Djokovic (1) vs Wawrinka (3) - 2016 US Open final

[Bobby Jr]

Such an interesting match. One thing which played heavily on it was the fact that after Djokovic served first the set ended (with an odd-number of game) so Wawrinka served first to kick off the second set. I don't think that is talked about enough in tennis - how much of an advantage it can be once you get on a roll. For sets 2, 3 and 4 Wawrinka served first and kept his nose in front each time. The mental pressure when serving second is a different beast even for the top players imo - quite subtly, but still has an effect on the way they play imo.

 

[Meles]

I would be perfectly sure at AO, since during peak Federer times it happened on Rebound Ace which plays completely different to Plexicushion. Federer was GOAT on that surface, 07 was his highest level ever at any slam, I would like to see Stan try to topple him there during Federer's peak years. More than likely Stan doesn't win three straight times against Roger during that time.

Move the match to Plexicushion and it might be a different story. I don't think I've fully realized what a change that was. If the surface was fast like today's US Open, but merely lower bouncing I'd agree that Federer would beat Stan. I'll stop there as I generally not a huge fan of these comparisons

 

[Aussie Darcy]

A meme I love.

 

[cc0509]

You are wrong. It is 19:5. I am sure that Djokovic can be in better physical and mental condition than he was yesterday. Djokovic did not execute his tactics well enough, but the idea was good. Wawrinka needs to beat him 10 times in a row before it is reasonable to come to your conclusion.

Forget their overall h2h. What is their slam h2h since Wawrinka and his coach Magnus Norman hooked up? Wawrinka doesn't care as much about the other tournaments at his age. He's decided to focus on slams and once he's in a final, what's his record? He's a bad match-up for Djokovic, I'm sorry to tell you that. He's defeated Djokovic at the AO, FO and the USO in the past few years. If they meet in a slam these days it's a 50-50 thing and if it's a final, Wawrinka is the slight favorite.

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

That's OK. I was basically responding to Stan having a streak while greats like Rafa and Nole couldn't, and that is purely because they were beaten by peak Federer. We know how Stan struggles against Roger especially on fast surfaces, put him up against the best form of Roger and I am confident he suffers the same fate as Rafa and Nole. No way he goes 3 out of 3 against Peak Roger.

Sadly I think Peak Roger is a thing of the past. Part of the reason Fed is tough for Stan is that low slice of his handcuffs stans big backhand also his flatter forehand has the firepower to rob stan of time.

By slowing all the surfaces it helps Stan. Overall Nole gives him lots of nice clean balls to tee off on and by focusing on stans forehand he lets him get his range

 

[dr325i]

Doesn't matter what you read or what your club members told you. He was ready to go at the US Open. He had 3 weeks off after his first round elimination in Rio and skipping Cincy. He was ready to make a charge for his 13th Slam. Whatever issues he had were mental. He cried buckets after losing his dream of winning Gold. Too bad.

Again, either your comprehension is at very low level or you are blinded by your bias against a player. I suspect it is both, not sure which one overcomes the other.
The club is owned by Novak and people that I talked to were very close to him outside tennis world...

 

[octobrina10]

How to impress opponent before match:

https://twitter.com/pimpmytennis/status/775404791841325057/photo/1

 

[Gary Duane]

I'll take that as a compliment. What I wouldn't do to watch Saturday morning cartoons, sitting cross legged in front of the TV with an oversized cereal bowl in my hands and not a care in the world...sigh.

Ah, Saturday morning used to be like that. School was done, sleep late, binge-watch cartoons.

Different world now...

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Fed lost Slams even during his peak, most notably against Safin - a very similar player to Stan - in 05 in an epic match that i remember well even now. I love both of them but the comparison is not one that can enlighten anyone IMO. odds are that feds win but these sorts of vague arguments don't serve any purpose.

FTR : i know from being a lurker you like Wawrinka and have nothing against him and his achievements, much to the contrary infact. The point still had to be made.

Not slams plural, just Safin in 05. Between 2004 to 2007 that was the only slam outside RG he lost. Basically only Nadal at RG beat peak Fed in 3 finals in a row.

 

[JonnyMac]

I thought it was 9:7 in Murray's favour.

