Embracing at net?

captainbryce

Hall of Fame
Why does it seem like when most ATP matches end, it looks like this:

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JO-2016-Andy-Murray-realise-le-double-en-simple.jpg

bros.jpg

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But most WTA matches look like they end this way:

miami-2016-simona-halep-va-evolua-si-in-proba-de-dublu-primele-adversare-sunt-errani-si-navarro.jpg

skysports-halep-garcia-wtafinals-singapore-tennis_4136191.jpg

VLBLOT_1104889.jpg


Why do the male pros seem more affectionate with each other than the female pros?
 

Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
It's been researched, and it's true that across different sports male competitors hug/touch more, spend more time, smile more etc. after a match.
Some quasi-evolutionary explanations have been given, but those are obviously hard to test accurately.
 
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Zeref

Professional
Djokovic and Murray resisting very hard to not kiss each other. :D
 
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Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Women don't like being showed up by other women. They don't wear makeup for men. Studies have been done.
Similarly, the men on tour are forced to get along by virtue of having to practice together a lot more of than the women do. This is because men have to hit with other tour players to get proper level practice - few, if any coaches suffice. The women by contrast can hit with almost any male ex-college player and get a hitting level better than any opponent so they hit with other players much, much less - many of them not at all. Over time this has an effect on how much they know and get along with their peers (and it is also why the tactical aspect of women's tennis is generally so much poorer than men's - they don't hit with a range of opponents which force them to be as adept at in-match problem-solving).

The men, simply, are forced to get along if they want to succeed so there's far more genuine respect and friendship between them. Hence the end of match embraces.
 
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TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
I think it may be evolutionary. If I had to guess, guys are used to competition. They fight for girls, and are taught from a young age to do so. Girls are more used to cooperating to reach a goal rather than fight, so their competitions are more personal to them.

Since guys have had so much training with losing and winning, they don't associate the competition with their competitor, but women do. This leads to normative relations once the competition is over for the guys, but women continue to see the other women as rivals.
 

Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
It's been researched, and it's true that across different sports male competitors hug/touch more, spend more time, smile more etc. after a match.
Some quasi-evolutionary explanations have been given, but those are obviously hard to test accurately.

Found an article describing the research, here's an excerpt:

Reuters Health said:
In each sport, male players spent more time physically touching each other after the match than female players did. Total duration of contact was usually only a few seconds, so the difference between male and female player contact was small, but significant, the authors write in Current Biology.

In tennis, all players traditionally shake hands after a match, but in some cases they make additional contact, with the winner touching the loser with one arm or vice versa, or with both players embracing. This additional contact was more common in men’s tennis.

Other studies have found that in daily life, female-female touching is as frequent or more frequent than male-male touching, so these sports-specific results are surprising, the authors write.

“What’s so incredible to me is social scientists think of women as the more communal, interconnected, caring, emotional sex,” said coauthor Joyce Benenson of Emanuel College and Harvard University. But women may have a harder time reconciling after conflicts – at least, conflict in sport.

“In some female tennis matches they really hug and they like each other, but for the most part they don’t feel that positively,” she said.

In her work as a developmental psychologist, Benenson noticed that boys spend more time in competition with each other than girls do.“I started thinking about it and got interested in primatology,” Benenson told Reuters Health by phone.

Socially, female primates tend to gather in groups and males are more solitary, which is reversed in humans, she said.

“Humans are one of the only species that engages in intergroup lethal warfare, and that’s mostly men,” Benenson noted.

She added that intergroup warfare requires cooperation, which may explain why men are able to switch from conflict during a game back to cooperation afterward, she said. Female chimpanzees and human women more often are not able to reconcile after a conflict and just “give up and leave,” she said.
 

TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
I think it may be evolutionary. If I had to guess, guys are used to competition. They fight for girls, and are taught from a young age to do so. Girls are more used to cooperating to reach a goal rather than fight, so their competitions are more personal to them.

