach shots, great volleyer -- amazing touch at the net -- can take a ball from below the level of the net cord and drop shot it parallel to the net. Hits overheads with slice, cross court.

I started out hot, pounding the serve, holding twice in a row. Breaking him, going up 3-1. Hitting DEEP to his backhand put him on the defensive. So then I forget he's a 4.5, play a little more conservatively -- he steps it up...passes me down the line when I come to the net. Drop shots me when I stay back. Coming in just didn't work because my approach shots were no longer deep enough -- so he could just use his high percentage slice forehand to pass me. Set ends 6-4, him.

We start the second set and I come out fired up, go up 2-1. We battle to 3-3, then his slice just starts wearing me down, keeping me on the defensive -- he started hitting it deeper, would skip on the hard court. Once that pinned me back, drop shot time. When I rushed in, passing shots down the line. Set ends 6-3.

It was great to have a chance to face the chop slice from such a good player, get a feel for the stroke. I felt like I was literally 'digging it out' all night. He didn't make unforced errors, maybe three double faults. When I would spin in a second serve, like a higher level player should, he was all over it.

The only time I had a clear advantage was when he decided to go bash-for-bash, power contest. I could out-bash him every time, I could handle his topspin, pace forehand with no problem.

Sakki

 

[smoothtennis]

Smooth,

Your post landed right on the mark for my match last night. I played a pickup match with one of my vendors, under the lights in Wilton, CT. He's a 4.5, very experienced. I'm newly minted 4.0 league member with a .500 record. He hits a chop slice, is a junkballer, if you can call him that at that level. Comes to the net behind slice approach shots, great volleyer -- amazing touch at the net -- can take a ball from below the level of the net cord and drop shot it parallel to the net. Hits overheads with slice, cross court.

I started out hot, pounding the serve, holding twice in a row. Breaking him, going up 3-1. Hitting DEEP to his backhand put him on the defensive. So then I forget he's a 4.5, play a little more conservatively -- he steps it up...passes me down the line when I come to the net. Drop shots me when I stay back. Coming in just didn't work because my approach shots were no longer deep enough -- so he could just use his high percentage slice forehand to pass me. Set ends 6-4, him.

We start the second set and I come out fired up, go up 2-1. We battle to 3-3, then his slice just starts wearing me down, keeping me on the defensive -- he started hitting it deeper, would skip on the hard court. Once that pinned me back, drop shot time. When I rushed in, passing shots down the line. Set ends 6-3.

It was great to have a chance to face the chop slice from such a good player, get a feel for the stroke. I felt like I was literally 'digging it out' all night. He didn't make unforced errors, maybe three double faults. When I would spin in a second serve, like a higher level player should, he was all over it.

The only time I had a clear advantage was when he decided to go bash-for-bash, power contest. I could out-bash him every time, I could handle his topspin, pace forehand with no problem.

Sakki

Yeah, now thats a tougher opponent than I had. The guy I played could not dictate like that or make me pay if I got casual. Hey, a good 4.5 is good you know? They should be able to do that stuff. One key thing you mentioned was how he could draw you in and then pass you with those slices. It certainly helps to be able to rush in, gain balance, and hit back a touch drop shot, or deep soft slice to the center of the court. He shouldn't be able to use that slice off those shots as effectively. Also, he loved when you were too close to the net I know. That gives huge lanes to pass with.

I know I scream at my hitting partner in matches, when he closes too close to the net off a mediocre approach. I yell 'too close' and then rip it down one of the glaring lanes he has left me. He used to blame me or such passes, but I have convinced him that it is HIM ,that causes this, not me.

So consider this. When he drop shots you, before you take off, you gotta know two things. 1. He wants you to feed that ball back into the court around no mans land so he can gain court position advantage and 2. He very much wants you stuck right there on the net guessing which way he is going because the pass is a no brainer to anybody with any accuracy if you are too close.

Whatever shot you hit back, take a small hop or two back and shrink his passing angles as you hold your net position.

 

[Gasquetrules]

Interesting thread...

This is a very interesting threa.

No two junkmasters or slicers are the same. So you really have to tailor your tactics to your oppoent.

My main competition on our local tennis ladder is quite the puzzle. He has a very consitent two-handed backhand that he can hit great crosscourt angles with if you give him anything short up the line. He hits a very good sliced forehand, which always seems to land within a foot of the corner on my one-handed backhand (which is a pretty good shot) and then he quickly follows the slice into the net. He has hands like Johnny Mac and almost never makes an unforced error on the volley. So in this situation the odds favor my opponent, kind of like Lendl trying to pass Mac with the perfect backhand up the line off Mac's very deep approach. Like Mac, my opponents wins most of these points.

And whenever I try to take one of his low-sliced mid-court balls and slice it back crosscourt into his two-hander, he can hit the pass or throw up a lob that never misses.

This guy doesn't look that good at first notice, but he's very tough to beat. I'm presently two out of four against him.

I've found the best tactic is to hit hard and deep -- on the serve, on the return, in the rallies -- and never give him a chance to take control of the rally. He doesn't hit with anything more than medium pace and likes to pull you down to that level. But once you give him a ball that's mid-court he jumps on it, slices it into the corner and closes tight on the net. Instant pressure.

