Did the Williams sisters create an African American tennis hype?

D

dominikk1985

Legend
There seems to be a pretty big tennis boom among African American girls. Actually almost all good younger American female players under 25 are black:

-stephens (25)

-keys (23)

-townsend (22)

-gauff (14 current junior number 1)

Can this solely be attributed to the success of the Williams sisters?
 
Top 10 US as of 27 Aug:

3 0 [USA] Sloane Stephens 25 5482 18
14 0 [USA] Madison Keys 23 3212 17
16 0 [USA] Venus Williams 38 2841 14
25 ▽2 [USA] Coco Vandeweghe 26 1878 18
26 0 [USA] Serena Williams 36 1676 10
37 ▽1 [USA] Danielle Collins 24 1367 28
65 0 [USA] Sofia Kenin 19 878 28
66 0 [USA] Jennifer Brady 23 877 26
73 0 [USA] Taylor Townsend 22 845 24
75 △1 [USA] Alison Riske 28 835 26
78 △1 [USA] Sachia Vickery 23 823 30
92 △2 [USA] Bernarda Pera 23 714 28
97 0 [USA] Christina Mchale 26 690 29

At and Under 25:

3 0 [USA] Sloane Stephens 25 5482 18
14 0 [USA] Madison Keys 23 3212 17
37 ▽1 [USA] Danielle Collins 24 1367 28
65 0 [USA] Sofia Kenin 19 878 28
66 0 [USA] Jennifer Brady 23 877 26
73 0 [USA] Taylor Townsend 22 845 24
78 △1 [USA] Sachia Vickery 23 823 30
92 △2 [USA] Bernarda Pera 23 714 28

"Actually almost all good younger American female players under 25 are black:"

You arr wrong by a factor of 100%. 4 out of 8 are not.
 
I would say yes. In a way its pretty natural. And actually ladies us tennis in general. I mean the men kinda suck. But the us ladies tennis are pretty healthy. Probably the deepest in talent than any other country except the Czechs who are just insane.
 
dominikk1985 said:
There seems to be a pretty big tennis boom among African American girls. Actually almost all good younger American female players under 25 are black:

-stephens (25)

-keys (23)

-townsend (22)

-gauff (14 current junior number 1)

Can this solely be attributed to the success of the Williams sisters?
Click to expand...

Solely? No of course not, unless you know for a fact that all of them only started playing because of the WIlliams sisters.

By the way, Naomi Osaka could also be placed in this list of players. Yes she technically is Japanese, but she grew up almost solely in the US as a half-black player.
 
chicagodude said:
Solely? No of course not, unless you know for a fact that all of them only started playing because of the WIlliams sisters.

By the way, Naomi Osaka could also be placed in this list of players. Yes she technically is Japanese, but she grew up almost solely in the US as a half-black player.
Click to expand...

Good point. She said in her interview yesterday that she loves Serena.
 
augustobt said:
I can't believe Taylor Townsend is ranked in the top 100. WTA is a joke, she's at least (AT LEAST) 20kg overweight. No one in their ****ing sane mind would, without knowing, state that she's a professional ATHLETE.
Click to expand...

Ehm, yes she is overweoight, but that doesn't mean she doesn't deserve to be in the top-100. In fact, it's a testament to how good she actually is that she is that high despite being too heavy. Have you seen her play recently? She is actually a very good player and quite a good mover. Of course she would be much higher ranked if she were about 15-20 lbs lighter, but she's still a better player technically and tactically than many who are ranked above her.

Besides, there a lot of professional NFL athletes who you'd never think to be professional athletes either if you'd meet them in real-life, as many of them would be considered obese.
 
But who has inspired Afro-American male players? Arthur Ash or James Blake? Or also Serena? That is the question.
 
dominikk1985 said:
There seems to be a pretty big tennis boom among African American girls. Actually almost all good younger American female players under 25 are black:

-stephens (25)

-keys (23)

-townsend (22)

-gauff (14 current junior number 1)

Can this solely be attributed to the success of the Williams sisters?
Click to expand...
And we can add African Asian with Osaka.
 
chicagodude said:
Besides, there a lot of professional NFL athletes who you'd never think to be professional athletes either if you'd meet them in real-life, as many of them would be considered obese.
Click to expand...
That's a totally different thing! You're comparing apples, oranges and onions here.


chicagodude said:
Ehm, yes she is overweoight, but that doesn't mean she doesn't deserve to be in the top-100. In fact, it's a testament to how good she actually is that she is that high despite being too heavy. Have you seen her play recently? She is actually a very good player and quite a good mover. Of course she would be much higher ranked if she were about 15-20 lbs lighter, but she's still a better player technically and tactically than many who are ranked above her.
Click to expand...