 

[Capulin Zurdo]

 

[JonnyMac]

Such an interesting match. One thing which played heavily on it was the fact that after Djokovic served first the set ended (with an odd-number of game) so Wawrinka served first to kick off the second set. I don't think that is talked about enough in tennis - how much of an advantage it can be once you get on a roll. For sets 2, 3 and 4 Wawrinka served first and kept his nose in front each time. The mental pressure when serving second is a different beast even for the top players imo - quite subtly, but still has an effect on the way they play imo.

Score board pressure ... Hmm ...Good point but Schloko didn't lose because of score board pressure.

He lost because he could not return Stans power body serves.

Best returner in the world - HA !

Return this - CheaterVic

 

[joekapa]

@Hitman , on a more serious side.

Do you think Djokovic's evident weight loss has had an adverse affect ? Do you think this whole "vegan" thing he is going through is a detriment to his game ?

 

[nadal_winning]

That final was the first time I've taken immense pleasure in watching Dj slide all over the nice, abrasive hard-court.

 

[MichaelNadal]

That final was the first time I've taken immense pleasure in watching Dj slide all over the nice, abrasive hard-court.

Decline gets em all.

 

[Sentinel]

Decline gets em all.

Why couldn't he have declined a bit earlier when facing Fedr in those WO and USO finals ?

 

[MichaelNadal]

Why couldn't he have declined a bit earlier when facing Fedr in those WO and USO finals ?

It took long enough didn't it

 

[movdqa]

How to impress opponent before match:

https://twitter.com/pimpmytennis/status/775404791841325057/photo/1

Those knee circles are new to me. I've never seen that exercise or stretch before. The kid in the middle looked a little confused.

 

[junior74]

The mental strength of Stan is incredible. It's a good match-up for him, and Djokovic didn't alter a losing strategy. It was always a matter of how strong his defence was - and that's it. In rallies, he was on the backfoot and Stan got a lot to work with in his hitting zone. Also, with Stan there is no difference if you hit to the backhand or the forehand. . . Fed's diversity is difficult for Stan, who doesn't move that well forwards and doesn't hit that good on lower balls in the forecourt - something Djokovic should have tried to exploit. Djokovic only had one mode in this final.

 

[sliceroni]

Screw these MTO momentum breakers. Just take a beat down like a man. Federer did in 2008, barely past his peak took a beating in FO final against Nadal. If the guy is too good just accept it. Nadal realized he was getting severely outplayed in AO 14, knew Stan is a mentally streaky player and got a set from his MTO. Nole not so lucky as all he got was a game and almost a break.

 

[JonnyMac]

I thought it was 9:7 in Murray's favour.

Yep that's why Stans better than Bin Man Murray ..

 

[ABCD]

The mental strength of Stan is incredible. It's a good match-up for him, because Djokovic didn't alter a losing strategy. It was always a matter of how strong his defence was - and that's it. In rallies, he was on the backfoot and Stan got a lot to work with in his hitting zone. Also, with Stan there is no difference if you hit to the backhand or the forehand. . . Fed's diversity is difficult for Stan, who doesn't move that well forwards and doesn't hit that good on lower balls in the forecourt - something Djokovic should have tried to exploit. Djokovic only had one mode in this final.

For me, Djokovic tried to be aggressive, but would make UE at those moments. He would go to the net after not so good approach shots (sitting duck). Djokovic also had major problems with Wawrinka's slice. I don't think that Djokovic's tactic was wrong, but he didn't have the capacity for good execution. Djokovic has a lot of room for improvement when playing Wawrinka. He and his team should study very carefully pattern of play and causes of this defeat. Having said all that, Wawrinka's movement was incredible (which I didn't expect) and I would put it on par with movement Nadal displayed in RG2013 SF.

 

[JonnyMac]

@Hitman , on a more serious side.

Do you think Djokovic's evident weight loss has had an adverse affect ? Do you think this whole "vegan" thing he is going through is a detriment to his game ?

The boy has issues.. Trouble at home.

You think the mental side of things is less than the physical ?

You think the physical has no bearing on the mental ??

 

[junior74]

For me, Djokovic tried to be aggressive, but would make UE at those moments. He would go to the net after not so good approach shots (sitting duck). Djokovic also had major problems with Wawrinka's slice. I don't think that Djokovic's tactic was wrong, but he didn't have the capacity for good execution. Djokovic has a lot of room for improvement when playing Wawrinka. He and his team should study very carefully pattern of play and causes of this defeat. Having said all that, Wawrinka's movement was incredible (which I didn't expect) and I would put it on par with movement Nadal displayed in RG2013 SF.