If I'm moving and playing well I can just blow him off the court with pace and depth... but at my level, it's easy to beat yourself if you aren't really on. And there is always the pressure of knowing he doesn't make unforced errors and that anything short and he immediately attacks and puts the pressure on you.

Serve and volley works if you are serving very well and punching away the volleys. But since he has a good two-handed backhand, he really doesn't have a weak side to serve against, and it's hard to consistently hit the jammer.

The last time we played I noticed that the high-deep-off-pace shots followed by a quick sprint to the net worked well against him, because he couldn't use the pace of my shot to pass me. Rain cut this match short before it got started good, but this might be a good tactic.

This guy does everything well, and it seems that the best way to beat him is to raise the level of play beyond what he can handle... if one can do that and not make errors.

 

[Sakkijarvi]

Gasq,

Your guy sounds like my 4.5 guy, that I played Thursday night. When I was cooking, I pounded to his b-hand with topspin and pace, and he couldn't play with me. When I served HARD (prolly a little over 100 mph) into his body, again, he had problems. As long as I hit deep, right near the baseline, I won points. And those points looked pretty EASY to win.

The problem was that I backed off a bit, each time I took a lead. Then he was back in his element, slicing, amazing drop shots, volleying, and slice winners down the line. Few errors, in fact almost all of his errors were forced, not un-forced.

 

[adl700]

Played a slicer last week

I've been in the same situation. Last year my opponant killed me, because I kept trying to force my shots and he just kept putting them back with lots of spin. He was and still is very quick and can hit angles off both wings.

Last week when we played, I first just kept putting the ball back deep in the middle with good topspin, I aimed for his body. I then began working him forward and backward, side to side, just enough that he had to move, didn't matter how much, but made him move. Like your friends opponant, my guy didn't like the net, so when I hit short, I kept it around the service line, this gave me time to come in and take the volley or overhead. I also, dragged every point to the max. As quick as he is, his endurance sucks! I have found most slicers don't have the endurance for long points when they have to move. I won 4 and 2.

My advice after all of this, 1) do what many others have said, nice deep topspin shots 2) make them move, it doesn't have to be a lot just moving 3) drag each point out with the mindset of 3 hour match 4) THIS ONE IS THE HARDEST FOR ME; I can play smart, but playing with patience is another thing....BE PATIENT.

 

[zacinnc78]

find ur way to the net to put away those nice floating slices(theyre usually not fast)

 

[JavierLW]

everyone else is wrong.

this guy can only slice so: he can't hit a low ball hard or else it will go long

soooo:

1)slice down the middle-easy put away

or

2)slice down the line to his worse wing- easy putaway

or best of all

3)angle, followed by slice approach, easy putaway, (he'll have to hit it on the run, lots of these guys can hit topspin shots if you give them time)

only use 1 and 2 if he can't hit topspin passing shots.

use 3 if he can

I agree. It's hard to hit slice off of balls that already have slice on them. It's also hard to effectively hit slice off of low balls with very little pace.

Going to the net is probally very important as well. Anytime you are at the net, it's actually usually a godsend when you get the guy who can only slice from even one wing. (because those balls tend to sit up)

The retriever doesnt like being at the net so he probally wasnt able to take advantage of any of that.

 

[Sakkijarvi]

Thanks for the latest post, good to see this thread still gathering some replies! Lots of valuable info obtained, which I appreciate GREATLY.

With this material I'll craft an approach -- win or lose, I like to have a plan going in. I have two league matches this week, one tonight, and a doubles match Wednesday night -- lots of tennis coming.

Sakki

 

[jjrl2004]

did you play him yet? It's been a month =)

 

[HowardH]

I've been having this same issue.

I hit with topspin and like to baseline but I can come to the net also. I just can't beat the slicers. I can hang with 3.5 and 4.0 baseliners, my last two wins on the 3.5, 4.0 ladder were against 4.0's. I played a 3.5 slice master yesterday, don't get me wrong, his forehand slices were some beautiful shots and he could drop shot his forehand just over the net fromt the baseline. Anyway he domolished me. He want's to learn topspin but why should he?

He's beating everyone and is always on the top of the ladder and wins many tournaments with his slice and drop shot game. Very good finesse player.

 

[MariaS]

Sometimes a slicer can only slice. That in itself tells you a lot.
Be patient and don't expect to win games easily.
Hit all different type shots looking to see exactly which shots he has a hard time returning.

Then play him and win.

 

[HoVa]

Beating a slicers AND moonballers takes being good at the BASICS:

1) High % of serves.
2) hitting to the last 1/3 depth of the court
3) good mechanics that will let you hit winners off of balls that have no pace.
4) volleying skills
5) consistency on groundstrokes with no unforced errors.
6) fitness (its going to be a grind)


Most 4.0 and unders have problems with at least 4 of these. Thats why its so difficult to beat junkballers. They will beat you on CONSISTENCY alone.

So what do you do?

1) consistency (hardest of all- can you sustain 10+ stroke rallys?)
2) hitting with depth
3) attacking when given the RIGHT chance.