I don't see that way. You're talking 15-20lbs... I'm talking 20 KILOS. How many ATP pros, ranked inside the top 100, are 15lbs/7kgs overweight? None, because they would be crushed, no matter how good they are. Do you believe that Nadal or Federer would be ranked within the top 100 with 7kg of extra weight?
That's what you expect on high level professional tennis, no room for such abnormalities. It's one thing to be 20kgs overweight and own your club's league, other thing is to be inside the World's Top 100. Doesn't matter how good you are, this is just plain wrong. Taylor Townsend almost weights the same as Grigor Dimitrov despite being 15cm smaller! That's INSANE.
 
augustobt said:
That's a totally different thing! You're comparing apples, oranges and onions here.
Click to expand...

I know that, but the way your post was written seemed to imply that being (quite a bit) overweight makes it impossible to be a top athlete. Obviously Townsend is proving that she can, at least to some extent.


I don't see that way. You're talking 15-20lbs... I'm talking 20 KILOS. How many ATP pros, ranked inside the top 100, are 15lbs/7kgs overweight? None, because they would be crushed, no matter how good they are. Do you believe that Nadal or Federer would be ranked within the top 100 with 7kg of extra weight?
That's what you expect on high level professional tennis, no room for such abnormalities. It's one thing to be 20kgs overweight and own your club's league, other thing is to be inside the World's Top 100. Doesn't matter how good you are, this is just plain wrong. Taylor Townsend almost weights the same as Grigor Dimitrov despite being 15cm smaller! That's INSANE.
Click to expand...

I'd argue that Sock is at least 7 kg too heavy. And yes, Federer or any of the top-10 players would easily be in top-100 with even 10 kg more no their bodies, I have no doubt about that.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that Townsend is way too heavy, I just think it's not a testament to how weak the WTA is, but more of how talented she is and how sadly underachieving she will remain unless losing a significant amount. EVen with 15-20 lbs less (instead of 20kg) she would probably already be able to get in the top 50.

Frankly I am baffled by the fact that she still is so much overweight (used to be more) despite playing so much. I know for some women genetically it's extremely hard to get rid of some natural chubbiness, but you'd expect her to at least get close to say a Shelby Rogers type physique.
 
Last edited:
chicagodude said:
I know that, but the way your post was written seemed to imply that being (quite a bit) overweight makes it impossible to be a top athlete. Obviously Townsend is proving that she can, at least to some extent.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I realized that after I reading what I've wrote.



chicagodude said:
I'd argue that Sock is at least 7 kg too heavy. And yes, Federer or any of the top-10 players would easily be in top-100 with even 10 kg more no their bodies, I have no doubt about that.
Click to expand...
But isn't Sock clearly underperforming this year? How many times he got past the 1R/2R? Fed with extra 10kg on his belly would be happy to win a couple of rounds in challenger events...

chicagodude said:
Don't get me wrong, I agree that Townsend is way too heavy, I just think it's not a testament to how weak the WTA is, but more of how talented she is and how sadly underachieving she will remain unless losing a significant amount. EVen with 15-20 lbs less (instead of 20kg) she would probably already be able to get in the top 50.
Click to expand...
I think it's a bit of both. I mean, do you want anything to be a bigger of a joke than Marion Bartoli with probably the same 30lbs of overweight winning WIMBLEDON?
 
chicagodude said:
By the way, Naomi Osaka could also be placed in this list of players. Yes she technically is Japanese, but she grew up almost solely in the US as a half-black player.
Click to expand...

How did you come to the determination that she is half black?

She is half Hatian which is part of the same island the Dominican Republic in on, in the Caribbean.

So I'm not seeing the "half black" you are talking about.
Then again I don't like to focus on the color of a persons skin either.
 
chicagodude said:
Solely? No of course not, unless you know for a fact that all of them only started playing because of the WIlliams sisters.

By the way, Naomi Osaka could also be placed in this list of players. Yes she technically is Japanese, but she grew up almost solely in the US as a half-black player.
Click to expand...
I agree. I think the Williams sisters definitely inspires a lot of black girls (including Naomi Osaka) to start taking up the sport (where as in the past there was no such inspiration to generate interest in the sport). However, ultimately a player has to have the desire/drive and opportunity to be successful in tennis first. So you can’t just pin it on one thing. Plus, a lot of white American girls were no doubt also inspired by the Williams sisters because they grew up watching two great American champions. For some, race probably had nothing to do with it. But for others, it most likely was a factor.