He tried to fight fire with fire. Didn't take Guru's overstated lessons on junkballing seriously

Djokovic usually goes to the net like Nadal; when the other guy is more or less outplayed. He should not come in when the pressure is on him.

 

[ABCD]

He tried to fight fire with fire. Didn't take Guru's overstated lessons on junkballing seriously

Djokovic usually goes to the net like Nadal; when the other guy is more or less outplayed. He should not come in when the pressure is on him.

Djokovic/his team is pretty good in figuring out somebody's game. However, I think that Djokovic has problems with Wawrinka as the level his game fluctuates a lot. After RG2015 loss, Djokovic beat him 2 times relatively easily when Wawrinka would spray a lot of UEs. However, in this final such UEs didn't come. The best theoretical tactic against Stanimal would be changing of rhythm/junkballing, but I am not sure whether Djokovic can execute sufficiently well such strategy. Now it is the time for Becker and Vajda to earn their salaries.

 

[junior74]

Djokovic/his team is pretty good in figuring out somebody's game. However, I think that Djokovic has problems with Wawrinka as the level his game fluctuates a lot. After RG2015 loss, Djokovic beat him 2 times relatively easily when Wawrinka would spray a lot of UEs. However, in this final such UEs didn't come. The best theoretical tactic against Stanimal would be changing of rhythm/junkballing, but I am not sure whether Djokovic can execute sufficiently well such strategy. Now it is the time for Becker and Vajda to earn their salaries.

Djokovic is the most complete player ever

- should be able to employ any tactic

 

[ABCD]

Djokovic is the most complete player ever

- should be able to employ any tactic

You are right. He probably should test it in less important match.

 

[heninfan99]

awesome picture & collage!

 

[The Green Mile]

Well done Stan. An AO, FO and USO title. Who would have thought. Certainly a big match player.

 

[racquetreligion]

They were bleeding, you must have not been looking when they showed it. But the second MTO he was clearly bleeding through the bandages they had put on earlier.

whats a little blood for a title wheres the warrior spirit? he ran as good as any match final played

 

[Hitman's Gurl]

I'm OK. And thank you for being so sweet to me. I hope you enjoy the highlights, there were quite a few of them.

Am I embarassing you? Is it against the rules to be your gurl here?

I did see the highlights, and you are right. Wonderful final.

 

[Noveson]

whats a little blood for a title wheres the warrior spirit? he ran as good as any match final played

This board is so goddamn annoying. Not everyone has an agenda, I never said anything regarding how well he played. The guy I replied to specifically said there was no blood, there clearly was, that's all I was replying to.

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

This sounds like a better pattern to me.

AO 2014 – Beat a slam winner in quarters, a slam finalist in semi, a world number 1 in the final

RG2015 - Beat a slam winner in quarters, a slam finalist in semi, a world number 1 in the final

USO2016 - Beat a slam winner in quarters, a slam finalist in semi, a world number 1 in the final

 

[zvelf]

Sorry, but if a player cheats 9/10 times, he's a cheater. Just like he's proving now, fake MTO. Pathetic cheater.

I posted 3 times when Djokovic showed strong sportsmanship contrary to your claims that they even exist. Now show me 27 instances of him cheating.

 

[fednad]

I posted 3 times when Djokovic showed strong sportsmanship contrary to your claims that they even exist. Now show me 27 instances of him cheating.

One shrewd timely cheating that can/may possibly alter the result of a major final is enough to counter 1000 instances of sportsmanship shown at "benign" times in career - for example when, say, you are 2-2 and 15-15 in first set etc etc.
You shall not ask for 27 instances of cheating. Rather, you need to find 997 more instances of sportsmanship.

 

[Tennisanity]

I posted 3 times when Djokovic showed strong sportsmanship contrary to your claims that they even exist. Now show me 27 instances of him cheating.

Here is a subset, you're welcome to find specific examples in numerous other threads.

1)On field coaching
2)Time wasting
3)Fake MTOs
4)Ballboy abuse
5)Swearing at crowds in alien languages
6)Pointing to wrong ballmarks
7)Pretending to challenge to hinder opponent
8)Grunting louder on big points
9)Bouncing balL 5000 times on big points
10)faking injuries

 

[zvelf]

Here is a subset, you're welcome to find specific examples in numerous other threads.