Since guys have had so much training with losing and winning, they don't associate the competition with their competitor, but women do. This leads to normative relations once the competition is over for the guys, but women continue to see the other women as rivals.

Found an article describing the research, here's an excerpt:

Your research is exactly what I suspected! I'm pretty good at this whole "sociology" stuff! Maybe I should get a degree in it...
 

Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
Your research is exactly what I suspected! I'm pretty good at this whole "sociology" stuff! Maybe I should get a degree in it...

Yes, I think your explanation looks very reasonable:)

as I said in #4 though, it's ultimately hard to truly test those kinds of explanations. As an example, it could also be something that is learned culturally (boys being taught more often to compete hard and reconcile).
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Why does it seem like when most ATP matches end, it looks like this:

6hD3-fxzyxmu8190312.jpg

JO-2016-Andy-Murray-realise-le-double-en-simple.jpg

bros.jpg

2250856-46915919-640-360.jpg


But most WTA matches look like they end this way:

miami-2016-simona-halep-va-evolua-si-in-proba-de-dublu-primele-adversare-sunt-errani-si-navarro.jpg

skysports-halep-garcia-wtafinals-singapore-tennis_4136191.jpg

VLBLOT_1104889.jpg


Why do the male pros seem more affectionate with each other than the female pros?

More spirit of camaraderie amongst the guys. The women all hate each other! :cool:
 

Comb Over Champion

Hall of Fame
Simply put, sports are a masculine endeavor. Women that do sports are doing something which is in contradiction to their nature, so doing so requires conscious overcompensation.

This is a simplification, but in general terms I believe it's right.

It can also be extended to other competitive fields, including the workplace.
 

Comb Over Champion

Hall of Fame
Some people foolishly claim that if women were in charge of the world there wouldn't be any wars. I respectfully disagree. I'm half joking here, though. :D

But I think we can explain this without sexism, just by natural selection. There is a resistance to accept women into some fields which have been traditionally male-dominated. Since for a woman it is tougher to succeed in those areas, only the ones who are extra tough make it. Just a theory.
 
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B

BrokenGears

Guest
I'm telling you, all male tennis players are secretly gay AF
 

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
I've never seen Laver, Rosewall,Connors, Borg, McEnroe,Lendl, Wilander hug another player after an epic match. Connors Krickstein? Chang Lendl? Borg McEnroe? Just a firm handshake and maybe a 'nice match' being said was all that happened. Guess male players today are just more sensitive to each other's feelings. It's one of those things they gradually started(like players toweling off) that I guess fans think was always the norm.

I think the first 'hug' in a major final with male players was Becker Edberg 1990 Wimbledon. edberg looked a little surprised when Becker did that. Commentators as well. There were even questions in the press conference to Becker about it because it was so noteworthy.

Someone like Navratilova was way more likely to comfort her opponent after a loss in the 80s than pretty much any male player back then.
 
B

BrokenGears

Guest
I've never seen Laver, Rosewall,Connors, Borg, McEnroe,Lendl, Wilander hug another player after an epic match. Connors Krickstein? Chang Lendl? Borg McEnroe? Just a firm handshake and maybe a 'nice match' being said was all that happened. Guess male players today are just more sensitive to each other's feelings. It's one of those things they gradually started(like players toweling off) that I guess fans think was always the norm.

I think the first 'hug' in a major final with male players was Becker Edberg 1990 Wimbledon. edberg looked a little surprised when Becker did that. Commentators as well. There were even questions in the press conference to Becker about it because it was so noteworthy.

Someone like Navratilova was way more likely to comfort her opponent after a loss in the 80s than pretty much any male player back then.