Same thing happened in women’s gymnastics which at one point was an all white sport! 20 years ago, Dominique Dawes was really the only African American competing at a high level in that sport. But ever since Gabby Douglas won the Olympics in 2012, you see more and more African American girls successful at the top of that sport.
 
AM75 said:
What about caucasian American girls? Do S & V inspire only Afro-Americans?
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please stop.

i'm sure all this talk about AAs seem to ruffle the feathers of people like you, but there's a reason the focus is sometimes on diversity - and thats HISTORY!

our country and certainly tennis has a history of racial discrimination. so, when racial minorities, like the Williams sisters, become successful in the sport it garners attention and introspection.

if the historical roles were reversed, then the current focus (in mainstream media and pop culture on minorities) we often see now would also be reversed.

try and have some perspective...
 
cknobman said:
How did you come to the determination that she is half black?

She is half Hatian which is part of the same island the Dominican Republic in on, in the Caribbean.

So I'm not seeing the "half black" you are talking about.
Then again I don't like to focus on the color of a persons skin either.
Click to expand...
yea, we can tell you don't like to focus of skin color (ie you would like to try and ignore it and its implications), because your understanding seems quite limited.

Osaka grew up in the US, and trust me, she was seen as a woman of color. Africans and Caribbeans are black, perhaps not 'Black' but certainly black.
 
DRII said:
please stop.

i'm sure all this talk about AAs seem to ruffle the feathers of people like you, but there's a reason the focus is sometimes on diversity - and thats HISTORY!

our country and certainly tennis has a history of racial discrimination. so, when racial minorities, like the Williams sisters, become successful in the sport it garners attention and introspection.

if the historical roles were reversed, then the current focus (in mainstream media and pop culture on minorities) we often see now would also be reversed.

try and have some perspective...
Click to expand...

 
TennisLBC said:
Who preventing any American girls from being inspired the Williams Sisters?
Click to expand...

Generally people are inspired by people from their own race-if you ever look at black musicians picking their favourite artists it is Stevie Wonder, Whitney Houston, Marvin Gaye etc & conversely the white musicians favourite artists are Paul McCartney, Madonna, Bob Dylan etc.
 
I would say WTA tennis is more profitable for women than any other professional sport. Venus and Serena helped inspire young black girls, but the money also hep them to keep with playing tennis. The USTA provides a lot of support to minority players. Osaka on the other hand could have picked to be sponsored by USTA but she picked Japan. Japan provided her more funding.
 
MatsPhilander said:
Wonder how many Russian girls were/are inspired by Maria & Myskina?
Click to expand...

I'd say that a lot of American girls were inspired by Kournikova actually. She and Williams sisters were a great find for the IMG.

In Russia I think Maria is still a great inspiration for the generation of Kasatkina and younger. She and Kuznetsova also showed the way: if you have talent, leave Russia and train in a Western tennis academy.
 
cknobman said:
How did you come to the determination that she is half black?

She is half Hatian which is part of the same island the Dominican Republic in on, in the Caribbean.

So I'm not seeing the "half black" you are talking about.
Then again I don't like to focus on the color of a persons skin either.
Click to expand...
 
cknobman said:
How did you come to the determination that she is half black?

She is half Hatian which is part of the same island the Dominican Republic in on, in the Caribbean.

So I'm not seeing the "half black" you are talking about.
Then again I don't like to focus on the color of a persons skin either.
Click to expand...
I would suggest brushing up on your history a bit before making statements like these. Just a suggestion.
 
cknobman said:
How did you come to the determination that she is half black?

She is half Hatian which is part of the same island the Dominican Republic in on, in the Caribbean.

So I'm not seeing the "half black" you are talking about.
Then again I don't like to focus on the color of a persons skin either.
Click to expand...

Caribbean is a place. People there are from different races.
 
TennisLBC said:
Not needed. Upholding American Tennis is good enough.
Click to expand...

I don't see this notion of upholding American tennis. They play tennis and are good at it. Being Americans, they play in Fed Cup. I don't see where the upholding of a country comes from. Isn't an American janitor also upholding American industry?

That term means a lot and should be mostly used for people in the military where personal sacrifice is required.