1)On field coaching
2)Time wasting
3)Fake MTOs
4)Ballboy abuse
5)Swearing at crowds in alien languages
6)Pointing to wrong ballmarks
7)Pretending to challenge to hinder opponent
8)Grunting louder on big points
9)Bouncing balL 5000 times on big points
10)faking injuries

Most of those things aren't cheating, so since you can't tell the difference, that makes sense why you accuse Novak of cheating in 90% of his matches.

 

[Tennisanity]

Most of those things aren't cheating, so since you can't tell the difference, that makes sense why you accuse Novak of cheating in 90% of his matches.

Semantics. It's bad behaviour. Bottom line is his true nature is a jerk.

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

Such an interesting match. One thing which played heavily on it was the fact that after Djokovic served first the set ended (with an odd-number of game) so Wawrinka served first to kick off the second set. I don't think that is talked about enough in tennis - how much of an advantage it can be once you get on a roll. For sets 2, 3 and 4 Wawrinka served first and kept his nose in front each time. The mental pressure when serving second is a different beast even for the top players imo - quite subtly, but still has an effect on the way they play imo.

Norman has to have stressed how important this can be...

 

[Deleted member 77403]

Am I embarassing you? Is it against the rules to be your gurl here?

I did see the highlights, and you are right. Wonderful final.

I won't tell anyone if you won't. It's OK.

Glad you enjoyed it, for me after RG for Novak everything he wins from here on is a bonus. He could retire today and I will be content with everything he has accomplished. He had a dream 18 months and that is when he truly became Earth's Mightiest Warrior.

 

[kishnabe]

Good Highlights:

 

[intrepidish]

Ahhh, Novak hater. No problems....

Let me see. Nadal won his first slam final at RG 05. Nadal won his second slam final at RG 06. Nadal LOST his third slam final at Wimbledon 06 to...let me check Wikipedia since I wasn't born....oh, look! It says Federer!

I am not discussing who dominated who in slams, I am stating that the reason why Nadal or Djokovic did not win their first three slam finals like Stan is because they ran into peak Federer. Now, tell me that isn't true...because surely at least you must have been alive to have seen it, right?

I am actually defending Nadal, Federer and Djokovic. A lot has been made about Wawrinka winning his first three slam finals, but if he faced peak Federer I highly doubt he puts together a perfect winning streak in slam finals that is superior to Rafole.

I don't think you understood what I wrote. Nadal lost a final to Federer, a truly great player whom he beat more often than not. The point I was making is that it wasn't usually peak Federer breaking a Nadal streak but rather the other way around so to phrase it as you did is a bit odd.

And either way both of those guys yank Stan around the court at their best.

Stan was fortunate to be playing his best in slams at a time when neither Rafa nor Roger was playing his best. Djokovic, as great as he is, gives Stan a much better toehold (pun intended ) on any match.

Ain't it great to be attacked for being fair, then told you were probably born last year? This place never ceases to amaze me.

That's not what happened so maybe try reading next time.

 

[Mike Sams]

 

[Big_Dangerous]

Man I forgot how long ago that Wii tennis was super popular. It's a shame they didn't do more with it. Doubles only, and 3 games only format. Lame. I remember it got old pretty fast lol.

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

Murray fans must thank Sam Querrey or else he wouldn't even be the 4th highest slam winner in this era. Big 4 LOL.

Idiotic post considering Djokovic never won a set against Murray on grass, 2 matches and 2 losses in straights.
But this is TTW for you, hated player lose every hypothetical matches.

 

[gn]

I liked the storyline leading to that match. Shawn mimicking undertaker

Here's another one. Whatcha gonna do brother?

http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/how-...ed-to-one-of-wrestlings-most-bizarre-matches/

 

[gn]

@Hitman: What's going on here?

 

[MichaelNadal]

I liked the storyline leading to that match. Shawn mimicking undertaker

Here's another one. Whatcha gonna do brother?

http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/how-...ed-to-one-of-wrestlings-most-bizarre-matches/

The most overrated wrestler of all time

 

[Poisoned Slice]

The most overrated wrestler of all time

Shawn Michaels? Absolutely.

 

[Murrayfan31]

Stan is the man. What can I say? Still can't believe Djokovic hasn't found an answer yet.