Evolution at its finest
 

Legend of Borg

G.O.A.T.
is it possible to have a "female mind" while being a guy?

i've always struggled immensely with being friends with someone and having to compete against them

the two have always seemed mutually exclusive to me and caused me great conflict, this is one reason i can't play against close friends in tennis and other competitive endeavours

i'd rather be on the same team than against them
 

Legend of Borg

G.O.A.T.
Yes, I think your explanation looks very reasonable:)

as I said in #4 though, it's ultimately hard to truly test those kinds of explanations. As an example, it could also be something that is learned culturally (boys being taught more often to compete hard and reconcile).

the answer is always in the middle when it comes to nature/nurture IMO
 

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
is it possible to have a "female mind" while being a guy?

i've always struggled immensely with being friends with someone and having to compete against them

the two have always seemed mutually exclusive to me and caused me great conflict, this is one reason i can't play against close friends in tennis and other competitive endeavours

i'd rather be on the same team than against them
Odd, my partners all seemed to mention playing doubles with me was like playing three against one. Frenemies
 

Legend of Borg

G.O.A.T.
Odd, my partners all seemed to mention playing doubles with me was like playing three against one. Frenemies

it depends on the person but generally it's super hard for me to be chatty and casual with someone after a super competitive singles match

i see guys do it all the time but i have no idea how they manage

unfortunately i can relate more to the WTA's distancing rather than the ATP's close bonding
 

Comb Over Champion

Hall of Fame
is it possible to have a "female mind" while being a guy?

i've always struggled immensely with being friends with someone and having to compete against them

the two have always seemed mutually exclusive to me and caused me great conflict, this is one reason i can't play against close friends in tennis and other competitive endeavours

i'd rather be on the same team than against them
I'm not sure not feeling comfortable beating someone at a sport is a "fememine" trait, to be honest. There are women who are extremely competitive, and some which aren't. And the same for guys. It is more of a personality trait that cuts across genders equally.

But maybe women have more trouble staying friends with people who beat them (or whom they beat) at sports regularly. Is there a female equivalent of the Fedal bromance? :D
 

Legend of Borg

G.O.A.T.
I'm not sure not feeling comfortable beating someone at a sport is a "fememine" trait, to be honest. There are women who are extremely competitive, and some which aren't. And the same for guys. It is more of a personality trait that cuts across genders equally.

But maybe women have more trouble staying friends with people who beat them (or whom they beat) at sports regularly. Is there a female equivalent of the Fedal bromance? :D

fair enough

reading most of these responses here makes me think i'm supposed to be in a woman's body... yikes, not good
 

skip1969

G.O.A.T.
is it possible to have a "female mind" while being a guy?

i've always struggled immensely with being friends with someone and having to compete against them

the two have always seemed mutually exclusive to me and caused me great conflict, this is one reason i can't play against close friends in tennis and other competitive endeavours

i'd rather be on the same team than against them
I'm even odder. I'm not touchy feely so I'm not up for hugging after a match, per se. But then, I never feel any hostility at all towards my opponent, friend or not. I think it's cos I'm not nearly competitive enough. So a cold handshake wouldn't work for me, either. ;)
 

Alba Barragan

Professional
I don't know what kind of matches you're watching, but I've seen just as many hugs between WTA players as I've seen in the ATP:
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This was iconic as well, a very long hug and later they put their chairs together while waiting for the trophy presentation:
26SSLIVE-STEPHENSANDKEYS

Even more so, in WTA I see plenty of kisses after matches. They may be a little less notorious than hugs, but it also represents friendliness and a good spirit among the players:
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Yes, I've also seen some cold handshakes and lack of sportsmanship, but not at a higher rate than in the ATP. The only difference is the media likes to report such incidents more, there seems to be something 'attractive' in portraying women as sore losers or with hatred between them.
 
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Zeref

Professional
Some people foolishly claim that if women were in charge of the world there wouldn't be any wars. I respectfully disagree. I'm half joking here, though. :D

But I think we can explain this without sexism, just by natural selection. There is a resistance to accept women into some fields which have been traditionally male-dominated. Since for a woman it is tougher to succeed in those areas, only the ones who are extra tough make it. Just a theory.
Beware Thundervolley is coming for you
 

smoledman

G.O.A.T.
I prefer the days when Jimmy Connors would be throwing eye daggers at the opponent coming to shake hands at the net. Now they're all 'friends'.
 
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