On the flip side, women from other countries are also upholding American tennis, from Sharapova who is a money and job generator of her own to a foreign junior paying for training at Bollitierri.

We are also upholding American tennis by posting here and making an American company more prestigious with the quality of this forum.
 
sureshs said:
I don't see this notion of upholding American tennis. They play tennis and are good at it. Being Americans, they play in Fed Cup. I don't see where the upholding of a country comes from. Isn't an American janitor also upholding American industry?

That term means a lot and should be mostly used for people in the military where personal sacrifice is required.

On the flip side, women from other countries are also upholding American tennis, from Sharapova who is a money and job generator of her own to a foreign junior paying for training at Bollitierri.

We are also upholding American tennis by posting here and making an American company more prestigious with the quality of this forum.
Click to expand...
I wasn't digging that deep. But other than Sloan Stephens, no other American has a Slam in singles not name Williams since Roddick. And while I am far from being nationalistic, there is something to be said about what Serena and Venus has accomplished given the heap of scorn they receive here.
 
dominikk1985 said:
There seems to be a pretty big tennis boom among African American girls. Actually almost all good younger American female players under 25 are black:

-stephens (25)

-keys (23)

-townsend (22)

-gauff (14 current junior number 1)

Can this solely be attributed to the success of the Williams sisters?
Click to expand...

In general, the younger American women have Serena, Venus, Sloane to look up to.

I don't see a tennis boom among 7 foot tall American boys because of Isner.

And the notion that "almost all good younger American female players under 25 are black" is just wrong.
 
TennisLBC said:
I wasn't digging that deep. But other than Sloan Stephens, no other American has a Slam in singles not name Williams since Roddick. And while I am far from being nationalistic, there is something to be said about what Serena and Venus has accomplished given the heap of scorn they receive here.
Click to expand...

Roddick's retirement is an arbitrary point in time.

Lindsay Davenport has a 14-13 head to head over Venus.
 
70後 said:
In general, the younger American women have Serena, Venus, Sloane to look up to.

I don't see a tennis boom among 7 foot tall American boys because of Isner.

And the notion that "almost all good younger American female players under 25 are black" is just wrong.
Click to expand...

Yeah it is off by a factor of 2 as I pointed out
 
dominikk1985 said:
There seems to be a pretty big tennis boom among African American girls. Actually almost all good younger American female players under 25 are black:

-stephens (25)

-keys (23)

-townsend (22)

-gauff (14 current junior number 1)

Can this solely be attributed to the success of the Williams sisters?
Click to expand...
Besides Gauff, there's Whitney Osuigwe.
Gauff grew up in Atlanta, the city with the most tennis courts and local league tennis tournaments in the U.S. The ATL has a large back population of tennis players too just like NYC, Chicago and L.A., So, they were probably already in a tennis family or simpy a family that promoted playing a sport. I know Gauff is inspired by Venus.
It is not a boom at all when you consider Venus & Serena were in their primes before 2012. And you only have Gauff, Townsend, and Stephens as the result.
Keys could easily put other or biracial on her census. She would not be considered black in Latin or European countries. Ask any South American .
 
cknobman said:
How did you come to the determination that she is half black?

She is half Hatian which is part of the same island the Dominican Republic in on, in the Caribbean.

So I'm not seeing the "half black" you are talking about.
Then again I don't like to focus on the color of a persons skin either.
Click to expand...

lol.

She's refers to herself as black.

most people in Haiti and in the DR are in fact black
 
Claire Liu of the US is also quite talented. I don't know enough about her, but the way she plays resembles Djokovic more.

Serena is not the only model.

Some of their favourite players are men. Hampton's favourite was Fed when she was playing.
 
Probably an American thing I don't quite understand, but how can you call Madison Keys black? Or Tsonga or Obama for that matter. Don't you need to have dark skin?
 
Of course there are also other ok players but the players with slam winning potential (Sloane, Serena and keys) are all African American. I think it is a good thing for tennis to have more diversity so the sisters deserve some credit. Have there been any good black American players before williams? Rubin was kinda ok, but other than her I think it was a white only sport in the US. That has changed.
 
Stretchy Man said:
Probably an American thing I don't quite understand, but how can you call Madison Keys black? Or Tsonga or Obama for that matter. Don't you need to have dark skin?
Click to expand...

Where are you from? Black people come in various shades. Ever seen Lena Horne?

Plus all 3 of those people do have dark skin. Dark is a relative concept.
 
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